brand new P71 tq converter

[4play]

i can buy a brand new P71 torque converter from ford for 350 bucks, is this a good price? also is it really worth switching to a higher stall one? especially on a completely stock Marauder. are all P71's 3000 stall? because the parts guy could not tell me what the stall was, just that's it's a tq converter for a police interceptor. will I need a tune if i install a 3000 converter or will it shift the same?

[MM_BKK]

That converter is not going to give you 3000 stall speed so you'll be wasting $350 bucks plus labor to have it put in then you'll have to spend more money to get the right one and more on labor to have it done again.

As far as the tune, you don't really have to get it retuned just for converter change. The trans will still shift at the same points as stock but your shift will feel a little softer at part-throttle driving.

[4play]

i thought PI converters were 3000?

[imorb1994]

PI= Precision Industries in torque converter lingo
http://www.converter.com/

[offroadkarter]

LOL!!!!!


Funny thread is funny

[Black_Out]

Marauder and P71 TC's are the same are they not? just as long as it's the same year, i.e. 03 p71 03 MM

And yes, it's is totally worth it to upgrade to a higher stall converter while you're in there. You will notice a big difference in how responsive the car will be. Some sites advertise up to .4 sec off 1/4 mile times depending on which one you get.

[imorb1994]

Marauder and P71 TC's are the same are they not? just as long as it's the same year, i.e. 03 p71 03 MM

And yes, it's is totally worth it to upgrade to a higher stall converter while you're in there. You will notice a big difference in how responsive the car will be. Some sites advertise up to .4 sec off 1/4 mile times depending on which one you get.
They are the same size wise. But performance wise they are not. Marauder stall somewhere in 2000-2300rpm range and P71 stall around 1000-1500.
Some body corerect me if im wrong, Please.

[ImpalaSlayer]

i have a 3500 and its just a little too much IMO for the street. if i were to do it again id go with a 3k.

[offroadkarter]

They are the same size wise. But performance wise they are not. Marauder stall somewhere in 2000-2300rpm range and P71 stall around 1000-1500.
Some body corerect me if im wrong, Please.


We need drock96 in this thread... someone that can get on CVN PM Drock96marquis he will clear this up

[imorb1994]

We need drock96 in this thread... someone that can get on CVN PM Drock96marquis he will clear this up
Does he not come on here anymore.

[Got_1]

i have a 3500 and its just a little too much IMO for the street. if i were to do it again id go with a 3k.

what do you mean by too much? i've been thinking about a 3500 converter but i'm still unsure.

[dohc324ci]

i have a 3500 and its just a little too much IMO for the street. if i were to do it again id go with a 3k.

That's why Rich stayed 2800k stall; I may do the same since Ive got an 03 (2400). I am eying a 4R75W from a member here with 25k miles on it. I may do this plus the 2800rmp TC.

[4play]

well why is it that I hear people installing police Torque converters for the higher stall?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

No no no no. PI is not police interceptor. People are NOT installing police torque converters. As said above, PI is PRECISION ENGINEERING. People are installing precision engineering torque convertors. Not ford oem police intorceptor torque converters

[DTUB]

Or maybe it's Precision Industries...

[4play]

oh. ok...... so a police interceptor tq converter would be a major downgrade lol maybe i'll pass on that one.

[Darrin]

They are the same size wise. But performance wise they are not. Marauder stall somewhere in 2000-2300rpm range and P71 stall around 1000-1500.
Some body corerect me if im wrong, Please.

That is not correct.

This probably needs to be made a sticky somehow because the misinformation on the subject doesn't want to seem to die.

All of the 11.25in torque converters from Ford have exactly the same internal components that dictate stall. Which means that no matter whether you get an 11.25in converter from any year Mark VIII, any 96 or newer Mustang GT, either year Marauder or any year P71 or 'Sport" Vic that came equipped with that size converter then it will stall the same. Which, on these cars here, these 11.25in converters will stall up to 2,750rpm according to factory specs.

The stall is not the difference in those converters and you particularly wouldn't want to use any of the earlier ones. In 04 however there were some changes made that affect durability of the converter for the better. Preference would be a converter out of an 04 Marauder. There may be crossover into the newer Vics on those internal changes, but I honestly haven't looked into it.

But, the stall is still the same.

Now, if one did happen to purchase a 2,800rpm converter and it did happen to increase performance in a way that would indicate a higher than stock stall then that pretty much means that the converter is not actually a 2,800 stall. I just about flat guarantee you that if you put a transbrake to it that it would stall higher than advertised 2,800.

If someone wants to bring me a car with a stock converter then I will temporarily install a transbrake into it and show the true stall on that converter. Same goes for anyone with their aftermarket converter. I would love that. It would help out discussions like this immensely.

Darrin

[imorb1994]

That is not correct.

This probably needs to be mad a sticky somehow because the misinformation on the subject doesn't want to seem to die.

All of the 11.25in torque converters from Ford have exactly the same internal components that dictate stall. Which means that no matter whether you get an 11.25in converter from any year Mark VIII, any 96 or newer Mustang GT, either year Marauder or any year P71 or 'Sport" Vic that came equipped with that size converter then it will stall the same.

The stall is not the difference in those converters and you particularly wouldn't want to use any of the earlier ones. In 04 however there were some changes made that affect durability of the converter for the better. Preference would be a converter out of an 04 Marauder. There may be crossover into the newer Vics on those internal changes, but I honestly haven't looked into it.

But, the stall is still the same.

Darrin
Thanks for that info. But curious, Ford had stated that the Marauder was equiped with a higher stall converter? Do you believe it was just marketing?

[Darrin]

Thanks for that info. But curious, Ford had stated that the Marauder was equiped with a higher stall converter? Do you believe it was just marketing?


I wasn't aware that Ford officially said that these were higher stall than in say the CVPI or Mustang GT. Can you find where they actually did?

Perhaps it was marketing if they just said higher stall because both the Mustang GT and the CVPI vehicles would also have a 'higher stall' than the standard Mustang or Crown Vic.

Also I would love to know where the talk about a supposed different stall speed between the 03 and 04 marauders came from. Perhaps if we can determine the origin of these things then we can start to get a handle on correcting the info out there.

Dunno...

Darrin

[imorb1994]

It was listed in the brochures that were available at the dealers. And was also listed in a couple of the marketing videos.


The electonically controlled four-speed automatic uses a reinforced 11.25- inch high stall-speed torque converter with a heavy-duty 1-inch, one way clutch. A high speed lets the engine revs rise into the peak power band before torque is transmitted to the wheels by a 3.55:1 limited slip axle.

From the brochure.

[Darrin]

Yes, that states exactly the truth and nothing but the truth. These cars do indeed have the 11.25in converter which is one of Ford's high stall converters.

However, it doesn't say that they have a higher stall than any of the other 11.25in converters they build. As a matter of fact it doesn't say that it has a higher stall than any other converter at all. It just states that it has the 11.25in high stall speed converter.

That is marketing at work right there. Those few words steered perception a little didn't they?

Now, if you find something that says these have a higher stall than any of the other 11.25in converters they build then we will have the makings of a good discussion.

Also, the reinforced part is worthy of discussion. The Marauder converters are indeed that. They were furnace brazed and in 04 the thrust washer was replaced with a thrust bearing making them even more 'reinforced'.

Darrin

[imorb1994]

I guess marketing did its job then:lol:

Making so many people believe that the marauder converter is better than say a same year P71 converter.

[Darrin]

I guess marketing did its job then:lol:

Making so many people believe that the marauder converter is better than say a same year P71 converter.

No, no, no... LOL

The Marauder converter is actually a better converter than the same year P71 converter. As we discussed, it has furnace brazing and on the 04 it has a thrust bearing instead of a thrust washer. Those things make them better and make the 04 the converter of choice here.

The important thing as it relates to this discussion is that the Marauder converter doesn't have a higher stall speed than any of the rest of the 11.25in converters.

Darrin

[imorb1994]

No, no, no... LOL

The Marauder converter is actually a better converter than the same year P71 converter. As we discussed, it has furnace brazing and on the 04 it has a thrust bearing instead of a thrust washer. Those things make them better and make the 04 the converter of choice here.

The important thing as it relates to this discussion is that the Marauder converter doesn't have a higher stall speed than any of the rest of the 11.25in converters.

Darrin

Sorry meant stall wise

[babbage]

Or maybe it's Precision Industries...


lol - this gets my vote. :D PI = Precision Industries.

If people have a regular Ford Vic or Grand Marquis it came from the factory with a 12" converter -- for those people only a P71 (police TC) is an upgrade as it's 11.25" inches. A factory TC in an MM is 11.25 inches. Same exact one as the police vehicles.

A P71 TC stalls at about 2100.
The same converter in a MM would stall higher because the MM has more Tq and HP. Other than that they are exactly the same. Same with the mufflers. Ford did not go out and make all of this stuff special for our 2 year car run. In 04 Ford make the converters slightly better as they did the 4R70 (4R75)

[JUST 1BULLITT]

Thanks Darrin!
Damn, I've learned more here on this thread about our unique cars AND tc's etc. than I've learned in a long time! :bows: :beer: Danville, IN...home of the Mayberry Cafe! GREAT town!! been there a few times on the square off Rte 36! Thanks again Darrin...IF I ever need trans work I think it'll be WORTH the trip to bring my business your way! :beer:John "J1B"

No, no, no... LOL

The Marauder converter is actually a better converter than the same year P71 converter. As we discussed, it has furnace brazing and on the 04 it has a thrust bearing instead of a thrust washer. Those things make them better and make the 04 the converter of choice here.

The important thing as it relates to this discussion is that the Marauder converter doesn't have a higher stall speed than any of the rest of the 11.25in converters.

Darrin

[Darrin]

I am looking into the idea that the CVPI might have the same converter as the Marauder in 04. That may actually be the case. I will try and find out for sure tomorrow, but right now it looks plausible and might carry over to the 4.6l Mustangs in 04 as well.

I know Mayberry well.

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it very much.
Darrin

[JUST 1BULLITT]

Hey Darrin,
you're MOST welcome! That's a very cool town for sure...I used to go out of my way just to cruise that totally 'OLD SCHOOL' downtown square and of course to have some of that Mayberry Cafe Pie and coffee even if I wasn't hungry! :lol: (Of course, looking out that window at the Old Black & White Ford Squad Car is always COOL too!!) I'll DEFINITELY have to drop you a line and meet up w/ ya on my next run between Indy and KC! :D

[Darrin]

Hey Darrin,
you're MOST welcome! That's a very cool town for sure...I used to go out of my way just to cruise that totally 'OLD SCHOOL' downtown square and of course to have some of that Mayberry Cafe Pie and coffee even if I wasn't hungry! :lol: (Of course, looking out that window at the Old Black & White Ford Squad Car is always COOL too!!) I'll DEFINITELY have to drop you a line and meet up w/ ya on my next run between Indy and KC! :D


Definitely get ahold of me. I haven't been to Mayberrry for lunch in a good long while now.

Darrin

[Darrin]

Ok, so I did verify that the converter used in the 04 Marauder was also used in 04 and newer police versions of the CV , maybe some of the 04 and newer GM's and Town Cars and definitely in the 04 4.6l Mustangs. The 03 Marauder converter was it's own though. Between the two you would definitely want the 04 version.

Darrin