Start up Squeal/Scream.

[Vortech347]

I've gota figure out what this it. Its a horrible noise. When I start the car as ignition occurs and it revs up before going to idle it makes a HORRIBLE loud ass screatch. Its not the belt, I also changed the tensioner too. I'll get a vid of it posted. Tomorrow I'm going to try it with the belt off to see if its internal or not.

It only does it for the first start of the day. Even in the summer. Winter starts its REALLY loud...

Any idea's would be helpful when I go out to try and tackle this tomorrow....

Whats funny is my 03' did this once it hit 70k but it was a quiet squeal. My 04' is now at 78k, but it SCREAMS.

EDIT:

Video http://youtu.be/mm3ZoAQEnC0

Resolution 3 years later, CHANGE THE DAMN STARTER!!!!!!

[Blackened300a]

I assume you took the belt off and made sure it wasn't a pulley and your power steering fluid was fine? Did you also try turning the wheel back and forth to see if it changes tone to eliminate the pump or rack?
When my intake manifold was loose it made a whistle that would change tone and went away as the car warmed up. Worst case scenario is a dry bearing.

[ctrlraven]

Mines done that for years if it sat for more than a few days at a time.

[Granite]

i get that sound sometimes too, first start of the day sometimes like you said....i have no idea what it is...

[Krytin]

I had it on my Marauder and it was cured w/new belt and ideler/tensioner pulleys

I have it on my daughter's '04 CV LX Sport and the belt & pulleys did not fix it.

I'm thinking the battery is old enough to be loosing it's charge or there is a drain on the battery and the alternator has a heavy load on it during the initial start-up.
Still working on this.

[TAKEDOWN]

I have the same problem. JustBob, started a thread on this and if I remember correctly it's a fragment piece that comes loose from the alternator or something like that. I searched and can't find it, but I'll continue to look!

[CBT]

I have the same problem. JustBob, started a thread on this and if I remember correctly it's a fragment piece that comes loose from the alternator or something like that. I searched and can't find it, but I'll continue to look!
It's in the starter.....

[TAKEDOWN]

^^^ OoPs my Bad! Hopefully JustBob chimes in. ^^^

[johnjamis]

If its a rattling sound it could be your cam chain tensioners. Switching back to the motorcraft oil filter helped my rattle on start up. They say it holds oil in the lines after shut down and this helps get oil to the cam chains on start up. Mine hardly rattles at all now.

[TFB]

I'm thinking the battery is old enough to be loosing it's charge or there is a drain on the battery and the alternator has a heavy load on it during the initial start-up.
Still working on this.
This is as good of a theory as any... You could try charging the battery for a half hour or so before a cold start to see if it's the load of the alternator...

While I've never had a belt noise problem on start up with any 4.6(I've owned five 2v), I do consider the factory belt wrap to leave a bit to be desired, very little of the alt pulley surface has actual contact with the belt...

[Krytin]

This is as good of a theory as any... You could try charging the battery for a half hour or so before a cold start to see if it's the load of the alternator...
That's what I'm going to try next.
While I've never had a belt noise problem on start up with any 4.6(I've owned five 2v), I do consider the factory belt wrap to leave a bit to be desired, very little of the alt pulley surface has actual contact with the belt...
I agree with that.

[Vortech347]

Alright..... Here's what I've done. And this is the result. Its slow going because I have to wait till the next morning to find out if it worked...

I did a start up with the belt off. NO NOISE what so ever. So it is NOT internal nor does it have ANYTHING to do with the timing chains. Did this 2 dif mornings with it below 10* otuside. Perfect smooth startup. Its also NOT the battery.

New belt. New Tensioner. All new idlers.

Here's the noise.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=1728460535614

Right now I am leaning towards the AC compressor. I will know for sure tomorrow morning when I do another start with my stethiscope on it.

My other car did this and its so god damn embarrasing.

[Fourth Horseman]

Matt,

I can't hear that recording, as I don't have a Facebook account (I know, I know...) but my car has been making a squealing noise this past year as well. Mine, however, comes only when it's hot outside and the car is up to temperature, and when at idle. I've replaced the belt tensioner and all three idlers (my car has three due to the Vortech s/c). No joy.

The really aggravating thing is that I'm having so much trouble localizing the sound. When I'm under the hood with the car running and I hear the noise, I'd swear it's coming from wherever my head is pointing. I purchased a mechanic's stethoscope to try and pin point it, but now that winter is here the car's stopped making the noise. *sigh*

So I guess I'll resume the hunt in the spring / early summer. Definitely interested to hear what you come up with on yours, though, as it might be similar. Good luck on hunting it down and killing it.

[Got_1]

off topic

fourth horseman, those rims are badass dude! what kind of tire are you running?

back on track

[Fourth Horseman]

off topic

fourth horseman, those rims are badass dude! what kind of tire are you running?

back on track

Thanks. The tires are Nitto NT555 245/45 up front, 295/45 in back.

[Vortech347]

So 2 Marauders I had did this, and no one here that owns the other 4000 Marauders don't do this in the morning? DAMN IT!!!!! This sucks.

[ImpalaSlayer]

off topic

fourth horseman, those rims are badass dude! what kind of tire are you running?

back on track

i thought the same when i saw em

[Vortech347]

Okay the noise is not specific to our cars either. I think its a 4.6 thing. I was showing homes today and some sellers went to move their expedition. When they started it, it made the EXACT same noise. I asked him if it was the 4.6 or 5.4 and he said 4.6 and the noise always comes in the morning.

so its not a marauder specific issue. I'm gona search around on other boards and see what I find. Still leaking on the AC compy. I'll hopefully have time tomorrow to have my neighbor come start her while i've got a scope on it.

[TFB]

The A/C compressor isn't engaged if the EATC is set to OFF...

[Vortech347]

I tried it with it turned off this morning. Nada... Still made the noise in the video. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get somewhere with an assitant to turn the key.

[TFB]

My bet is still belt slip on the alt pulley due to the charging load...

[MOTOWN]

that sounds like a bad a/c clutch ,or a bad water pump/bearing

[Vortech347]

My bet is still belt slip on the alt pulley due to the charging load...

Its not belt slip.

[Blackened300a]

You try some WD-40 on the idler bearing and then the tensioner pulley bearing? Just a little bit will change the sound and help you narrow it down. Just dont spray the belt!

[johnjamis]

See if this thread will help your problem. Good luck.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53899

[SID210SA]

I tried it with it turned off this morning. Nada... Still made the noise in the video. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get somewhere with an assitant to turn the key.


Whats your email addy for facebook so i can friend you and see your vid. My Marauder has a noise every once in a while on start up....but I had the same noise on my Sentra years ago and it was a 1.6L but on that I found it to be the starter sticking.

[2,4shofast]

Still no luck? My car has always had this and I have never figured it out...Hopefully you figure it out soon bro.:beer:

[ctrlraven]

Its not belt slip.
I thought it might be belt slip also but since it only does it for me after the vehicle has sat more than 2 days. If it's driven daily or started several times a day I don't hear it.

Another weird noise gremlin to track down now for some of us. :lol:

[Vortech347]

You try some WD-40 on the idler bearing and then the tensioner pulley bearing? Just a little bit will change the sound and help you narrow it down. Just dont spray the belt!

As previously mentioned idlers and tensioner are NEW.

[Vortech347]

Whats your email addy for facebook so i can friend you and see your vid. My Marauder has a noise every once in a while on start up....but I had the same noise on my Sentra years ago and it was a 1.6L but on that I found it to be the starter sticking.

I'll change the video to everyone. Should work for everyone now. Watch the vid...

My neighbor wasn't avalible today so the wife is going to help me tonight. I havn't started it yet today.

[TFB]

I'm still betting on the belt/alt... In 44 years of working on my own vehicles(since I was 16), I've rarely seen any other cause for the one/two second squawk when the engine is first started... Bad pulleys, water pump bearings, etc almost always cause a clicking or growling noise...

If you want to find out for sure, disconnect the two wire control plug on the alt, that way it wont be charging so there won't be a load on the belt when the engine first starts...

[Vortech347]

Belt is new with less than 200 miles on it. I'll try unhooking the alt. I didn't have the ability to try and listen tonight as its a downpour outside and the MM doesn't have a garage spot.

[Vortech347]

unplugged the alt. No dif.

It just boggles my mind no one else has come up with a fix for this. Both my MM's have done this so I'm sure quite a few others do too.

[Blackened300a]

I watched the video like 10 times, is it me or does your water pump pulley look like its wobbling during start up? If so, water pump bearing.

[TFB]

Sorry that ain't your problem, but it sure sounds like belt slip when it starts...

Wonder if maybe the tensioner isn't placing enough pressure on the belt???

[Vortech347]

Brand new tensioner. Its got more pressure on it that the worn out stocker I took out.

[Vortech347]

I watched the video like 10 times, is it me or does your water pump pulley look like its wobbling during start up? If so, water pump bearing.

I'll go pull the belt and check it.

[omarauder]

It's in the starter.....


+1 Check your starter motor. Sometimes the gear doesn't disengage quickly enough when the engine fires up. Makes a horrible racket. My brother had this happen on one of his vehicles.

[Blackened300a]

+1 Check your starter motor. Sometimes the gear doesn't disengage quickly enough when the engine fires up. Makes a horrible racket. My brother had this happen on one of his vehicles.

Had that happen on my car as well, but he said that with the belt removed the noise goes away.
The starter also gives a rattle sound instead of a whine or whistle.

[Vortech347]

Had that happen on my car as well, but he said that with the belt removed the noise goes away.
The starter also gives a rattle sound instead of a whine or whistle.

Ha HA! someone read a previous post I made. Thanks. :)

Yes, the sound is non-existant with the belt removed. The water pump pulley's rotation is very smooth and not wabbly at all. There is a mark of paint or something on and and thats why it looks like its wabbling. Also Jasons car makes this same noise and he has an electric one.

The real question at this point. Is it just the A/C clutch/pulley assembly or the compressor itself? I don't think its the compressor because I unplugged it to make sure it wouldn't come on. Noise still remained.

Now I just gota change it out for the extra one I've got laying around in the garage.

[MOTOWN]

Ha HA! someone read a previous post I made. Thanks. :)

Yes, the sound is non-existant with the belt removed. The water pump pulley's rotation is very smooth and not wabbly at all. There is a mark of paint or something on and and thats why it looks like its wabbling. Also Jasons car makes this same noise and he has an electric one.

The real question at this point. Is it just the A/C clutch/pulley assembly or the compressor itself? I don't think its the compressor because I unplugged it to make sure it wouldn't come on. Noise still remained.

Now I just gota change it out for the extra one I've got laying around in the garage.

sounds like you have narrowed it down! , i certainly hope this solves your mystery :confused:

[Vortech347]

I do to, as I know both Scott and Jason have the same noise.

[GetMeMyStogie]

Does the noise return if you blip the throttle to raise the RPMs over 2k or so, right after startup?
I had a squeeling noise a while ago that only occurred above a certain RPM. I suspect it was the water pump bearing, because I sprayed liberal amounts of WD-40 at it, and that caused the noise to change - at first getting worse, but after a week or so the noise went away. Presumably, the water pump bearing is not exactly designed to be lubricated, so I figure it took a while for enough WD-40 to work its way in.

[Paul]

The AC comp pulley has a bearing in it, could be sticking at first startup. Thus the AC comp pulley squeals, or makes the belt squeal, 'cuz it don't want to move until it's forced to. This pulley normally always spins, an electromagnetic clutch makes it transfer power to the compressor when you turn on the AC system.

[Vortech347]

The AC comp pulley has a bearing in it, could be sticking at first startup. Thus the AC comp pulley squeals, or makes the belt squeal, 'cuz it don't want to move until it's forced to. This pulley normally always spins, an electromagnetic clutch makes it transfer power to the compressor when you turn on the AC system.

Yup.

I know for sure the belt isn't slipping. Its the internal bearing.

I ran into a snag though. The 01 Cobra A/C clutch I have won't fit. Part numbers don't match and i'm a little strapped for cash right now so this will have to wait.

[omarauder]

Had that happen on my car as well, but he said that with the belt removed the noise goes away.
The starter also gives a rattle sound instead of a whine or whistle.


OOPs didn't read carefully enough....

[2,4shofast]

Yup.

I know for sure the belt isn't slipping. Its the internal bearing.

I ran into a snag though. The 01 Cobra A/C clutch I have won't fit. Part numbers don't match and i'm a little strapped for cash right now so this will have to wait.

Damn I was hoping for a fix :beer: Oh well, let me know when you try and attack this again. If is on a weekend I will try to stop by and give you a hand bro.

[MOTOWN]

well sounds like you have confirmed the a/c clutch as the problem hope you can fix it soon

[ctrlraven]

I wonder if it makes any difference to spray the ac clutch before starting the vehicle up. I'll be starting mine up tomorrow for the first time in almost 2 weeks. I'm going to shoot it with some WD-40 before I start it up.

[Fourth Horseman]

I've never replaced a clutch/pulley assembly on an a/c compressor. Is it all one unit? Any idea how much it will run me new from my Ford dealership parts counter?

[MOTOWN]

I've never replaced a clutch/pulley assembly on an a/c compressor. Is it all one unit? Any idea how much it will run me new from my Ford dealership parts counter?

not sure what ford gets for one, but rock auto sells a four seasons clutch for $111.79, the system will probably need to be evacuated first, and then r/r the clutch.
yes its one unit

big fun:cool:

[TFB]

not sure what ford gets for one, but rock auto sells a four seasons clutch for $111.79, the system will probably need to be evacuated first, and then r/r the clutch.
yes its one unit

big fun:cool:

Should be no need to evacuate the system to replace just the clutch assly...

[MOTOWN]

Should be no need to evacuate the system to replace just the clutch assly...

yeah thats what i thought but certain cars call for it, not sure if the mm is one of em, i should clarify if he can do it without removing the compressor from the ac line then he will not have to evacuate, some times theres not enough room to get the removal tool in there

[Vortech347]

Well, I put my stethiscope on it while a friend started the car over and over. It'll always make the sound till its warmed up...

Well....

I don't "think" its the AC compressor. I'm seriously f'n baffled. I checked EVERYTHING...We even ADDED a ton of torque to the tensioner just to see. Nope, same noise.

A new AC clutch is cheap directly from Ford, Jason, Scott. You know who to call for our local hook up. If not let me know.

But as of now I can't confirm I found it. :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

[Blackened300a]

Well, I put my stethiscope on it while a friend started the car over and over. It'll always make the sound till its warmed up...

Well....

I don't "think" its the AC compressor. I'm seriously f'n baffled. I checked EVERYTHING...We even ADDED a ton of torque to the tensioner just to see. Nope, same noise.

A new AC clutch is cheap directly from Ford, Jason, Scott. You know who to call for our local hook up. If not let me know.

But as of now I can't confirm I found it. :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

You are sure that its not a power steering pump noise?

[Vortech347]

I checked EVERYTHING...

Every morning now I cringe before I start my car and feel like I'm driving a VW bug. Thanks Ford.

Without pinpointing it, its just throw money at the POS replacing parts... F that.

[ctrlraven]

I know this sounds weird to try but do a quick half crank and let off. Then wait a few seconds and try to crank it fully again. See if that makes any difference.

[Fourth Horseman]

Without pinpointing it, its just throw money at the POS replacing parts... F that.

Yeah, that's basically what I've been doing. :(

[2,4shofast]

Yeah, that's basically what I've been doing. :(


Im with you there, I have gave up. Hoping you or Matt will find out the problem so I can just fix it :beer: I have way too many other issues to fix as it is!:mad2:

[Vortech347]

Scott & Jason, I think we should meet up at a pub and discuss said issues. With beer involved.

[MOTOWN]

wow i thought this would have been fixed today! im surprised its not the a/c clutch

[Fourth Horseman]

Scott & Jason, I think we should meet up at a pub and discuss said issues. With beer involved.

I think this is a most excellent idea. And while we're discussing squeals, you guys can help me to isolate which wires I need for my KB Boost-A-Pump install (thanks Dennis!) :D

Seriously, though, I'm up for brews any time. And I'm buying the first round. :beer:

[Paul]

Could it just be inertia at start-up, getting things moving from a dead stop, and the belt slips a bit? Say, the when the engine fires, the crank rotation quickly speeds up, at a faster rate then all the accessories? Everything is cold, so less friction/grip between the belt and pulley surfaces? Don't they make a belt dressing which helps with the grippyness? (I know, made-up words - sorry)

[ctrlraven]

So I tried and did a quick turn over crank on mine, brought the key back to run position then cranked and the car started right up with no noise but of the sweet exhaust. My cars has been sitting since 11/21. If it sat more than for 2_3 days it always screamed on start up.


Vortech, give this a try and see if it helps.

[babbage]

A new AC clutch is cheap directly from Ford, Jason, Scott. You know who to call for our local hook up. If not let me know.

But as of now I can't confirm I found it. :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

How much is it?

[Vortech347]

I think this is a most excellent idea. And while we're discussing squeals, you guys can help me to isolate which wires I need for my KB Boost-A-Pump install (thanks Dennis!) :D

Seriously, though, I'm up for brews any time. And I'm buying the first round. :beer:

BAP's are cake. Hell you can bring it over here and I'll do it. Just get me an MM wiring diagram.

Raven: I can literally keep starting it and stoping it over and over and it'll make the noise untill its warmed up

[RF Overlord]

Just thinkin' out loud here...you say it's quiet with the belt off, and it's a new belt with new idlers and tensioner...could it be that trick one-way clutch pulley on the alternator?

[Vortech347]

That was one of the first things I thought of as well. But with the stethoscope on it, its quite as can be. My other MM would "spin down" after a rev up that was a horrible noise. This one hasn't started that yet. I do have a sneaking suspicion about something and I'm going to try it tomorrow. I'll let you know.

[freakstatus]

Ok, I'm just going out on a limb. I had the same problem which I posted about a few months back but mine was fixed by replacing the belt. Could it be as simple as a bad new belt?

[2,4shofast]

I think this is a most excellent idea. And while we're discussing squeals, you guys can help me to isolate which wires I need for my KB Boost-A-Pump install (thanks Dennis!) :D

Seriously, though, I'm up for brews any time. And I'm buying the first round. :beer:

You know Im always game for a few cold ones and some car talk...:beer: Maybe we should all bring the laundry list of items we need address/fixed on our MM's so we can get them all sorted out before the Utah Stangs Spring Cruise...even tho Matt never brings his out:bop:

[TAKEDOWN]

Exhaust leak by the manifolds?

[Blackened300a]

Exhaust leak by the manifolds?

He takes the belt off and the noise goes away, so its a accessory. Just the step by step process of elimination.

[babbage]

He takes the belt off and the noise goes away, so its a accessory. Just the step by step process of elimination.
Right and all pulleys and tensioners are new.

So what happened with the new AC clutch assy?

[Ktorres1]

+1 I agree!

[Ktorres1]

+1 I meant on the wheels.

[Vortech347]

I don't have the funds right now... :( it's gona have to wait.

[Krytin]

Here's an update on my '04 CV LX Sport.
It turns out the start-up screach was the starter motor bendix drive/nosecone bearing. Very easy to ID once the car was up on the lift. Rebuilt starter fixed it!
Very odd how sound travels and the noise didn't start until after the engine fired up!
With my hand on the starter I could feel the vibration increase as the engine caught.
This could have done some damage to the flex plate/flywheel gear as the drive remained engaged mommentarily causing the noise as the engine start-up "flare" spun the starter causing the noise.

Go figure!

[MOTOWN]

Here's an update on my '04 CV LX Sport.
It turns out the start-up screach was the starter motor bendix drive/nosecone bearing. Very easy to ID once the car was up on the lift. Rebuilt starter fixed it!
Very odd how sound travels and the noise didn't start until after the engine fired up!
With my hand on the starter I could feel the vibration increase as the engine caught.
This could have done some damage to the flex plate/flywheel gear as the drive remained engaged mommentarily causing the noise as the engine start-up "flare" spun the starter causing the noise.

Go figure!

i get that very same problem, but its only once, or twice every few months eventually ill get a tilton, or powermaster gear reduction starter

[Vortech347]

Anyone else get this yet? Please see the video on the first page.

[cruzer]

After spending a bunch on this problem, I was approached by a new tech at my dealer who told me to pull the Idle Air Unit on the front of the intake unit--clean it with carb cleaner and replace the gasket--he said the gasket is the real problem---bought gasket--the old gasket was hard and glazed with tiny cracks--new is flexible--reassembled---no more noise---gaskets are cheap--give it a try---takes about 10 minutes. Good Luck, Maury

[stevemarauder]

Try replacing the harmonic balancer.

[CBT]

Try replacing the harmonic balancer.

For a squeal on start up? What's to squeal, it's a balancer :confused:

[Marauder Rick]

Hey... i know that sound. That is the exact same sound that you get from a collapsed PCV hose. I would constantly get that same exact sound. but mine remained constant because my hose remained partially collapsed. Just do me a favor, and if it doesnt work then at least you have wasted nothing but time, Vent your valve covers PCV ports and plug/cap your intakes PCV ports. I understand that it doesnt happen with the belt off..... but just try it.

[Vortech347]

Just an FYI. Trying to remedy the problem is now on hold. With warmer temps, 50-60+ the noise goes away.

So damn F'n weird...

I'll clean the IAC and change the gasket. I have an extra in the garage.

[capt512]

Hmm interesting...I have the exact same problem on a 03 300a with 85K I just bought.

[CBT]

Mine makes same noise when it's cold out, don't care.

[Vortech347]

Mine makes same noise when it's cold out, don't care.

I do, something isn't right mechanically and its embarrassing as hell.

[CBT]

I do, something isn't right mechanically and its embarrassing as hell.

I'll give you that, sometimes it's a cringe-worthy screech if there are people nearby. Justbob heard it in Louisville last year (not this time because it was warm) and said it's in the starter. Pieces of magnet or something. PM him, he may be able to help, he fixed his.

[cruzer]

I swear folks, I think you ought to try this ------it worked perfectly for me--cost--under $10---had the squeal at lower temps---usually on original start in the morning. Good luck, Maury

[Vortech347]

I swear folks, I think you ought to try this ------it worked perfectly for me--cost--under $10---had the squeal at lower temps---usually on original start in the morning. Good luck, Maury

Did that yesterday doing the battery. It was cold (40's) and raining which SUCKED because a Marauder is f'n heavy to push up an incline into a garage. But I cleaned the IAC and replaced the gasket.

Once the car was fixed and started it made the noise.

Its not starter related. If the belt is off the car it WILL NOT make the noise.

[CBT]

Did that yesterday doing the battery. It was cold (40's) and raining which SUCKED because a Marauder is f'n heavy to push up an incline into a garage. But I cleaned the IAC and replaced the gasket.

Once the car was fixed and started it made the noise.

Its not starter related. If the belt is off the car it WILL NOT make the noise.
Then it has to be one of your pulleys. An old bushing that shrinks due to cold and squals, but once it heats up and expands does not squal. I have pics of the two of mine I changed under some (i'm sure) dumbass thread I started about squalling pulleys.

[Rockettman]

^^^^^ x2 on the pulleys.

[Blackened300a]

I can't believe this hasn't been solved yet.

So we're clear,
New tensioner
New idler
New A/C Clutch
New Belt
Same noise with alternator unplugged
Noise goes away with belt removed.
All you have left is the alternator, power steering pump, and the balancer which wouldn't make any kind of noise.

Hows your power steering fluid? Any air bubbles or is it dark? Like most oils the fluid would be thicker in the cold temps, now that its warming up outside, the fluid has a warmer startup temp and would be slightly thinner. The noise may be the pump having a hard time circulating the fluid until it warms up and is thin enough to circulate through. My cousins Honda accord had a squeal in the cold temps til it warmed up. We put some lucas power steering additive and its been fine since. Other then that I have no clue.

[Vortech347]

I didn't get around to doing the A/C clutch because the one I had didn't match up. (from an 01 Cobra)

You are correct. I'm running out of things to fix.

The Power steering fluid is dirty. But I do change it once a year. She's due for her full fluid change in a few weeks. I do coolant, fully bleed the brake system, power steering, and coolant. Every 2 years I do a tranny flush and rear end oil change.

[Blackened300a]

The Power steering fluid is dirty. But I do change it once a year.

Once a year? I think I changed mine out once in the 6 years of owning the car and it still looks fresh and clean. What fluid are you using? I used power steering fluid instead of the traditional transmission fluid.

[justbob]

Could you please post the video outside of FB as I closed my account there.

[Richy04]

If it only happens in the morning or when its cold, its the bushing in the starter, its dry. Mine is doing it now only in the morning or when its cold out. I've seen this before with Ford starters.. Remove and Replace.. I might add that it may be the bendix drive in the starter, by the time you figure out what it is, it's easier to just change the starter...

Richy04

[Big Black Beast]

This may sound stupid, but try wiping the belt and pulleys off with a warm, wet rag. Keep bumping the engine so you get as much of it as you can. All it takes is an errant drop of fluid or coolant to cause a belt to squeal , even if it's tight, because it spreads everywhere.

[Richy04]

Misread this, I had a belt squeal and the only solution is to replace the pullies or remove each one and remove the shine off of them. I opted to replace them. I bought all of the pulleys from Autozone except the one that they don't have which I bought from Ford. You just need to change the tensioner, and the small pulleys up top and a new belt.

[capt512]

Just adding my .02 - My 03 300A has the same problem it seems. Took the belt off and ran it, still had the noise, got under the car and the sound position wise sounded more like the bell housing, but using the stethoscope I couldn't hear anything through bell housing, starter, or catalytic converter. However I tapped the catalytic converter and it stopped. Restarted it multiple times and no noise. Drove it around, still no noise.

Then restarted it this morning and its back...so there ya go.

[dbc1965]

wouldn't bad alternater bearing or water pump make noise describe? recently had alternater made noise as describe.

[capt512]

It could make a similiar noise I guess, but thats the reason I pulled the belt off which controls the function of all those components you mentioned.

With the belt off and none of those components turning, the sound was still there. It was obvious when lying under the car when it was started, that the noise is coming from the bottom side. Everything up top is quiet as a mouse when running.

[Vortech347]

Its not the starter. Problem doesn't exist with the belt off. Eliminating the starter.

[TFB]

oops sorry

[Vortech347]

Well its cold again, and its back. Screech'n louder than ever.

New belt, all idlers and tensioner are new. Only thing that remains stock is the Water pump, Alt, Power Steering, and A/C.

Looking for any idea's. I know others have this problem as it did it on my 03' as well, I'm also told by Jason and Scott (Local MM owners) theirs does the exact same sound!

Its god damn embarrassing!

Video: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1728460535614

[Krytin]

Starter motor bendix drive - it was the fix for my MM & my '04 CV.

Make sure the motor is cold when you start-up w/out the belts - once the starter motor warms-up the drive doesn't hang up and stay engaged w/the flywheel after the engine is running. I had to have the car on a lift while some started it to really believe what was happening.

[Fourth Horseman]

Well its cold again, and its back. Screech'n louder than ever.

New belt, all idlers and tensioner are new. Only thing that remains stock is the Water pump, Alt, Power Steering, and A/C.

Looking for any idea's. I know others have this problem as it did it on my 03' as well, I'm also told by Jason and Scott (Local MM owners) theirs does the exact same sound!

Its god damn embarrassing!

Video: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1728460535614

Mine's better now, it stopped doing it and I never did figure it out. *shrug*
I can't view your video (no Facebook) but could it be a timing chain tensioner?

[Vortech347]

Mine's better now, it stopped doing it and I never did figure it out. *shrug*
I can't view your video (no Facebook) but could it be a timing chain tensioner?

Sound goes away without the belt on. I just don't have the ability to throw 1k into accessories on this thing in a guess to find whats wrong. The AC compressor alone is like 350-400

[capt512]

My squeal as well has stopped the last month or so, car still barely starts at times though. Sometimes won't start on first crank, always starts on second. Battery still reads good on voltage and check window...but it is still original.

[Vortech347]

My squeal as well has stopped the last month or so, car still barely starts at times though. Sometimes won't start on first crank, always starts on second. Battery still reads good on voltage and check window...but it is still original.

Put a new batt in 3 months ago. OEM one finally threw in the towl.

[Fourth Horseman]

Sound goes away without the belt on. I just don't have the ability to throw 1k into accessories on this thing in a guess to find whats wrong. The AC compressor alone is like 350-400

I don't know about yours, but what was frustrating on mine was that even with a stethoscope I could never nail down exactly where the sound was coming from. Good luck tracking it down, man. I feel your pain. It's very frustrating. :(

[Vortech347]

I don't know about yours, but what was frustrating on mine was that even with a stethoscope I could never nail down exactly where the sound was coming from. Good luck tracking it down, man. I feel your pain. It's very frustrating. :(

Exactly, I got under and over the car with one while my friend kept starting it when it was cold until the noise stopped. Its pretty repeatable until the engine comes up to temp.

[cruzer]

See Post # 80 on page 6 of this thread---it tells how I fixed this problem for less than $10. The cause of my squeal was hairline cracks in the gasket between the Idle Air Body and the intake housing. It stopped immediately and has never returned---if nothing else, remove the IAB and clean it up--it gets gummy after a while---have very smooth and steady idle ever since the gasket replacement. Takes about 10 minutes to do---try it, you'll like it. Maury

[Vortech347]

See Post # 80 on page 6 of this thread---it tells how I fixed this problem for less than $10. The cause of my squeal was hairline cracks in the gasket between the Idle Air Body and the intake housing. It stopped immediately and has never returned---if nothing else, remove the IAB and clean it up--it gets gummy after a while---have very smooth and steady idle ever since the gasket replacement. Takes about 10 minutes to do---try it, you'll like it. Maury

I did what you recommended when I removed the intake to clean it. No change.

[babbage]

It's the clutch on the your AC compressor - needs adjusting.

[Vortech347]

It's the clutch on the your AC compressor - needs adjusting.

How can I adjust it? Got any write ups?

I did try starting the car with the AC/Defrost on or off and the noise was the same.

[TFB]

Until you verify for sure I wouldn't take anything as Gospel, I seriously doubt it's the AC compressor...

Since it's defiantly in the serpentine belt drive, what I'd do is get a spray can of belt dressing and give the ribbed side of the belt a liberal spray the night before, run it maybe a minute to distribute it around then see how it sounds next morning... If it still squeals then you have a component issue, if not the belt is mostly likely slipping on the alt pulley...

[babbage]

Until you verify for sure I wouldn't take anything as Gospel, I seriously doubt it's the AC compressor...

Since it's defiantly in the serpentine belt drive, what I'd do is get a spray can of belt dressing and give the ribbed side of the belt a liberal spray the night before, run it maybe a minute to distribute it around then see how it sounds next morning... If it still squeals then you have a component issue, if not the belt is mostly likely slipping on the alt pulley...

Lets see since hes already replaced all of the pulleys.. That leaves the AC compressor. I had the same thing.

Not sure where the thread is but there are a couple on shiming it properly to the correct thickness, so it doesn't engage, grab the belt, and make a squeal...


http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9780

[Local Boy]

For whatever it's worth....I'm seeing it from TFB's point of view...

Case in point...If the noise goes away when the belt is removed...serves to reason that the noise is tied to the belt...and it's pulleys...Belt = noise....No belt = No noise...

Since you seemed to have covered everything...the only thing that hasn't been mentioned is the belt length...Is it longer than stock length? Might be too loose...

I know you said its all new stuff but I'll ask...Do your pulleys and or belt have dark marks on them...Mine have had to be cleaned because the there was some kind of hardened material on the pulleys and belt...This resulted in an uneven surface on the pulleys which made it screech...Once I scrapped it off the pulleys, it was hard stuff, the noise went away...

Good Luck...

Aloha

[Vortech347]

I tried both belt dressing and manually putting extra tension/force on the tensioner to see if it was belt slip. I really cranked down on that thing. Its not it. Besides I know exactly what belt slip sounds like and this isn't the sound, which is why I posted it. I also tried using lithium grease on the AC clutch, Alternator clutch, and power steering pump pullies. (behind them of course and not where the belt contacts the pullies)

Belt is a slightly shorter belt to make up for the steeda crank. The tensioner is in the correct range.

[Black_Noise]

did you try a new belt?...............






ha ha joking. I read all pages of this thread and couldnt resist.

Mine has done it the last 2 months or so, but it always sits a day or two between drives.

I totally understand the belt slip noise, makes good sense, but with it off, maybe it takes less force to turn over the engine thus the starter turns easier not making the noise?

Mine kinda sounds like starter or AC clutch, I havnt got into checking it cause its put away for winter now.

Keep us updated on progress.

[TFB]

Belt is a slightly shorter belt to make up for the steeda crank. The tensioner is in the correct range.

Well the only other things I can think of to trouble shoot would be to try the original belt and pulley... Also could try shorter belt to bypass the A/C compressor and/or P/S etc, but I'm not sure if that can be easily done...

[Vortech347]

Well the only other things I can think of to trouble shoot would be to try the original belt and pulley... Also could try shorter belt to bypass the A/C compressor and/or P/S etc, but I'm not sure if that can be easily done...

Won't change anything, the problem does not exist if the belt is not installed on the car.

[TFB]

Won't change anything, the problem does not exist if the belt is not installed on the car.

Read the post again, that's not what I was suggesting...

[Vortech347]

Now its getting cold again. Scream is back, pissed off more than ever. Apparently its not just the Merc's. My friend heard the car start and said his co-worker's vic does the same thing.

[Krytin]

I forget, did you duplicate the screem w/belts off?

My '03 MM and my '04 CV both had a start-up screem/screach and they both turned out to be the bendex gear/drive hanging out/engaged for a couple of seconds after start. Only happened when cold outside.

[cruzer]

See post # 80, this thread--Good luck. Maury;)

[Vortech347]

See post # 80, this thread--Good luck. Maury;)
I did that. Besides its not the problem anyway.

With the belt OFF car does not scream. I'll go get a newer video of it. I have a better camera now.

Here is the current video.

https://www.facebook.com/v/1728460535614

[MyBlackBeasts]

I did that. Besides its not the problem anyway.

With the belt OFF car does not scream. I'll go get a newer video of it. I have a better camera now.

Here is the current video.

If it does not do it with the belt off, it can only be a few things:

Idler or tensioner pulley bearing
Water pump bearing
PS bearing
A/C clutch
Alternator bearing
Alternator clutch
Use a stethoscope (or long 3/8 extension) to listen to each item at start up and find the one that's making the noise.

Good luck with the repair! :D

[HiHoSilver]

I get this strange noise too, is it this... its very intermittent, and usually never there. listen closely at startup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=venGEgHzafc

[Black_Noise]

Im wondering if this is the same noise, cause I get a rattle sound like tensioner sounding, but I also get it when Im around 1/2-3/4 throttle under load, like heavy climbing mph without downshifting.

I also have heard similar noise from my 96 grand am, and I know I had it on my 96 crown vic.

Ive just kinda gotten used to it.

hard to say if its the same noise at in vortech's video, but its not the same as Hihosilver's video.

[vegasmarauder]

I'm wondering if with the belt off there is less torque load on the starter bendix since none of the accessories are pulling on it which stops the noise. The extra load is just enough to cause the bendix to jam a little further on the shaft (the bendix has a partial spiral cut on the shaft).

It sure sounds like Bendix noise. Had a similar noise on a MM with only 98K miles (as opposed to 308K on another MM with original starter) and changed the starter and eliminated the noise.

Save some $$ and remove and grease the starter before replacing it.

[a_d_a_m]

I get this strange noise too, is it this... its very intermittent, and usually never there. listen closely at startup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=venGEgHzafc My MM does that once in a great while. My 2002 Grand Marquis did it NON STOP on cold starts between October and May. Near as I could tell it is the A/C clutch.

Not sure about the other one - can't see Facebook videos at work. :confused:

[Vortech347]

Utilizing a mechanic's stethoscope I could not pin it down at all.

Parts changed.
Belt
Idlers
Tensioner
water pump

[Vortech347]

I get this strange noise too, is it this... its very intermittent, and usually never there. listen closely at startup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=venGEgHzafc

Yup that is it! Yours isn't as bad as mine yet. I don't see how it can be the starter because the sound continues after the engine is fired up and I'm off the starter.

Video taken yesterday morning. http://youtu.be/mm3ZoAQEnC0

[a_d_a_m]

Video taken yesterday morning. http://youtu.be/mm3ZoAQEnC0 That's definitely the worst one I've ever heard.
My Marauder only 'clicks' a couple times when it does it, and only on completely cold starts.

Again, my 2002 Marquis used to do it a lot more, not quite like that though. I ended up replacing timing chain tensioners/guides thinking that was the culprit, only to find that it still made the noise. After further review I believed (and still do) that it is an A/C clutch.

[Vortech347]

It gets worse over time. It used to be a "churp". My 03' did it too.

Btw, it has been tried with and without the AC on, no difference.

[a_d_a_m]

Mine did it with the A/C on and off, same thing. I still believe it to be the A/C clutch.

[Vortech347]

Mine did it with the A/C on and off, same thing. I still believe it to be the A/C clutch.

I've had a suspicion of that just not looking forward to spending another 100$+ on a "maybe" fix. guess I'm running out of options. I've just never heard any mustang do this but yet both my marauders did?

[Krytin]

I listened to the video.
I know you said it didn't make the sound when you removed the belt.
That is the exact sound my '03 MM & '04 CV made.
I changed the starters on both and no more screach.
I had to be under the car with my hand on the starter when someone else started it to believe that's where the sound came from!!

If you are going through all of this trouble might I sugest removing the starter to inspect and lube the nosecone bearing to see if that changes anything?

It won't cost any$$ and since you have been working on the car trying to find this a little more labor ........

[Vortech347]

Haven't pulled a started yet on an MM. Easier than a stang?

[a_d_a_m]

Since this is the case...

the problem does not exist if the belt is not installed on the car. I can't imagine how the starter would be the culprit.

Someone stated before and I think it might be a good idea - shorter belt to bypass the A/C, see if it fixes it.

[Krytin]

I went through the whole deal of changing tensioners, idler pulley bearings, etc. and the sound remained intermitent. The sound went away for good after I changed the starters - 2 years ago on the MM and 3 years ago on the CV.
Do what you want.

[imorb1994]

I went through the whole deal of changing tensioners, idler pulley bearings, etc. and the sound remained intermitent. The sound went away for good after I changed the starters - 2 years ago on the MM and 3 years ago on the CV.
Do what you want.

I concur the starter is the issue. Mine does the same thing. Have been under the car for a cold start, and mine produces the same noise.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

[HiHoSilver]

I concur the starter is the issue. Mine does the same thing. Have been under the car for a cold start, and mine produces the same noise.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

I agree with that. We use ford 4.6 E250 vans at work and a few of them have been known for that same noise as well. My MM does it maybe every 10th start. The noise almost sounds like an OLD electric drill with bad brushes. I wonder if the brushes in our starters are worn out.

[maineiac]

Mine was doing that screetch,starter bendix.

[Vortech347]

Since this is the case...
I can't imagine how the starter would be the culprit.

Someone stated before and I think it might be a good idea - shorter belt to bypass the A/C, see if it fixes it.


I like your thinking. I have a million belts laying around from mustangs. I'll try that tomorrow!

I just don't get how it could be the starter if it does not make the sound with the belt off?

[a_d_a_m]

I just don't get how it could be the starter if it does not make the sound with the belt off? That's my thinking on it!

[Krytin]

That's my thinking on it!

Have either of you gone under the car to check the starter yet?

If not, how much trouble would it be to confirm or eliminate it as the problem? Less effort than you have spent typing that you don't understand how it could be the problem!

I didn't believe it was my problem either until I confirmed it for myself.
I went through everything you have been going through!

[a_d_a_m]

Less effort than you have spent typing that you don't understand how it could be the problem! Hey now, I type 103 words per minute, so it really isn't that much effort for me. :D

[Vortech347]

Have either of you gone under the car to check the starter yet?

If not, how much trouble would it be to confirm or eliminate it as the problem? Less effort than you have spent typing that you don't understand how it could be the problem!

I didn't believe it was my problem either until I confirmed it for myself.
I went through everything you have been going through!



I'm getting ready to go try a short belt in a minute. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Just need to figure out how to route the damn thing.

[Vortech347]

Currently I am cutting up a leather shoe to eat it. I just tried a short belt and noise was there. I tried no belt and its there. I have an extra starter from an 01 cobra. Going to double check part numbers and throw it in.

I don't get it. Last time with no belt it stopped!

Krytin: I believe you sir maybe the man of the hour.

[Vortech347]

Update: Swapped in a starter that had 114k from our old 01' Cobra. They were the same part number. I put high temp grease on the gear and shaft. Just a little bit.

Swapped out and 0 noise. HOWEVER...I can't call it confirmed repair until I do an ice cold start tomorrow morning. But, I believe its fixed. Funny. I've been chasing this issue with 2 cars and over 5 years. FINALLY someone called it and nailed it. I'm pissed I spent like $200 bucks replacing stuff on the front of the motor.

[Krytin]

I spent almost as much doing the same thing!
I had to have someone else literally take me by the hand while my '04 CV was on the lift, put my hand on the starter and have the car cranked over before I would believe it!

I hope this really is the solution to your problem - Good Luck and may you have quiet starts from now on!!!

[Vortech347]

I spent almost as much doing the same thing!
I had to have someone else literally take me by the hand while my '04 CV was on the lift, put my hand on the starter and have the car cranked over before I would believe it!

I hope this really is the solution to your problem - Good Luck and may you have quiet starts from now on!!!

Me too. I'm sick of having this awesome car sound like a mustang II getting fired up in the morning. Especially when my neighbors all know I do mechanic work as a secondary income. :D

Thank you for your posts!!! And to others who put their 2 cents in too.

[a_d_a_m]

Tonight's menu: humble pie

Nice call on that, Krytin!

[Krytin]

The problem was always that when the hood was up and you were standing there listening to it you just couldn't believe that the noise was coming from the starter area!
You really can't figure this problem out until you get your head under the car when the noise is happening!

Not being there in person, no one can really say for sure what anything is, but like I said before I hope this is the end for this particular problem. Happy Starting!!

[Vortech347]

The problem was always that when the hood was up and you were standing there listening to it you just couldn't believe that the noise was coming from the starter area!
You really can't figure this problem out until you get your head under the car when the noise is happening!

Not being there in person, no one can really say for sure what anything is, but like I said before I hope this is the end for this particular problem. Happy Starting!!

That is why I posted the video up the first time.

Whats funny. I have 2 friends with MM's that do this and a friend with a Vic. Now I can call them and say. "good news" and it won't be about car insurance. :lol:

[stevengerard]

I've had the same issue for a year, sometimes louder than other times but always first start-up of the day. I changed the starter - noise is gone. With the mileage on your car the front end maintenance was not wasted, I changed the serpentine belt and the tensioner as well. Now the car is really quiet except for the nice exhaust note

[TFB]

You can probably lube the original starter and stop it's noise as well, most likely issue is dry bearings...

Interestingly I've owned five 2v 4.6 & the Marauder and have never experienced a starter squeal...

[Vortech347]

Picked up a new one today. Gonna go yank the 01' Cobra one out. Its got high city miles so who knows when it could crap out.

The problem is %100 fixed. So if your car makes the noise in my videos. Its the starter.

BE HEALED!!