Turbo vs Super Charged

[TripleG]

I just received a call from my J & M Motor Sports my install guys for parts I buy about a new kit from Proturbo. The comes complete with headers and is $2000 cheaper then the supercharger kits that are here on line.

Has anyone installed a Turbo?
Is it true the Turbo has more low end power?

Web Site - http://66.70.20.245/store/scripts/pr...p?idproduct=78

Any ideas, concerns or knowledge regarding turbos would be appreciated.

[TAF]

I've looked at a turbo installed on a Marauder. Even got to see it up on a rack. The problem with the turbo is the "plumbing". Even though our cars are big, there is NOT a lot of room in the engine bay. So...the turbo that I've seen had to run the exhaust UNDER the K-member to get out, which IMHO is nothing but a "disaster waiting to happen" on the first decent-sized, speedbump.

If you can get someone to figure out a way to get this ^^^ re-routed, then a turbo would be sweet.

[woaface]

The idea is, the Supercharger builds up more quickly, no lag, because it is connected to the accesory belt, which is the first thing to turn when you lay on the gas almost. A turbo however will lag because it has to wait until the exhaust gasses leave and then spools them up and returns them. The lag would be very small on such a large engine, however I've heard some of my rice friends say that it puts a number on the engine because of the amount of backflow (if any).

Porsche makes the case for Turbos in my opinion...but you're not driving a Porsche!

I couldn't imagine a turboed MM lasting more than 70-100,000 miles.

[sailsmen]

I have owned OEM Turbo and OEM S/C.

The prob I had w/ the turbo is the retained heat under the engine compartment. All non-metal parts literally fry, I mean every thing, belts, wiper fluid container, electronics, every thing!

IMHO turbo cuts these under hood components life by 70%.

An S/C does not affect the life of these components.

Also w/ a turbo numerous internal engine parts run hotter simple because the turbo is a big heat sink and you are restricking the exhaust/heat escaping.

[TripleTransAm]

George, the turbo usually doesn't generate more low end power. It's usually the opposite. The turbo's exhaust side has to spin up before the intake side can develop significant pressure, and to do this requires exhaust flow. So that means you need engine revs...

And then there's the catch-22: to develop good intake PSI, you need a big turbo. Bigger turbos are heavier, and take more exhaust flow to spin up quick. So that means more revs.

The other option is to use a smaller turbo, to allow it to spin up without needing too much exhaust flow. But then you get a turbo that doesn't develop much intake pressure.

The popular solution to this situation is multi-turbos... smaller units that, working together, generate a decent amount of intake pressure. But then the plumbing becomes a nightmare.

It's definitely hotter under the hood, as was described. You have to consider all that hot plumbing routing around the engine, under the hood, instead of being routed directly AWAY from the engine bay as with N/A setups. And yes, the turbo itself is a hunk of metal that will suck up heat and subsequently cook things under the hood.

The supercharger is the other alternative, although it sucks up more power due to being driven mechanically off the engine. The advantage is that it spins at a rate directly related to the engine speed... no delay in spinning up like with turbos. The disadvantage is the power it sucks up... with turbos, you're using energy that would otherwise have just been expelled out the exhaust pipe so it's more efficient in the end.

[TripleG]

Thanks All!

This is the exact information I was looking for. I'll be printing these out and taking them over to J & M. The debate will continue! It's spring, I'm in the mod for more power.

[halucin8]

I have a turbo Miata as well as my MM. It makes dookie loads of power, but yes, there is a bit of turbo lag. From about 2500rpm on there's nothing but power, though. Lots of it. I chose turbo over s/c for my Miata due to the fact that the turbo made much more power.

[stumpy]

S/Cs are nice, and probably best for both drag racing and all around drivability. However, from what I've heard a ride in a super fast turbo car is like a religious experience.

[hitchhiker]

I have a turbo Miata as well as my MM. It makes dookie loads of power, but yes, there is a bit of turbo lag. From about 2500rpm on there's nothing but power, though. Lots of it. I chose turbo over s/c for my Miata due to the fact that the turbo made much more power.

With the higher-stall-speed torque converter added to the 2004 MM's from the factory, the turbo lag issue in an 'off the line' situation should be negated.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

David

[TAF]

Thanks All!

This is the exact information I was looking for. I'll be printing these out and taking them over to J & M. The debate will continue! It's spring, I'm in the mod for more power.

Good Luck!

And...don't let anybody tell you "oh...it's O.K. to have the exhaust run under the K-member"

[bigslim]

If you notice a lot of top end cars use twin-turbos to help with low-end torque and turbo lag. For a bigger car like these a supercharger is much better. A supercharger has a broader powerband.

[Lidio]

You can try all you want... but nothing will have the instant… power train straining…. Tire shredding… immediate… gratifying toque off idle of a roots type blower.

Before all the Turbo guys get on the defense, I will flat out admit that Turbos are bad-ass, probably one of the baddest power adders you can install on a motor vehicle. But they lag; even the most properly tailored ones lag some. For all out badness and a properly done package Turbos are cool and will give you more bang for the boost then roots or centrifugal blowers. But unless you give it a little brake torque to get it spooling, they simply don’t give that mechanical crank driving blower, big block feel of instant torque right off idle and at low rpm that the Marauder really needs.

Besides most Turbo kits have horrible fit, finish and packaging issues that usually turn an other wise nice car into a rattle trap. For a true street Marauder with completely stock like drivability and the feel or instant torque with out having to change axle gears or torque converter… the roots type blower is one of the best ways to go (but you new I’d say that).

[Fin Harder 92]

I have had much turbo experience having had two Buick GN's. Everything depends on the combination. I will say that with the larger displacement motor and a properly sized compressor, lag shouldn't be too much of a concern. You will of course have the heat issue.

I ran a pretty good sized 4 bolt turbo on my last Buford and had a verrrry loose converter with it. It was a pain around town but responded instantly when called on. It would absolutely blow the drag radials away. You've got to give to get.

If you understand the requirements of a strong turbo motor, I think you'll agree the investment would be more than most folks on this board would be willing to make, seeing as how our cars came N/A from the factory. I agree with Lidio, a roots style blower providing that deep down lovin' is what our cars need.

One thing though, a turbo will make gobbs of low end torque. I don't remember who said it wouldn't but man go find a turbo Buick at a stop light and see for yourself.

Take Care

[sailsmen]

This past Wed I saw a GNX and a GN run. THey both really shot out the whole. They were faster off the line then I expected.

[bigslim]

A guy I once knew had a GN and it ran fine. The only thing he had to do was brake torque the car to get the boost up while he lined up to race. IF he built boost, that car was unbeatable.