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Thread: The Autopsy Results.....OUCH!!

  1. #16
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    Sounds like your on the right track. Double and triple check your fuel system and ignition system. Put the new bullet in and let her rip again.
    Neil
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  2. #17
    After reading the description that MarauderJack posted regarding detonation, I began to wonder if there is a gauge or indicator that will someone a visual sign when detonation is occurring. I googled "engine detonation gauge" just to see if this device exist.
    Google returned responses that list Summit as to having a Casper Knock gauge and another listing regarding a "KnockBlock" that can be used to assist engine tuning and supplies a light that can viewed by the driver to alert that detonation is occurring.

    Has anyone here had experience with items such as these? If they work, sounds like a good thing to have. I suppose most people would not know if their last fill up of fuel was a good batch or bad unless conditions indicated such. By the time a person realizes this, the engine could have suffered quite a while.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHHHHTT View Post
    After reading the description that MarauderJack posted regarding detonation, I began to wonder if there is a gauge or indicator that will someone a visual sign when detonation is occurring. I googled "engine detonation gauge" just to see if this device exist.
    Google returned responses that list Summit as to having a Casper Knock gauge and another listing regarding a "KnockBlock" that can be used to assist engine tuning and supplies a light that can viewed by the driver to alert that detonation is occurring.

    Has anyone here had experience with items such as these? If they work, sounds like a good thing to have. I suppose most people would not know if their last fill up of fuel was a good batch or bad unless conditions indicated such. By the time a person realizes this, the engine could have suffered quite a while.
    The best defense it a good offense....I'm sure you have heard this!!

    My tune was conservative but I think the timing was adjusted for 93 octane...perhaps dangerous since fuel looses octane fairly rapidly??

    I am going with a 91 octane tune with the new motor guts and buy ONLY from a reliable source when I can (Shell)...no more discount gas unless absolutely necessary...then drive it easy (right??).....probably not!!

    We are all vulnerable to fuel delivery mistakes and some station owners may even "mix" higher octane tanks on purpose.....I probably got some old gas or maybe a mixture of 89 and 94...I don't know but I'm asking our State Regulators to check this station......if the octane is low on the 94 I may pursue compensation...we'll see?? 95% of the 94 octane buyers probably use it in cars setup to run 87 octane thinking they are doing better for their cars so a slug of lower octane would not hurt and would actually help them!!

    Tuning for "max power" is very dangerous unless you are absolutely sure of the fuel you are using!!
    Last edited by Marauderjack; 11-27-2014 at 04:02 AM.
    No Marauder

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marauderjack View Post
    Hey Tom......where did the piece of piston go.....on the catalyst and burn up??

    Here are some more photos of the engine removal and tear down!!
    Never did find that piece--but it wasn't as big a piece as yours---mine was about quarter size of yours that is missing...will try a get a pic FWIW....

    My rebuild re-coned my pistons tops to where they were curved and not squared that came OEM
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  5. #20
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    Does anyone recommend an octane boost additive each time you fill up?

    Can too much octane be a problem, I have a Lidio tune and drive it stiff but I don't trust the fuel when purchased as you never really no for sure.
    2004 Silver Birch
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island Cruiser View Post
    Does anyone recommend an octane boost additive each time you fill up?

    Can too much octane be a problem, I have a Lidio tune and drive it stiff but I don't trust the fuel when purchased as you never really no for sure.
    Octane boosters in the store dont do anything but raise octane a few points(10 points per octane number) I would recommend mixing in a race gas with a higher octane. Too much octane can foul plugs, and leave lots of carbon deposits behind, also it will make your wallet lighter. Unless tuned for a higher octane than 93, running a 104 octane will do nothing.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island Cruiser View Post
    Does anyone recommend an octane boost additive each time you fill up?
    Absolutely not.

    When the average OTC octane "booster" says it raises the octane by 4-7 "points", what they are really referring to is 4-7 TENTHS of an octane rating. IOW, it will raise 91 octane to 91.4 - 91.7. Not enough to be useful, plus the chemicals used create valve and spark plug deposits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Island Cruiser
    Can too much octane be a problem,
    Not a problem, per se, but using fuel with a higher octane rating than needed buys you nothing. If you have a tune or other modifications which make higher than 91 needed, then of course you should use it, but otherwise it's just money out the tailpipe.

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  8. #23
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    Marauderjack, may I ask how much boost / timing this setup had ?


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  9. #24
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    Whitey and RF Overlord, thanks for the info, happy thanksgiving to you and your crew.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island Cruiser View Post
    Does anyone recommend an octane boost additive each time you fill up?

    Can too much octane be a problem, I have a Lidio tune and drive it stiff but I don't trust the fuel when purchased as you never really no for sure.
    The Volvo Club of NA ran a test on several octane boosters. Lucas was by far the best raising the octane significantly. I have used when I was at the track and could not easily get race fuel.

    I would not use it on a regular basis for the reasons stated. If you need higher octane look into a 50/50 meth system.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimojc View Post
    Marauderjack, may I ask how much boost / timing this setup had ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not sure on timing but in cool weather it would make 11 PSI but normal was around 9 PSI!!

    That fateful day it was VERY STRONG which leads me to believe lower octane could be the culprit!!
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  12. #27
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    Typically an engine build that will see supercharging will have the top ring gapped 0.002" larger than for a naturally aspirated engine. And there is always the gapless ring option, which is actually able to accommodate more expansion because of the overlapping ends. So this is another one of those areas where a purpose-built bottom end has an advantage over stock.

    That said, paying close attention to tune, fuel and the possibility of detonation remains very important.
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  13. #28
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    I was cleaning up 2 of the piston/rod assemblies for gag gifts and LOOK WHAT I FOUND.....YIKES!!

    Wonder how many more are damaged??

    Stay Tuned!!
    Last edited by Marauderjack; 01-12-2019 at 03:33 AM.
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  14. #29
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    If you want to splash the tank with a little race gas to suppress detonation there is nothing wrong with that. If you are running on the ragged edge on a pump gas tune I would suggest it. Otherwise just lower the timing down for 91 octane and motor on down the road.
    Neil
    2003 Mercury Marauder - DBP/DC
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  15. #30
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    While not powerful enough to do damage itself, the effect of mild det is to blast the thin barrier layer of air that clings to and protects the piston from direct heat. Without this boundary layer, the piston rapidly heats, and where does piston heat go? The rings. The rings expand with the greater heat, and if they don't have enough ring gap to expand, the ends of the top ring butt against each other. With nowhere left to expand, they begin to push outwards with great force, seizing in the cylinder bore. With the ring stuck but the rod pulling the piston down, something has to give, and the top ring land shears off. Under these conditions, what the piston is made of makes no difference.

    So, what we need to know now is why it had detonation to cause all this. The most common reasons are insufficient octane (old/bad batch or mis-labeled fuel), excessive timing advance, lean fuel/air mixture, engine over-temperature (overheat or accumulated heat from a long power pull), carbon buildup, or wrong spark plug heat range. Usually, it's a combination of two or more of these, and there are other possible causes. The primary job now is determining those causes and repairing the issue to avoid a repeat. Note that the fact this engine is supercharged is not a contributor, as a normally-aspirated engine would do the same thing, under the same load conditions.



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