6R80 Swap Coming?!?!

[RubberCtyRauder]

I guess I am seeing the 6R80 as the newer version that wont work, but are 2005 6HP26 not workable either? They were built and used in 2005 and worked with the 4.6L's.

I would think the 6HP26 that's used in many vehicles by many makers would work. I can believe that in as many vehicle makers that use the 6HP26, that no one makes a custom built one that is better than Fords spin with the 6R60 or 6R80.



And no one can get a working six speed for a 2003-04 Marauder/4.6L? I am shocked.

not that many marauders out there with owners willing to experiment or spend the r & d bucks to try it. why do you think most aftermarket maraudef performance parts sfe obsolete now? Procharger kit? nope, trilogy kit? nope, baer brake kit?, nope, eibach lowering kit?, nope. too small of a market now.

[blkZooM]

The interface module that has to convert the info from the marauder PCM or any non-CANBUS PCM(analog) to the 6r80 (CANBUS) is the problem.

NOt really the interface but the program that runs on it is the biggest hurdle. Whoever figures out that program first will definitely make a lot of money!

I'm starting to wonder about something, but I don't know how the 6r80 is actually controlled does it need input from the engine? would it be possible to use two pcm flash the coyote pcm and disable all the futures that we don't need and simply have it control the trans alone?

not that many marauders out there with owners willing to experiment or spend the r & d bucks to try it. why do you think most aftermarket maraudef performance parts sfe obsolete now? Procharger kit? nope, trilogy kit? nope, baer brake kit?, nope, eibach lowering kit?, nope. too small of a market now.

I plan on driving mine to the wheels fall off, and have found away around the performance issue that aren't there anymore for our cars, but the comment about two small of a market I think is wrong, though the Marauder market is too small the market to get a 6 speed auto behind a 4.6L or 5.4L is sill huge it doesn't need to be targeted at our group directly LOTS of people other than us in the modular 4.6/5.4L may it be 2v or 4v world would benefit from that experiment

I wonder if colt could be on to something, I'm going to research to see if the earlier ZF 6hp26 had the can bus system running them, I think they did... : Nope that trans is can bus controlled also. Hell that 4l80e is looking real good, i missed out on buying one for $250

[RubberCtyRauder]

he was shocked that a 6 speed auto conversion for 03-04 Maraduer was not out there...I was not including other possible 4.6 platforms. as this is a Marauder site..

[justbob]

I guess I am seeing the 6R80 as the newer version that wont work, but are 2005 6HP26 not workable either? They were built and used in 2005 and worked with the 4.6L's.

I would think the 6HP26 that's used in many vehicles by many makers would work. I can believe that in as many vehicle makers that use the 6HP26, that no one makes a custom built one that is better than Fords spin with the 6R60 or 6R80.



And no one can get a working six speed for a 2003-04 Marauder/4.6L? I am shocked.

Does a third pedal count?


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[jwibbity]

The 6r80 is a CAN bus controlled transmission, i.e. fully electronic and integrated into the PCM/ECM of the car or truck it came out of.

Currently to swap it into ours or any other vehicle, you will need to use the PCM of the donor vehicle, the only problem with that is you cant just use the PCM only for the trans, it must communicate with every component to work properly. Since most of us want to use the 4.6L engine we have no way of communicating with the trans.

The aftermarket controller will have two major jobs to do. First it must take inputs from the stock PCM and simulate the donor car CAN bus system for the trans to function. Then it must also take the trans inputs from the stock PCM and convert/integrate them into that CAN bus system to control the transmission.

All these companies like PA and Baumann are promising stand alone controllers for non-coyote vehicles but nothing has been brought to the market yet.

I've just emailed PA, USshift/Baumann, and Schrader Performance who was said to have successfully done it

[jwibbity]

PA just emailed me back, they are expecting release to be mid-August for the non-coyote 6R80 controller.

Baumann has a 6r80 behind a pushrod 5.0L in a SN95 mustang and is expecting a fall release date. They are working on the the whole "simplifying the tuning process" for the trans.

This will happen but we will see the limitations when they actually release them.

[jwibbity]

Reply back from Power by the Hour

Jordan,


We do not have a stand alone trans controller for the 6r80. Our system is designed to work with a factory pcm where it runs the engine and the transmission so that the 6r80 can be used with torq management. Stand alone controllers to date can not do this and will not be able to deliver what you see done in the 11-up cars.


If you can figure out how to get the 4v to work with the factory auto coyote pcm then you can use what we have. To do so someone one needs to add the throttle body, knock sensors, cht, ect, etc from an coyote so that you can use the coytoe harness and subsequently the pcm as well.


Currently we do not have plans to do so here in house. Our next venture maybe for the 3v guys so they can dump the 5r55 trans.


Frank Perdomo

Power By The Hour Performance
561-737-2331
www.pbhperformance.com
215 SE 8th Ave
Boynton Beach, Fl
33435

[Colt]

The 6r80 is a CAN bus controlled transmission, i.e. fully electronic and integrated into the PCM/ECM of the car or truck it came out of.

Currently to swap it into ours or any other vehicle, you will need to use the PCM of the donor vehicle, the only problem with that is you cant just use the PCM only for the trans, it must communicate with every component to work properly. Since most of us want to use the 4.6L engine we have no way of communicating with the trans.

The aftermarket controller will have two major jobs to do. First it must take inputs from the stock PCM and simulate the donor car CAN bus system for the trans to function. Then it must also take the trans inputs from the stock PCM and convert/integrate them into that CAN bus system to control the transmission.

All these companies like PA and Baumann are promising stand alone controllers for non-coyote vehicles but nothing has been brought to the market yet.

I've just emailed PA, USshift/Baumann, and Schrader Performance who was said to have successfully done it

I guess what I don't understand is that the vehicles with the like transmission have tuning kits that as far as I know adjust the trans for shift points and other things. Its used in many apps on many vehicles. I know little about 'tech' but could a PCM from a 4.6L Explorer/F150 that uses the Trans be reprogramed for use in a Marauder? Swap and adjust the PCM? Our vehicles have a weight like a mid size SUV and the PCM's are similar.

I am amazed that people can break PCM tuning codes in a few months or a year when the factory tries to keep it secured, yet a 15+ year old transmission used by most vehicle makers in many different vehicles is more secured than Fort Knox. More so when Ford based Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Range Rover seem to use them.

There might be about 25 million plus of these transmissions made, and they are limited only what they were designed to be used in 15 years later. I give props to the over all team that made them and wish would Governments would use them for security devices and measures...

[jwibbity]

I guess what I don't understand is that the cars

??????????????

[blkZooM]

If you can figure out how to get the 4v to work with the factory auto coyote pcm then you can use what we have.

This is why I am so interested in this now someone one on SVTP has done this exact thing in his GT500 another has also got it done in his 2014/13 GT500 He did a write up on it got pissed at someone and took it down. ill link the thread http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...r80-swap/page8
I've linked in towards the end but read post 192, this can be done it seems biggest hurdle for us early 4v guys would be the "Drive by wire" throttle body

[jwibbity]

I guess what I don't understand is that the vehicles with the like transmission have tuning kits that as far as I know adjust the trans for shift points and other things. Its used in many apps on many vehicles. I know little about 'tech' but could a PCM from a 4.6L Explorer/F150 that uses the Trans be reprogramed for use in a Marauder? Swap and adjust the PCM? Our vehicles have a weight like a mid size SUV and the PCM's are similar.

I am amazed that people can break PCM tuning codes in a few months or a year when the factory tries to keep it secured, yet a 15+ year old transmission used by most vehicle makers in many different vehicles is more secured than Fort Knox. More so when Ford based Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Range Rover seem to use them.

There might be about 25 million plus of these transmissions made, and they are limited only what they were designed to be used in 15 years later. I give props to the over all team that made them and wish would Governments would use them for security devices and measures...

The problem is our PCM and the PCM's that communicate with the 6R speak different languages. The PCM out of a CAN bus system can be reprogrammed but the whole system would have to be converted over to a CAN bus network, which means converting over all component's that send analog signals to the stock PCM to now send digital signals to the reprogrammed new PCM

[blkZooM]

The problem is our PCM and the PCM's that communicate with the 6R speak different languages. The PCM out of a CAN bus system can be reprogrammed but the whole system would have to be converted over to a CAN bus network, which means converting over all component's that send analog signals to the stock PCM to now send digital signals to the reprogrammed new PCM

wonder if someone could make something that is a translator so to speak between the two languages

[jwibbity]

wonder if someone could make something that is a translator so to speak between the two languages

that will be the responsiblity of the stand alone controller and that's probably the reason it's taking so long to produce. It's easy to do when it's working in its designed enviorment but now the software will have to be completely rewritten to accomodate us 4v D.B.W. guys.

It's already been integrated into the GT500's

[96gt4.6]

The other issue here will be the transmission 'characterization'.

You see, with past automatics you had solenoids in the transmission that actuated spool valves to direct the fluid to complete a shift/ect. These solenoids were precisely wound and had a very specific resistance (number of windings=strength of magnetic field produced which equates to how far you move the spool valve/pintle). What does this mean exactly? You could pretty much put 12v and ground the specific solenoid in the trans on the older transmissions and get it to shift and shift right. This is how the aftermarket controllers essentially work for the 4R70W/ect. They use inputs from the throttle/ect, and simply ground the solenoid(s) needed to select a gear.

Fast forward to 2011+ 6R80 units (and other current Ford transmissions). Now, the game has changed. Solenoids are still used, however to save manufacturing costs they are NOT built with precise windings. What does this mean? Reduced production costs. Now, the O.E. manufacturers thought of a GREAT idea.....make solenoids with a much more wide electrical specification, and we'll change how much current we run through them to alter their movement (remember, less/more windings=more or less magnetic field and therefore movement on the shift valve).

So, what this boils down to is on the 6R80, the PCM controlling it must be programmed to the specific set of solenoids in THAT particular transmission. No two 6R80's will usually have the same combination of solenoids resistance wise.

I believe this is where part of the stumbling block for the aftermarket has been. IF you simply throw a 6R80 into something without programming the transmission's 'characterization' strategy into the pcm, the shifts will be too hard/soft/slip and it shifts/flares like crazy.

Those of you that know about my Marauder/Coyote/6R80 swap will see how I circumvented this. I used the stock Coyote PCM AND matching 6R80 from the same donor vehicle. Although, I have the ability to program any trans strategy if I ever had to change it out for some reason (it's actually only the main control/TCM that causes the need to update the trans strategy).

I'm very curious to see how the aftermarket controller will function once it comes. Someone will make one, but my question, can you bolt it up to any old 6R80 and get it to shift as smoothly as a stock vehicle, yet get the tire shredding shifts at wide open? Or, will you be stuck with using it in a 'kit' with only their transmission that will possibly have a unique valve body for their controller?

As far as a retro kit, i'm sure it will happen in time as well. Transmissions are simplistic in nature, they simply have solenoids that will apply whichever gear they are told, so it's a matter of time before this trans becomes more popular and a company gets the R&D time to make such a device.

But my concern, will always be and as those that have a stand alone controller for the 4R70W, will they ever get them to function as smoothly and as silky as using the stock PCM/controls? That, is the biggest thing I would worry about.

[jwibbity]

Double Post.....