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Thread: Corn Based Ethanol?

  1. #1
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    Corn Based Ethanol?

    Big Corn and Ethanol Hoax
    By Walter E. Williams
    Wednesday, March 12, 2008

    One of the many mandates of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 calls for oil companies to increase the amount of ethanol mixed with gasoline. President Bush said, during his 2006 State of the Union address, "America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world." Let's look at some of the "wonders" of ethanol as a replacement for gasoline.

    Ethanol contains water that distillation cannot remove. As such, it can cause major damage to automobile engines not specifically designed to burn ethanol. The water content of ethanol also risks pipeline corrosion and thus must be shipped by truck, rail car or barge. These shipping methods are far more expensive than pipelines.

    Ethanol is 20 to 30 percent less efficient than gasoline, making it more expensive per highway mile. It takes 450 pounds of corn to produce the ethanol to fill one SUV tank. That's enough corn to feed one person for a year. Plus, it takes more than one gallon of fossil fuel -- oil and natural gas -- to produce one gallon of ethanol. After all, corn must be grown, fertilized, harvested and trucked to ethanol producers -- all of which are fuel-using activities. And, it takes 1,700 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. On top of all this, if our total annual corn output were put to ethanol production, it would reduce gasoline consumption by 10 or 12 percent.

    Ethanol is so costly that it wouldn't make it in a free market. That's why Congress has enacted major ethanol subsidies, about $1.05 to $1.38 a gallon, which is no less than a tax on consumers. In fact, there's a double tax -- one in the form of ethanol subsidies and another in the form of handouts to corn farmers to the tune of $9.5 billion in 2005 alone.

    There's something else wrong with this picture. If Congress and President Bush say we need less reliance on oil and greater use of renewable fuels, then why would Congress impose a stiff tariff, 54 cents a gallon, on ethanol from Brazil? Brazilian ethanol, by the way, is produced from sugar cane and is far more energy efficient, cleaner and cheaper to produce.

    Ethanol production has driven up the prices of corn-fed livestock, such as beef, chicken and dairy products, and products made from corn, such as cereals. As a result of higher demand for corn, other grain prices, such as soybean and wheat, have risen dramatically. The fact that the U.S. is the world's largest grain producer and exporter means that the ethanol-induced higher grain prices will have a worldwide impact on food prices.

    It's easy to understand how the public, looking for cheaper gasoline, can be taken in by the call for increased ethanol usage. But politicians, corn farmers and ethanol producers know they are running a cruel hoax on the American consumer. They are in it for the money. The top leader in the ethanol hoax is Archer Daniels Midland (ADM), the country's largest producer of ethanol. Ethanol producers and the farm lobby have pressured farm state congressmen into believing that it would be political suicide if they didn't support subsidized ethanol production. That's the stick. Campaign contributions play the role of the carrot.

    The ethanol hoax is a good example of a problem economists refer to as narrow, well-defined benefits versus widely dispersed costs. It pays the ethanol lobby to organize and collect money to grease the palms of politicians willing to do their bidding because there's a large benefit for them -- higher wages and profits. The millions of gasoline consumers, who fund the benefits through higher fuel and food prices, as well as taxes, are relatively uninformed and have little clout. After all, who do you think a politician will invite into his congressional or White House office to have a heart-to-heart -- you or an Archer Daniels Midlands executive?





    Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and is the author of More Liberty Means Less Government: Our Founders Knew This Well.

    Be the first to read Walter Williams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.


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    I never looked at it that way,thanks for the info. We need to drill more here!
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    I wonder if budget issues lurk in the back ground.
    Currently the single largest government entity is the agriculture dept. Nothing comes close to it. Farmers have long enjoyed a wide variety of "programs"
    What if the real agenda was to stop some of the subsidy costs and hand them off to the gasoline consumer? Disguised as a better way? (E85) Perhaps they have decided we should pay for both.
    Certainly the Ag dept will not return any of our money,(taxes) they would prefer that we pay more. So now instead of the ag dept paying farmers to not plant corn AND paying them per bushel produced...We, the gasoline consuming public can fund their programs from the pump?
    Its a stroke of genius. Thats why I dont think it could be true. The only similarity between genius and government is the "G"

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    Corn is for eatin' and ethanol is for drinkin'!!!
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  6. #6
    Anyway Sugar cane works better than corn. 3 or 4 times better.

    Corn makes 1.5 times the energy used to make it, but sugar cane is 4+ times the energy productant.

    Unless you use solar electric tractors, combines or whatever harvesting vehicles are used for corn. Plus renewable electrically run processing plants...

    Electric tractors are a great idea. They don't have to go fast, don't go far, can be huge, and need lots of low end torque.
    Last edited by Aren Jay; 03-16-2008 at 10:17 AM.

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    Everyone is missing the big picture with Ethanol. Right now, corn based plants are but a stepping stone before we convert to celulose based waste products into ethanol. We have to start somewhere and this works for now. Brazil is 100% ethanol for their vehicles and no longer rely on foreign oil. In 10 years, we should be the same way. All of the ethanol plants throughout the midwest will be using everything BUT the corn to make fuel and you will thank them for building all the plants as we gear up.

    So many of you are so short sighted and wear blinders. Think outside the box for a minute.

    Here's another example: Once farmers are using the leftover corn stalks and hay fields, ditch mowing clippings and yard waste to create fuel, we can eliminate the federal Farm Subsidies that the government currently pays to farmers. Put that 1.3 BILLION dollars back into education, and healthcare and it goes a long way to solving other problems. Instead of paying farmers NOT to farm, let them grow weeds on the fields and turn it into Ethanol.

    So all you nay sayers on Ethanol, climb back under the rock you sleep and let the rest of use solve your problems.

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    I'm not here to pick apart the prof's thesis, and am no fan of the "corn project" as it seems silly, expensive, and wasteful, at best; but, alcohol, being very hydroscopic, will suck up any water it encounters, from pipelines, or wherever, not deposit it.

    100% Ethanol is very difficult to achieve and almost impossible to maintain, because of it's hydroscopic property, and even at 50% and less, (100 proof BTW) it's still sucks up water.

    Want to prove it? Get a mouthful of 100PF Vodka, (that's just 50% Ethanol) and try to keep it in your pie hole without spitting it out, or swallowing. You can't, because it's drying out the tender epithelial tissue inside your face.

  9. #9
    Steam power, that is the future.

    Steam cars have been around for years, replaced by gasoline with the ICE.

    ICE put the steam out.

    Now we should move back to the steam. Water power. Electric boilers and steam. Once you have the steam you can keep it in a steam state for a long time with modern technology. Electric cars are good but require too much power to overcome the resistance's. Gravity Air Friction. A steam electric hybrid would only require the electricity to keep the water/steam hot.

    I say bring back the steam cars.

    As a side note Steam cars were bigger than the ICE cars and with modern tech will make a lot less pollution. Less than Ethanol too.

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    Wow - where did the nerd come from? That's pretty insightful stuff from a car guy!

    You're 100% correct - "Corn squeezins" are a short term deal and people also need to stop spreading myths that ethanol is going to ruin your car.

    The MMs around here have been running ethanol since we have had our cars with no problems. It's the only fuel available at 93 octane -- unless you buy and mix in race gas with 91. I've had my MM now for 5 years and over 80K with dozens of track runs, nitrous setup, blah blah. The blower goes on it this coming winter and I will still be using ethanol blend.

    So much for ethanol ruining the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyFords View Post
    Everyone is missing the big picture with Ethanol. Right now, corn based plants are but a stepping stone before we convert to celulose based waste products into ethanol. We have to start somewhere and this works for now. Brazil is 100% ethanol for their vehicles and no longer rely on foreign oil. In 10 years, we should be the same way. All of the ethanol plants throughout the midwest will be using everything BUT the corn to make fuel and you will thank them for building all the plants as we gear up.

    So many of you are so short sighted and wear blinders. Think outside the box for a minute.

    Here's another example: Once farmers are using the leftover corn stalks and hay fields, ditch mowing clippings and yard waste to create fuel, we can eliminate the federal Farm Subsidies that the government currently pays to farmers. Put that 1.3 BILLION dollars back into education, and healthcare and it goes a long way to solving other problems. Instead of paying farmers NOT to farm, let them grow weeds on the fields and turn it into Ethanol.

    So all you nay sayers on Ethanol, climb back under the rock you sleep and let the rest of use solve your problems.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyFords View Post
    Right now, corn based plants are but a stepping stone before we convert to celulose based waste products into ethanol. We have to start somewhere and this works for now. Brazil is 100% ethanol for their vehicles and no longer rely on foreign oil..
    Steve, I believe there is/was a proprietary/high dollar enzyme involved in sugar conversion with grasses and such. If memory serves, that obstacle has been eliminated, and we're on our way, as you correctly point out. And we all seem to agree, not many are fans of corn, except for, perhaps, ADM, but it's a start, and meanwhile, as you say, the plants are being built.

  12. #12
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    OK study this in the process. How deep was the top soil in Iowa prior to the farming boom? Some reports indicate 6 to 8 feet deep. Just top soil mind you.
    Now walk out to any farm anywhere and measure it today. 6 to 8 inches.
    All this loss in less than 100 years.
    Dont believe? Bring your shovel to the oldest fence line you can find. dig 2 holes, one next to the post, one in the field, say 2 feet away. What do you see?
    As long as we are beating this up. Consider consumerism....
    Cars and trucks are not the only thing using fossil fuels.

    I bought into the "Gevalia" program, they sent me a free stainless steel coffee pot. It lasted 2 weeks. All that plastic,steel, copper, glass, cardboard,rubber for one pot for 2 weeks?? Its in a landfill.
    Consider the fuel expended to transport that junk from china to america to feed my coffee fetish for a mere 2 weeks. I bought another one.
    That rock I am invited to crawl under.... its called topsoil.
    Besides I would not use Brazil as a "model country"

  13. #13
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyFords View Post
    Everyone is missing the big picture with Ethanol. Right now, corn based plants are but a stepping stone before we convert to celulose based waste products into ethanol. We have to start somewhere and this works for now. Brazil is 100% ethanol for their vehicles and no longer rely on foreign oil. In 10 years, we should be the same way. All of the ethanol plants throughout the midwest will be using everything BUT the corn to make fuel and you will thank them for building all the plants as we gear up.

    So many of you are so short sighted and wear blinders. Think outside the box for a minute.

    Here's another example: Once farmers are using the leftover corn stalks and hay fields, ditch mowing clippings and yard waste to create fuel, we can eliminate the federal Farm Subsidies that the government currently pays to farmers. Put that 1.3 BILLION dollars back into education, and healthcare and it goes a long way to solving other problems. Instead of paying farmers NOT to farm, let them grow weeds on the fields and turn it into Ethanol.

    So all you nay sayers on Ethanol, climb back under the rock you sleep and let the rest of use solve your problems.
    I couldn't agree with anyone more! BTW the member that brought this "study" to light for us has an interest in big oil, so I feel his point of view may be slanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyFords View Post
    Everyone is missing the big picture with Ethanol. Right now, corn based plants are but a stepping stone before we convert to celulose based waste products into ethanol. We have to start somewhere and this works for now. Brazil is 100% ethanol for their vehicles and no longer rely on foreign oil. In 10 years, we should be the same way. All of the ethanol plants throughout the midwest will be using everything BUT the corn to make fuel and you will thank them for building all the plants as we gear up.

    So many of you are so short sighted and wear blinders. Think outside the box for a minute.

    Here's another example: Once farmers are using the leftover corn stalks and hay fields, ditch mowing clippings and yard waste to create fuel, we can eliminate the federal Farm Subsidies that the government currently pays to farmers. Put that 1.3 BILLION dollars back into education, and healthcare and it goes a long way to solving other problems. Instead of paying farmers NOT to farm, let them grow weeds on the fields and turn it into Ethanol.

    So all you nay sayers on Ethanol, climb back under the rock you sleep and let the rest of use solve your problems.
    It doesn't work, thats the whole point. Our gov't w/ our tax dollars is paying for 1/2 the costs of ethanol plants.

    There is plenty of oil off the 80% of our coast that is banned from oil exploration that can be obtained with out any government subsidies and payment of royalties to the gov't, i.e. tax payer.

    Why doesn't our gov't allow either new or existing oil refineries to be built/expanded for FREE?

    "celulose based waste products into ethanol" Why aren't they currently using it in lieu of corn? Is it becuase the subsudy is for corn?

    I am not againest ethanol. I am againest my money being used to subsidize ethanol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyFords View Post
    Once farmers are using the leftover corn stalks and hay fields, ditch mowing clippings and yard waste to create fuel, we can eliminate the federal Farm Subsidies that the government currently pays to farmers.
    John, please tell me you don't really believe that.

    Much of what you say may really be true but we are talking about politicians here. They are not noted for giving up money for pet projects.
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