6R80 Swap Coming?!?!

[jwibbity]

Reply from Schrader Performance in NC

We are working on that development now but do not have an ETA yet. Our ’99 Mustang shop car is currently performing well, and we are testing on the track as well as the street. Keep up to date with the progress on our website or our Facebook page at ShraderEngines.

[jwibbity]

The other issue here will be the transmission 'characterization'.

You see, with past automatics you had solenoids in the transmission that actuated spool valves to direct the fluid to complete a shift/ect. These solenoids were precisely wound and had a very specific resistance (number of windings=strength of magnetic field produced which equates to how far you move the spool valve/pintle). What does this mean exactly? You could pretty much put 12v and ground the specific solenoid in the trans on the older transmissions and get it to shift and shift right. This is how the aftermarket controllers essentially work for the 4R70W/ect. They use inputs from the throttle/ect, and simply ground the solenoid(s) needed to select a gear.

Fast forward to 2011+ 6R80 units (and other current Ford transmissions). Now, the game has changed. Solenoids are still used, however to save manufacturing costs they are NOT built with precise windings. What does this mean? Reduced production costs. Now, the O.E. manufacturers thought of a GREAT idea.....make solenoids with a much more wide electrical specification, and we'll change how much current we run through them to alter their movement (remember, less/more windings=more or less magnetic field and therefore movement on the shift valve).

So, what this boils down to is on the 6R80, the PCM controlling it must be programmed to the specific set of solenoids in THAT particular transmission. No two 6R80's will usually have the same combination of solenoids resistance wise.

I believe this is where part of the stumbling block for the aftermarket has been. IF you simply throw a 6R80 into something without programming the transmission's 'characterization' strategy into the pcm, the shifts will be too hard/soft/slip and it shifts/flares like crazy.

Those of you that know about my Marauder/Coyote/6R80 swap will see how I circumvented this. I used the stock Coyote PCM AND matching 6R80 from the same donor vehicle. Although, I have the ability to program any trans strategy if I ever had to change it out for some reason (it's actually only the main control/TCM that causes the need to update the trans strategy).

I'm very curious to see how the aftermarket controller will function once it comes. Someone will make one, but my question, can you bolt it up to any old 6R80 and get it to shift as smoothly as a stock vehicle, yet get the tire shredding shifts at wide open? Or, will you be stuck with using it in a 'kit' with only their transmission that will possibly have a unique valve body for their controller?

As far as a retro kit, i'm sure it will happen in time as well. Transmissions are simplistic in nature, they simply have solenoids that will apply whichever gear they are told, so it's a matter of time before this trans becomes more popular and a company gets the R&D time to make such a device.

But my concern, will always be and as those that have a stand alone controller for the 4R70W, will they ever get them to function as smoothly and as silky as using the stock PCM/controls? That, is the biggest thing I would worry about.

How does this work for the Ford Dealers that have to repair these?? Would they have stock various different resistance solenoids for every different transmission? I know the trans was built pretty stout but from a long time frame stand point having to produce and stock all those different solenoids will have it's cost also.

[jwibbity]

Reply from Baumann

Jordan,

Thanks for contacting us.

We hope to have it available this fall. Please like our Facebook page and bookmark our website for updates...
--
Best Regards,
Jake Chandler
Baumann Electronic Controls, LLC
support@usshift.com
(864) 646-8920

[96gt4.6]

How does this work for the Ford Dealers that have to repair these?? Would they have stock various different resistance solenoids for every different transmission? I know the trans was built pretty stout but from a long time frame stand point having to produce and stock all those different solenoids will have it's cost also.

Correct.

There are 4 different resistances for each solenoid. When one is replaced, it must be replaced with the same number solenoid.

I will be very curious to see how they achieve getting around this issue.

Not saying it won't happen, it will. And once it does, it will be very popular I believe. The 6R80 is a brute to say the least, and can take a whippin' and not even care in stock form.

My biggest issue if I were buying an aftermarket controller, is can it function like stock.....as far as street manners and O.E. like shift quality.

In my experience, there are usually hiccups. Too firm of shifts, incorrect up/down shifts or pressures, ect. But, then again, that's part of this game I suppose....if you want O.E. quality you have to use O.E. on most things.

If there was a company willing to touch base on how they achieve the solenoid concern, that would be awesome, i'm very curious to see how that side of it was circumvented, having complete knowledge of how the O.E. side of it works. However, that type of information would be trade secret and probably not willingly shared in writing.

[blkZooM]

Well seems like a controller has finally arrived, I now know what I want for Christmas.

https://www.facebook.com/USShift/

[Jigginadeal]

So where are we on this. Is there a good option for a six speed automatic for our cars?

[jmsa540]

Subbed!! Looking to see what happens!

[lji372]

we'll see where this leads.......

[MENINBLK]

Guys,

I have a little knowledge in automation and I think most of you are not wrapping your head around CANBus...

Just like the Internet communicates over ETHERNET, CANBus is a communication technology.
Once you implement automation on CANBus, the entire system is wired to communicate across this CANBus network.
The Marauder PCM does NOT use a network to read sensor input and control data output. It uses drivers to vary voltage and current.
This is the way an OBD-II system works.
The NEW ODB system runs everything across a CANBus network.
So sensors have a CANBus port on them to pass the signals to the PCM across the CANBus network.
Output modules have CANBus ports on them so that they can react to the output signals the PCM sends across the CANBus network to them.
DRIVE BY WIRE works purely across a CANBus/ServoDrive network.
Our Marauders would have to be completely rewired for CANBus in order to make this swap a reality, and if someone were to do that,
only the mechanical/physical limitations would keep you from utilizing ANYTHING CANBus compatible.

[blkZooM]

Guys,

I have a little knowledge in automation and I think most of you are not wrapping your head around CANBus...

Just like the Internet communicates over ETHERNET, CANBus is a communication technology.
Once you implement automation on CANBus, the entire system is wired to communicate across this CANBus network.
The Marauder PCM does NOT use a network to read sensor input and control data output. It uses drivers to vary voltage and current.
This is the way an OBD-II system works.
The NEW ODB system runs everything across a CANBus network.
So sensors have a CANBus port on them to pass the signals to the PCM across the CANBus network.
Output modules have CANBus ports on them so that they can react to the output signals the PCM sends across the CANBus network to them.
DRIVE BY WIRE works purely across a CANBus/ServoDrive network.
Our Marauders would have to be completely rewired for CANBus in order to make this swap a reality, and if someone were to do that,
only the mechanical/physical limitations would keep you from utilizing ANYTHING CANBus compatible.

Thanks for explaining that. So which do the 2005+ Panthers which all have DBW have, I know it isn't a CANbus system or is it in a way?

[Taemian]

Soooo....anyone have a 6r80 in a Marauder yet?