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Thread: Drive shafts

  1. #1
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    Drive shafts

    What are the better balanced drive shafts offered for the 2004 Marauder price & part #s example ?
    CV/PI+Taxie 3w7z-4602-ea $248.00
    GM with sport package 3w724602-da $248.00
    Mercury Marauder 3w32-4602-aa $365.00
    2004 marauder black purchased new. Sold 9/16 at 297,000 miles. Still ran strong didn't burn a drop of oil.
    2003 marauder black 28,000 miles all stock. Garage Queen.
    2004 marauder red daily driver.

  2. #2
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    WELL from what I have read DR has this
    6061 Dynotech Driveshaft
    Code: MM-MMDS
    Price: $561.00
    Amazing that the Marauder shaft is more expensive than those others as
    that is a limiting factor on the MM.

  3. #3
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    I've heard there is another drive shaft avalable for less money than the dyno tech drive shaft. Does anyone know any thing about it ?
    2004 marauder black purchased new. Sold 9/16 at 297,000 miles. Still ran strong didn't burn a drop of oil.
    2003 marauder black 28,000 miles all stock. Garage Queen.
    2004 marauder red daily driver.

  4. #4
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    A perfectly balanced banana is still a banana.
    1/4 Mile Time 11.542 @ 121.19 MPH
    195,000 Miles & 275+ Runs Down the 1,320’
    541.57 RWHP & 476.64 RWTQ on DynoJet
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    Monroe Sensatrac, Metco Control Arms, Addco Rear Sway Bar
    31 Ford Spline Axles & Detroit Truetrac, 4:10 Ford Racing Gears
    Dynotech MMC Driveshaft
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sailsmen View Post
    A perfectly balanced banana is still a banana.
    That's what they say, but I've never been able to figure out how to mount up the u-joints to the banana. And yes, I have tried putting the banana in both ways, still no joy. Strangely, the shop manual is silent on proper orientation of the banana.
    2003 Mercury Marauder
    2007 Lincoln Town Car
    1993 Crown Victoria LX

  6. #6
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    Peel it first then the laws of physics will no longer apply.
    1/4 Mile Time 11.542 @ 121.19 MPH
    195,000 Miles & 275+ Runs Down the 1,320’
    541.57 RWHP & 476.64 RWTQ on DynoJet
    Tuned by Aric at Injected Engineering
    Vortech Super Charger V-2 “T” Trim, 19 PSI
    8 Rib Belt, Innovators West 10% Overdrive Dampner
    Air to Air Intercooler, Mini-race Bypass
    Ford Cobra Remanufactured Long Block
    Snow Performance Water-Methanol Injection
    Kooks Headers & X Pipe
    GT MAF, 60lb injectors, Dash 8, Aero Rails, Twin Ford GT Pumps,
    Kinsler Fuel Filter, Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump
    Monroe Sensatrac, Metco Control Arms, Addco Rear Sway Bar
    31 Ford Spline Axles & Detroit Truetrac, 4:10 Ford Racing Gears
    Dynotech MMC Driveshaft
    A-1 Performance Trans, Forced Tailshaft Lube, Carbon Clutches
    3,500 RPM Stall Precision Industries Torque Converter
    B&M Deep Finned Trans Pan
    AeroForce Scan Gauges , Auto Meter Oil, Fuel & Boost Gauges
    Kenny Brown Dead Pedal, 35% Tint, Silver Star Head Lights
    AutoPage Alarm RS-727LCD, Boston Acoustic NX87

  7. #7
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    Mmmmmmm....... nanners......



    KillJoy

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by burt ragio View Post
    What are the better balanced drive shafts offered for the 2004 Marauder price & part #s example ?
    CV/PI+Taxie 3w7z-4602-ea $248.00
    GM with sport package 3w724602-da $248.00
    Mercury Marauder 3w32-4602-aa $365.00

    Drive line Critical speed
    What it is –
    Every rotating object has a “critical” speed or resonant speed, which is a function of its design, mass and stiffness. This is when the driveshaft is whipping in the middle, rather than spinning on a true centerline. For a driveshaft, this is also called “first bending mode”, indicating the shaft actually bows out into a boomerang shape (on a micro-scale). This first mode bending speed is usually referred to in a driveshaft frequency.

    What it does –
    The energy stored and released through the deflection of the driveshaft through the resonance creates lateral and vertical accelerations of >10g at the problem frequency, which results in broken transmission extension housings, cases and causes moderate to severe vibration at highway speeds (> 70 mph), particularly with axle ratios numerically higher than 3.27:1. This energy release, when compounded by excessive driveshaft imbalance (some is good, too much or too little is not), companion flange run out/imbalance and excessive driveline angles provides the driver with excessive vibration and boom and tortures the driver and driveline components in general.

    Because of this, most vehicles have a speed limiter to prevent from entering this mode and causing damage to the driveline.

    Some detail –
    As mentioned above, the driveshaft rotates at a certain speed based on rear axle ratio; tire size and road speed, but is independent of engine speed (unless you have a vehicle such as a Porsche 944 or C5 Corvette which utilize torque tubes and transaxles, in which case the driveshaft turns at engine speed).

    The factors governing driveshaft critical speed include its material properties (i.e., Bulk Modulus of Elasticity which is roughly analogous to material stiffness), diameter, and length and to a lesser degree, wall thickness.

    The only factor you can really modify to affect critical speed is material choice. Length is package-dictated, and diameter is usually constrained by driveline tunnel space as well. The answer then becomes a bit simpler – replace your steel shaft with an aluminum or MMC (metal matrix composite) shaft. Both offer reduced weight, which is key in this frequency range. MMC offers the additional bonus of additional damping and stiffness over a typical aluminum alloy.

    As mentioned above, at the frequencies in question, a change in rotational mass has a greater impact on resonant frequency than a change in stiffness does, partly since it is easier to reduce mass than increase stiffness (adding stiffness almost invariably means adding mass -- a vicious circle), but particularly since resonant frequency is equal to the sqrt (k/m), where m is mass and k is stiffness. Here m is a stronger function being the in the denominator of a square root. So you can see that as “m” gets smaller, the resonant frequency “f” gets much bigger.

    The use of an aluminum shaft provides a dual purpose – increasing critical speed out of the operating range AND directly reduces the rotational forces since those rotational forces are governed by:

    F = mr w**2
    Where w is rotation speed, m is the mass and r is the radius at which it is spinning.

    This means that a 50% reduction in rotational mass results in 50% less rotational force. So, when a driveshaft rotates out of true, due to run out of the shaft itself or due to trans output shaft or axle companion flange run out, the reduced mass * the radius of gyration (i.e., run out) product is smaller than for the same conditions with a steel shaft.

    This becomes important not only at critical speed, but at more normal operational speeds where the effects of run out and mass imbalance are more evident than those of resonance:

    For a typical Fox or SN95 Mustang, driveline critical speed is around 95-100 Hz. Using stock tires we have the following:

    225-60R15, 225-55R16, 245-45R17 all rotate at 812-820 revs/mile at 60 mph.

    This give is 13.5 Hz wheel frequency at 60 mph, and assuming a 3.27 axle, we then have:

    812/60*3.27 or 44.25 Hz , driveline frequency.

    So, 100/44.25*60 yields a driveline critical VEHICLE speed of 135 mph. A good rule of thumb states that the objectionable driveline forces will start becoming significant at 70% of resonant frequency, so for the case of the 3.27 axle, the boom and vibration may be felt beginning at 95 mph.

    Typically, 3.27 axles don’t provide the driver with much to complain about; it is 3.73 and above which create the concerns. Using a 3.73, we find that

    13.53*3.73 gives 50.5 Hz wheel frequency at 60 mph (substantially higher than the 3.27)

    And the critical VEHICLE speed then becomes

    100/50.5*60 or 119 mph.

    Taking 70% of 119 mph equals 83 mph, certainly a speed at which some Mustang drivers experience occasionally.

    For a 4.10 axle, the “70% speed” is 76 mph!

    Compounding this problem are factors like transmission output shaft run out, imbalances and run outs from components such as the reverse sun gear, driveshaft, companion flange and pinion pitch line run out (a torque induced run out created when the pinion tries to crawl up the face of the ring gear involutes).

    Combine these factors and the already marginal NVH resulting from proximity to 1st bending (critical speed) and the NVH becomes absolutely agricultural.

    The aluminum shaft minimizes the contribution from companion flange run out and the driveshaft’s own run out, directly due the lower mass. The pinion is free to pitch +/- 20 degrees and adding in any run outs of the companion flange or driveshaft at the pinion end results in the driveshaft mass having a large eccentric path to wobble about. It is this path times the mass of the driveshaft, which gives the characteristic boom and vibration at highway speeds.

    Thus, as Newton predicted, as mass decreases so will the forces. That is why an aluminum shaft is your friend when coupled to 3.73s.

    One side note: that great big mass on your pinion nose, fondly named by driveline engineers after the appendage on a male moose, is tuned to 45 Hz, the frequency at which the 2nd order forces created by u-joints as they rotate, force the pinion to bounce or pitch up and down and shake you by the seat of your pants and create an uncomfortable boom in the car. Once again run outs and imbalances will modulate this 2nd order driveline phenomenon to make it worse, so the moral is, LEAVE THE MOOSEB-, uh, DAMPER ON the pinion nose!

    Another item: you CAN expect more axle noise when using an aluminum shaft however, which does not necessarily mean the pinion depth or side shims are incorrect, or that the gear cutting process is flawed. It just means that the aluminum shaft is more willing to “bend” circumferentially, torsionally and in a double hump (2nd bending) much more easily than a steel shaft.

    Recall my prior statements at the very beginning about aluminum stiffness vs. steel? Picture a piece of sheet metal ducting. Bend it and it makes a WA-WA sound. That is pretty much what a driveshaft does, but at a much higher frequency – higher than even the dreaded “critical speed” of 100 Hz.

    Axle noise will occur from about 350 Hz all the way through 500 Hz, sometimes even higher than that. The energy comes from the teeth meshing at the pinion/ring gear interface. This energy is transmitted to the driveshaft (and suspension components) and makes them deflect in the same sense as a piece of sheet metal goes WA-WA. Aluminum is less stiff than steel and takes less energy to deflect it, so it is far more inclined to make your axle go WOOOOO as you drive down the road at 45-70 mph.

    Assuming again a 3.73 axle ratio, which has 11 teeth on the pinion and 41 on the ring gear, the axle noise frequency is calculated as (at 45-70 mph):

    815/60*3.73*11 or 557 Hz at 60 mph.

    This means the WOOO you hear at 45 mph is about 418 Hz and the WEEEEEE you hear at 70 mph is way up there at 650 Hz. You can’t SEE the driveshaft is bending and breathing and twisting, but it is telling you that precisely that is occurring.

    So, now armed with this information, you now understand the basics of your vehicle’s driveline.

    Information provided by JW

  9. #9
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    WOW! Holy SHHH...DENNIS you lost me by the 2nd paragraph. Thanks for info, by the way it almost took me an hour to put on the pro Gard. That is why I am NOT a mechanic.
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  10. #10
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    Bottom line is that the MMX driveshaft is cheap insurance. I got mine from Dennis in 2004, because he took the time then to educate everyone on this issue, and I knew that I would (occasionally) need to get up to 120-130 or so in order to pass someone.

    OR, much more likely, want to drive at 80-90 for long distances on the interstate.

    After putting money into the rear end and the tranny, I'm happier than ever I decided to get this as well. I do believe the stock DS we have is a balanced one that's a cut above the regular one offered in the panther platform, but with 4:10's and other mods I felt the metal matrix composite shaft was the way to go.

    Norm

  11. #11
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    You can still find MMX shafts (identifiable by the color striping) in junkyard ex CVPI cars. If I can positively ID one, they can be had for around $75-100 each
    Steve H., Charles County, MD www.carfap.com
    1994 Lincoln Town Car. 98-02 front brakes, P71 steering and sway bars, Eaton swap build underway using TorkTech 4.6 2v intake kit.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by VicsEvilBrother View Post
    You can still find MMX shafts (identifiable by the color striping) in junkyard ex CVPI cars. If I can positively ID one, they can be had for around $75-100 each

    Even these drive shafts were rated to 128 MPH, the only safe option is a Dynotech DS

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Reinhart View Post
    Even these drive shafts were rated to 128 MPH, the only safe option is a Dynotech DS

    Uhhh...... if it is rated at 128mph continuous..... why would anyone need to buy a Dynotech?

    I average about 85-90 at MOST. Occasionally triples are seen, but not sustained.

    I do not see ANYONE on this forum driving 128mph for more than a minute or two AT MOST!



    KillJoy

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by KillJoy View Post
    Uhhh...... if it is rated at 128mph continuous..... why would anyone need to buy a Dynotech?

    I average about 85-90 at MOST. Occasionally triples are seen, but not sustained.

    I do not see ANYONE on this forum driving 128mph for more than a minute or two AT MOST!



    KillJoy

    Well you should know by now. Even Steve Babcock verified what has been posted, and what you fail to account for is if any member has installedc 4:10 you will reach critical driveline vibration well before 100 MPH, installing the drive shaft is members choice, I respect you opinion, and I have mine.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Reinhart View Post
    Well you should know by now. Even Steve Babcock verified what has been posted, and what you fail to account for is if any member has installedc 4:10 you will reach critical driveline vibration well before 100 MPH, installing the drive shaft is members choice, I respect you opinion, and I have mine.

    I had not taken 4.10's into account.....



    KillJoy

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