12000 mile UOA

[Bill Lalk]

Well I finally have the UOA on Mobil One 0-20, 12,300 miles on oil, 29,100 on the 04'. And, you guys were right. If I am understanding the findings correctly, I may be prematurely wearing out my engine Hopefully I haven't too much wear/damage. I am trying 5-20 Mobil One for 5000 miles and will get a second UOA and decide then if I should try a different oil.

[Bill Lalk]

Please give me your thoughts, now that the fine people at .net have installed the report for me

[fastblackmerc]

I change my oil, Mobile One 5w-20, and filter every 5K. Looks like you kept the oil in too long and used up all the anti-wear additives out of it.

[LILALLEYKATT]

Royal Purple swears to 15,000 miles without the breakdown while it micro polishes the bearings ...I still think I will change it at around 5K for the piece of mind. I used Mobil 1 in everything I drove for years until I found that out about Royal Purple.

[Bigdogjim]

The "TNB" number is the tell all. At 1.5 they are correct change sooner.

Run another sample and let us know. What oil chage # is this?

[MitchB]

I am responsible for a fleet of 400 diesel powered buses. We pull regular oil samples on the entire fleet. Any sample showing greater than 25 PPM of silicon or aluminum kicks back as critical, meaning the vehicle is down until the oil is changed and corrective action is taken. Silicon is especially damaging as it acts like an abrasive grit circulating in the oil. Silicon comes from unfiltered air entering the engine. If this were my vehicle, I would check the induction system ducting from the throttle body to the air filter housing to ensure there are no leaks. I would also check the seal between the air filter and the housing. Had you changed your oil sooner, you would not have built up these contaminates to the levels shown. Your TBN may be, in part, from the way the vehicle is used. Do you drive your car for significant amounts of time with the engine cold and/or for short trips?

Mitch

[RF Overlord]

Bill:

Wow...where do I start...

First, I agree 100% with all the comments so far. You left this oil in WAY too long.

TBN shouldn't be allowed to fall below ~2...that's the cutoff for additive pack depletion and means you are no longer protected against acid formation, corrosion, sludge build-up, etc.

Second, even though this motor may be a copper-generator, 98 ppm is too high. Mine at 20,000 was 34 ppm and now at 45,000 has settled to 19 ppm. Your numbers indicate possible excessive valvetrain wear.

While your aluminium number is high, it isn't TOO scary, but your iron number IS...taken together they mean you have a lot of wear going on; piston scuffing, bearings, valve guides...keep in mind that Mobil 1 does normally show slightly elevated iron readings, but yours is way beyond that.

Your silicon number, (not to be confused with sili-cone) is also high. I agree with MitchB that you should check the entire intake system; the airbox, air filter, MAF, intake tract, throttle body and upper intake, and be sure everything is sealed and tight. Silicon is an abrasive and may well account for most of the wear you're seeing.

The "classic" Mobil 1 products, as opposed to the newer "Mobil 1 EP", are generally good for somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 miles, YMMV. Your idea of running 5,000 on the next OCI and re-sampling is a good one. If you are still interested in extended OCIs, you could then try 7,500 and 10,000 and see what UOAs at those points tell you.

Good luck, and if I can be of any help at all, you know where to find me...

*EDIT* Did you really use 6 quarts of oil as make-up? Tell me more...did consumption suddenly increase at some point or has your motor always consumed a lot of oil?

[Bluerauder]

First, I agree 100% with all the comments so far. You left this oil in WAY too long.

Was this an "experiment" to test the longevity of the Mobil 1 0-20W oil?

[AstroVic]

*EDIT* Did you really use 6 quarts of oil as make-up? Tell me more...did consumption suddenly increase at some point or has your motor always consumed a lot of oil?

I agree with all of the above comments. This is truly one of the worst UOAs I've ever seen. While I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination, I've looked at a LOT of UOAs and tried to be halfway knowledgeable about what I'm seeing.

I, too, had the question about the makeup oil. I think this was your first UOA, so perhaps you misunderstood what they were asking. The makeup oil is only that amount of oil you *added* during the course of the interval - say, for instance, you went a quart low at the 4,000 mile mark and you added a quart to top it off.

I use Royal Purple synthetics and have used Mobil 1 synthetics extensively in the past so I'm definitely a synthetic fanatic, especially for higher performance or more expensive cars. Still, I think you'd be better off using a cheaper dino oil - or a good blend such as Motorcraft 5W20 - and changing it more frequently (4,000 to 5,000 OCI max) if you're concerned with cost effectiveness.

Otherwise, I generally agree with your plan to limit the OCI to 5,000 miles next time. Maybe a couple of short-OCI runs of 3,000 miles would be useful in "cleaning up" some of the nasty leftover oil that is still in your engine from this last oil change.

Also, please consider posting this over at www.bobistheoilguy.com in the UOA section. If you don't have an account there, I'll post it for you if you'll give me permission to do so, with your private information blurred out.

[Bill Lalk]

Thank you guys for your feedback. I was gone for awhile. Sorry for the delay. Now I shall shed some light on your questions.
RF: Astrovic was right about the 6 qts. This is the first time I did a UOA and answered that question wrong. In fact, the car used hardly any oil. In 12000 miles I only added 1 quart. A half here and a half there. But, when I changed it at 12,300, it was almost a quart low. So I guess I used about 2 quarts over the entire 12K.
Bluerauder: No, this was not a test. I would not use my baby as a guinny pig. Actually, I was just ignorant to the vulnerability of this 4.6 and had it drilled into my head how bullit proof they were. Well, I know better now. I have always changed oil in my other rigs at 10K(with synthetic). The 12K miles just got away from me a bit, but never again. I just hope there isn't too much damage. I wanted to drive this ride for a long time.
Mitch: Unfortunately, my MM gets way more short trips around town than longer trips on the highway. I know thats not good. Advice?
Bigdog: This was my 1st oil change. I bought the car used at 16,800. Installed 0-20 Mobil One soon as I got home. 2nd change at 29,100 which is the UOA you see above.
Astrovic: I see you caught my 6 quart mistake right off. Of coarse you have my permission to post the UOA wherever you like. Thanks for asking and post back anything you feel we may have an interest in reading.
So, whats with this Royal Purple I been hearing about? I have never seen it for sale anyplace. And, is it better than Amsoil/Mobil One? Thanks for all your input!

[AstroVic]

... I was just ignorant to the vulnerability of this 4.6 and had it drilled into my head how bullit proof they were. ... I just hope there isn't too much damage. I wanted to drive this ride for a long time.

Bill, Keep in mind that UOAs are measured in "parts per million" so it's not like you've permanently destroyed your engine or anything. Once crummy UOA doesn't necessarily mean your engine is going to throw a rod, so take heart that this was probably nothing more than just a learning experience. Nothing more, nothing less. Just don't do it again!

Mitch: Unfortunately, my MM gets way more short trips around town than longer trips on the highway. I know thats not good. Advice?

The short trips are probably a big reason for your elevated wear numbers. Longer trips allow the oil to get up to operating temperature and to subsequently burn off any impurities (moisture, fuel, etc.) that naturally get into your oil.

A good general rule of thumb is: the shorter your daily trips, the shorter your OCI should be. And vice versa.

Astrovic: ...Of coarse you have my permission to post the UOA wherever you like. ...So, whats with this Royal Purple I been hearing about? I have never seen it for sale anyplace. And, is it better than Amsoil/Mobil One? Thanks for all your input!

I will post it at bobistheoilguy. Thanks for your permission.

Royal Purple is a big-time name in the racing crowd. It's a fairly small company (in the big scheme of things anyhow) and it has a very loyal following among those who use it. Still, it probably isn't any better or worse than Amsoil, Mobil 1, Red Line, etc. At that level, you're probably splitting hairs.

If you'd like to try Royal Purple, I can probably help you out. Their world headquarters is about 25 miles from my house and I have a cash "distributor" account with them. Basically, I get the stuff for half of what you'd pay off the shelf.

Normally, you'll find Royal Purple at O'Reilly Auto Parts, some NAPA Auto Parts, and other auto parts stores. It usually runs about $7-$8 per quart. (I buy it for a hair over $4 a quart with tax included.)

Also, their gear lube is top-notch stuff. Pretty much everyone will probably agree with that. I run the 75W90 in all of my Panthers with excellent results.

Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to get the UOA. I definitely appreciate it.

[Bill Lalk]

I paid $6 per quart for Mobil One. The Royal Purple seems like a decent price, although I am not worried about a few bucks if its better for my engine. Thanks for the rearend advice, I forgot all about that. If I can't find their products locally, I will PM you. Thank YOU for the help/offer.

[AstroVic]

Bill,

Here is the link to the BITOG posting of your UOA. Check it from time to time to see what kind of comments you get. There are a lot of very well informed tribologists on there who will likely comment on your analysis.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...vc=#Post751812

Todd

[Loco1234]

if you would liek to read up further on Royal Purple just visit their web site.

http://www.royalpurple.com/

It is very informative... I use Royal purple in everything..... except tranny... Mercon IV is better...

FYI:
Royal Purple is purple becasue of a dye they use so if you have a fuild leak you can use an ulta violet light to make the fuild glow... thus tracking it back to its source much easier...

[RF Overlord]

Bill, if you can get RP for a decent price, go for it.

Mobil 1, RP, AMSOIL, and Red Line are about the only easily available true synthetic oils out there. The others are boutique oils that are either hard to find or very expensive (usually both).

One other oil that's becoming highly regarded on BITOG is Pennzoil Platinum. It's a fair amount less expensive than any of the oils above^^^, especially if you get it at Pep Boys, where there's currently a $15/cs mail-in rebate, bringing it to about $1.99 a quart.