Brake booster feedback

[Lowndex]

What are your thoughts on brake boosters (CPP, Ground Up, PST, The Right Stuff Detailing Matt’s Classic Bowtie)?

* I expect many will say, "you do not need one". And this is welcomed information.

* If anyone has a brake booster installed in their 03 or 04 Marauder, please share which one you installed and your overall feedback.

Thank you for the input,
Lowndex

[fastblackmerc]

I have the OEM / original one installed. Works like a charm.

How about switching to hydroboost?

http://www.hydratechbraking.com/

[Lowndex]

I have the OEM / original one installed. Works like a charm.

How about switching to hydroboost?

http://www.hydratechbraking.com/

Yes, I am interested in just such a product. I did some Google searches on various brake boosters along with reviews and complaints for vendors mentioned in my post. Now I seek experienced feedback from our members.

Thank you, sir.

[tbone]

Good luck.....(with the advice)

[martyo]

What are you trying to accomplish by swapping the booster?

[lifespeed]

Is your goal to bypass possible issues with vacuum (and power brake) availability under all circumstances in a boosted car? There are other ways to address this, check valves and a storage canister. The factory check valve and brake booster serves as a modest storage canister already. Remember, even an NA engine at full throttle has no vacuum either, and the brakes still work.

No doubt the hydraulic booster is the best solution available. That said, there are plenty of members with supercharged cars whose brakes apparently work OK. You could always run it on the OEM vacuum booster for a while and see what you think before swapping to a hydraulic booster.

Keep us advised how it works.

[tbone]

No doubt the hydraulic booster is the best solution available. That said, there are plenty of members with supercharged cars whose brakes apparently work OK. You could always run it on the OEM vacuum booster for a while and see what you think before swapping to a hydraulic booster.




The factory brakes are weak, but it is not a booster problem. The pedal effort is somewhat high, but decreasing pedal effort won't do anything for thermal capacity, stopping power, etc.



Which is it?

[lifespeed]

Which is it?

You should post the full context, not snippets.


How about a hydraulic brake booster? I know it won't help for track use (which no one seems to do) because the brakes would overheat quickly, but for DD and 1/4 mile stops, I think it would help a lot.

It seems to me like the Marauder just doesn't have enough vacuum assist in the setup. My slotted/drilled rotors and Monroe ceramic pads helped a lot though.

The fact that a hydraulic booster is better than vacuum does not mean the vacuum booster is inadequate, nor does it make up for inadequacies elsewhere in the system. Bad Marauder brakes are simply that, the brakes (calipers and rotors) suck. Increasing hydraulic pressure does not make up for it. I get great results from my stock vacuum booster, (new) stock master cylinder and Wilwood Aero6/NMDP front/rear caliper combination. I don't feel a need to switch to a hydraulic booster, even though it is "better" the brakes are fantastic as they are.

Lowndex does not run stock brakes either.

[tbone]

What I snipped was plenty. You contradicted yourself. I exposed it.

[FordNut]

The stock booster works fine. Even with boost and cams.

Normally you won't stay in boost more than a few seconds and you're probably not using the brakes at that time.

[lifespeed]

What I snipped was plenty. You contradicted yourself. I exposed it.

Hardly. The fact that a hydraulic booster is better than a vacuum booster does not imply it fixes the Marauder caliper and rotor deficiency. Apples and oranges. Go put a hydraulic booster on your car, hammer the stock brakes with the increased pressure and see how it works out for you. Report back.

Until then everything you have said is just conjecture. Everything I have posted is based on experience with actual brake setups. It took more effort and money than reading an article and typing on a keyboard.

[Lowndex]

What are you trying to accomplish by swapping the booster?

Stop faster.

[Lowndex]

Is your goal to bypass possible issues with vacuum (and power brake) availability under all circumstances in a boosted car? There are other ways to address this, check valves and a storage canister. The factory check valve and brake booster serves as a modest storage canister already. Remember, even an NA engine at full throttle has no vacuum either, and the brakes still work.

No doubt the hydraulic booster is the best solution available. That said, there are plenty of members with supercharged cars whose brakes apparently work OK. You could always run it on the OEM vacuum booster for a while and see what you think before swapping to a hydraulic booster.

Keep us advised how it works.

I will inspect hydraulic boosters. Any make/model you recommend?

[lifespeed]

I will inspect hydraulic boosters. Any make/model you recommend?

I don't have any experience with them, just read positive things about them like everybody else. I also haven't noticed any need for more brake assist with the big Wilwood Aero6 calipers and rotors.

But if you want the very best, there is no argument that hydraulic beats vacuum. You may be looking at that last 5% improvement compared to 95% from the calipers and rotors.

[martyo]

Stop faster.

You may be looking for love in all the wrong places.

I am not sure you will pick up enough of a gain in stopping power from a booster swap unless your booster is failing, which does happen.

I will tell you we have done a couple of the Zack and Jerry big brake upgrades coupled with the TCE stainless lines and found the stopping power more than adequate on cars with more horsepower than I think your build will yield.

[Lowndex]

I have purchased new 15" front and 14" rear brake kits to go along with the new 20" wheels and tires. Sounds like it will be enough.

[lifespeed]

I have purchased new 15" front and 14" rear brake kits to go along with the new 20" wheels and tires. Sounds like it will be enough.

Try them with the stock booster first. It is easy enough to switch to a hydraulic booster later if you're not happy.

Also, you want to pay attention to the front/rear piston area ratio to create the proper balance. Stock is 2:1, the kit I have is about 1.6:1. The added rear bias compared to stock is helpful, the stock balance is too far to the front.

[Todd TCE]

Stop faster.


Buy a better tire.

[Lowndex]

Buy a better tire.

I run Nitto' front and rear. Tires were not the problem; your inadequate brake kits were. I replaced them with quality brakes made for the weight of the vehicle.

[tbone]

Hardly. The fact that a hydraulic booster is better than a vacuum booster does not imply it fixes the Marauder caliper and rotor deficiency. Apples and oranges. Go put a hydraulic booster on your car, hammer the stock brakes with the increased pressure and see how it works out for you. Report back.

Until then everything you have said is just conjecture. Everything I have posted is based on experience with actual brake setups. It took more effort and money than reading an article and typing on a keyboard.

You spend an inordinate amount of time trying to justify your Wilwoods.

AGAIN, I never implied that my suggestion was THE solution for the ultimate performance brakes, just a way to improve them for everyday driving and 1/4 mile stops. How many times do I have to repeat that before it sinks in??

I personally replaced my entire brake system including calipers, pads, rotors, master cylinder, brake booster, rubber lines, speed bleeders, and vacuum hoses. I have tried different rotors and pad combos, all in search of stronger brakes, so don't give me your "typing on a keyboard" shtick.



How about a hydraulic brake booster? I know it won't help for track use (which no one seems to do) because the brakes would overheat quickly, but for DD and 1/4 mile stops, I think it would help a lot.

It seems to me like the Marauder just doesn't have enough vacuum assist in the setup. My slotted/drilled rotors and Monroe ceramic pads helped a lot though.

[justbob]

So if I set a pressure regulator for water, air, oil, hydraulic fluid, or whatever else I choose, I wouldn't see a difference in said system?

While the brake design is inadequate to most here it seems, saying that increased pressures would yield little to no results is just plain laughable without the facts or knowledge of both systems operating pressures.

Common sense would tell me that they are close in design as the brake components are designed to work with both. But I would never guess and preach.

I've said before and I'll repeat. Go drive a fully loaded van or pick up for a few days and then judge your standard four door mass production land yacht Marauder. This is far from a Caddy V series, as the price should of pointed out when new.

I feel they are fine even with my stock rubber hoses! Anyone who has met me knows the hell I put my car through.




Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[tbone]

Having to "stand" on the brakes in a panic stop is reason enough (for me) to install the brake booster system. I've been there a few times.

[Lowndex]

So if I set a pressure regulator for water, air, oil, hydraulic fluid, or whatever else I choose, I wouldn't see a difference in said system?

While the brake design is inadequate to most here it seems, saying that increased pressures would yield little to no results is just plain laughable without the facts or knowledge of both systems operating pressures.

Common sense would tell me that they are close in design as the brake components are designed to work with both. But I would never guess and preach.

I've said before and I'll repeat. Go drive a fully loaded van or pick up for a few days and then judge your standard four door mass production land yacht Marauder. This is far from a Caddy V series, as the price should of pointed out when new.

I feel they are fine even with my stock rubber hoses! Anyone who has met me knows the hell I put my car through.




Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

I hear you are happy with your stock brake setup; I am not, and thus, seek a better braking package.

[tbone]

I hear you are happy with your stock brake setup; I am not, and thus, seek a better braking package.

I put in an inquiry to Hydratech. I'll let you know what they say.

[Lowndex]

I put in an inquiry to Hydratech. I'll let you know what they say.

Thank you.

[lifespeed]

While the brake design is inadequate to most here it seems, saying that increased pressures would yield little to no results is just plain laughable without the facts or knowledge of both systems operating pressures.

The stock rotors and calipers don't hold up well to the load the car presents as indicated by pad transfer and pulsing, also known as "warped rotors". Once this occurs braking effectiveness drops off even more. And pedal effort is pretty high.

Applying more booster pressure, while helpful for pedal effort, couldn't possibly change the caliper/rotor overload problem. The funny thing is, fixing the caliper/rotor issue also fixes the high pedal effort. And anti-lock brake effectiveness. And wear life.

[justbob]

The ONLY pulsating rotors my car ever had was the set it came with?

I know I push my car to the limits, what are some of you doing to these cars that is creating all this??

If it were a real issue, there would have been plenty of lawsuits followed by recalls.


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[Lowndex]

The ONLY pulsating rotors my car ever had was the set it came with?

I know I push my car to the limits, what are some of you doing to these cars that is creating all this??

If it were a real issue, there would have been plenty of lawsuits followed by recalls.


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

Again, glad you are happy with your stock setup; I am not. We each deserve our opinion.

[tbone]

The ONLY pulsating rotors my car ever had was the set it came with?

I know I push my car to the limits, what are some of you doing to these cars that is creating all this??

If it were a real issue, there would have been plenty of lawsuits followed by recalls.


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

When you spend that kind of coin for big name brake calipers and rotors, you justify it at all costs. :burnout:

[lifespeed]

The ONLY pulsating rotors my car ever had was the set it came with?

I know I push my car to the limits, what are some of you doing to these cars that is creating all this??

If it were a real issue, there would have been plenty of lawsuits followed by recalls.

Glad you got it worked out to your satisfaction. Do you think there are so many threads and different approaches to brake upgrades because there isn't an issue? :confused:

Tbone doesn't seem too happy with his brakes either, despite his mockery of proper fixes. What non-existent problem are you not seeking to remedy? :D

I'm happy with my results. I'm sure the stopping distance is shorter and the wear life longer than your average Marauder, and it feels safe to me when I need to use the brakes.

Each to their own. Later!

[FordNut]

This is funny.

[tbone]

Tbone doesn't seem too happy with his brakes either, despite his mockery of proper fixes. What non-existent problem are you not seeking to remedy?



Can you read? Standing on the brakes in a panic stop and easier daily driving / 1/4 mile stops. If installing a booster solves these issues and I save $1000's in the process, I call that a win.

Proper fixes? So your Wilwoods and 20" wheels are the only solution? :bs:

[tbone]

No doubt the hydraulic booster is the best solution available. That said, there are plenty of members with supercharged cars whose brakes apparently work OK. You could always run it on the OEM vacuum booster for a while and see what you think before swapping to a hydraulic booster.

Keep us advised how it works.

What happened to these pearls of wisdom?

[Lowndex]

Here is a hint of what is coming from BRG Racing.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/nhgyoz.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmnhgyozj)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/Y5Z0TJ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p5Y5Z0TJj)

[RubberCtyRauder]

12345678910

[Lowndex]

Spend $70k on your car. It will never be worth the money spent. Why not just take everything off and fab everything from scratch. Then you can quit bitchin about how inferior the cars parts are.

"Haters gone hate, hate, hate. Shake it off, shake it off"

:flamer:

[RubberCtyRauder]

"Haters gone hate, hate, hate. Shake it off, shake it off"

:flamer:

Braggers gonna brag..i don't hate. I like to stir **** up. I enjoy my car as it isn't in a shop for a year taking my wallet with it.

[martyo]

Here is a hint of what is coming from BRG Racing.


What are they saying about the booster swap?

[Lowndex]

What are they saying about the booster swap?

Marginal gain = not needed. Does not mean I do not want one. :)

[justbob]

Marginal gain = not needed. Does not mean I do not want one. :)


Interesting short read.

https://matthewghrist.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/hydro-vs-vacuum-boost-brake-systems/

I never bothered to investigate before, but even if the numbers listed are off by a high percentages it still speaks volumes of a huge difference in stopping effort..


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[tbone]

Thanks Bob.

I can't get my ABS to engage on dry pavement no matter how hard I smash the brake pedal. Panic stops are a real nail biter. The ABS system is in perfect operating condition, ie on wet or snowy pavement. It just needs more pressure in my ever so humble opinion. I suppose it's possible I have a vacuum leak somewhere, but I don't think so.

[Lowndex]

Interesting short read.

https://matthewghrist.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/hydro-vs-vacuum-boost-brake-systems/

I never bothered to investigate before, but even if the numbers listed are off by a high percentages it still speaks volumes of a huge difference in stopping effort..


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

Now which one to buy?

I hear CPP customer service sucks.

[lji372]

This is funny.

Here we go again......
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/30/d29a2b86e443754d5459f39deb1597 a5.jpg

[Lowndex]

Here we go again......
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/30/d29a2b86e443754d5459f39deb1597 a5.jpg

Back at you Richard!

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/6sGUV1.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl6sGUV1j)

[tbone]

Back at you Richard!

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/6sGUV1.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl6sGUV1j)

Refer to post #4. :rolleyes:

[MyBlackBeasts]

Interesting short read.

https://matthewghrist.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/hydro-vs-vacuum-boost-brake-systems/

I never bothered to investigate before, but even if the numbers listed are off by a high percentages it still speaks volumes of a huge difference in stopping effort..


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

Hydroboost is awesome. Had it on an old Chevy 3/4 ton p/u and on my 1977 Mark V. I miss it, the braking is SO superior.

As for the MM brakes I can state honestly that they suck. I don't know what the Ford boys in the brake engineering dept are smoking - here is factual info:

My 1997 Tbird with 4 wheel disc was horribly under braked. Always had to exert huge pedal pressure to stop the car combined with excessive braking distance.

My mothers 2000 Sable with rear drums = easy braking, slight brake pressure and quick stops. Beat the h3ll out of the Tbird brakes.

Got my MM and was expecting the 4Wdisc on it to be comparable to the brakes on my 96SS - MASSIVE disappointment. The GM boys beat the pants off the Ford boys (to my embarrassment) when it came to braking design.

I am constantly causing the ABS to kick in on dry pavement purely by the excessive pedal pressure used to stop the thing when "playing".

H3ll, my 4WD F150 has better brakes...

I upgraded to the SS brake lines and braking improved, I'm looking forward to adding some big brakes to the Beast so it at least stops as well as my SS.

Carry on...

[Lowndex]

I hear you. The brake hat for 20" wheels (front and rear) should be available soon. Contact information on the first page.

With any luck, BRG Racing will also make available an brake hat for 18" wheel applications. Doing so would allow a Marauder owner to order their own rotors, calipers, and pads.

[Zack]

I always felt the Marauder needed a larger diameter master cylinder.
Please let BRG do the research and then provide it to us. You'll save me a lot of work

[MOTOWN]

I've thought about the bigger master cylinder, which will require a bigger bore brake booster , i like Baers Remaster cylinder.

[Lowndex]

If you have used and like a hydraulic brake booster, please tell me. BRG Racing will recommend what has worked well for them on Mustang, Camaro, Dodge, etc.. I want to share proven Marauder brake boosters for ample consideration.

So, I will email BRG Racing MOTOWN's recommendation (email still down). I cut-n-paste his response so they can view the thread and find MOTOWN's input (not my interpretation - bad idea).

[MOTOWN]

If you have used and like a hydraulic brake booster, please tell me. BRG Racing will recommend what has worked well for them on Mustang, Camaro, Dodge, etc.. I want to share proven Marauder brake boosters for ample consideration.

So, I will email BRG Racing MOTOWN's recommendation (email still down). I cut-n-paste his response so they can view the thread and find MOTOWN's input (not my interpretation - bad idea).

I have used a Hydraulic booster on one of my Grand Nationals, never on a Marauder, but I would love to see the results.

[MOTOWN]

I have been considering trying out this master cylinder from Baer http://baer.com/Remaster.html

[lifespeed]

Pedal travel vs master cylinder bore and pedal effort are inversely proportional. Smaller MC bore gives more travel and less effort. At the caliper end smaller bore gives more effort and less travel.

It is all just hydraulic area and volume ratios. In the end you still need some boost assist or the pedal travel gets excessive. Or you could do long-travel manual brakes, been done that way for decades. Probably not the expectation for a "luxury" car, but I ran them on my 1970 GTO for many years as the old school solution to a lumpy camshaft. It is a different feel, but works just fine.

[Turbov6Bryan]

I know you guys like pictures :)

Here is a small article on swapping from a powermaster to a hydroboost setup on a GN.

Tapping into the power steering and returning into the reservoir makes it a simple install lol Ive owned 3 diesel trucks with hydroboost, no mooshy pedal ever.


http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/brakes/1008gmhtp-grand-national-hydroboost-braking-system/

[justbob]

Toomanyfords on here is the only one I know of who swapped to hydro. Not too sure If his car counts as a Marauder anymore though.. LOL


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[tbone]

Still waiting on Hydratech to get back to me.....

[Bradley G]

Subscribing

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

[tbone]

Jim at Hydratech says he already has his engineer looking at the bolt pattern on the Crown Vic and will get back to me later this week. He does not foresee any issues in making one fit and work great. He sounds like a top notch guy. I told him I will be his first customer.

[Bradley G]

Jim at Hydratech says he already has his engineer looking at the bolt pattern on the Crown Vic and will get back to me later this week. He does not foresee any issues in making one fit and work great. He sounds like a top notch guy. I told him I will be his first customer.
Nice!
I can't wait to try it out on your car!
Might be just the answer to the anemic brakes we got .

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

[Lowndex]

Still waiting on Hydratech to get back to me.....

Thank you for the update.

[Lowndex]

Nice!
I can't wait to try it out on your car!
Might be just the answer to the anemic brakes we got .

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

For those wanting increased stopping capability, my hope is to help 17 and 18" wheel size brake systems stop better; not just big brake packages.

So, the investigation continues.

[MOTOWN]

You can look at this from many different view points, but a hydraulic brake booster is not going to address inferior cast iron 2 piston brake calipers, or undersized rotors on a 4250lb car , I've ran every brake combo there is for these cars , there is no work around , we have Wilwoods, and Jerry's big brake swap.

[lifespeed]

You can look at this from many different view points, but a hydraulic brake booster is not going to address inferior cast iron 2 piston brake calipers, or undersized rotors on a 4250lb car , I've ran every brake combo there is for these cars , there is no work around , we have Wilwoods, and Jerry's big brake swap.

Careful, that's not what they want to hear.

But yeah, Occam's Razor: Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

[Chayton]

You can look at this from many different view points, but a hydraulic brake booster is not going to address inferior cast iron 2 piston brake calipers, or undersized rotors on a 4250lb car , I've ran every brake combo there is for these cars , there is no work around , we have Wilwoods, and Jerry's big brake swap.


Im pretty sure hes aware of this already....I myself stopped by BRG yesterday. good stuff going on there

[tbone]

It all depends on the results desired. I have no intention of "hammering" the brakes over and over again in 5 miles like some hard headed, poor listening, Wilwood loving, ugly 20" wheel adoring boy racers around here THINK the car has to be capable of doing or else it's worthless.

Do I really have to state what MY end goals are AGAIN??? Clean the **** out of your ears.

[tbone]

Im pretty sure hes aware of this already....I myself stopped by BRG yesterday. good stuff going on there

Yes, acutely aware.

[Chayton]

BTW Kacy isnt ignorant and knows how to use the internet and type mercurymarauder.net



just a heads up

[MOTOWN]

It all depends on the results desired. I have no intention of "hammering" the brakes over and over again in 5 miles like some hard headed, poor listening, Wilwood loving, ugly 20" wheel adoring boy racers around here THINK the car has to be capable of doing or else it's worthless.

Do I really have to state what MY end goals are AGAIN??? Clean the **** out of your ears.

Seriously man:confused: is all the childish :bs: really necessary?

[tbone]

Seriously man:confused: is all the childish :bs: really necessary?

Refer to post #63. And previous ones. I'm sick of this crap. Others are too per PM's I have gotten. And if you would have read more carefully you would also see what my goals are in my brakes and that your posts are unnecessary as well.

I made a suggestion in the previous thread and all I have gotten since then is attacked for it. I am not a lemming and will not go along just to get along.

[MOTOWN]

Refer to post #63. And previous ones. I'm sick of this crap. Others are too per PM's I have gotten. And if you would have read more carefully you would also see what my goals are in my brakes and that your posts are unnecessary as well.

Doesn't matter what your goals are , simply because we disagree on a given topic doesn't mean you need to start hurling insults like an ignorant child! We can all agree to disagree.

[tbone]

You need to read back. I was insulted for the last time. Occam's Razor? What a joke. Now you're the PC police? Thanks dad.

[MOTOWN]

You need to read back. I was insulted for the last time. Now you're the PC police? Thanks dad.

Anytime son , now STFU , and go play!

[tbone]

Anytime son , now STFU , and go play!

Ooooh, witty! Same way you ended the last argument with me over brakes that you lost.

Enjoy your ugly 20" wheels Boy Racer.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

It all depends on the results desired. I have no intention of "hammering" the brakes over and over again in 5 miles like some hard headed, poor listening, Wilwood loving, ugly 20" wheel adoring boy racers around here THINK the car has to be capable of doing or else it's worthless.

Do I really have to state what MY end goals are AGAIN??? Clean the **** out of your ears.

Give it up and admit the stock 18s and antiquated 2 piston calipers/small rotors are the limiting factor :D

[tbone]

Give it up and admit the stock 18s and antiquated 2 piston calipers/small rotors are the limiting factor :D

Omg. Refer to post #20. Read carefully.

Seriously. You guys can't just read the last post made and decide to post your 2 cents. Really sloppy.

[MOTOWN]

Ooooh, witty! Same way you ended the last argument with me over brakes that you lost.

Enjoy your ugly 20" wheels Boy Racer.

LMAO! ummmm no sir im WINNING! my Wilwoods stop on a dime , and give change! 6 piston calipers, and 15" rotors, hot Dayuum :burnout:

[justbob]

Give it up and admit the stock 18s and antiquated 2 piston calipers/small rotors are the limiting factor :D


Limiting factors:

Mass produced, economy, full size, outdated, Mercury sedan.

Brakes are fine considering the car as a whole..


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[tbone]

LMAO! ummmm no sir im WINNING! my Wilwoods stop on a dime , and give change! 6 piston calipers, and 15" rotors, hot Dayuum :burnout:

I'll get my brakes to do what I want for a fraction of the cost. I'll use the savings to get the entire car repainted. THAT'S winning.

[MOTOWN]

I'll get my brakes to do what I want for a fraction of the cost. I'll use the savings to get the entire car repainted. THAT'S winning.

I honestly hope it works out for you!

[justbob]

No need to throw stones guys. Anything you do is an improvement as with anything. Some perform more than others, but also some guys here are also expecting more is all or different requirements altogether.

Seems like a silly thing to fuss over..





Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[MOTOWN]

No need to throw stones guys. Anything you do is an improvement as with anything. Some perform more than others, but also some guys here are also expecting more is all or different requirements altogether.

Seems like a silly thing to fuss over..





Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

I couldn't agree more, very well said.

[Chayton]

amen hollah hollah winner winner chicken dinner!

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Limiting factors:

Mass produced, economy, full size, outdated, Mercury sedan.

Brakes are fine considering the car as a whole..


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

Brakes are fine for the car in stock form.

If you really want to hang with the big boys, m5s, panameras, e63s etc once you add more power..6 piston calipers and larger rotors are needed for a car of this weight. The high offset, small wheels are at least somewhat of a limiting factor since most are not willing to part with the stock wheel design.

Not sure why people are quick to drop thousands on horsepower upgrades and cheap out on brakes which are more important. Heck I'll upgrade just for the improved looks over the puny stock setup.

[justbob]

That's just it. The more HP you add does not change anything unless your tracking your car. On the streets it's still stopping the same car as before exceeding the speed limit just as it was when stock.

Even Sherman still has stock brakes and he's been in the deep 10's for years now.

I'd get a nice set of Wilwoods just for looks as I love spending money. But too many other things on the needy list come first.




Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

True that. Too bad we don't have canyons in the boring Midwest to really have some fun.

[Triple Threat]

That's just it. The more HP you add does not change anything unless your tracking your car. On the streets it's still stopping the same car as before exceeding the speed limit just as it was when stock.

Even Sherman still has stock brakes and he's been in the deep 10's for years now.

I'd get a nice set of Wilwoods just for looks as I love spending money. But too many other things on the needy list come first.




Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk


Both of my race cars have stock front brakes and Wilwood rear brakes for 15 in. wheel on back.No problem stopping car on track at 178 mph.

[Zack]

Could be the parachute that's doing most of the stopping?

[tbone]

That's just it. The more HP you add does not change anything unless your tracking your car. On the streets it's still stopping the same car as before exceeding the speed limit just as it was when stock.

Even Sherman still has stock brakes and he's been in the deep 10's for years now.

I'd get a nice set of Wilwoods just for looks as I love spending money. But too many other things on the needy list come first.

Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

Exactly. :beer:

[Triple Threat]

Could be the parachute that's doing most of the stopping?

Only used the chute 2 times to see what it was like.With increased h.p. this year we will be using it on every run.

[tbone]

I rear-ended a car this morning...the start of a REALLY bad day!
The driver got out of the other car, and he was a DWARF!!
He looked up at me and said 'I am NOT Happy!'
So I said, 'Well, which one ARE you then?'
That's how the fight started.

[Lowndex]

To each his own. I find the stock brakes and TCE Performance 13" kits inadequate. I understand the disagreement and respect others views.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

F. Scott Fitzgerald

[MyBlackBeasts]

Give it up and admit the stock 18s and antiquated 2 piston calipers/small rotors are the limiting factor



Not necessarily. I can speak from experience. My 1977 Lincoln Mark V:

4960# car
15" wheels
11.75" front & rear rotors
single piston floating calipers
hydroboost assist
Solid pedal, excellent braking, always felt safe & secure when braking and stopping distance I'd put at 75% of my MM.

All this just = FoMoCo brake design engineers with their heads up their arses, just like the ones working on the 1997 Tbird LX V6 4w disc... Sensing a pattern here, them vs. competition. Last car I drove with braking this poor, non ford was a Chevette.

Just my :twocents:.

[MyBlackBeasts]

I rear-ended a car this morning...the start of a REALLY bad day!
The driver got out of the other car, and he was a DWARF!!
He looked up at me and said 'I am NOT Happy!'
So I said, 'Well, which one ARE you then?'
That's how the fight started.

Hahaha! I see what you did there... :D

[Bradley G]

And that blows my mind!
I'm guessing you had to adjust bias a little bit more towards the rear?
Tell us it still had to cost a small fortune,

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

[MOTOWN]

Here ya go TBONE! https://youtu.be/d3bBiY5ot18

[Chayton]

Y'all are funny. It's okay to think outside the box! It really is. Then again I'm just a kid

Sent from my 0PM92 using Tapatalk

[CWright]

Here ya go TBONE! https://youtu.be/d3bBiY5ot18



d3bBiY5ot18&feature=youtu.be

[lji372]

I rear-ended a car this morning...the start of a REALLY bad day!
The driver got out of the other car, and he was a DWARF!!
He looked up at me and said 'I am NOT Happy!'
So I said, 'Well, which one ARE you then?'
That's how the fight started.

You had me :lol:

[Lowndex]

d3bBiY5ot18&feature=youtu.be

Many bad reviews on CPP customer service.

[MOTOWN]

Many bad reviews on CPP customer service.

The reason I posted the video was to illustrate the hydroboost setup to anyone unfamiliar with how it works, not so much to advertise for Cpp.

[tbone]

I knew that. Looking at the hydratech one. Waiting for his engineer to look at the bolt pattern.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Anyone with a big brake kit (>2 piston), notice their pedal travel increase since you are adding fluid to the wheels side of the system? I have read this can happen when you don't change the size of the master cylinder and add volume to the wheel side with more pistons.

[MOTOWN]

Anyone with a big brake kit (>2 piston), notice their pedal travel increase since you are adding fluid to the wheels side of the system? I have read this can happen when you don't change the size of the master cylinder and add volume to the wheel side with more pistons.

No , not an issue

[lifespeed]

Anyone with a big brake kit (>2 piston), notice their pedal travel increase since you are adding fluid to the wheels side of the system? I have read this can happen when you don't change the size of the master cylinder and add volume to the wheel side with more pistons.

The design of the Wilwood kit is correct in piston area ratios front/rear (more rear bias) and master/caliper ratios as well. Pedal feel and travel are good.

[fastblackmerc]

No , not an issue


The design of the Wilwood kit is correct in piston area ratios front/rear (more rear bias) and master/caliper ratios as well. Pedal feel and travel are good.

What they ^^^^^^^ said!

[Lowndex]

KC is in contact with Hydratech. He is working on applying the unit to my ride. I will post what is needed for the installation (words, pictures) by early March.

[Todd TCE]

I browsed some of this thread.

From one who has sold kits for older vehicles and those with turbos etc etc. the use of hydra-boost systems is not uncommon. Even early disc Vettes are occasionally converted.

The sole purpose of the system is to elevate line pressure, nothing more. It is a 'boost' to the effort of your leg. Just like the vacuum booster now. So why use it? Many cars have vacuum issues and don't generate enough to keep up with the demands of the braking needs. Ie. turbos or high lift cams for example.

Hydra-boos it not a system to make a car stop shorter or faster. *If the system is functioning correctly already. Moving from 700psi with one leg to 1000psi pushing with both is pretty much the same thing. "Boosters" simply allow granny to push with very little effort and achieve great results. Or as above; make up for lack of other boost in a conventional system.

The down side to such systems is line pressure. If you the net result is line pressure far beyond stock that is a huge strain on the hoses and calipers. Hose bursting or caliper flex are a very real possibility.

For maximum braking line pressure is simply a band-aide solution. More torque is best achieved by larger rotors, aggressive pads and stickier tires.

Boosted systems are fine if they are used correctly and in the right context. Don't mix up 'boost' with better braking however in comparable designs.

[tbone]

KC is in contact with Hydratech. He is working on applying the unit to my ride. I will post what is needed for the installation (words, pictures) by early March.

I put in a follow up call to Jim at Hydratech yesterday. Glad to hear something is coming down the pike on it.

[Lowndex]

I disagree brake boosters are to help granny apply more pressure. They are best used for racing applications where you want minimal, repeatable pressure and the need to do so for a sustained period. Other than amateur AFM qualifying (never made it) days of my youth, I am no racer. I have read, when the engine vacuum is at low pressure, stopping power is reduced as less pressure is available for the master cylinder. The brake booster has reserve pressure stored and ready for immediate use. I welcome hearing the real story with 'modern' cars.

Speaking for daily drive and limited street fun use:

Whether using Zack's kit, TCE Plus 4 or the new BRG Racing brake kit (hello Wilwood rotors and Brembo monoblock calipers), I doubt a brake booster is 'needed' for daily driver use. Members using Zack's kit are quite happy. So why get a brake booster? For me, living in Liberalfornia, people drive like they belong on The Walking Dead show - minimal spacing between vehicles and no brain use. And when it rains,.........., OMG! So, I want the best braking solution money can buy using all season tires (not sticky ones - do not work in rain) and not abrasive pads (wear rotors faster).

For less than $400, and a modest pressure increase (not bust the hoses levels), better stopping power is achieved, especially at low engine vacuum pressure levels. For non emergency, warm weather conditions, it makes braking more fun and repeatable using whatever tire/pad combination. Not a need, but easier, repeatable and fun.

I like Hot Rod Magazine's explanation of why brake boosters are nice-to-have.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/1404-cpp-street-beast-hydra-stop/

......some form of hydraulically assisted brake booster (and restore that light touch to your power brakes).

When engine vacuum is low, the pressure differential is low, so stopping power is limited or even nonexistent. With a hydraulic assist unit, however, pressure from the power steering system is stored in an accumulator, and momentarily discharged to the master cylinder when brake pressure is applied. The beauty of a hydro assist is that pedal effort is low and stopping power is consistent, irrespective of the engine's load.

In traffic, we can now relax, knowing that even panic stops are easy at any engine load, speed, or rpm. This is one mod that really gives the green light to big cams and big power on the street!

Lowndex

[Todd TCE]

The Granny reference was simply a point to be made where aide is required.

From a racing standpoint...I don't know of any racing cars that use this system. Granted I don't follow any and all forms but it is sure far more the exception than the rule. Doesn't mean it won't work.

I think the Hotrod story says pretty much the same thing: it's a pressure aide substitute for conventional vacuum assist. Pretty much the same reasons I cited above.

Again; its a genuine alternative to conventional pressure, lack of, or inconsistent etc. My only point was that changing how one boosts line pressure is not really a braking improvement to the extent that it's better stopping. Its simply an alternate means of boosting the line pressure. The value of that isn't really necessary if the stock booster is working properly or there is a loss of vacuum pressure elsewhere.

*By all means don't let any that stop someone from trying it. That was never my intent.

[Todd TCE]

If you guys will allow me...without a lot of bickering here:

If you want a better pedal feel, (ie. better braking- which it really isn't but rather the placebo effect) then get rid of the 1.0" bore mc you have now.

http://centriccatalog.com/part_images/130.61117_Catalog.jpg

For the stock caliper piston are your car has this is an inordinately small bore. The car should have been fit with a 1.062 or even 1.125 bore part. (larger bore = lower pressure but firmer pedal)

For so long the comments of 'our brakes suck' and this is the primary reason why. Actually the clamping pressure is insane. But the tactical feel is like stepping on a plumb. Aftermarket brake kits, including mine, don't really work 'better' at this they simply alter the hydraulic relationship to match the bore. You have to push with nearly 20% more effort on my 13" kit to achieve brake torque you have from the factory. What makes this (and some of others) better? Because you like the net feel.

I'm reaching out a bit here to offer some help. If anyone doesn't wish to read it or agree I'm fine with that. I don't offer it up to argue just food for thought: install a larger bore MC..you'll be happier.

[fastblackmerc]

If you guys will allow me...without a lot of bickering here:

If you want a better pedal feel, (ie. better braking- which it really isn't but rather the placebo effect) then get rid of the 1.0" bore mc you have now.

http://centriccatalog.com/part_images/130.61117_Catalog.jpg

For the stock caliper piston are your car has this is an inordinately small bore. The car should have been fit with a 1.062 or even 1.125 bore part. (larger bore = lower pressure but firmer pedal)

For so long the comments of 'our brakes suck' and this is the primary reason why. Actually the clamping pressure is insane. But the tactical feel is like stepping on a plumb. Aftermarket brake kits, including mine, don't really work 'better' at this they simply alter the hydraulic relationship to match the bore. You have to push with nearly 20% more effort on my 13" kit to achieve brake torque you have from the factory. What makes this (and some of others) better? Because you like the net feel.

I'm reaching out a bit here to offer some help. If anyone doesn't wish to read it or agree I'm fine with that. I don't offer it up to argue just food for thought: install a larger bore MC..you'll be happier.

Todd, where can I get a bigger bore MC?

[Todd TCE]

I'm not certain. The F series stuff is probably larger. It's going to be a search and destroy mission of time to find something. Most will probably bolt up but no promise on the plumbing.

You can search through Centric here: http://www.centricparts.com/

There are also 1.125 bore Wilwood parts.
http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno =260-8556

Numbers to numbers the 1.125 also require roughly 20% more effort to get the same brake force. So that's not to far off.

[Lowndex]

Todd,

I believe you are add value to the discussion. Please continue to share your insights.

[tbone]

I spoke with Jim at Hydratech today. They are working on it. He said the only thing that will have to be "customized" is that a Crown Vic brake pedal will need to be used instead of the MM pedal. Has to do with the ratio and length of the pedal rod. He thinks they will have more answers in about 1 week.

Base model with line kit, using stock master cylinder, approximate price $865.

[Lowndex]

I spoke with Jim at Hydratech today. They are working on it. He said the only thing that will have to be "customized" is that a Crown Vic brake pedal will need to be used instead of the MM pedal. Has to do with the ratio and length of the pedal rod. He thinks they will have more answers in about 1 week.

Base model with line kit, using stock master cylinder, approximate price $865.

I will amend my $400 statement to reflect the new price tag. The $400 came from American Muscle. I will find the link and re-post here.

Thank you for helping drive Hydratech to a solution.

Appreciated,
Lowndex

[tbone]

I figured it would be around there. As my wife always says, "You pay for quality".

[Lowndex]

I figured it would be around there. As my wife always says, "You pay for quality".

Hum, my wife says, "wtf did you pay"? :rolleyes:

[tbone]

We pretty much have a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy around here when it comes to the Marauder $$. Works for me! :beer:

[Lowndex]

I'm not certain. The F series stuff is probably larger. It's going to be a search and destroy mission of time to find something. Most will probably bolt up but no promise on the plumbing.

You can search through Centric here: http://www.centricparts.com/

There are also 1.125 bore Wilwood parts.
http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno =260-8556

Numbers to numbers the 1.125 also require roughly 20% more effort to get the same brake force. So that's not to far off.

I like this unit. Any Brembo master cylinders you know of similar to the Wilwood one? I am a Brembo guy.

[Lowndex]

I spoke with Jim at Hydratech today. They are working on it. He said the only thing that will have to be "customized" is that a Crown Vic brake pedal will need to be used instead of the MM pedal. Has to do with the ratio and length of the pedal rod. He thinks they will have more answers in about 1 week.

Base model with line kit, using stock master cylinder, approximate price $865.

Is Hydratech ready to take our orders?

I want mine in powder coated, glossy black. The new master cylinder will match.

[tbone]

I'm scheduled to follow up with him this Friday.

[Lowndex]

Booster ordered by BRG Racing. Scheduled to arrive 3/22.

[tbone]

So they ordered it from Hydratech for you? How much?

[tbone]

I guess I'll wait and see how you like it. Do a before and after on your supercar brakes first though please.

[Lowndex]

$895.00, before tax and shipping.

[Lowndex]

I guess I'll wait and see how you like it. Do a before and after on your supercar brakes first though please.

When I receive the car, the new brakes, wheels, tires and brake booster will be installed. I will ask if I can turn off the booster and test, followed by on and test.

[justbob]

When I receive the car, the new brakes, wheels, tires and brake booster will be installed. I will ask if I can turn off the booster and test, followed by on and test.


I'll answer for you now. No. [emoji4]


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[tbone]

When I receive the car, the new brakes, wheels, tires and brake booster will be installed. I will ask if I can turn off the booster and test, followed by on and test.

Aren't the brakes already installed? Dude, it's easy for the shop to do a comparo with vacuum assist vs hydro boost. It takes them no extra time to install the kit after the brakes are already done. How else are you going to know if it was $900+ well spent?

[justbob]

Aren't the brakes already installed? Dude, it's easy for the shop to do a comparo with vacuum assist vs hydro boost. It takes them no extra time to install the kit after the brakes are already done. How else are you going to know if it was $900+ well spent?


^This could not be any better said.


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[babbage]

Aren't the brakes already installed? Dude, it's easy for the shop to do a comparo with vacuum assist vs hydro boost. It takes them no extra time to install the kit after the brakes are already done. How else are you going to know if it was $900+ well spent?


With his brand new awesome brakes they'll work amazing EITHER way...

[tbone]

With his brand new awesome brakes they'll work amazing EITHER way...

That's kind of my point. Putting a booster on "supercar" brakes may be overkill and make no difference whatsoever. It would be very interesting to know the results.

[Lowndex]

I have asked KC to hold off installing the brake booster until after we perform several 0-60 stops (record distance). Then, install the brake booster and re-test.

Ideally, it would be great to perform brake tests (no booster) alongside lifespeed with his TCE 15 Aero 6 kit.

[Lowndex]

Aren't the brakes already installed? Dude, it's easy for the shop to do a compare with vacuum assist vs hydro boost. It takes them no extra time to install the kit after the brakes are already done. How else are you going to know if it was $900+ well spent?

No, the brakes are not installed. The custom brake hats are being cut out of blocks of billet aluminum. A few revisions will be required until they are deemed ready for install. I have seen a video of the CnC cutting my new brake hats - very cool. The brake hates look like beautiful big pieces of jewelry! People may look past my Brembo monoblock calipers and Forgeline wheels asking, "what is that?" (pictures to follow)

The goal is the brakes, rotors and Brembo calipers installed by 3/11/16. Wheels are still 4 weeks from arrival, at least. And I have not even ordered the new Nitto 555G2s.

And then there is the total cost for a first-time brake design. Do you know what CnC machine time runs,......, per week?

[lifespeed]

I have asked KC to hold off installing the brake booster until after we perform several 0-60 stops (record distance). Then, install the brake booster and re-test.

Ideally, it would be great to perform brake tests (no booster) alongside lifespeed with his TCE 15 Aero 6 kit.

This would be interesting. Still not sure how to easily measure distance, but we can figure something out.

For the record I have 14" X 1.25" rotors in the front, not 15". They seem to be more than enough, but of course I haven't compared to 15" rotors.

[Lowndex]

This would be interesting. Still not sure how to easily measure distance, but we can figure something out.

For the record I have 14" X 1.25" rotors in the front, not 15". They seem to be more than enough, but of course I haven't compared to 15" rotors.

Then you need to buy new rotors!

We can ask a member to stand at 110 feet from our starting point. Whomever does not run over our volunteer wins! :beer:

[tbone]

No, the brakes are not installed. The custom brake hats are being cut out of blocks of billet aluminum. A few revisions will be required until they are deemed ready for install. I have seen a video of the CnC cutting my new brake hats - very cool. The brake hates look like beautiful big pieces of jewelry! People may look past my Brembo monoblock calipers and Forgeline wheels asking, "what is that?" (pictures to follow)

The goal is the brakes, rotors and Brembo calipers installed by 3/11/16. Wheels are still 4 weeks from arrival, at least. And I have not even ordered the new Nitto 555G2s.

And then there is the total cost for a first-time brake design. Do you know what CnC machine time runs,......, per week?

Wow. These really are "supercar" brakes!
Brake effort is the area I am primarily interested in. A subjective opinion by 2 or more people would be optimal.
Good luck with everything. Pics!!

[lifespeed]

Then you need to buy new rotors!

We can ask a member to stand at 110 feet from our starting point. Whomever does not run over our volunteer wins! :beer:

Having used this brake setup for a few months now I would be really surprised if 15" rotors provide an advantage. Measurements don't lie, we'll see.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

If you're doing aftermarket wheels, might as well do 15" rotors.

[lifespeed]

If you're doing aftermarket wheels, might as well do 15".

If it improves braking, sure. If it just adds unsprung weight? At some point increasing rotor diameter won't continue to improve braking. So comparing the two cars stopping distances will be interesting.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

True. Increasing the effective radius is directly proportional to the braking torque though.

Maybe not noticeable, but looks better. Are you able to use your stock MM wheels with spacers on your 14" kit otherwise?

[lifespeed]

True. Increasing the effective radius is directly proportional to the braking torque though.

Yes, but increasing brake torque does not continue to decrease stopping distance. It is a little more complicated. More brake torque results in better modulation which provides the control to decelerate at the threshold of traction. Once you have good enough torque modulation and control to threshold brake, more brake torque won't make the tires stick any better.

Also important is balance, the rears need to contribute as much as possible without locking before the fronts.

I don't know for sure that increasing to 15" rotors isn't helpful, merely suspect it based on my experiences so far. We should be able to find out for sure in the next couple months.


Maybe not noticeable, but looks better. Are you able to use your stock MM wheels with spacers on your 14" kit otherwise?

I did not try this as I did not have the spacers required. Likely stock wheels would fit using a thicker spacer, but the offset would decrease changing the scrub radius. You could put the offset back at 50mm by widening the wheel 2X the spacer thickness. All that effort and you still have an 18" wheel that needs tall profile tires to reach the appropriate outside diameter. The 20" wheels and low-profile tires work so well I have no doubt it was the right choice.

[Lowndex]

Having used this brake setup for a few months now I would be really surprised if 15" rotors provide an advantage. Measurements don't lie, we'll see.

I will be happy if I stop slightly slower than you. Slightly! But I doubt that will happen. After we drive our own cars and measure stopping distance, I will ask you drive my ride (not me in yours; just you in mine) to confirm the test results (different driver helps qualify test results).

[massacre]

Just saw this thread.
I have a Hydrobooster installed in my car, has been for about 10 years. I installed it when I installed my 5.4 DOHC engine because it was basically touching the stock vacuum booster. I made custom lines, used a mustang booster with a custom mounting plate, and an '03-'04 Cobra P/S cooler. I did have to trim the push rod a little but other than that it bolted up fine to my stock pedal. The P/S pump needed some mods and special fittings everywhere but when I fired her up it didn't leak a drop.

[massacre]

Also since we are on the subject of Hydratech, I did call them when planning my swap. They were extremely helpful and almost all the fittings I bought, worked! lol

I was also able to "clock" the booster about 60 degrees or so clockwise, allowing the valve cover to be removed without removing the booster. This is exclusive to my car only, some Mustang guys expressed interest in a kit, maybe that's an avenue to explore.
But the hardest part was making the mounting bracket for the firewall. The rest was tough too, trying to find oil resistant hose that could withstand the pressure. I ended up with nitrile lines and Aeroquip fittings.
Any questions feel free to PM me

[tbone]

How well does it work?

[massacre]

Works fine but I also deleted ABS.
MM owners don't have to delete the ABS at all, but my car is a '93 and the ABS on those cars totally blows. The hydrobooster and the old style ABS do not get along at all. Reason being is the "traction assist" on those cars pulsed the ABS any time the wheels broke loose.
Obviously you can see those two things being at odds with each other lol.
The new style traction control/ABS system is light years more advanced and does not pose any problems that I know of.
Hydroboosters are not new technology - every Cobra/Mach1/ standard trans GT etc has one it's just a matter of making it work in a different package.

[massacre]

In case you haven't seen these, they are on other sites though
This is before the ABS delete

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/UGep6A.jpg

This is right after I finished the mounting plate

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/I5PUM9.jpg

This pic was from when I could only find the correct size and type of hose in blue for the return line from booster and cooler, teed into the reservoir inlet

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/jI9VmI.jpg

[massacre]

Look how much room

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/405/img2065dj.jpg

Here I finally found the correct hose in black lol

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/600/getattachmentaspxur.jpg

I have since replaced this master cylinder with one that has the fittings on the opposite side, facing away from the motor and making even more room

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/Ai6UVR.jpg

[justbob]

Very clean and tidy set up! [emoji1303]


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[tbone]

Very nice! I want!

[Lowndex]

Very nice! I want!

Your calls to Jim at Hydratech helped show interest beyond one order. Nine Marauder owners have asked for a unit. Congratulations to us all.

[tbone]

That is freakin' awesome! I would place my order right now, but I'm just starting a new job with New York Life as an agent, all commission, so I have to watch my expenditures until things get rolling. The price is a bit more than I was hoping for, but you pay for quality!

Kudos to fastblackmerc for the link!

Anyone need life, long term care insurance or financial planning give me a holler!

[Lowndex]

Wait for my installation and experience. I will share my and lifespeed's impressions of the brake booster.

[massacre]

For the record I used a Mustang GT booster and P/S pump, pretty cheap.
I did this like 10 years ago so this is nothing new, another Panther "first" for massacre.

MM should be the same, only difference is MM is rack & pinion my car has a steering box.
Anyone who is mechanically inclined can figure out how to make this work, again it was the only way the 5.4 DOHC would fit and still have room on either side.

Edit: also make sure to use a good P/S cooler, the MM cooler should be ok. I used an '03 Cobra cooler from a buddy that went with manual brakes, my '93 didn't come with a cooler so I added one. Lots more heat with the hydrobooster so a cooler becomes more important.

[justbob]

For the record I used a Mustang GT booster and P/S pump, pretty cheap.
I did this like 10 years ago so this is nothing new, another Panther "first" for massacre.

MM should be the same, only difference is MM is rack & pinion my car has a steering box.
Anyone who is mechanically inclined can figure out how to make this work, again it was the only way the 5.4 DOHC would fit and still have room on either side.

Edit: also make sure to use a good P/S cooler, the MM cooler should be ok. I used an '03 Cobra cooler from a buddy that went with manual brakes, my '93 didn't come with a cooler so I added one. Lots more heat with the hydrobooster so a cooler becomes more important.


I'm glad you mentioned that as it reminded me that I ditched the P/S cooler a year ago..


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[massacre]

I'm glad you mentioned that as it reminded me that I ditched the P/S cooler a year ago..

N/P :beer:

[tbone]

For the record I used a Mustang GT booster and P/S pump, pretty cheap.
I did this like 10 years ago so this is nothing new, another Panther "first" for massacre.


Where were you when I was getting "massacred" for daring to bring up the possibilities of using a hydroboost on our cars?

[massacre]

Where were you when I was getting "massacred" for daring to bring up the possibilities of using a hydroboost on our cars?

I went through that too
Don't let naysayers get in your head, it will mess you up every time.

Check out this thread from like 7 years ago.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51585

I don't really come here too often, I don't build cars for Internet glory.

[tbone]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, it was rather disconcerting.

I can't wait to hear all the success stories with this mod!

I'm interested in knowing all the people that purchased a unit....

[massacre]

After reading this entire thread, I believe I can give better feedback now- knowing what you guys are after.

I only installed this system to fit a bigger motor, not to improve the brakes. I already had the TCE braided brake lines and this is also with brand new 1-piece nicopp brake lines and brand new stock calipers and rotors.
I had never had a problem stopping my car with the 4.6, even with the little '93 brakes. Maybe the Aeros being lighter helps? But either way I was not looking to upgrade the brake system over stock, since the stock system has always worked fine for me.

The booster works just fine, the pedal is definitely a little softer than before. I think I may go to a bigger bore master cylinder, trouble is finding one that will fit.
But for a thousand bucks? I don't think it improved the brakes that much to spend that much money on it, when you could piece together your own booster for less than 1/2 that.
A thousand bucks is a heaton and some swap brackets lol.

But for the MM owner who has everything, I gotta say Hydratech stuff looks awesome. Their billet mounting plates and hardware is really first class stuff. With my car I decided to stay with the theme and just make it look factory.

BTW Jim from Hydratech was the guy I emailed all those years ago. I thought he was going to laugh at me but he was totally helpful! He recommended some fittings that worked great, I bet I still have the empty boxes somewhere to get part #s I'll check. Obviously there was no interest in making a kit for a group buy at that time lol.

The P/S pump fitting should be the same, and the booster supply and return fittings should be the same. The only difference is MM is rack and pinion, my steering box took a regular flared line/fitting, I suspect the steering rack to be different fittings than mine. But other than that I bet all the other fittings are the same.

BTW for those unfamiliar, here is a flow chart showing which lines need to be added and where. This is from Factory Five forum, shows some fitting part #s but not Hydratech parts.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/921/ShKfmi.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plShKfmij)

obviously the Hydratech website has pics too

[MyBlackBeasts]

Where were you when I was getting "massacred" for daring to bring up the possibilities of using a hydroboost on our cars?

Don't be dissuaded. albeit HB is an old technology, it is VASTLY superior to VB. The ONLY reason OEM does not use it more commonly is that it costs more $$$.

If able, I'd only have HB on any vehicle I owned.

Go for it Tbone!

[massacre]

Go for it Tbone!

I am the poster child for not letting naysayers get you down.
That old thread I posted is proof, there is plenty more proof if you ask around.
Just about everything I did to my car, I was told by the Panther community that it was either impossible or unnecessary and therefore stupid.

It wasn't just the cv people either, it was just as bad on this site and the cliques here were just as bad.
The irony is that I was degreeing cams and did a hydroboost swap 10 years ago, while everyone was busy telling me how stupid it was.
Now here I am giving advice about these very subjects 10 years later. Where were the open minds then?
All of a sudden hydroboost brakes are the best thing ever, where was my support back then?
I just find the whole thing pretty funny, good luck to all. Any questions feel free to pm me.

[Zack]

The best brake mod I've ever done to any car is on my 59 Cadillac.
I swapped in a Booster/Master from a 79 Pontiac Parisienne. The car stops so good with 4 wheel drum brakes that it's almost unbelievable.
The bore size on that master is 1 1/8"
The Marauder Bore is 1"

[massacre]

I am using a V6 Mustang master 1" bore. I have my eye out for something bigger.

[Lowndex]

According to Jim at Hydratech, the kit I ordered many weeks ago will ship on 4/25/16. Said kit was modified to fit he 2003-2004 Mercury Marauder - I am guessing a mounting plate was built. Beyond that, I am not sure what else was designed. I will ask and share what I learn.

[tbone]

He told me it was the mounting plate they were working on as well. I don't see how it can take so long, but I'm not an engineer, so.....who knows?

[Lowndex]

The Hydratech brake booster unit has been installed:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/KxG5Qy.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plKxG5Qyj)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/924/oAOR2v.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pooAOR2vj)

[justbob]

Shiny.


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[tbone]

Love it. :beer:

[Lowndex]

When I fly through the windshield because I forgot my seatbelt, you can buy mine slightly used.

[lji372]

Dibs on floor mats!

[03blackvegas]

You will probably have the best stopping Marauder around now.

[Lowndex]

Dibs on floor mats!

Good one. :)

[lji372]

You will probably have the best stopping Marauder around now.

i think any dtr with stock brakes would beat it :lol:

[03blackvegas]

i think any dtr with stock brakes would beat it :lol:

Good point, Fred Flintstone drove a DTR so he could just stick he's feet out and stop the darn thing.

[Lowndex]

i think any dtr with stock brakes would beat it :lol:

You are an idiot! :)