Cam question

[Louisianimal]

I have a chance to buy oem cams from a 2003 Mach 1. I wanted to know what's the benefits of those cams vs oem marauder cams besides Goin with a blower in the future. Is it even worth buying? :help:

[rauder88]

The cams from the Mach 1 are the same as ours. IF you wanted a small cheap upgrade you could search for a set of 96-98 cobra cams, (intakes are different, exhaust cams are the same)

[Louisianimal]

The cams from the Mach 1 are the same as ours. IF you wanted a small cheap upgrade you could search for a set of 96-98 cobra cams, (intakes are different, exhaust cams are the same)

Would they be install and go or require being degreed? Lots of work or as simple as removing cams and install.

[RubberCtyRauder]

They need degreed

[Louisianimal]

I found a set of cobra cams for 100. Good deal?

[rauder88]

Would they be install and go or require being degreed? Lots of work or as simple as removing cams and install.

To get the full benefit you would need to degree them.


I found a set of cobra cams for 100. Good deal?

Are they 96-98 Cobra cams? Yes $100 is a good deal. Usually sell for $200-$250
99-01 Cobra cams were slightly different.
03-04 Cobra, Marauder and I believe Aviator cams are all the same.

Do you need new cams? Or just looking to improve?

[Louisianimal]

To get the full benefit you would need to degree them.



Are they 96-98 Cobra cams? Yes $100 is a good deal. Usually sell for $200-$250
99-01 Cobra cams were slightly different.
03-04 Cobra, Marauder and I believe Aviator cams are all the same.

Do you need new cams? Or just looking to improve?

Just looking to improve. But it's a 2003 cobra with 29k.

[rauder88]

Just looking to improve. But it's a 2003 cobra with 29k.

Lower mileage wouldn't be bad, but if you don't have any issues I wouldn't bother they are the same cams. Best bang for your buck on cams would be the 96-98 cobra cams, you can pick up 20+HP to the wheels with them degreed. You can gain more with other cams, but Stock cams can take you just about everywhere you want power wise, aftermarket cams will give you that extra inch.

[MOTOWN]

The whole cams thing is a total waste of money on a Marauder unless you have a set of 98 Cobra intake cams you can install , and degree your self otherwise the labor to install , and degree will diminish the slight gain.

[Gerry24]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Seneca]

The whole cams thing is a total waste of money on a Marauder unless you have a set of 98 Cobra intake cams you can install , and degree your self otherwise the labor to install , and degree will diminish the slight gain.
Truth!! Degreeing cams. If u have to purchase the tools for the job isn't super cheap either..

[WPG_Merc]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[martyo]

:popcorn::popcorn:

This fellow would know.

[Jeronimojc]

Truth!! Degreeing cams. If u have to purchase the tools for the job isn't super cheap either..

I agree Cobra 98 would be a cheap way to go, but you better degree the cams. You'll need some tools and cam gears.

I bought a HF Dial Indicator (I'd be happy to sell) and printed my own degreeing wheel.

[FordNut]

Took me 2 days to degree my cams. Lots of trial and error.

[Louisianimal]

Thanks for all the info and responses. :beer:

[justbob]

After you buy cams, adjustable sprockets, and heavy duty springs the tools don't seem like much at all. [emoji6]


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[FordNut]

After you buy cams, adjustable sprockets, and heavy duty springs the tools don't seem like much at all. [emoji6]


I used a file on the OEM sprockets and ARP bolts instead of adjustable sprockets. The adjustable sprockets would have probably saved me some time.

[justbob]

I used a file on the OEM sprockets and ARP bolts instead of adjustable sprockets. The adjustable sprockets would have probably saved me some time.


I've been thinking about putting my cams back in. If I do then I'm going straight to hex adjust. The simple cloyes adjustable gears stumped me into a big headache.. I just want my sound back, really don't give a hoot about more power, but I do want them properly set up this time.


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[massacre]

I used a file on the OEM sprockets and ARP bolts instead of adjustable sprockets. The adjustable sprockets would have probably saved me some time.

A file? What kind of file cuts hardened steel?
I have cut many modular Ford keyways, not a single one would cut with a file.
They are hardened and need an angle grinder or similar.

Maybe you have special files?

[RubberCtyRauder]

Diamond file cuts hardened steel, but they are small and usually are rated in microns..I have some in my toolboxes at work.

[Louisianimal]

Would this kit work? http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160302/363d902ac92f1373db7609ab810abc a9.jpg

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[massacre]

Diamond file cuts hardened steel, but they are small and usually are rated in microns..I have some in my toolboxes at work.

Yes, I have diamond files too. They are small and would take days to cut even a 1/32 off of an induction hardened cam gear.

Try it for yourself if you think I am FOS.

I'm just glad that the days of grinding keyways are over! Thankfully there are adjustable gears now that take care of all that. It used to take days or weeks to degree cams properly by the old method. Now I can do a 4v in a couple hours.

:banana2:

[RubberCtyRauder]

Yes, I have diamond files too. They are small and would take days to cut even a 1/32 off of an induction hardened cam gear.

Try it for yourself if you think I am FOS.

I'm just glad that the days of grinding keyways are over! Thankfully there are adjustable gears now that take care of all that. It used to take days or weeks to degree cams properly by the old method. Now I can do a 4v in a couple hours.

:banana2:

I was agreeing, diamond files are for small, micron removal of material..I use them in moldmaking/repairs..I laser weld imperfections in injection mold features with .007 -.012 diameter wire and often use diamond file to bring it back to original.

[massacre]

Would this kit work? http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160302/363d902ac92f1373db7609ab810abc a9.jpg


Will it work? Theoretically yes. But with a 9" wheel (tiny) and probably Chinese dial indicator, etc. I wouldn't trust the readings.

I went the cheap route at first, set everything up and could not get accurate, repeatable readings. Drove me crazy.
Once I got some quality stuff like Starrett dial indicator and proper 18" degree wheel, then things turned around completely and now I get accurate, repeatable results.
Also the modulars require more than that kit, you will need a solid adjustable lash adjuster so you can set zero lash, I bought mine from modularspeed.com a million years ago. It is a follower with the oil hole drilled bigger so that a small screwdriver can be placed inside to elevate the lash adjuster. Proper crank socket is a must, as well. A piston stop is necessary to find TDC, I use the valve compressor tools also. Cam lock tools are handy for the OEM cams, the aftermarket stuff not so much. I actually made a tool for the Bullet cams in my buddy's drag car, he took the measurements and I made the tool. It worked great hahaha!

[massacre]

Pic of solid adjustable lash adjuster/follower with enlarged hole I bought from modularspeed.com a million years ago:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/198/img2320hx.jpg

If you look up modular speed now, it brings you to the MMR website, which is incredibly ironic, since MMR stole some of their stuff from modularspeed. I am not a fan of MMR, their products are needlessly expensive and like I mentioned, the blatant stealing of ideas,but I digress.
Here's a pic of that custom cam tool we made

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/821/photo0019ok.jpg
BTW those valve springs were killer OMFG
And people wonder why I remove the followers lol


I was agreeing, diamond files are for small, micron removal of material..I use them in moldmaking/repairs..I laser weld imperfections in injection mold features with .007 -.012 diameter wire and often use diamond file to bring it back to original.

Wow, that is some close tolerance work. Definitely way beyond anything I am doing, good for you! :beer:

[RubberCtyRauder]

Sorry to the OP for thread hijacking

pic of welding back of 1 of 16 insert blocks as this one was easier to grind the front and weld the back and grind to size then try to repair the front. still had to maintain size of block. The small wire by pencil is 0.012 welding wire. It is all done thru microscope. You don't weld large areas with laser and this block is too small for tig as it would make it too hot since it is so small.

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu92/mdnos/laser_zpske1qjgik.jpg

[Jeronimojc]

Will it work? Theoretically yes. But with a 9" wheel (tiny) and probably Chinese dial indicator, etc. I wouldn't trust the readings.

I went the cheap route at first, set everything up and could not get accurate, repeatable readings. Drove me crazy.
Once I got some quality stuff like Starrett dial indicator and proper 18" degree wheel, then things turned around completely and now I get accurate, repeatable results.
Also the modulars require more than that kit, you will need a solid adjustable lash adjuster so you can set zero lash, I bought mine from modularspeed.com a million years ago. It is a follower with the oil hole drilled bigger so that a small screwdriver can be placed inside to elevate the lash adjuster. Proper crank socket is a must, as well. A piston stop is necessary to find TDC, I use the valve compressor tools also. Cam lock tools are handy for the OEM cams, the aftermarket stuff not so much. I actually made a tool for the Bullet cams in my buddy's drag car, he took the measurements and I made the tool. It worked great hahaha!

These folks know what they are talking about. I went the cheap route and made it work. I had read a large degree wheel was a must so I PRINTED a large one and done. The HF dial indicator served me perfectly well. If you go this route buy the one with the vice grip (Did I mention I have one and I am willing to sell it). I also bought a SOLID lash adjuster. (I can sell if interested). I didn't use a piston stop. I used the dial indicator and a long attachment to get into the valve to measure Top Dead Center (If you do this measure it both ways). Some auto-parts stores will let you borrow a spring compression tool. Last, I didn't use a crank socket. A crank socket would have been nice, but I made it work without one. I was able to get repeatable results.

These adjustable gears will cost about $170, depending on how far you are adjusting. I used:
2 ea CLO-P9139 Cloyes Shaft keys
2 ea CLO-S790HP9 Cloyes Gear - Cloyes Timing Camshaft Sprockets
1 ea TFS-51800505 Trickflow Specialties TFS Adjustable Crank Sprocket

If my notes are correct, I ended up with an Intake Centerline at 113 and the Exhaust Centerline at 112. Intake Duration is 204. I wasn't going for 'sound', but rather slightly improved performance since I planned to supercharge.

I took me more than a couple of days because I was learning everything and I was enjoying taking my time and doing things right. My engine was out of the car so it was easy to do the work.

[jass_BH]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160302/de83d7d45eb0c4c4ae0567b4e66ef5 4b.jpg


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[massacre]

Intake @ 113 and exhaust @ 112?

Not much of a change, stock is 114/114

[Jeronimojc]

Intake @ 113 and exhaust @ 112?

Not much of a change, stock is 114/114

Stock values are typically all over the place. I believe my intake was 118. I was really going after the longer Cobra 98 duration. I should clarify I have a stroker with 9:6.1CR.

[massacre]

Yup, they sure are all over the place stock. That is why these motors need cam degreeing from the factory, a "buildup of machine tolerances" is what causes it. At least that is Ford's explanation for it lol.

[IndyMerc]

are the stock cams different from sloppy production or setup? What are you guys referring to exactly with the cams when you say all over the place?

[musclemerc]

Stock cams aren’t degreed from the factory. The factory cams are dropped in dot-to-dot