View Full Version : Traction Action..................
mungce
05-18-2004, 03:17 AM
I have a BIG problem with off the line traction. I am using OEM BFG's and when I start off the line, OFT, my MM just smokes, then about 2 feet down I'm every which way but straight ! Anyone have any tips as to getting a basicly stock 300A off the line without getting all squirley ??
Jim Williams
Ft. Worth, Tx
BillyGman
05-18-2004, 03:50 AM
must be those Bob White bumper inserts, cuz when my MM was N/A and had 4.10's I never got my tires to even spin w/out using the brake pedal, let alone smoke. So I don't know weather or not to take you seriously, but if you are, then go w/Pirelli P-zero tires. they're really expensive though from what I've seen. There's always the rim widening service, and Nitto P305/45/18 Drag radials, but that's another expensive option.
CRUZTAKER
05-18-2004, 04:57 AM
I have the same problem. The wheel spin is ridiculous at some tracks. The new M&Z control arms have solved the 'squirly' action, but w/o decent tires, it will always spin on the green tracks.
I have a set of worn 245 pirreli's that I need to get mounted for track applications, but just haven't got around to it.
woaface
05-18-2004, 06:03 AM
Michelin also makes some nice rubber and Trilogy Motorsports (vendor on the site) offers a rim-widning service so you can get 305 tires in the rear.
sailsmen
05-18-2004, 06:09 AM
25psi in the rears and do not brake torque over 1,000rpm.
Jim, are you driving through the water box before you stage? Maybe dry tires/track would be better? I WISH my MM would smoke the tires like that.
mungce
05-18-2004, 07:12 AM
I would like to thank each and every one of you who have replied to my post, all with good advice. I don't face the same traction problems that you S/Ced guys have, and have found the the BFGs are pretty good tires, all in all. I did have to replace the rear ones at 19K....something about a heavy right foot I would imagine.
I have learned more about my car from you guys and this site than I can with a shop manual. Nothing better than experience, and I thank you for sharing yours with me.
I have yet to decide what to do about this, but I am sure that I will figure it out, with your help and a good credit card !!!
Jim Williams
mungce
05-18-2004, 07:27 AM
Ross,
Come on man, I may goof anroud a bit, but I'm not trying to make a good run with water anround. I don't even like rain !!
Yes, I'm serious about this.
Jim Williams
sailsmen
05-18-2004, 07:32 AM
I have had traction issues at the track when I had the same set up as you, usually the track rectified it rather quickly.
I have also had traction issues w/ my current set up that took the track a while to correct.
One nite the track had a dew problem that caused the back end to want to come around on the 1-2 shift and required a minor although time consuming steering correction, short of a heated track there was not much the track could do about it.
mungce
05-18-2004, 07:35 AM
Thanks to all of you who responded to my questions ! I don't know exactly what I will do about this, as I don't face the same problems that you S/Ced guys have, and can't afford to experiment with a bunch of different tire brands. I have yet to take my car to a " real " track, just run on the " dry " Texas streets. Prehaps Mack and Zacks control arms would be a big help, but I'm not sure about the install. I will look it up on this great web site.
Jim Williams
I have yet to take my car to a " real " track, just run on the " dry " Texas streets.Jim Williams
That was my misunderstanding, Jim. I thought you meant you were running on the track. That's why I asked about driving through the water box before you staged.
I'm still running the OEM BFG's, and experienced serious slippage after about 8,000 miles. The BFG's wore unevenly in spite of keeping the psi at the suggested level, (44 I think.) My car guy suggested running a lower psi, like 30-35 and its been performing much better. I saw someone had suggested 25 psi for the rear, so maybe its a tire issue. When the car was new, I couldn't chirp the tires even once.
CRUZTAKER
05-18-2004, 10:03 AM
The suggestion, 25 psi for rear, is for track applications only. I carry a mini tank and refill to 32 after each evening at the track.
Smokie
05-18-2004, 10:26 AM
Thanks to all of you who responded to my questions ! I don't know exactly what I will do about this, as I don't face the same problems that you S/Ced guys have, and can't afford to experiment with a bunch of different tire brands. I have yet to take my car to a " real " track, just run on the " dry " Texas streets. Prehaps Mack and Zacks control arms would be a big help, but I'm not sure about the install. I will look it up on this great web site.
Jim WilliamsJim, I do take you seriously, I have ocassionally experienced some serious lack of traction on dry pavement; (not always) and I only have a reflash. Some members here have witnessed my car have a total loss of traction.
I believe the OEM tires after they develop the excessive wear in the middle no longer grip as well on hard takeoffs
I wish to emphasize that in normal every day driving I rarely have a traction problem, but there have been a few street driving hard starts (zero brake torque) were the rear broke free and if I do not let off the gas it would have shifted into 2nd gear while the the car is barely moving. It may be difficult for some to believe this, but it happens to be true, I believe the uneven wear at the rear tires is partly to blame. Javier.
BillyGman
05-18-2004, 11:05 AM
I think that you should switch to better tires first before doing anything else. I'm not knocking any of the two different control arms that are sold on this board, I'm simply saying that you can have the best control arms in the world, but they won't help much IF your tires are lousy. The tire issue should be dealt with first.
SergntMac
05-18-2004, 01:38 PM
I think that you shouls witch to better tires first before doing anything else. I'm not knocking any of the two different control arms that are sold on this board, I'm simply saying that you can have the best control arms in the world, but they won't help much IF your tires are lousy. The tire issue should be dealt with first.
I agree. Improving suspension components when tire stick is absent won't produce the desired effect. Find the best traction you can get, and deal with the control issues after that. Slipage under power it one thing, fishtailing undr power is something else.
About tire pressure. I got my my best performance on the street with Pirelli tires, good stick at 40 PSI. At the strip, I got better stick at 25 PSI, but that's a track PSI, not safe for the street. However, remember good stick is also short life span. Pirellis will live 12-15K before wearing to legally bald, but you'll have a set of great "home made" cheater slicks left over you can run on the track only. You can get your money's worth, I have.
I'm not a BFG fan, and the OEM compound was probably not the best tire for our MMs. I ran my BFGs at 36 PSI. However, back when the car was in design, there wasn't a lot to pick from in 18" sizes. It's a bit different today thanks to the custom wheel market, and when it's time for replacement tires, look around, shop for the improvements. Good tires are pricey, but you have to consider longevity vs. adhesion with such a heavy car. Spinning you tires with ease also means a loss of stopping adhesion...IMHO.
valleyman
05-18-2004, 03:22 PM
Prehaps Mack and Zacks control arms would be a big help, but I'm not sure about the install. I will look it up on this great web site.
Jim Williams[/QUOTE]
The install is NOT difficult. I have minimal mechanical ability and was able to do it. You'll need the ordinary hand tools plus a torque wrench and a vise.
HwyCruiser
05-18-2004, 04:09 PM
I'm having the same problem with wear on the original BFGs (25k miles). The center tread is almost gone on the rear and the front insides are completely round. I had fun getting them to this point, but now I've got to pay up.
The new found ability to spin is fun, but having to tenderfoot it on wet pavement stinks... decisions, decisions.
- JD
woaface
05-18-2004, 04:48 PM
I agree. Improving suspension components when tire stick is absent won't produce the desired effect. Find the best traction you can get, and deal with the control issues after that. Slipage under power it one thing, fishtailing undr power is something else.
About tire pressure. I got my my best performance on the street with Pirelli tires, good stick at 40 PSI. At the strip, I got better stick at 25 PSI, but that's a track PSI, not safe for the street. However, remember good stick is also short life span. Pirellis will live 12-15K before wearing to legally bald, but you'll have a set of great "home made" cheater slicks left over you can run on the track only. You can get your money's worth, I have.
I'm not a BFG fan, and the OEM compound was probably not the best tire for our MMs. I ran my BFGs at 36 PSI. However, back when the car was in design, there wasn't a lot to pick from in 18" sizes. It's a bit different today thanks to the custom wheel market, and when it's time for replacement tires, look around, shop for the improvements. Good tires are pricey, but you have to consider longevity vs. adhesion with such a heavy car. Spinning you tires with ease also means a loss of stopping adhesion...IMHO.
That being said, I have to be EXTREMELY careful in the rain on start. If I don't roll and every so slowly go into the gas, my tires spin. Is that the differential or the 225 tires? I like the Yokohama's but if there's something better for under $110 I'll take it.
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