cooling mod second thought?

[darebren]

anyone think a bigger better water pump would solve the cooling needs of the 7/8 cylinders? rather than run extra hoses, maybe a bigger better water pump would do more good? I don't know what they cost yet though..

[sailsmen]

The volume of water is not the issue. It's that the water is trapped and hot water is circulated.

[Logan]

What he said. Volume isn't relevant. Hot water is. :)

[Cobra25]

anyone think a bigger better water pump would solve the cooling needs of the 7/8 cylinders? rather than run extra hoses, maybe a bigger better water pump would do more good? I don't know what they cost yet though.. Just my 2 cents, but wouldn't it be best if we did have a bigger better water pump and used Dennis Reinharts system both at the same time. I like that idea.

[cyclone03]

I THINK we have the mac-daddy water pump stock.
Logan don't the Lightening guys change over to the Cobra pump when they go to electric fans?

I know Baunderant used V10 pumps in the desert because of the clutch type fans they used.

[junehhan]

I believe the Cobra pump you are talking about is the unit that was actually used on the Cobra R that has lighter weight aluminum impeller design which reduces parasitic loss of about 5hp or so. If you go with a larger stock like water pump, that may also cost a few more hp by causing larger parasitic losses as well..............

[GordonB]

Greetings,
The other `cheap' thing we could try is the "water wetter". Don't remember who makes it -- maybe RedLine? The Vette guys have discussed and used at length on 5th gen Vettes with good results.
BTW, this does not solve the problem with lack of circulation in the 7/8 cylinders.
GordonB

[junehhan]

Greetings,
The other `cheap' thing we could try is the "water wetter". Don't remember who makes it -- maybe RedLine? The Vette guys have discussed and used at length on 5th gen Vettes with good results.
BTW, this does not solve the problem with lack of circulation in the 7/8 cylinders.
GordonB


Yeah, that's made by Redline. You can read about it on their website which is http://www.redlineoil.com

[hitchhiker]

Yeah, that's made by Redline. You can read about it on their website which is http://www.redlineoil.com (http://www.redlineoil.com/)
Link to WaterWetter Specifications Information:

http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/17.pdf

I decided to try a bottle of this...Any comments...?

Best Regards,

[SergntMac]

The other `cheap' thing we could try is the "water wetter". Don't remember who makes it -- maybe RedLine? The Vette guys have discussed and used at length on 5th gen Vettes with good results. BTW, this does not solve the problem with lack of circulation in the 7/8 cylinders. GordonB
This additive improves cooling, yes. I use it in both my OEM system and my supercharger heat exchanger. Neat stuff worth the money. However, the problem here is one of circulation, and no matter what fluids you use, no circulation means no cooling. Coolant standing in place is what you need to address.

[studio460]

Good to hear the positive reports about Redline's WaterWetter product. After reading the white paper, did anyone come to the conlusion that we can increase our heat trransfer by using say, a 30%-70% (or as little as 20%-80%, according to the paper) coolant-to-water ratio, rather than a 50%-50%, especially for those of us that live in moderate climates?

[FordNut]

My cooling mod observations:
Originally, the water temp gauge lined up with the upper edge of the 20 mph mark.

I changed from the OEM to the 180 degree 'stat and it moved slightly, to the lower edge of the 20 mph mark.

I had the DR cooling mod installed and the temp moved back up to the upper edge of the 20 mph mark. Probably now the temp is more evenly distributed instead of having hot spots at the back and cooler spots at the front (where the temp sensor is located). Just my theory here, no proof.

I added 1 bottle of water wetter and saw no change at the gauge. Added another bottle and still saw no change. Maybe it works but I can't prove it.

edit: spelling error corrected!

[studio460]

Hmmmmm . . . Interesting observations, FordNut. I'm about to do the same mod.

[LincMercLover]

A lot of the Mach guys are putting electric pumps on their cars. Not only will it pump out a little more volume of coolant (the faster that coolant gets in and out of the motor, the less it heats up IMO) and relieves an accessory from the crank. I don't think it's all that bad of an idea...

[TAF]

A lot of the Mach guys are putting electric pumps on their cars. Not only will it pump out a little more volume of coolant (the faster that coolant gets in and out of the motor, the less it heats up IMO) and relieves an accessory from the crank. I don't think it's all that bad of an idea...
Yep...and the real way to have this routed and efficiently done is on the way....

[Cobra25]

Good to hear the positive reports about Redline's WaterWetter product. After reading the white paper, did anyone come to the conlusion that we can increase our heat trransfer by using say, a 30%-70% (or as little as 20%-80%, according to the paper) coolant-to-water ratio, rather than a 50%-50%, especially for those of us that live in moderate climates? I used the Red Line Water Wetter Product in my Marauder ( 2 bottles) also and saw no change at all. So if it does work ,it is so small you can't notice it. I know Royle Purple makes a Water Wetter also,but I haven't tryed that one.

[SergntMac]

Originally, the water temp gauge lined up with the upper edge of the 20 mph mark...
You and I followed the same path, with one exception. I use the Davis CarChip EX to monitor the OBDII data. With the OEM stat, engine temps averaged 193 degrees during any OTR drive. With the 180 stat, cooling mod and water wetter additive, they average 175 degrees. It's a minor drop in temps, but at least it's one temp for the whole engine. For the hundred bucks in parts, the peace of mind is priceless.

[Ross]

Yep...and the real way to have this routed and efficiently done is on the way....


Todd, do you have more tricks up your sleeve? A cold air kit coming, and also a cooling mod? Please, inquiring minds want to know!

[darebren]

Todd, you have a better idea than the MD Motorsports cooling mod Dennis talks about? man, you are one busy beaver

[TAF]

Todd, you have a better idea than the MD Motorsports cooling mod Dennis talks about? man, you are one busy beaver
It's not my idea...but, from a group of experts.

[darebren]

It's not my idea...but, from a group of experts.

Todd, not THESE experts I hope!

[TAF]

:lol:

No...they seem to be an "expert" on some other kindof "mod"...

[junehhan]

Good to hear the positive reports about Redline's WaterWetter product. After reading the white paper, did anyone come to the conlusion that we can increase our heat trransfer by using say, a 30%-70% (or as little as 20%-80%, according to the paper) coolant-to-water ratio, rather than a 50%-50%, especially for those of us that live in moderate climates?

Actually, you can increase the heat transfer properties by increasing the amount of water vs. the amount of coolent in the mixture. However, the problem is that whenever you do that, you are reducing the anti-corrosive properties of the engine coolent. While engine coolent keeps the engine cooled, it also helps to prevent corrosion within the radiator and other parts. I personally would not go any lower than 40% coolent.

[MICA Racing]

My cooling mod observations:

I added 1 bottle of water wetter and saw no change at the gauge. Added another bottle and still saw no change. Maybe it works but I can't prove it.


You're observation makes sense. Regarding the WaterWetter, we run one bottle in pure distilled water in the F2000 car, and compared with the lowest temps we previously saw, the WaterWetter dropped the temps around 20 degrees F according to the dash (Pi Research System 2). But until you get the coolant away from the 7-8 cylinders and get it to the radiator, you're still going to see the same temps around those cylinders - the WaterWetter only improves the heat transfer properties of the coolant.

Michael Floyd

[FordNut]

I reckon if everything is doing what it's supposed to do, the thermostat is controlling the coolant temp. The water wetter should be helping reduce the temp of the metal parts such as heads and cylinders by improving the heat transfer to the coolant but wouldn't affect the temp reading since the thermostat regulates the waater temp. Then the cooling mod is helping to keep the temp the same everywhere and eliminate the hot spots so all the cylinders opeate the same.

[jaywish]

Hi Ford Nut,

The thermostat only regulates the minimum "operating" temp not the normal running temps which vary somewhat with circumstance.

Jay

[TripleTransAm]

Jay is correct, the operating temperature is controlled by whatever is cooling the coolant. In other words, if it wasn't for air circulating through the radiator, the coolant would overheat regardless of thermostat temp setting.

When the car is stationary, the coolant will heat up until the thermostat opens... then the coolant begins to circulate through the radiator where it *may* give up some heat through basic radiation to the surrounding cooler air, but not at a rate quick enough to control engine temps. The engine will overheat, unless a fan kicks in at a certain temp to control it and move some air through the rad. The PCM or simple temperature switch will shut off the fan if the coolant temp drops below a certain threshold...

On an older style engine with an engine-driven fan, the thermostat may close once temps drop below the operating temperature (since there's nothing to shut off the fan), which will then prevent coolant from being cooled by the constantly blowing fan across the rad. So with older style engines, one could say that the thermostat controlled minimum operating temperatures provided the radiator was of a sufficient cooling capacity... if the engine was generating more heat than the rad could dissipate, it would overheat.

With the car moving, the rad may cool the engine through the fact of the air being drawn through it, but the thermostat will close at some point to prevent over-cooling.


Because today's engines run electric fans controlled by the PCM, a simple change in thermostat won't address low speed or stationary temperatures, since the PCM will only kick in the fan when it feels things are too hot. PCM reprogramming will be necessary, allowing the fan(s) to kick in at a lower temperature instead of simply allowing the coolant to heat up to whatever stock value the PCM will allow.

[GreekGod]

One caution on low temp 'stats: Years ago I had a tech paper w/a graph of piston ring/cylinder wear on a gas V8 engine, I belive. It showed dramatically increased wear when changing to a 10 or 20 degree lower temp stat. than engine was designed to run at! Paper was written by Hastings [Piston rings] or else Muskegon [piston rings] and I sure wish I could find it again. I also understand NASCAR racers are now running very high coolant temps to increase power output.

[Ross]

One caution on low temp 'stats: Years ago I had a tech paper w/a graph of piston ring/cylinder wear on a gas V8 engine, I belive. It showed dramatically increased wear when changing to a 10 or 20 degree lower temp stat. than engine was designed to run at! Paper was written by Hastings [Piston rings] or else Muskegon [piston rings] and I sure wish I could find it again. I also understand NASCAR racers are now running very high coolant temps to increase power output.

NASCAR might be running hot to increase power, but remember, race cars don't have to worry about long life.

[studio460]

Todd, you have a better idea than the MD Motorsports cooling mod Dennis talks about? man, you are one busy beaver
Is the "MD Motorsports" cooling mod DIFFERENT or the SAME thing that I've just purchased and received from Dennis???

[jgc61sr2002]

GreekGod - Welcome aboard. :up:

[jspradii]

Is the "MD Motorsports" cooling mod DIFFERENT or the SAME thing that I've just purchased and received from Dennis???
I have Dennis' mod and use the Royal Purple Ice additive, and my temps have been 15 degrees lower than stock. My engine builder Ray Kittler, AMS Racing, www.amsracing.com (http://www.amsracing.com)) tells me I don't really need to consider an electric pump unless I am running over 800 hp on this small block. So far, he's never been wrong (he's been building and racing these things for 30+ years), so I'm going to hold off on the electric pump, for now..