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ahess77
05-19-2004, 02:07 PM
I dropped the trans last weekend to do J-Mod upgrades and add the PI torque converter. I was using the Ford shop manual released in July 2003. It is missing some minor info such as: there are 7 bolts, not 6, that retain the transmission to the engine, and if anyone has a grounding strap on their starter to the block please let me know because mine is missing.

In doing this I had some observations that may help you, or perhaps you can suggest a better way.

1. Transmission frame crossmember is press-fit into brackets welded to the longitudinal frame members. I just want to know what Ford engineer thought this was a good idea. I spend 1.5 hours trying to get the crossmember off. After I dislodged the free floating end spacers that prevent the bolts from bending the frame brackets I quit hitting it with a sledgehammer. There’s also a flange on both the frame brackets and the crossmember that has about a 1 inch gap, so I pried on this for a while until I had bent both flanges about 45 degrees and my prybar about 90 degrees. I finally ended up getting a log splitting wedge and driving it between the frame bracket and the crossmember on the top to force the crossmember down out of the bracket. Of course once one end was out the other end fell out and the whole thing landed on my leg. Let’s not forget, I don’t have a lift in my garage, I’m doing this laying on a crawler with the car up on jack stands.

2. Top two trans to engine bolts, the only way to do this is to lower the transmission about 3 inches in the back and use a 36” extension to reach the bolts from behind the transmission. I tried all kinds of swivels, gear wrenches, removed the plastic wheel wells, and thought about cutting some hoses, etc. until I finally figured this out. And again, what Ford engineer thought 13mm bolt heads were adequate for 100 ft-lbs of back-out torque? There’s plenty of room for 18mm bolt heads. I rounded off two of them, luckily not the top ones.

3. You would expect that the transmission would balance on the pan like all normal RWD transmissions. Apparently not. I’ve got a platform adaptor for my floor jack and I even cut a couple 2x4’s to fit longitudinally along the outside edge of the pan since Ford thinks there should be a 2” external dimple right in the middle of their pan (yea, yea, who cares if the pump sucks air or not.) So I get the last bolt out, the one the manual doesn’t tell you about, and the transmission decides to fall off the jack to the LH side. It doesn’t go far, the floor pan prevents it from rotating off the jack. But I gotta tell you when your laying on your back on a crawler under a car and a transmission starts falling toward you it’s somewhat surprising, or exciting, or wet-your-pants frightening, I haven’t decided which.


So anyway, I dropped of the transmission with my favorite shop today (Independent Transmission on 6 mi & telegraph if you live in Detroit), he said a couple of days and I’ll be ready to write my story on the woes of installation (doesn’t it get easier?)

Dr Caleb
05-19-2004, 02:53 PM
Thanks for the warning, and the chuckle. :)

Ross
05-19-2004, 03:09 PM
Now I know why I leave some jobs to the pros... :(

Zack
05-19-2004, 04:12 PM
Yes, the crossmember is a living terror to remove. Ive done it 4 times now with different cars and my own.
I used a wrench to remove the top trans bolts.
Other than that, your story is similar to mine!

cyclone03
05-19-2004, 04:48 PM
I was "this"close to making my own cross member after I got that mo fo out!

I was sure the top of the car would fall off when that thing finaly came out!It has to be attached to something else!

Glad I have a friend who lets me use his lift and stand-up trans jack.

The fun part for me was removing the starter and reinstalling it.(Note I have Kooks headers) you've been warned.

SergntMac
05-19-2004, 04:55 PM
Yes, the crossmember is a living terror to remove. I've done it 4 times now with different cars, and my own. I used a wrench to remove the top trans bolts. Other than that, your story is similar to mine!
From a JAFO's point of view, identical.

OTOH...I've also watched Brad Boxstanz unbolt my tranny crossmember in under 5 minutes. He did this in a car shop with a full height lift, powered tranny stands, and an array of power tools. ZipWhee here, zipWhee there, it's out. Seems to function like a "hinge"? In my humble observations...

Looks like our MMs are not meant to be owner/shade tree wrench friendly. You guys using creepers to crawl around under a 4400 pound car with as little as 6 inches off the deck...Well, this just gives me the creeps, K? Never catch me doing that, y'all got some b*lls for sure...

And, my admiration.

FordNut
05-19-2004, 06:16 PM
Even at Team Ford, they had to destroy my cross member to get it out and replaced it with a new one. Be aware that a replacement has to be special ordered from the factory and comes to you in bare, unpainted metal.

Krytin
05-19-2004, 06:25 PM
You should try a six speed Spicer in an Iternational 4900. My boss would only spring for the trans jack made in China - 250 lb gear box broke the "2000" lb jack & it landed next to me and the creeper (turned into a crapper)!

Glenn
05-19-2004, 06:27 PM
I guess $800 parts and install was a good price for the PI TC.

CRUZTAKER
05-19-2004, 07:01 PM
If that included the t/c, it sure is!!!

Mine will run me just over $800 for the PI t/c, parts, and install as well.

TAF
05-19-2004, 07:10 PM
Man...you guys are getting some good prices on T/Cs and installs :up:

martyo
05-19-2004, 07:48 PM
Man...you guys are getting some good prices on T/Cs and installs :up:

Todd: Rumor mill has it that you are getting a good deal on one too!

TAF
05-19-2004, 08:14 PM
Todd: Rumor mill has it that you are getting a good deal on one too!
Me? Naw....

Donny Carlson
05-19-2004, 08:57 PM
Me? Naw....
Good deals on PI T/C's? $800 installed? What is this, the Twilight Zone?:D

darebren
05-20-2004, 10:13 AM
yeah, no way on $800.00 fully installed. I've checked two major wrench shops, both estimate 3-5 hours for TC install at $80-$90 per hour... so it's more like $1,200 total I think...

ahess77
06-03-2004, 10:17 AM
OK, I get my transmission back with all the bullet-proof modifications and I get ready to install it last weekend. I get the thing balanced on the jack (FYI balance point is about 3 inches forward of pan center with torque converter). With some prodding I get the trans lined-up on the locator pins (engine has to tip rearward), get the tranmission housing bolts started and install the flex plate to torque converter bolts. To put in these bolts you turn the engine with the bolt on the front of the crank to line up the torque converter and flex plate. The trans is not yet tightened to the block, still have about 3/8 inch gap.

So now I proceed to tighten the trans to the block, reinstall the cross member, exhaust, driveshaft, etc. etc. etc, (during this time I have 2 TVs in the garage so I can watch the end of the Indy 500 and the start of the Lowes 600 races. What a disappointment the Indy race was.)

Now, before I put the flex plate access covers back on I decided I want to verify the torque converter to flex plate bolt torques since I never want to see them again. I go to turn the engine and it doesn’t budge. I thought, well, I’ll put the impact wrench on the crank pulley bolt to break it loose. Nope (but I did stop before I ruined the bolt.) So then I had a good idea to use the starter to turn the engine, luckily I wised up and decided that would probably bring bad results if the engine didn’t actually turn.

Now I'm thinking (as Jimmy Johnson is make a poor race by not letting anybody catch him and Jeff Gordon is driving like my grandmother in the snow), the engine turned before I tightened the trans bolts, let’s loosen them to see what happens. Loosen the trans mount to the crossmember and loosen the bolts and viola, the engine turns. OK, so the torque converter is probably not aligned on the splines and is sitting to far forward in vehicle. However, I can’t get the converter to wiggle onto the splines.

To end this story, I attempted to get that converter, still installed in the vehicle, onto the trans shaft without any success for the past 3 nights. Tomorrow the transmission shop is towing my Marauder to drop the trans and get it right. Moral of the story, don’t do it yourself unless there’s a vehicle hoist in your garage.

TAF
06-03-2004, 10:21 AM
yeah, no way on $800.00 fully installed. I've checked two major wrench shops, both estimate 3-5 hours for TC install at $80-$90 per hour... so it's more like $1,200 total I think...
Yep...there's a WHOLE group of us here in the A-T-L getting this deal ^^^.

Y'all need to move South! :up:

CRUZTAKER
06-03-2004, 05:32 PM
Tod's correct...and one does not need live in the south.:cool:

Darebren: There is a mechanic that came recommended from Dennis in Girard, Pa. He has done work for several Buckeye Marauders.
He did my gears, and he is doing my t/c.

One just needs to make the effort to find people, and ask the folks in your club for advice!

AHESS77: Thanks for the informative post, I'll save your portions for my installer to review.

cyclone03
06-03-2004, 06:10 PM
I know your having a shop fix you up,but when you tightened the torque converter bolts BEFORE the trans was 100% bolted up that was your Waterloo.

The only fix is to drop the trans again,reseat the converter,then reinstall.

This was a lessen I learned years ago,on my back under a Mustang.

merc406
06-08-2004, 12:55 PM
I know it's not to funny now but it will be in a few years what you went through Ahess, I did that a few times in the garage when I was in better shape in the 70's, only I had no jack with wheels, it was me with the tranny on my chest, a 63 Buick air cooled one, maybe weighed 90-100 lbs but after 30 minutes felt like 500 lbs. I got it up their ok but it was a b :censor: h.
Enjoyed the stories, bring's back memories of the home garage hot rodder in us. :D