Traction issues

[JimP]

I've been driving the MM more often and have gotten into a few situations which required quick robust straight line acceleration. I find it quickly becomes a pedal fest having to modulate the throttle a lot to keep tire spin down.

Without adding a set of drag radials (car has nice new Pirelli Scorpions 285/50' in the rear) and metco upper and lowers with watts link is there a way to improve traction. The 4.10 gears, 3,000 stall converter and procharger make it hard to hook well.

I'd like to lower the rear a bit, the car does squat a lot when accelerating but I find the rear end on the high side, the almost 29 inch tall tire doesn't help with that. It also seems the pinion snubbers on the these cars don't leave much room for adjustment, it looks as if one will quickly bottom out on them. I have no problem modifying or replacing them if that's suggested.

The metco UCA and LCA arms are also not adjustable so I don't want to upset what seems to be a good pinion angle, no vibrations as even very high speeds and rpm.

At about only 450 rwhp and just a tad over 400ft.lbs of torque I'm surprised by the lack of traction.
Any suggestions or am I ordering a set of drag radials for it?

[Spectragod]

4:10's and M/T ET Streets


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[merc]

4:10's and M/T ET Streets


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

Do not mix radial tires with bias ply tires for any reason. The results will not be favorable. :)

[RubberCtyRauder]

drag radials won't last long and are dangerous in wet/rain . and their cornering is less than street tires. just as info. maybe you are aware, maybe not.

[Spectragod]

Do not mix radial tires with bias ply tires for any reason. The results will not be favorable. :)



ET streets are not bias ply


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[Spectragod]

drag radials won't last long and are dangerous in wet/rain . and their cornering is less than street tires. just as info. maybe you are aware, maybe not.



Valid points, I guess I should have asked the application. If your not DD the car, and it's a toy, ET Streets, if a DD, then there are a whole lot of non sticky choices


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[Spectragod]

And that car will be a slug with a lower numerically gear and 29" tires


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[RubberCtyRauder]

And that car will be a slug with a lower numerically gear and 29" tires


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

why is it a DTR?

[Spectragod]

No, it's physics


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[merc]

ET streets are not bias ply


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.


The last time I purchased a pair they were bias ply. Now they have a new line of radial tires in there line up.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3754/overview/

ET Street R (The R stands for radial)
ET Street S/S
ET Street Radial Pro
ET Drag Radial
Street Comp
Sportsman S/T Radial
Sportsman S/R Radial

[Mr. Man]

You could lower the air pressure slightly depending on where you keep it now.

[J-MAN]

No, it's physics


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

Had to take one last night, the Mexican food didn't do it.

[RubberCtyRauder]

No, it's physics


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

I'm just funnin.

[justbob]

My street tune is only 601 and I have no WOT issues with bald Nitto 420's. You just need to learn how to feather that pedal better!


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[Spectragod]

I'm just funnin.

I knew that, my dog told me.....:woof:

[lji372]

My street tune is only 601 and I have no WOT issues with bald Nitto 420's. You just need to learn how to feather that pedal better!


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

what bob ^^^^^^ said ;)

[Marauderjack]

Pirelli tires (made in China) are known for very poor traction!!:argue:

My 2014 Mustang GT had Pirellis on it and half throttle in second gear was ridiculous!!:eek:

I have Kumhos on it now and it's 90% better so I'd suggest ditching those Pirellis ASAP before you hurt yourself!!:beer:

[Spectragod]

The last time I purchased a pair they were bias ply. Now they have a new line of radial tires in there line up.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3754/overview/

ET Street R (The R stands for radial)
ET Street S/S
ET Street Radial Pro
ET Drag Radial
Street Comp
Sportsman S/T Radial
Sportsman S/R Radial

They don't sell a bias ply DR for an 18" wheel, which was what I figured the OP was using.

[merc]

They don't sell a bias ply DR for an 18" wheel, which was what I figured the OP was using.

Mickey Thompson does make a 305/45/18 drag radial that would fit a 18" widen wheel. I thought you said ET Street. Only the ET Street R is a radial tire. This is what he needs in the link below.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3580/overview/

"If the tire don't stick you need to quit"

[Spectragod]

Mickey Thompson does make a 305/45/18 drag radial that would fit a 18" widen wheel. I thought you said ET Street. Only the ET Street R is a radial tire. This is what he needs in the link below.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3580/overview/

"If the tire don't stick you need to quit"



You are correct, I did say ET Street, I knew that it only came in a radial in 18", as I buy the 305/35-18's regularly. I may not have been super clear, sorry about that.


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[JimP]

Pirelli tires (made in China) are known for very poor traction!!:argue:

My 2014 Mustang GT had Pirellis on it and half throttle in second gear was ridiculous!!:eek:

I have Kumhos on it now and it's 90% better so I'd suggest ditching those Pirellis ASAP before you hurt yourself!!:beer:

I'm beginning to think it's the Pirelli tires. They ride nice, are very quiet but traction sucks with spirited driving. I doubt I'll do drag radials even though I don't really drive it in the rain, I have those on my GN (Nitto 555R presently).

I'll look into a Kumho or a Nitto, I had Nitto's on my Blue MM and was happy with them.

I also just adjusted the rear ride height about half a inch lower, car looks better to me now but those pinion snubbers, anyone ever cut them down just a bit, not much room between axle tubes and the snubbers now, I'm thinking they might bottom out when I hit a bump.

I also dropped the pressure to 28psi down from 32. We will see when I head out later. I think I have the pedal modulation down but will work on that too.

Thanks for the responses so far.

[RubberCtyRauder]

IMO. 28 psi way too low for rear tires, car is too heavy. it needs 36 psi to get full tread contact. you might not be getting center contact, as well all the weight is on the sidewalls and outer edge tread blocks

[Spectragod]

IMO. 28 psi way too low for rear tires, car is too heavy. it needs 36 psi to get full tread contact. you might not be fetting centdr contact as well all the weight is on the sidewalls and outer edge tread blocks



I think it would depend on the tire, I run 18-25 psi on the street, but that is with DR's


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[RubberCtyRauder]

i was meaning on a street tire, not drag radial. also which pirelli scorpion? is it a high mileage tire? as those have hard rubber compounds and dont hold traction well

[JimP]

Pirelli Scorpion Zero Asimmetrico, I'll try different tire pressures, it started to rain so road test will have to wait until tomorrow.

[Mr. Man]

My guess is since the Pirelli's you bought are a street truck tire your car may just be to powerful for them. Traction is rated AA, Temp A, Treadwear 300. If you want better traction your going to give up wear. Find a deserted backroad somewhere and practice your spirited launches til you find a combo that works consistently.

[justbob]

Swap your bump stops for shorter ones. Energy Suspension makes them and IIRC they are in stock at Advance. You just need to open the mounting hole one increment up in size. Super close, but E.S. Is SAE and factory is metric.


Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[hotford]

I use Nitto Drag radials and its a way batter all around tire vs the MT drag radial(305/45/18)

I have both and the nitto drives better in the rain and handles like production tire, the 60's ft arent as good as the MT but where do you do most of your driving....

I also run the nitto's around town at 22 which hooks up alot better than 32, when going on a trip i do bring up the tire pressure

The MT hands down will hook up better than any other drag radial and when on my merc i run them at 18 psi on the street, still can't mash the throttle but can leave alot more agressive.

[Spectragod]

I have both and the nitto drives better in the rain and handles like production tire, the 60's ft arent as good as the MT but where do you do most of your driving....





To answer that question....... They are a street tire for me, I definitely care about my light to light performance. I am probably the wrong guy to ask....... Jerry would be second worst.

Off topic..... You going to make it to Woodward this year?


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[hotford]

Off topic..... You going to make it to Woodward this year?

Yup gonna bring the shelby this time.......

[JimP]

OK fellas, it seems the slightly lower rear end and tire pressure at 34 psi has helped somewhat. I'll order shorter bump stops too as its definetly just touching over larger bumps.

For those 305 Nitto's I'll need a widened wheel so that may be a future project, The car is not DD but I drive it often and I'm running those Nittos in a 275/60 on my Buick and they work well. I've cut a best 1.60 sixty foot with them which isn't bad.

As for the Pirellis they were on the MM when I bought it, will burn em up a bit and maybe post a video here or there. The car sat and the tires feel hard even though they had maybe 300 miles on them.

The car is serving it's purpose very well and the 450 HP seems plenty for now. I'd also love to make it to Woodward, Hot ford and I live in the same Province but I'm about 8 hours away from Woodward. This is something my son would really enjoy so hope to also make it out.

[hotford]

Ya Road trip!!!!!!!!!

[crownvic97]

I wish I had traction issues! Lol

[daddyusmaximus]

I wish I had traction issues! Lol

I have a blast ever time I get on it in mine as she sits. I don't have traction issues either, but yeah, I'd like the extra 100+ hp the supercharger gives the OP. I'm old enough to know tires are expensive, but man sometimes I still want to do a nice burnout. At least I know now not to get those tires...

[Spectragod]

I have a blast ever time I get on it in mine as she sits. I don't have traction issues either, but yeah, I'd like the extra 100+ hp the supercharger gives the OP. I'm old enough to know tires are expensive, but man sometimes I still want to do a nice burnout. At least I know now not to get those tires...



Just a 100 extra?????? Thats not enough....


Sent from my iPhone while doing a big ole' smokey burnout in my wife's Prius.

[MERCURY 2003LSE]

I wish I had your traction problems :D
I want a supercharger someday :beer:
Any hassle with etest here in Ontario ? :beer:
Where are you at in Ontario ?

[JimP]

I wish I had your traction problems :D
I want a supercharger someday :beer:
Any hassle with etest here in Ontario ? :beer:
Where are you at in Ontario ?

No hassles, I'm in Ottawa.

[vkirkend]

I have Nitto Drag radials on Slayer1. They work good in the rain for me but it's not a daily driver either.

[Dragcity]

I found that the best psi at the track on my M/T 305/45-18 on widened weels is 28. Any lower they seem to cup and I loose traction.

I JUST put on a front and rear sway bar upgrade and replaced the watts link with upgraded parts. That in addition to the Detroit Trutrac, I don't think there is much more I can do. I already have the solid rear control arms.

I have not been to the track since all these new changes.

Bump stops..... Something to look at. The lower that ass squats, the better.

Good luck, you have about 20 more RWHP than I do. Need MO power.

[sailsmen]

I have tried several and have had the best success with the Mickey Thompson Street R. Part #3580 Size P305/45R18.

I run 14psi to 19psi.

My best time was 14.75psi resulting in a;
60' -1.667, ET - 11.542 and Trap -121.19.

Per Mickey Tompson
"ET STREET RADIAL

On the racetrack DO NOT use starting pressures below 11 psi.

Recommend pressures for:

P295 and larger sizes: 12-16 psi"

[Dragcity]

Wow. Maybe I did not go low enough. I stopped at 20 psi....

[Sully008]

When I was running the MT ET Street IIs at the track I dropped the psi to ~17lbs. 60' times were consistently in the 1.7xxs. Daily driving on the street I brought them back up to 32lbs.

[sailsmen]

Idealy My procedure is to arrive early and walk the launch pad to see if there is a groove, get a reference on the starting line and water box.

I then watch the first few cars go down the track to see what sort of traction they are getting.

I adjust my psi accordingly and check it before each run.

If I am unable to do the above my first run is 20psi and adjust down from there. Without my examination of the tracks traction and condition my first run is going to be a conservative test run to find out.

[merc]

If you are running soft compound tires, I suggest drilling the wheels for mounting screws to prevent the tire from turning on the wheel when hooking at the starting line. To install these, mount the tires and inflate them to 25 psi. Before drilling holes and installing the screws into the wheel, be sure they are not so long that they protrude through the tire bead and into the inside of the tire. Racing tires have an extra thick bead where the tire mounts to the wheel to accommodate the screws, and many manufacturers sell the proper-length wheel-mounting screws to accomplish this task without problem. Six to eight screws per side of a wheel is sufficient.

If you are running tubes and a tire spins on the wheel, it can cause the tire to pinch the tube. Whether you are running tubes or not this can not only throw the tire out of balance but also break the bead seal between the tire and the wheel.

If you are not sure if you need screws, you can use a piece of chalk or white shoe polish (common at the track for writing dial-in times on the window glass) to mark a straight line on both the wheel and the tire. When you check this line after making a pass, and it no longer lines up, the tire is slipping on the rim.

[sailsmen]

Per Mickey Thompson;
"Excessive Rim Slip

If continued or excessive (more than ½” to 1”per run) wheel/slip is experienced, Mickey Thompson recommends the use of “Beadlock” wheels for ET Street Radials. Bead screws are not recommended and could lead to tire failure and or damage."

[merc]

I have been running Bead screws for almost 10 years with out any tire failures. I guess I don't have the H.P or Money to afford a set of Beadlock wheels. What I don't want is to deflate a tire while launching. The lower the air pressure the higher the risk of wheel slip. Adding screws helps, but I don't have a 9 second Marauder.


Per Mickey Thompson;
"Excessive Rim Slip

If continued or excessive (more than ½” to 1”per run) wheel/slip is experienced, Mickey Thompson recommends the use of “Beadlock” wheels for ET Street Radials. Bead screws are not recommended and could lead to tire failure and or damage."

[Dragcity]

If I get to that point, Ill get some 16" steel wheels and dedicated tubed slicks. I would struggle with drilling holes on my widened Marauder wheels. I won't need to worry about that until I get a new overbuilt engine and ramp up the boost. Maybe some day.

Remember, mine is a DTR, so I'm kinda surprised I have to even think about traction woes.

[merc]

http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/gallery/files/1/5/6/mt.jpg

[merc]

Ask Mo about traction issues.

http://www.gdmjoe.com/marauder/MartyoLaunch.jpg

[Dragcity]

I L O V E that picture.

I think we should have center caps for Mustang wheels made up that read "Uncle Marauder"

[MyBlackBeasts]

I have been running Bead screws for almost 10 years with out any tire failures. I guess I don't have the H.P or Money to afford a set of Beadlock wheels. What I don't want is to deflate a tire while launching. The lower the air pressure the higher the risk of wheel slip. Adding screws helps, but I don't have a 9 second Marauder.

That's the lawyers speaking so when someone puts a 3" long 1/4" diam screw through the bead (and you know there is some ignorant boob out there that would do it.. I can here it now "Good Enough!") causing bead failure and resulting crash, they have the disclaimer to use in court.

[sailsmen]

The Mickey Thompson recc against bead screws applies to the ET Street Radials.

The construction of the ET Street Radials is a street tire and not a bias ply cheater slick.