Low brake pedal

[bugsyc]

My MM has a low brake pedal..Just like others that have posted this same condition,Pump the pedal twice and it's fine..I just had new rotors and pads installed.The first day,the pedal was fine.Next day and the pedal is low again.I'm going to buy the SS brake lines being sold by TCE..Will this fix the issue?After having the new brake lines installed,I figure that they'll need to be bled..Can any shop do this or do they need the machine for the ABS system?How much should this job cost??

[RF Overlord]

The SS lines won't fix a LOW pedal, but they will make the pedal feel more firm once it engages.

Sounds like whoever did your brake job didn't bleed the system properly...I'd go back to them and tell them to make it right.

You don't need a special machine unless you let the master cylinder run dry.

[bugsyc]

The pedal is firm.I just have to push it further than I would like.As I said,pump it once or twice and it's higher.This is exactly the way it was before the new rotors and pads.I replaced those because I did a pad slap previously and had a bumpy pedal from grooves in the rotors.I doubt a bleed was done.When replacing pads and rotors is a brake bleed needed?
The brakes have had this condition for a very long time.They stop good.The pedal is firm.The problem is the that the pedal goes down lower than I want unless I pump it twice.I've seen this condition mentioned numerous time on this forum..Some say SS lines.Some say master cylinder.

[fastblackmerc]

As stated the SS lines ill make the pedal rock-hard if the brakes are bled properly.

I'd swap out the lines and gravity bleed the system.

If the brake fluid is dirty, remove as much as you can with a turkey baster - I get the at the dollar store - replace with clean fresh fluid, open right rear bleeder screw and let it drain until you get clean fluid, then close the bleeder screw. Always check the master cylinder, make sure it ever gets empty. Do the same for the the left rear, right front and left front.

[bugsyc]

Thanks for the info.My pedal is firm.The issue is the pedal is low.I have to push it further than I would like.Two pumps and the pedal is where I want it.Not a soft or spongy pedal issue....I have read others with the same issue.The only one I remember that fixed it,cut 1/4 inch of vacuum hose.
I was asking if the SS brake lines would cure this.From the answers,it doesn't sound as if the lines are the problem..

[Turbov6Bryan]

Buy lines and replace yours

Problem was there before you had rotors replaced

If it was the booster, no matter how many times you pumped the brakes, you wouldn't get the assistance from the booster. I.e. Pumping makes it better, then it's not the booster

[bugsyc]

I'll do it.Thanks

[fastblackmerc]

I'll do it.Thanks

Make sure the emergency brakes are adjusted.

[Spectragod]

As I have been down this road........ In my case the master cylinder had an internal leak, replaced it and the problem went away. It is possible that there is air in the system, if you can safely get your ABS to engage in a parking lot somewhere, afterwards, is the pedal better? If so, you need to bleed the system, their is air someplace.

If that abs trick doesn't make the pedal feel better, then you are most likely looking at a master cylinder. Your parking brake is a separate system and has nothing to do with pedal feel.

I always bleed my brakes after replacing pads or rotors, fluid gets old and contaminated, it does occasionally need changed.

[Bradley G]

As I have been down this road........ In my case the master cylinder had an internal leak, replaced it and the problem went away. It is possible that there is air in the system, if you can safely get your ABS to engage in a parking lot somewhere, afterwards, is the pedal better? If so, you need to bleed the system, their is air someplace.

If that abs trick doesn't make the pedal feel better, then you are most likely looking at a master cylinder. Your parking brake is a separate system and has nothing to do with pedal feel.

I always bleed my brakes after replacing pads or rotors, fluid gets old and contaminated, it does occasionally need changed.
I was in st. Louis a few weeks ago actually at for the July several guys that drove my car made that comment that my brake assist all the sudden fades.
Now I'm looking into what you just described for a master cylinder or if anybody has suggestions I've been reading about the brake booster and all that.
But I definitely have those symptoms

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

[bugsyc]

Have you tried bleeding them?Seems like the first and cheapest place to start.Let us know how you make out.I'll do the same..Hopefully that's what's up.

[bugsyc]

I bled the brakes.It only made a slight improvement.I'm still not happy with them.Next step will be to replace the brake hoses with Todd's SS lines. I didn't mention that I have a line lock on the front brakes.I haven't really used it in years.I'm wondering if that is part of the issue? I'll check back when I put the new brake lines in...I tried pushing the brake pedal and then starting the car.There was no movement of the pedal on start up.Does that mean something?

[Turbov6Bryan]

When the car is all put back together, put your eyeballs on the hose and have someone jam on the brake pedal

Watch those hoses rubber hoses flex :eek::eek:

Yours is a 300a right? So no traction control?

[bugsyc]

When the car is all put back together, put your eyeballs on the hose and have someone jam on the brake pedal

Watch those hoses rubber hoses flex :eek::eek:

Yours is a 300a right? So no traction control?
The car is all together now..Yes,300A.No traction control..Yep,new hoses are on the agenda.

[justbob]

All cars have a firmer pedal if pushed more than once. Are you positive you just haven't gotten to accustomed to the Charger's? Newer car, better refined.

The line lock is just a check valve, unless it's leaking then rule it out.

Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[bugsyc]

All cars have a firmer pedal if pushed more than once. Are you positive you just haven't gotten to accustomed to the Charger's? Newer car, better refined.

The line lock is just a check valve, unless it's leaking then rule it out.

Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk
My new CHALLENGER has high,rock hard brakes..True,but I'm sure that's not it.I remember when the MM brake pedal was higher and firmer..Stops good,The pedal just has a longer travel till it does.

[alec2538]

Put your rear end in the air and see how much in and out play you have with your axle shafts. My car does this EXACT same thing and I've got a decent bit of in-out play in my rear diff.

Slide underneath and watch the caliper move on it's slides as someone pushes and pulls the wheel in and out. That extra movement is taken up by the caliper piston on first pedal application, and on second immediate application you're feeling the immediate "bite" that you should be anyways.

(I could be talking out of my ass and/or explaining what I saw on my car all wrong. I think of it like stuck caliper slides, only in reverse. Kind of...)

[Blackmobile]

If all else fails to get the pedal where you want it try this. The Marauder brake are designed with a floating caliper. With new pads and rotors, the caliper will grab the rotor evenly on both sides. When the pads wear the caliper will compensate its position on the rotor by sliding on the guide pins one way or the other. The guide pins are greased so the caliper can accomplish this, so if the pins are dry or has a rusted surface, the caliper will not be centered. First push on the brakes will center the caliper and the second push will grab a lot better. Food for thought!

[RF Overlord]

I've got a decent bit of in-out play in my rear diff.
Exactly how much is "a decent amount"? This is a C-clip rear end and there will be some in/out play...like 1/8".

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

I drive lots of rentals, when I come back to my grand marquis which has terrible pedal travel until it engages, I hate driving it. Feels like foot/leg gets more tired from having that unnecessary pedal travel.

The Marauder does this too, but isn't as bad as the GM. I believe worn calipers, floating calipers, rubber hoses, air in the system.. all adds up to that nasty blank feeling until you press down further.

[Dragcity]

I recently rehabbed my rear end and brakes. My pedal feel was poor, way too deep and unsure stopping.

I put new Power Stop drilled & slotted rotors and Carbon Fiber/Ceramic pads all around. That was after I installed the Detroit Trutrac and 31 spline axles. I can say the new diff and axles completely removed all the side to side axle play. there is presently Zero. I did not feel any difference in brake pedal feel after just the diff and axles.

When I did the brakes, I ran all the old fluid out and replaced with new, then pressure bled each line. That is when I felt the DRAMATIC improvement in pedal feel and properly improved stopping.

I am running on original lead lines with 107,000 miles and have no issues at this point. I do have the TCE lines as replacements when I need them, as they are a great product and I wanted to get them before they become obsolete.

I hope it is not your Master cylinder or anything serious. Is there any chance you got an air bubble in your ABS Module? ( The aluminum block under the air filter) I had to replace that part on a 2002 Sable and had to go to FORD to have it properly bled.

Uncomfortable brakes is bad feeling, hope you can get it squared away.

[alec2538]

Exactly how much is "a decent amount"? This is a C-clip rear end and there will be some in/out play...like 1/8".

That sounds about right. Maybe a tad more. Nothing to concern myself with. It's just a theory I had with regard to the brakes. I know my car could use a flush and bleed at 200k.

[Mr. Man]

Bet there is still air in the system. I had this issue for years with he SB. I'd take to the shop and ask them to bleed the system. Finally the last time I went out on the shop floor and watched them. 4-5 pumps and they were ready to move on. I stopped them and said lets try another 10 pumps per wheel. Pedal is much firmer now.

[Ambitious1]

Yes, same thing in my experience. Had a Master Cylinder go on my Daily Driver, an '04 CV LX HPP. Replaced it myself. However the brake pedal travelled far before I could feel the brakes actually apply to the wheel. Went through and bled the system and this time there was little pedal travel. A very significant improvement. I agree with most of the members here. Sounds like you may have air in your system.

[bugsyc]

Lot's of responses.Seems as though this a common issue with these cars.I had the brakes bled.I insisted on watching.I had them do it the pump and hold method on each wheel.3 times per wheel.He sucked all the fluid out of the master cylinder and refilled with fresh DOT3 both before and after.There is a slight improvement but,still not where I'd like it to be..One thing that I did notice was that the right front didn't flow as well as the others.I don't know if that is significant or not.Might need the bleed valve replaced or cleaned out.I haven't replaced the lines yet but,I will if I don't sell her first.Thanks for all the responses.BTW..as far as "speed bleeders"http://www.speedbleeder.zoovy.com/product/SB1010SSS/SB1010S-SS-Speed-Bleeder.html..These look like the ticket for a one man bleed.

[fastblackmerc]

Lot's of responses.Seems as though this a common issue with these cars.I had the brakes bled.I insisted on watching.I had them do it the pump and hold method on each wheel.3 times per wheel.He sucked all the fluid out of the master cylinder and refilled with fresh DOT3 both before and after.There is a slight improvement but,still not where I'd like it to be..One thing that I did notice was that the right front didn't flow as well as the others.I don't know if that is significant or not.Might need the bleed valve replaced or cleaned out.I haven't replaced the lines yet but,I will if I don't sell her first.Thanks for all the responses.BTW..as far as "speed bleeders"http://www.speedbleeder.zoovy.com/product/SB1010SSS/SB1010S-SS-Speed-Bleeder.html..These look like the ticket for a one man bleed.
+1 on the SpeedBleeders. Have them on all my vehicles.

[tobiasg1995]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160924/dde00527ce2982a62c359bca1bb3d3 de.jpg
Best tool I've bought. Took about an hour to do all 4 wheels by myself, providing bleeders come loose, just pay attention to the reservoir and bottle. It empties quick I found filling the bottle only half way worked best less chance for tipping over. Firmed up the pedal. I used a big bottle of fluid and flushed the system. Now with the TCE lines on my 06 gmq the pedal is rock hard. Worked wonders on my 91 s-10 I had also. Brake fluid is one of the most neglected fluids on any car. Makes a huge difference with fresh fluid. Just my 2 cents
Toby

2006 GMQ, 2010 CVPI

[sailsmen]

Go to another shop. They are incompetent.

I made first pressure bleeder in 1977.