Dyno results-Paul's HP

[CRUZTAKER]

I dynoed this afternoon while Jerry was in town with the new Paul's HP cold air intake installed. I had my hunches, as well as many of you...and...

ZERO CHANGE.

That's right, no HP gains, and certainly not the 8 to 15 as suggested in the advertisement and fuzzy dyno slips. I actually came in a bit lower at 301.8 rwhp.
Jerry and I discussed this, and came to the conclusion that perhaps any noticable change will be at the track.

So, I guess that's the next step. See if the timeslips improve.

[schuvwj]

No HP gains? Man that hurts!

[tmac1337]

I bought the kit and had a big problem with the quality of it. Now this! You should have been more explicit in the title of your thread. For example "Pauls Air Kit Blows!"

[Bradley G]

Was waiting for someone to post about this !!who is going to get us cold air to intake ? pauls sounded good .I cooled off as soon as I read posts here .admittedly skeptical:down:

[stevengerard]

As much HP increase as me changing my underware, and that's a freebie!

[Logan]

Post your before and after dyno sheets pls, and if they're not done on the same day/conditions, then Houston, we've got a problem...

[TAF]

From what I've been told...the original claims of the 18RWHP were not ever achievable. In fact, there might not be much of a gain at all with a "cold air box". That's why a BIG part of the "bling-factor" needs to come in, and when I was talking to Paul's and they showed me a pic...I passed.

I'm looking forward to the carbon fiber kit....."blingamous-maximus" :beatnik: ...and any RWHP gain would just be "gravy"...

[joflewbyu2]

They might of achieved it with the hood open wide and a huge fan blowing outside temp air to the filter. But warmer underhood heat is less dense than cooler air coming from outside side so the increase of airflow is defeated by less dense hot air.

[SergntMac]

Let's hold our water here, there's more testing ahead.

One report of zero performance on a dyno is dismal, yes, but remember too, that y'all have been begging for improvement where there may be little improvement possible. I've said it so much, I sick of hearing it myself.

If there is no manner or method of scooping more air into the air box, there will be no improvement over the OEM design.

BTW, what happened to the K&N investigation, anyone know any results yet?

I remember when I was testing all of the Stage 1 mods way back then. Some mods were proven on the dyno, like the Denso plugs and early chip programming. Others didn't show as well as I expected on the dyno, like the Stallion TC. But, once I got the car on the street for the seat-of-the-pants testing, whoo-whee baby!

I think it's in the nature of this mod, that forward movement of the car has a lot to do with it's performance. Mike Lopex has the biggest dyno fan I've ever seen, and it cannot simulate collecting cold air live on a track. Both Paul's and the OEM still suffer an obstructed air path, I am sure that maximum performance is available from either design by pulling the head lamp pod. Not suitable for daily driving, but this will maximize your performance on the track. Let's wait and see?

I've seen the kit at Paul's, and I've seen it installed on Barry's car. It has a lot of visual impact, very cool looking over the OEM. If this is what moves you, that's really all that counts.

[sailsmen]

Barry, we assume both dyno runs were SAE corrected for temp/humidity?

[2003 MIB]

I was REALLY hoping my "Danometer" (seat of the pants) was out of calibration with regard to the PHP box. The thread makes me mad. Sarge is right- I got some underhood appeal but for the bucks I spent I wish I'd done something else.... :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

[TAF]

I'll say it again...
From what I've been told...the original claims of the 18RWHP were not ever achievable. In fact, there might not be much of a gain at all with a "cold air box". That's why a BIG part of the "bling-factor" needs to come in, and when I was talking to Paul's and they showed me a pic...I passed.

I'm looking forward to the carbon fiber kit....."blingamous-maximus" :beatnik: ...and any RWHP gain would just be "gravy"...

[Marauderjack]

Hello.....

Stationary on a fixed dyno won't give ya the cold air needed for the box to function?? :confused:

I think it helped mine but have nothing other than "SOTP" test and noise factor!! ;)

I like it and had no issues except the MAFS gasket......simple fix!! :rolleyes:

Marauderjack :pimp:

[stevengerard]

What about using a set up like the 69 W-31 and W-30 Oldsmobiles, they make replica under bumper scoops that possibly could fit and route air into the box that way. They are actually low profile designs and come in black.

[2003 MIB]

What about using a set up like the 69 W-31 and W-30 Oldsmobiles, they make replica under bumper scoops that possibly could fit and route air into the box that way. They are actually low profile designs and come in black.

You're in my head...I've thought about this as well. I don't see how one would route so the MAF stay in the same location. The Olds set-up went to a 4-barrel on top of a manifold with clearance on either side of the engine. The air path is pretty straight. The closest I can imagine in the Marauder is gutting the front face of the stock box and removing the headlight- even I won't do that...

[woaface]

If every test has been done and it still comes to no HP gains, try modifing the container and tearing the top half of the heat shield off...like mine! It get's a lot of air quick....you can hear it suck a mass load in with the window down when you floor it.


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=17

It WILL NOT suck in hot air from the radiator tube if it's supported properly...and if it is, and the top is off...it might make a nice difference (2-3 horses?)

It's worth a shot!!!

[CRUZTAKER]

DYNO TEST W/ STOCK INTAKE 5/1/2004 WITH MEDIUM VOLUME FAN, HOOD OPEN, ENGINE COOL
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE = 29.40
VAPOR PRESSURE = 0.39
AIR TEMP = 77.2
1.01 SAE
299.8 RWHP

DYNO TEST W/ COLD AIR INTAKE 5/25/04 WITH MEDIUM VOLUME FAN & HOOD OPEN, ENGINE COOL
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE = 29.25
VAPOR PRESSURE = .47
AIR TEMP = 83
1.03 SAE
301.8 RWHP

REFERENCE:
DYNO TEST W/ STOCK INTAKE 4/3/04 NO FAN, HOOD OPEN, ENGINE WARM
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE = 29.04
VAPOR PRESSURE = .019
AIR TEMP = 64.8
1.00 SAE
302.4 RWHP

That should be enough info for some basic comparisons. Jerry was there, and had the same opinions. I am just reporting my findings as promised. If I had to do it over, I wouldn't have changed a thing. There are no money back gaurantees on used parts, so it's mine now. I think I paid about $275 for it. I have put about 500 miles on the car since it was installed 2 weeks ago.

If anyone still wants one, and would like one slightly used, I'll let it go for the first $185 offer. Otherwise, it's mine for life now. :baaa:

***Like I said, IT'S STILL NOT TRACK TESTED. I will do that friday night weather permitting. I'll try it with the headlamp in, and with it out.

[stevengerard]

I'll check at home, the 66 - 69 Olds actually had the scoops mounted under the bumper and plastic tubing routed through the front of the plastic wheel well to the carb. So you could put two of these under the bumper and actually only have one routed directly to the airbox on the driver side. Even back then they just used plastic tubing like that used for dryer venting. Not sure if there is enough room but it may work.

How about drilling a hole through the lower side of the bumper. Below there is a low-pressure area which would help the air be sucked into the tubing, yes, no, maybe so?

[Ross]

I, too, am wondering what happened to the K&N test. I thought it was supposed to be out by now? :depress:

[Logan]

Thanks for the hard numbers barry, can't say I disagree with you.

[sailsmen]

Barry I assume the 301.8 is after teh application of the 1.03 SAE correction factor?

[tmac1337]

This thread is one example of why I have spent a lot of my money at Reinharts. At least when I spend it there I know I am getting my money's worth.

[jspradii]

This thread is one example of why I have spent a lot of my money at Reinharts. At least when I spend it there I know I am getting my money's worth.
Had the throttle body inlets polished and added Pauls HP box to the car. Dropped my 1/4 times from 13.08 to 12.54. That wasn't all the polishing. I'd say the box, under track conditions, was good for at least .3 second of the almost .6 improvement. I don't know how many hp that is (don't really care); but the time improvement indicates that forced air at speed has something to do with ultimate contribution to output. Was it worth $249.00? Remains to be seen........

[RCSignals]

There are no money back gaurantees on used parts, so it's mine now. I think I paid about $275 for it. I have put about 500 miles on the car since it was installed 2 weeks ago.


No customer satisfaction gurantee? No "performs as stated" guarantee?

[sailsmen]

Jim did you make back to back runs at the track w/ & w/out the Pauls parts?

Weather and track traction can easily account for a .5 to .6 difference, I know from experience with my own car.

[TAF]

There are no money back gaurantees on used parts, so it's mine now.
Their site doesn't contain any "disclaimers"..."your results may vary", etc.

But then again...I've learned lately, once again..."Guarantee" is only as good as those behind the "Guaranteeing"...


The Paul's High Performance's Marauder High-Flow Air Box is uniquely designed for the '03-'04 Marauders. It bolts in using your existing lower O.E. mounting pads. Comes with our stainless heat shield, lower black-powder coated brace, 10-inch conical open-end filter, and all mounting hardware and gaskets along with comprehensive instructions. Adds 18 rwhp & 14 lb-ft of torque.
We highly recommend the use of the Pre-filter which is a re-usable filter skin that helps to keep dirt and moisture out.

[Ross]

Thankfully, we have people on this site who take the plunge and try new products, and then honestly report what they have found. If a product does well, we can all jump on the bandwagon and get good results. If a product doesn't perform, we can all save some money. Thanks for taking the hit on this one, Barry.

[FordNut]

Barry,
Did you see any increase in torque or low rpm power, rather than the peak numbers?

Some of my mods have had this effect, so it you just look at the maximum number you don't see any improvement but there is a real and measurable improvement in power at off-peak operating rpm.

[CRUZTAKER]

Barry,
Did you see any increase in torque or low rpm power, rather than the peak numbers?
See, that just shows I'm not much of a motorhead...I failed to post torque numbers as well. I added them accordingly in BLUE.


DYNO TEST W/ STOCK INTAKE 5/1/2004 WITH MEDIUM VOLUME FAN, HOOD OPEN, ENGINE COOL
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE = 29.40
VAPOR PRESSURE = 0.39
AIR TEMP = 77.2
1.01 SAE
299.8 RWHP 315.3 TORQUE

DYNO TEST W/ COLD AIR INTAKE 5/25/04 WITH MEDIUM VOLUME FAN & HOOD OPEN, ENGINE COOL
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE = 29.25
VAPOR PRESSURE = .47
AIR TEMP = 83
1.03 SAE
301.8 RWHP 317.9 TORQUE

REFERENCE:
DYNO TEST W/ STOCK INTAKE 4/3/04 NO FAN, HOOD OPEN, ENGINE WARM
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE = 29.04
VAPOR PRESSURE = .019
AIR TEMP = 64.8
1.00 SAE
302.4 RWHP 307.4 TORQUE

I'm not sure what to make of this, perhaps an improvement, perhaps just a weather variable, perhaps running the car to 6500 on the dyno? I dunno...but either way, I need to update my sig!;)

[CRUZTAKER]

Tonight at the track...it was overcast and a cool 58 degrees. My first run with the new airbox was 13.881 @ 101.13 which is a nice (but minimal) improvement from my former average of a flat 14.0.

Second run was a 13.907 at 100.71.

I took the headlight out for the third run as the track was gonna close for an event for a little while, and Gage was ready to go home.
I ran my best so far at 13.820 @ 101.56 mph. w/ 2.076 60 ft. time.

Traction is still an issue, even though the BFG's are getting really worn in the center now. Next week the new rims should be back, and I'll mount up the bald pirelli's and off I go again.

BTW: My PI T/C has not been installed yet. No time to drive to PA. for the install. Pretty soon though, and that should show the best improvement yet.

[Petrograde]

hmmm,... not much gain on the dyno.

I can feel a difference with it. I wonder if it's simply because of the big conical filter replacing the stock box??? :confused:

[mpearce]

Barry,

I'm so jealous you got to go to the track tonight! What a night! Clear, and cool! Perfect night for drag racing...I wish I didn't have to work until 1am...I'm atill at work right now! Nice numbers though...gotta love getting into the 13's and 13.8's are very respectable. I bet you're itching to make some runs with your new TC installed, and some slicks huh? Keep us posted!

-Mat

[Logan]

hmmm,... not much gain on the dyno.

I can feel a difference with it. I wonder if it's simply because of the big conical filter replacing the stock box??? :confused:The reason you can feel a difference is because most folks just concentrate on peak numbers for some silly reason. They almost never compare the affect throughout the power band... There's most likely a gain, not in peak numbers, but an increase in power somewhere lower in the powerband.

[Dennis Reinhart]

First of all Barry 301 RWHP on a N/A Marauder is DAM Good, now on the Pauls cold air kit, he is probably one of the sharper shops around, he has an immaculate facility, he like my self tests every product he sells, given your situation you must consider your car is making more RWHP than 98% of any one else out there. So there comes a point where you are not going to gain a whole lot more until you go in the heads, I would have never expected you would gain 10HP on top of your current, outstanding numbers, and you clearly did not lose RWHP. Given this information, you have to take all this into consideration, also what was out side air temp the day of your dyno numbers, was there a fan on the engine compartment or grill area, was the hood up, all this has to be considered. How does the car respond since adding this mod.

http://www.marauder57.com/Reinhart%20SC%20Banner%201.gif

[BillyGman]

I must confess that I haven't even read this entire thread yet, but I think both Logan and Dennis have some excellent points here.

[CRUZTAKER]

I agree Billy...I am just kidding about wanting to sell it.:P

I am sure in the long run at the track, she is breathing much better, and I do notice better top speeds as well.

Thanks for the nice words Dennis! Your input is always appreciated. Afterall, it was YOU who got me going in this direction 16 months ago.;)