03-04 exhaust cams to replace intake cams?

[376shovel]

Hey dudes I'm grabbing an 05 motor to replace my ticking engine, and it will be on the stand for a few weeks before it goes in. Anybody out there use an exhaust camshaft on the intake side for more power? Looks like the 96-98 Cobra intake cams are hard to come by, but these cams are cheap and plentiful. I'm a GM guy so I don't know much about the 4.6 DOHC specifically, but as long as they're the same journal size and there are no issues with the sprocket, I dont see why you couldn't use an exhaust cam on the intake side. Thanks.

[RubberCtyRauder]

an 05 motor from what?

[376shovel]

an 05 motor from what?

Lincoln Aviator

[MOTOWN]

Hey dudes I'm grabbing an 05 motor to replace my ticking engine, and it will be on the stand for a few weeks before it goes in. Anybody out there use an exhaust camshaft on the intake side for more power? Looks like the 96-98 Cobra intake cams are hard to come by, but these cams are cheap and plentiful. I'm a GM guy so I don't know much about the 4.6 DOHC specifically, but as long as they're the same journal size and there are no issues with the sprocket, I dont see why you couldn't use an exhaust cam on the intake side. Thanks.

Exhaust cam used in place of intake cams:confused::confused: please tell me your not serious:confused:

[376shovel]

You must be misinterpreting. I'm not saying switching them. I'm saying buying additional exhaust cams. So the motor would go from 184/196 duration (intake and exhaust respectively) as it comes from the factory, to 196/196 duration. I see people using Cobra intake cams from 96-98 or 99-01 cobras and they're not much more duration, but a whole lot harder to come by. This would be a cheap, almost as good option. I just don't know if there are any actual physical differences between the design of an intake/exhaust cam in these engines.

[Spectragod]

Hold my beer......watch this...

[Marauderjack]

Hold my beer......watch this...

Me too!!:beer::eek:

[376shovel]

Do the lobes line up? I'm assuming it won't work physically by the reaction I'm getting. It'd be nice to know why, being as I have said I don't know much about this engine, but I guess I can take the hit and stop posting anything on this board and just use the search function. Matter of fact I don't know why the moderators don't just lock down the board entirely and use it as a library.

[FordNut]

Do the lobes line up? I'm assuming it won't work physically by the reaction I'm getting. It'd be nice to know why, being as I have said I don't know much about this engine, but I guess I can take the hit and stop posting anything on this board and just use the search function. Matter of fact I don't know why the moderators don't just lock down the board entirely and use it as a library.

I don't know any reason it wouldn't work, you would have to get ARP cam bolts and either completely eliminate the keys from the gears or use the early gears with removeable keys.

You would have to index them with tooling to hold the cams in place until the gear bolts are tightened. The positions of the key wouldn't be useful for indexing, you would just have to use the degree wheel and dial indicator to position them. It takes a long time to index the cams in these engines, but I figured it out ok.

[FordNut]

Passenger intake and passenger exhaust should have a specific offset between lobes on every cylinder. Passenger exhaust and passenger exhaust should have a different offset but every cylinder would be the same. Remove the key and rotate the cam for the correct lobe separation and it should work.

Keep in mind, the passenger and driver sides are different so you gotta have two passenger exhaust on the passenger side and likewise on the driver side.

[WPG_Merc]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[376shovel]

Passenger intake and passenger exhaust should have a specific offset between lobes on every cylinder. Passenger exhaust and passenger exhaust should have a different offset but every cylinder would be the same. Remove the key and rotate the cam for the correct lobe separation and it should work.

Keep in mind, the passenger and driver sides are different so you gotta have two passenger exhaust on the passenger side and likewise on the driver side.


Interesting. Thanks, FordNut. Sounds like it isn't done often, I'm just planning for when I have it on the stand and I have to check the engine out anyway. I was planning on degreeing the stock cams, never done it on one of these engines. Never even popped a cam cover on one so this is the kind of info that helps big time.

[martyo]

Being different can get expensive.

[FordNut]

Being different can get expensive.
^^^^^^^^
What he said

[FordNut]

Interesting. Thanks, FordNut. Sounds like it isn't done often, I'm just planning for when I have it on the stand and I have to check the engine out anyway. I was planning on degreeing the stock cams, never done it on one of these engines. Never even popped a cam cover on one so this is the kind of info that helps big time.

Degreeing is a slow process, for sure get the ARP bolts. The OEM bolts are TTY and they aren't rated for near the torque the ARP bolts are. When I was degreeing my cams I figured out the tightness of the bolts is what holds the gear in place, not the key. The keys were filed down enough that they weren't even touching the cam grooves when I got done. Adjustable aftermarket cam gears may be another option where by some chance a key could be installed.

[mattdohc]

how much hp/tq gain is this going to be good for? myself I like the feel of the supercharger stock heads.

[FordNut]

how much hp/tq gain is this going to be good for? myself I like the feel of the supercharger stock heads.

I'm not sure about power increase, but the sought-after 96-99 Cobra cams have equal duration at 195/195 while the original Marauder cams are 185/195. All of them have the same .398 lift.

[Black&Gifted]

If you get the degreeing correct, I think around 20-30rwhp for 96-98 cobra cams. Look around svtp, they come up every so often.

Hopefully massacre noticed this thread. He's the master on this and was instrumental when I swapped 98 cobra cams into an 03-04 cobra engine.


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[massacre]

I would just either advance/retard the stock cams or use '96-'98 Cobra intake cams. Running exhaust cams on the intake side sounds overly complicated and time consuming IMHO.

I have a stash of Cobra cams, just waiting for a future project. Luckily I got mine when they were still cheap. Todd Warren was one of the first to put the early Cobra cams into the C heads, others on the corral and modfords were early to that party as well.

[376shovel]

Well, it looks like I was able to grab a set of 99 Cobra cams after all. Anyone know where to find the cam bolts for them?

[justbob]

The dealer keeps them in stock but as mentioned ARP is the way to go. Summit is normally my go to.


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[WPG_Merc]

Well, it looks like I was able to grab a set of 99 Cobra cams after all. Anyone know where to find the cam bolts for them?

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/arp-256-1001/overview/

[376shovel]

Pumped I got my 05 motor now. DC heads.

[376shovel]

Quick picture

[FordNut]

I believe the cam covers are different. PCV location? Oil pan and pickup tube, too.

[376shovel]

I believe the cam covers are different. PCV location? Oil pan and pickup tube, too.

Yep basically everything except the long block is different. I'm going to strip this one, clean it good do the intake cams, and yank my to swap everything over. I'll be selling everything I don't use. No space for 2 motors come summer.

[FordNut]

Good move. I have a spare engine ready to go. Low miles, Cobra cams. Just have to swap over cam covers and intake. It already has the correct pan and tube. The original engine is still doing fine at 281k but one of these days I suspect I'll need to change.

[376shovel]

Good move. I have a spare engine ready to go. Low miles, Cobra cams. Just have to swap over cam covers and intake. It already has the correct pan and tube. The original engine is still doing fine at 281k but one of these days I suspect I'll need to change.

Exactly. Once it's done I'm going to take a long holiday weekend and swap it all over. That ticking is driving me crazy.

[maximusslade]

I am building a 4v engine with a teksid block, 99 heads and cams, with an 03 marauder intake. Yes, the non marauder valve covers will have ports in different spots but can still be used. I am in fact using the MKVIII timing cover as opposed to the Marauder one, it will work just fine. I got lots of advice regarding cams on this site and the CVN site. New oil pan, new tensioners, new oil pump, degreed the cams (116/110), it's been a fun, if not illuminating process.

[massacre]

I hope you meant 110/116 intake/exhaust if they are Ford cams

[maximusslade]

Yeah.... that's likely what I meant. Been a while since I did it... wrote it all down on a pad in the shop, since I mess little details like that up sometimes.

[massacre]

Well if it's 116/110 intake/exhaust then you did it backwards, but it's likely that you did it correctly. It's always nice to have some pen & paper handy when degreeing cams, especially when learning. No shame in that at all.

[WPG_Merc]

Well if it's 116/110 intake/exhaust then you did it backwards, but it's likely that you did it correctly. It's always nice to have some pen & paper handy when degreeing cams, especially when learning. No shame in that at all.
:2thumbs::2thumbs:

[maximusslade]

What a pain in the rear it was too to degree those cams... Hopefully I'll only ever have to do it once.

[WPG_Merc]

What a pain in the rear it was too to degree those cams... Hopefully I'll only ever have to do it once.

For my MM I got Jeff at Mo's to degree mine in 2015,It took 3 days & 5 dynos with 1 ZEX dyno to set it up right.
No probs since.:bows:

This summer I maybe able to get a S/C forged motor from a friends odd stang he maybe parting out.:)

[massacre]

What a pain in the rear it was too to degree those cams... Hopefully I'll only ever have to do it once.

The more you do it, the easier it gets plus the quality of the tools is paramount IMHO. You'd be surprised at how many people will spend thousands on a motor but won't spring for a $200 quality dial indicator to measure it with.
If you can just make up your own tool kit, you might be better off depending on what you are trying to do. The stuff I have, I know will thread right into the head, I know I can get a good angle on the spring retainer, piston stop is super long and works like a charm- basically if you have good tools the job will go smoothly and much more quickly. You will get nice smooth readings and repeatable results which is what you want.
Sure the HF and Summit kits are short money and only a click away from your front door. Try using their tiny piston stop, jumpy dial indicator and tiny degree wheel. Maybe someone makes a good kit now, but man the kits I have seen and ones that I tried to use were terrible. Nothing repeatable, tools were not user friendly at all, magnetic stand, small wheel.
I assembled my own kit and I can do it in a couple hours depending on the setup. Like if I can walk up to the motor on the stand and just set everything up and start taking measurements then it goes pretty quick. 2v cams are super easy.
I will tell you that it is really easy degreeing modular stuff today compared to the old days before adjustable crank gears with multiple keyways.
You would have to set everything up, hang all the chains, find crank CL, then take measurements in the usual fashion. Then figure out where you want to go, and then using a diamond burr on a dremel, and grind the keyway of the gear in the proper direction, then set everything back up, and take measurements again and see how you did.
Need more? Take everything apart again, grind it more, then set everything back up again and take more measurements.
And do it over, and over and then on 4 more cams.
You can grind the key itself but don't want to make it weird and wobbly. I saw some offset keys too but never had to use them.
I would like to buy the person who came up with the adjustable crank gears a beer, they sure saved me a ton of time over the years.

ModCamPonents made some adjustable cam gears, I have a set of the originals but the 2nd gen gears are a much better design and prob the most expensive cam gears I have seen. I never installed any adjustable cam gears because it dawned on me that they weren't needed.

[massacre]

For my MM I got Jeff at Mo's to degree mine in 2015,It took 3 days & 5 dynos with 1 ZEX dyno to set it up right.
No probs since.:bows:

This summer I maybe able to get a S/C forged motor from a friends odd stang he maybe parting out.:)

Wow did you guys degree the cams in the car? If so that is quite impressive.

[WPG_Merc]

Wow did you guys degree the cams in the car? If so that is quite impressive.
Yes sir,& also installed a ZEX NOS system.
It took 3 long days in Aug 2015 at Mo's in the humid Georgia heat.:eek:

[massacre]

I won't degree cams in car, way too much hassle. 3 days sounds about right lol

Glad you were able to get it done.

[maximusslade]

+100000 on What massacre says. The tools really make or break the job. I did get the kit from Summit and it.... It was rough... I had to improvise a few things to make it all work. As to the adjustable gears, yeah, I ended up getting adjustable crank and cam sprockets from MMR. It took me a while to figure out the right configuration, but once I did everything did seem to fall into place.

[Serge]

Hey dudes I'm grabbing an 05 motor to replace my ticking engine, and it will be on the stand for a few weeks before it goes in. Anybody out there use an exhaust camshaft on the intake side for more power? Looks like the 96-98 Cobra intake cams are hard to come by, but these cams are cheap and plentiful. I'm a GM guy so I don't know much about the 4.6 DOHC specifically, but as long as they're the same journal size and there are no issues with the sprocket, I dont see why you couldn't use an exhaust cam on the intake side. Thanks.

96-98 Cobra cams aren't that hard to find. Ask around on Corral, SVTP and ModularFords and you will eventually find a set.

[maximusslade]

And there are pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenty of 01 cobra heads and cams out there too.