What's wrong with the Mark VIII engine?

[Motorhead350]

I recall a few people have bought these engines for the blocks and nothing else, but could the engine complete work? If not, then why so?

I have the opportunity to buy a Mark 8 engine, but my main objective is to tear it down and replace the pistons and have the heads done, drop and go. Eventually adding a power adder.

The heads do not fit with our intake, that I recall, but what about the engine as a whole? What is the issue with this?

Thank you in advance, just doing a little research.

[fastblackmerc]

I believe the Mark block is a tekskid block.... the holy grail of mod motor blocks.

[Motorhead350]

Yes that's what I recall, but why aren't people simply dropping these in?

Something wasn't quite right with the top end? Was this a clearance issue? Intake?

[Ambitious1]

This may help:

https://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=63211

[Motorhead350]

Doesn't say anything about why or why not the engine would work for us.

I found the part on B heads as opposed to C heads, but it's still not clear to me as to why people don't plug and play with these.

[Drewstang]

The heads are the main issue as the Marauder intake won't bolt up to them. The next issue is for high performance builds the pistons and rods are not very good over 500 hp or so. The shortblock is a good swap if you're not boosting above that level.

[Mr. Man]

Teksid blocks are also available in early Aviators. Can't remember when Ford went to exclusively the WAP block.

[Motorhead350]

From my research I have determine I can use a Mark 8 block, type C heads (can be found on a Lincoln contential and would have to use the Marauder upper intake upon install.

I want to build an engine over time even if it's just the long block, then put it all in, in a weekend.

Does this sound possible or am I missing something? I would put in fresh pistons and have a machine shop take care of the block after tear down. Basically, I want to build a new engine for the car that could handle boost. Nothing too big, but I would like to be back to a 12 second street car or high 11s.

[massacre]

I typed out a bunch of stuff but then deleted it
Prob better this way

[Zack]

I typed out a bunch of stuff but then deleted it
Prob better this way

LMAO!!!!
:banana::banana:

[Drewstang]

I wasn't aware the Continentals had C heads. But that sounds like a solid plan.

[Motorhead350]

I typed out a bunch of stuff but then deleted it
Prob better this way

Flat Duo Jets is on tour with Agent Orange and Reverend Horton Heat.

Sounds like the set up is legit.

Time to slowly build.

[massacre]

I wasn't aware the Continentals had C heads. But that sounds like a solid plan.

The Continental C heads are same as '99-'01 Cobra heads, meaning that they have bigger combustion chambers and smaller, more restrictive ports than the '03-'04 C heads.
Will they work? Sure.
Will they make as much power? Nope.
I have posted this info here multiple times, just as a heads up to those that are thinking of using Conti heads. Every single person that I personally know that built a mod motor with '99-'01 heads has been disappointed in the performance.
Yes they are usually cheaper but you get what you pay for.
'03-'04 heads are better out of the box.

[massacre]

Flat Duo Jets is on tour with Agent Orange and Reverend Horton Heat.

Sounds like the set up is legit.

Time to slowly build.

Nice. Always loved the Reverend they put on a great show. I don't think they are playing in my area though. Thanks for the heads up.

[ctrlraven]

From my research I have determine I can use a Mark 8 block, type C heads (can be found on a Lincoln contential and would have to use the Marauder upper intake upon install.

I want to build an engine over time even if it's just the long block, then put it all in, in a weekend.

Does this sound possible or am I missing something? I would put in fresh pistons and have a machine shop take care of the block after tear down. Basically, I want to build a new engine for the car that could handle boost. Nothing too big, but I would like to be back to a 12 second street car or high 11s.
Yes you can use the block and that's about it. You want 03/04 heads which were the next version AFTER type c 99/01 heads.

https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/99-c-heads-vs-03-04-heads.625895/

[Motorhead350]

Thank you!!!

You shed light on a very important subject and that is the exhaust ports. I don't want to buy new headers or modify mine, at least not right now.

Aviators are showing up in yards so that's what I'll pull from for heads.

Thanks again!

[Chayton]

On the contrary I have heard some people say great things about the B heads (maybe when theyre ported out?)

Im actually dropping a Mark VIII engine into my 2002 crown vic sport at the moment.

[Chayton]

Thank you!!!

You shed light on a very important subject and that is the exhaust ports. I don't want to buy new headers or modify mine, at least not right now.

Aviators are showing up in yards so that's what I'll pull from for heads.

Thanks again!

I heard headers for c port heads will work with b heads but not the other way around. Or something like that. ??? Im having trouble finding cheap headers for my B head motor.

[massacre]

On the contrary I have heard some people say great things about the B heads (maybe when theyre ported out?)

Im actually dropping a Mark VIII engine into my 2002 crown vic sport at the moment.

Sorry to hear that.
Unless you are John Mihovetz running 30# of boost in a track-only car, B heads are garbage.
Intake ports are way too big for street car, this is well documented all over the place. Porting them will just make that situation worse.
If twin intake ports were that great, Ford would still be making them. It was Ford's original design, trying to induce "swirl" into the combustion chamber. That is late '80s/early '90s technology, the "tumble port" C heads outperform the B heads substantially and consistently.

Dom you can use your C head headers but the B head exhaust ports are way smaller, you won't be able to reap the benefits of the huge C head exhaust port.
On a side note, I can't believe we are still talking about B head/C heads in 2017.

[Chayton]

Sorry to hear that.
Unless you are John Mihovetz running 30# of boost in a track-only car, B heads are garbage.
Intake ports are way too big for street car, this is well documented all over the place. Porting them will just make that situation worse.
If twin intake ports were that great, Ford would still be making them. It was Ford's original design, trying to induce "swirl" into the combustion chamber. That is late '80s/early '90s technology, the "tumble port" C heads outperform the B heads substantially and consistently.

Dom you can use your C head headers but the B head exhaust ports are way smaller, you won't be able to reap the benefits of the huge C head exhaust port.
On a side note, I can't believe we are still talking about B head/C heads in 2017.


Sorry to hear what?

and no youre right, I just had trouble remembering why they said they were good. It was for boost, not being ported out. 30# sounds a little extreme.

[massacre]

Sorry to hear what?

and no youre right, I just had trouble remembering why they said they were good. It was for boost, not being ported out. 30# sounds a little extreme.

Didn't mean to offend with the sorry statement, it's just that to go through all that trouble of the swap and keeping the B heads, you are leaving a lot of performance on the table, and limiting yourself quite a bit on performance parts options.
Yes 30# is extreme but that's why I said you would have to be John Mihovets to say that B heads perform well. Not sure if you guys know who he is, but he has made more power and gone faster than pretty much everyone and has been doing it for decades. Here's a motor he built for an Engine Masters build off

http://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2013/10/ford-four-valve-modular-engine-accufab-team-detail1.jpg

^^^ gotta love that airbox lol
I tried to post the pic but I think it's too big.
Looks like even Mihovetz is using C heads now.

If you're a Modular freak like me, you'll enjoy this article from the same year Engine Masters. It's a John Kaase Modular build (also with C heads) with some of the craziest headers I have ever seen in my life. He explains the reasoning for the design, and it's relationship regarding exhaust pulses and torque production in Modular engines. Motor made over 700hp over 600lb/ft and this is NA.

http://www.stangtv.com/news/jon-kaase-explains-header-design-on-engine-masters-winner/

It's the whole "swirl port VS tumble port" thing, the tumble port heads are so much better breathing heads than the swirl port.
The B head Cobra cams though have more duration, they make good power in the tumble port heads, more than the tumble port cams when degreed properly.

[massacre]

BTW
B heads on a 5.4 block work much better than on a 4.6

[Chayton]

Didn't mean to offend with the sorry statement, it's just that to go through all that trouble of the swap and keeping the B heads, you are leaving a lot of performance on the table, and limiting yourself quite a bit on performance parts options.
Yes 30# is extreme but that's why I said you would have to be John Mihovets to say that B heads perform well. Not sure if you guys know who he is, but he has made more power and gone faster than pretty much everyone and has been doing it for decades. Here's a motor he built for an Engine Masters build off

http://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2013/10/ford-four-valve-modular-engine-accufab-team-detail1.jpg

^^^ gotta love that airbox lol
I tried to post the pic but I think it's too big.
Looks like even Mihovetz is using C heads now.

If you're a Modular freak like me, you'll enjoy this article from the same year Engine Masters. It's a John Kaase Modular build (also with C heads) with some of the craziest headers I have ever seen in my life. He explains the reasoning for the design, and it's relationship regarding exhaust pulses and torque production in Modular engines. Motor made over 700hp over 600lb/ft and this is NA.

http://www.stangtv.com/news/jon-kaase-explains-header-design-on-engine-masters-winner/

It's the whole "swirl port VS tumble port" thing, the tumble port heads are so much better breathing heads than the swirl port.
The B head Cobra cams though have more duration, they make good power in the tumble port heads, more than the tumble port cams when degreed properly.

well when you put it that way, maybe. Keep in mind I said this is going into a 2002 vic, so right off the bat im picking up an additional 45 horsepower or so... for a complete motor I got for $200. Seems like a win to me. Id much rather leave it as is, change the valve covers and plop it in rather than do more work retiming the motor to gain what, 20 hp? More than happy with what Ive got. The car is going to be a drift :censor: anyways, lol.

[massacre]

well when you put it that way, maybe. Keep in mind I said this is going into a 2002 vic, so right off the bat im picking up an additional 45 horsepower or so... for a complete motor I got for $200. Seems like a win to me. Id much rather leave it as is, change the valve covers and plop it in rather than do more work retiming the motor to gain what, 20 hp? More than happy with what Ive got. The car is going to be a drift :censor: anyways, lol.

I get what you are saying. No reason not to be happy about gaining ~45 hp but you will be losing torque compared to the 2v and in a whale torque helps a whole lot, especially if you are going to drift with it.
But hey maybe it will satisfy all of your needs and wants, and if it does, good for you! But if you look into mods and go-fast parts, and I'm assuming you will want to mod it down the road since you are already doing a swap, you'll find there is just not a lot out there compared to the later stuff. I mean it can be done, but it's just so much more complicated generally speaking.
As long as you know this going in and don't have unrealistically high hopes you should be fine.
Not sure what year Mark engine you have but the '95s are notorious for having weak valve springs, they tend to break. Some '96 and 'all 97-'98 motors have same valve springs as Cobra and can rev to 7000rpm without issue.
Your powerband is going to move up considerably, I would recommend a higher than stock stall converter if you want to rev it up for drifting, this will help with torque as well.
Just my .02

[J-MAN]

I typed out a bunch of stuff but then deleted it
Prob better this way

+1
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl:

[Chayton]

I get what you are saying. No reason not to be happy about gaining ~45 hp but you will be losing torque compared to the 2v and in a whale torque helps a whole lot, especially if you are going to drift with it.
But hey maybe it will satisfy all of your needs and wants, and if it does, good for you! But if you look into mods and go-fast parts, and I'm assuming you will want to mod it down the road since you are already doing a swap, you'll find there is just not a lot out there compared to the later stuff. I mean it can be done, but it's just so much more complicated generally speaking.
As long as you know this going in and don't have unrealistically high hopes you should be fine.
Not sure what year Mark engine you have but the '95s are notorious for having weak valve springs, they tend to break. Some '96 and 'all 97-'98 motors have same valve springs as Cobra and can rev to 7000rpm without issue.
Your powerband is going to move up considerably, I would recommend a higher than stock stall converter if you want to rev it up for drifting, this will help with torque as well.
Just my .02

huh. So ill be making less torque with the 4v? I could have sworn I would be gaining horsepower AND torque.

I have a big stall in my marauder actually and not sure if I would want it in a drift application. Makes for less precise throttle control, IMO. At the most I will probably change the gears, if needed. We shall see.

You wouldnt happen to know anything about reversing the polarity on the COPS? Ive read it is necessary when doing a 4v swap. Thats the one part that concerns me.

[massacre]

Did you research this swap beforehand?
Yes the polarity needs to be swapped. It's not hard.
Tons have done it, info everywhere

[Chayton]

Did you research this swap beforehand?
Yes the polarity needs to be swapped. It's not hard.
Tons have done it, info everywhere

I did!


So how much torque will I be making approximately then!? :confused:

Thanks for the advice.

[massacre]

I'm not Nostradamus
Many factors can influence torque production
Not sure if trolling
2v generally makes more torque lower in powerband than 4v
Where are you searching that this info is not available?
I think I'm out it's been fun

[Chayton]

I'm not Nostradamus
Many factors can influence torque production
Not sure if trolling
2v generally makes more torque lower in powerband than 4v
Where are you searching that this info is not available?
I think I'm out it's been fun




I get what you are saying. No reason not to be happy about gaining ~45 hp but you will be losing torque compared to the 2v and in a whale torque helps a whole lot, especially if you are going to drift with it

:hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

Anyways end of topic. Thanks for sharing your wisdom, i will consider going back to 2v so i can get all meh torques back :(

[Zack]

I would have installed cams and headers on the 2V, over the 4V swap

[Chayton]

I would have installed cams and headers on the 2V, over the 4V swap

This is a good idea also. However I got the complete 4v for $200. 2V was in pretty poor condition from prev owner.

[massacre]

:hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

Anyways end of topic. Thanks for sharing your wisdom, i will consider going back to 2v so i can get all meh torques back :(

Don't be a smartass

There are far too many variables to pinpoint exactly how much torque you will "lose". It's a loaded question. How much are you making now? Dyno sheet?

It's more about where in the powerband you will make peak torque, not necessarily how much you will make. 2v makes it much lower in the powerband than 4v.
At least on stock motors.

How will you operate the IMRCs on your B heads? If you are going to delete them, you just made your torque problem worse.

But you already knew that

[GoldPanther]

Dom, you can put a complete mark 8 engine in your marauder, it will bolt right up, I believe you have to reuse your current oil pan. You will encounter many issues you'll have to fix and make work. For one you will have to figure out what to do with the ignition system since the mark 8 engine ran spark plug wires and coil packs and it was controlled with an ignition control module unlike the marauder the pcm. I heard that you can use 03 valve caps and you will be able to use your current coil on plugs (COP) syste, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, the intake air inlet whole is facing in the rear of the engine or the left side, so making the intake fictional will require you to relocate the battery etc. I read somewhere that the oil pump was revised in a certain year I believe was on 98, so you may want to look for the latest one possible.

[maximusslade]

Dom, you can put a complete mark 8 engine in your marauder, it will bolt right up, I believe you have to reuse your current oil pan. You will encounter many issues you'll have to fix and make work. For one you will have to figure out what to do with the ignition system since the mark 8 engine ran spark plug wires and coil packs and it was controlled with an ignition control module unlike the marauder the pcm. I heard that you can use 03 valve caps and you will be able to use your current coil on plugs (COP) syste, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, the intake air inlet whole is facing in the rear of the engine or the left side, so making the intake fictional will require you to relocate the battery etc. I read somewhere that the oil pump was revised in a certain year I believe was on 98, so you may want to look for the latest one possible.


The 1997 and 1998 MkVIIIs used Coils on Plugs like the Vics and Marauders. The polarity may or may not be different, I do not know for sure, but I do know the Lincoln part number for coils IS DIFFERENT than that of the Ford part number and I also know for a fact that the COPs from the 99/01 Lincoln heads WILL NOT plug into a Marauder harness. You will need to keep the original Lincoln harness and swap plugs or slice wires or whatever it is you need to do to make it work.

[Chayton]

Don't be a smartass

There are far too many variables to pinpoint exactly how much torque you will "lose". It's a loaded question. How much are you making now? Dyno sheet?

It's more about where in the powerband you will make peak torque, not necessarily how much you will make. 2v makes it much lower in the powerband than 4v.
At least on stock motors.

How will you operate the IMRCs on your B heads? If you are going to delete them, you just made your torque problem worse.

But you already knew that

lol alright dude, I said the conversation was over, and thank you. You dont need to get butt hurt, let alone repeat yourself. Give it a rest.

[massacre]

lol alright dude, I said the conversation was over, and thank you. You dont need to get butt hurt, let alone repeat yourself. Give it a rest.

Comments like this ^^^ are why I no longer post here.

Good luck with your garbage B head motor, don't know why I even bother.

[maximusslade]

Why do we have to be like this?

[Drewstang]

Because people ask questions, get answers they don't like from guys who can do this stuff in their sleep, then can't figure out why something won't work or it underperforms.

[Logizyme]

Comments like this ^^^ are why I no longer post here.

Good luck with your garbage B head motor, don't know why I even bother.


Because people ask questions, get answers they don't like from guys who can do this stuff in their sleep, then can't figure out why something won't work or it underperforms.

These exactly

[Motorhead350]

LOL I love this car nerd talk. Arguing over heads. hahahahaha

Thanks for the newly acquired knowledge and humor.

[ByronRACE]

Why not pick up a complete 03 Cobra engine? They range from $3500-8K depending on miles and condition. There's a burned one on car-parts.com right now for $3500 bucks complete with blower and all. You don't need the electrical bits. If they're offering it for sale, the fire didn't destroy the important parts. Or, a complete low-mile aviator engine for 1.6-2K and build it from there. I don't think it's going to prove to be worth it to take a harder path.

[massacre]

LOL I love this car nerd talk. Arguing over heads. hahahahaha

Thanks for the newly acquired knowledge and humor.


I was trying to post facts.
And you're welcome for the knowledge.

[massacre]

Dom, you can put a complete mark 8 engine in your marauder, it will bolt right up, I believe you have to reuse your current oil pan. You will encounter many issues you'll have to fix and make work. For one you will have to figure out what to do with the ignition system since the mark 8 engine ran spark plug wires and coil packs and it was controlled with an ignition control module unlike the marauder the pcm. I heard that you can use 03 valve caps and you will be able to use your current coil on plugs (COP) syste, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, the intake air inlet whole is facing in the rear of the engine or the left side, so making the intake fictional will require you to relocate the battery etc. I read somewhere that the oil pump was revised in a certain year I believe was on 98, so you may want to look for the latest one possible.

So much wrong in this post I think my mind exploded

Dom just go to the Lincoln boards if you want info on MarkVIII engines.

[71cyclone]

Why not pick up a complete 03 Cobra engine? They range from $3500-8K depending on miles and condition. There's a burned one on car-parts.com right now for $3500 bucks complete with blower and all. You don't need the electrical bits. If they're offering it for sale, the fire didn't destroy the important parts. Or, a complete low-mile aviator engine for 1.6-2K and build it from there. I don't think it's going to prove to be worth it to take a harder path.
This year at Carlisle ,Coyote conversions were scattered. The Lincolns of distinction club had 2 Mark VIII Coyote conversions ,looked factory. There has been a Converted p71 Vic and a Marauder posted on this sight as well.:burnout:

[GoldPanther]

So much wrong in this post I think my mind exploded

.

:violin: :violin:

[massacre]

:violin: :violin:


This response had more good info than your previous.
Nice job keep up the good work

[GoldPanther]

This response had more good info than your previous.
Nice job keep up the good work

:violin::violin:

[Joe Walsh]

OK guys....give it a rest!
Dom always wants to do something the hard way....
and then ignores everyone's advise.!
Doesn't mean fellow members need to get in a pissing contest.
Let Dom put a FWD Lincoln V8 in his Marauder.

[massacre]

Helpful responses to this thread-

massacre = +7
Dan Mitchell = -3

But if it's creating a problem I will stop posting out of respect for you Joe.
EDIT: ^^^ BTW this is not sarcastic just want to be clear

[Chayton]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[maximusslade]

Tell y'all what. I will put my Teksid blocked engine, with C heads, '01 cobra cams, and Marauder intake into my car and then to the dyno and we can all see what the curve looks like. Sound good to y'all?

[massacre]

With the '01 cams you will make less power than with '96-'98 cams.
Prob ~20-25hp throughout the powerband. Of course these would be degreed cams, advancing the intake cams and retarding the exhaust cams.

Stock Teksid won't make any difference at this power level, but is 15lb heavier than stock WAP block.

Also Maximus the Teksid knock sensors will interfere with the MM lower intake. It's possible to use bushings to install the later 90 degree knock sensors, but I just left them off and had them turned off in the tune.

massacre = +8

I guess what I am not understanding is the debate on this issue. There is information about this very subject all over the Internet. This isn't my opinion, these are facts based on my personal experience building Modular engines since 2003- both B and C heads, and others' experience as well regarding the B and C heads.
SVTP, Corral, M1R, etc are filled with this same information that I am posting here.
So while some may like or dislike my responses, they are based on facts and easily verifiable. Not liking the info or the person posting it, doesn't make the info wrong lol.
:beer:

[maximusslade]

For me the debate ins't about which parts are "better" than others. Yes, the 03 heads are better than the C heads, which are in turn better than the B heads. Yes the 98 cams are the most desirable, followed by the 01 cams (based on what I've read in various forums) But what comes with "better" is the $$$$ 98 cams are not super rare, but not easy to find, and when you do, I could have paid for a set or two of after market cams. 03 heads are "better" but also carry a price tag of about $1000 a head, and that is before all the other work you guys sugget pouring into the heads.

For me, this was a budget build, firstly cause I am a single dad, secondly, I am learning as I go along. I found the heads on a scrap pile, from a Continential that was about to head to the shredder. I picked up the entire engine for $100. The MKVIII engine, I traded an old lawn mower for it. My rear end I pulled out of a P71 that was also headed for the shredder.

As for the power I expect out of this thing? I degreed the cams according to a folks, like you, who were more than willing to share their experience and knowledge with me. I gave the guys at Mo's Speed Shop a ring to ask about a tune. After some conversation I asked them given what I told them, what kind of numbers I'd be looking at. Their response was about 310HP at the crank, give or take. If I get that, which seems reasonable, then I am at the same place that a stock Marauder is with the WAP block and 03 heads and cams.

If some 03 heads and 98 cams fall in my lap... hell yeah they'd be going in the car, but they didn't.

[massacre]

I totally get that.
Just providing the info so that others that might read this will come away with accurate information.
My statements weren't regarding you Maximus, as you were polite and respectful in your responses. It was regarding Dan Mitchell and Chayton, who were impolite and disrespectful in their responses, and basically contributed nothing useful to the thread.

I do see used C heads for $6-700 which isn't a budget item but def cheaper than $1000. I bought my first set of C heads 14 years ago for $1500 so believe me I understand this. Your C heads are actually a great value, because you will get more enjoyment out of them than if you had gone with B heads instead.
Anyone going through the the trouble and expense of building an engine wants to get the most out of it. Sure B heads are cheaper initially, but to get the same performance there is a lot more involved in both time and money.

A lot of people try and act like B heads are a "budget build" but in reality they really aren't. Believe me I went pretty far down that road and by relaying this information, I am trying to avoid others going through the same aggravation.
I tried C heads with B intake, B heads with C intake, with IMRCs and without, you name it. The best performance came from C heads with Mach1 intake (same as MM but with intake facing pass side). I have a set of the super rare "Conti plates" which allow head/intake combinations that would be impossible otherwise (except for 1-off custom $$$ pieces).

Sure you can get a cheap MarkVIII intech B head engine for cheap, but what can you really use from the engine? Not the oil pan. Not the stock exhaust manifolds, since the driver's side has a catalytic converter welded to it. Keeping the IMRCs? How will you control them? They require constant cleaning as well, the secondary butterflies and the tops of the valves get all gummed up. If you delete them power will suffer. MM never had B heads so good luck getting a MM upper intake lid to fit on a B head lower intake, B heads either had it facing driver's side or way in the back under the wiper cowl. B head cam covers are a problem with MM intake because the PCV ports are smack dab in the middle which interferes with the upper intake, whereas the MM and other C head cars have the PCV ports staggered (1 side in front, 1 side in back) so that there is no interference with the intake lid.

Most B head cars also had waste spark coil packs mounted to the timing cover, and spark plug wires. Another problem to figure out: ignition. Depending on what year Panther you are swapping into, it could end up being a PITA. Personally I kept the coil packs for several reasons, cost and reliability and better performance mostly. But I relocated the coil packs to the firewall to eliminate the spaghetti mess of plug wires on the engine. You can't even see my plug wires. My car also has the proper ECM to use that style ignition.
C head COPs won't fit B cam covers and COP covers, and plug wires look like crap with C cam covers.

Having C heads eliminates all of the IMRC nonsense of the B heads as well as enabling the use of the MM intake which has no IMRCs and has the TB facing the right direction for Panther chassis. Cam covers have the PCV ports in the correct place. C head longtubes for Panther chassis are readily available, B head longtubes are not. Big mismatch of exhaust port so the full potential will not be seen, again we want the most from our dollars spent. So many reasons why the Bs are not really a bargain unless you are installing them into the car that they came with stock. For installation into Panther chassis, anything is possible but if $200 is all you can budget for heads, spending a ton of additional money to make them work is gonna shock a lot of ppl who thought that it would be a cheap, easy swap.
And to make low power on top of it is a real kick in the nuts after all of that work.
C heads work better and are bolt-ons. Everything fits as it should, parts are plentiful and time-tested as can be seen right here on this forum. All of the MM stuff will bolt right up and make an easier, cheaper swap in the end.
massacre = +9

BTW Maximus I totally support your build, PM me if there's anything I can help with.
:beer:

[GoldPanther]

^lmao
Instead of telling me that your mind exploded you could have corrected me since I said someone correct me if I'm wrong. That was very impolite from your end, but I know you already so it doesn't surprise me.
Now please, please don't pm me with all your vulgarity as you always do when you lose control over yourself. Last time I said that I would never get in an argument with you because I respected you but it seems that you just couldn't avoid bashing me in front of everyone. Mhe this is just funny to me I won't lose sleep over it so please continue counting negavite points on me. :violin:

[loud2004marquis]

I like Marauders

[FordNut]

The cost of gaskets and time involved in a re-do is enough for me to want everything to be just right before assembling an engine.

[massacre]

^lmao
Instead of telling me that your mind exploded you could have corrected me since I said someone correct me if I'm wrong. That was very impolite from your end, but I know you already so it doesn't surprise me.
Now please, please don't pm me with all your vulgarity as you always do when you lose control over yourself. Last time I said that I would never get in an argument with you because I respected you but it seems that you just couldn't avoid bashing me in front of everyone. Mhe this is just funny to me I won't lose sleep over it so please continue counting negavite points on me. :violin:

Dan Mitchell -4

Dan if you have nothing technical or helpful on the thread topic maybe you can take your diatribe to some other thread. I am not playing this game with you.
Thanks

[massacre]

The cost of gaskets and time involved in a re-do is enough for me to want everything to be just right before assembling an engine.

I agree completely.
Nothing wrong with wanting things to go as smooth as possible.

[a_d_a_m]

Dom's question has been answered.