Looking for advice for my 'diesel' MM...

[looking97233]

Okay folks I am looking for advice from any who have been here.

The evil valve tick invaded my MM last year sometime, it now has 22,600mi on the clock and has been getting steadly louder. My dealer at first said it was just the injectors. After several months of my saying "it's not the injectors" and them saying "yes it is," it had gotten bad enough that the service writer said "you're right, it's not the injectors." The service writer said he didn't trust any of his techs to get into my motor, so he refered me to a ford dealer. I went to this other dealer, had a long conversation with the shop foreman. Guess what? He builds and road races cobras. I thought cool, I came to the right place. Initally the shop foreman said it should be covered by the cobra recall since the two cars share the same part # for the heads. Later that week I got a call for him, he said that he had a lengthy conversation with an engineer from the engine plant (said he was on the phone with him for over an hour, couldn't get away from him) anyway the engineer said that the revisied head does not address the cooling issue, that they are aware of the problem, and are working on it. So, he(the shop foreman) tells me that replacing the head will not fix the problem, it will just show back up, therefore they do not want to do anything untill ford comes out with a fix.

Having said that, I now have smoke on start-up, sound like a diesel, and have began to notice my fuel useage go up. What worries me is the last time I recall hearing this from ford "we are aware of the problem, and are working on a fix" was for the 96'-99' Tarus SHO. The cam drive sprokets were a spline fit with no key-way. At about 70,000mi. the cam sprokets started slipping on the cams. Ford kept saying they were working on a fix, they never did fix it.

Any advice or help on this would be appreciated.
I really do hate it, I love this car so much, I'm willing to put up with all this
bu**s**t that I shouldn't have to with a new car.

Thanks,
Rod.
Portland, Oregon.

[Constable]

Sorry to say, but you have to wait...

I had my head replaced in the first week of April. The tick came back worse than ever after 1,000 miles. The Romeo plant rep told my service manager the same thing. We just have to have faith in Ford, that's all.

[David Morton]

Have a look at this...


http://www.mercurymarauder.org/cgi-bin/immc-chat.cgi?resource=General&private=&title=&sub_title=&sub_title2=&mode=read&index=5095


Hope the link works.

[CRUZTAKER]

Join the club man. :down:

I thought there was a solution as well, but everyone that did adjustments or head replacements has had the noise come back over time. This is probably why customer service is now making us wait.

Bummer too, cause not everyone can wait 7 years like me, when that 3 year warranty is up and Ford is still pickin' their arses....many will be out of luck.

I have saved every thread on this subject, and spoken to everyone involved as well. Here are my findings:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=131632#post13 1632

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8956

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8351

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9935

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8185&page=1&highlight=tta197

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7362&page=3

[TripleTransAm]

What worries me is the last time I recall hearing this from ford "we are aware of the problem, and are working on a fix" was for the 96'-99' Tarus SHO. The cam drive sprokets were a spline fit with no key-way. At about 70,000mi. the cam sprokets started slipping on the cams. Ford kept saying they were working on a fix, they never did fix it.


Money talks... if it does turn out that the MM becomes another Ford b*stard child and we get left out in the cold with this issue, I think it's safe to say that Ford will never get another penny of my money (and that will include any Ford-related company like Mazda, Volvo, Jag, etc...), ever. This is my first Ford product ever, and only the second in my immediate family... the previous one was a complete and utter disaster for my dad. So there is a lot riding on this car for me, and my future choice of cars.

I hope someone in engineering gets to read this... with me, buyer loyalty is earned, not taken for granted.

[EbonyMarauder03]

I feel all of your pains. Sad to say I work at a dealer. I regularly check for TSB's or any other info on our cars. Nothing. After reading what others have been able to find out I'm not surprised. The MM is just like the SHO, a limited production car. The sad part is there are cars and trucks of higher production numbers with unsolved problems. All we hear is wait. I feel Ford will not be in the top 3 much longer with things the way they are going. Worse yet they refuse to listen to the dealers who are on the frontline dealing with the design or manufacturing problems. All I can do is wait for the fix to come out.

[MENINBLK]

Everyone has to post their problems with NHTSA.
This is where you START.
NHTSA has to take enough interest in the problem after seeing the problem re-occuring
with definite reproductability, in order to merit an investigation.
How do you think the 2000 Focus got so many recalls ???
If the NHTSA investigation merits a recall, they will FORCE Ford to call a recall.
This mechanical failure can lead to a catastrophic engine failure, which can cause an accident.
If NHSTA can come to that conclusion in their investigation, then they will be on our side.

If after posting with NHTSA, nothing becomes of it, then we look to start a Class Action lawsuit.
This would require all of us to get our wallets together and meet with Marty.

[RCSignals]

The big difference between the Taurus SHO and Marauder, is the SHO had a one off special engine.
The Marauder uses an existing proven engine. Why this would be such a hard thing for Ford to fix, or why it doesn't affect Cobras, new or older, is odd. Just make sure everything you are doing with Ford now is documented if the "fix" goes beyond warranty.

Steve, has your "tick" come back, or did the head replacement do it for you?

[looking97233]

RC correct me if I am wrong but aren't the 3.8L V8(Lincoln LS) and the 3.8L, 4.0L, and the new 4.2L motors used by Jag the same design as the 3.4L V8 from the Taurus SHO. I know the SHO had a complicated and pretty dual intake runner set-up, but I thought that all the mod motors were brothers, from the 2.5L and 3.0L DOHC V6's, the 3.4L, 3.8L, 4.0L and, 4.2L DOHC V8's and of course our 4.6L and the 5.4L DOHC V8. I know each has it's differences but, they all did come from the same drawing board...right?

[TripleTransAm]

Steve, has your "tick" come back, or did the head replacement do it for you?


Something is back... not anywhere near the severity or intensity of the original tick, but something is audible, and it's definitely from the same area as the original tick from hell. I can swear it was quiet immediately after the job was done, and sometime this spring it has developed. If it was anywhere near as severe as what I had last year, I'd be screaming bloody murder but it's still loud enough to mildly piss me off.

Is there a difference in the cooling system between the MM and the Cobra? I thought I remembered reading some quote from Jerry W about "in the Marauder, the problem is worse..." or something similar, while discussing the 4.6l DOHC's cooling issue at the back of the head. Keep in mind that the original silent recall was targeted to the Cobra only, and we had to fight an uphill battle to get them to include the identical Marauder head in the recall. So I too wonder if the Cobras are finding themselves with recurring ticks.

Which reminds me... how nice of Ford, when we've rallied behind this car even when they abandoned it, to be considerate enough to care about our ultimate satisfaction over resolving this valve guide issue. Money talks, and my memory's not cheap, and it'll take a long time before I forget being considered a second class customer next to a Cobra owner. :up:

RC: proven engine? I'll remember that every time I spot that puff of oil smoke on startup (yes, I've got that too, since the ticking returned).

[MENINBLK]

RC correct me if I am wrong but aren't the 3.8L V8(Lincoln LS) and the 3.8L, 4.0L, and the new 4.2L motors used by Jag the same design as the 3.4L V8 from the Taurus SHO. I know the SHO had a complicated and pretty dual intake runner set-up, but I thought that all the mod motors were brothers, from the 2.5L and 3.0L DOHC V6's, the 3.4L, 3.8L, 4.0L and, 4.2L DOHC V8's and of course our 4.6L and the 5.4L DOHC V8. I know each has it's differences but, they all did come from the same drawing board...right?

The 3.4L SHO V8 engine was designed and built by YAMAHA for Ford.

The Duratec V6, 2.5L and 3.0L, is designed by Porsche for Ford.

The modular engines came before the Duratec, and I think, I might be wrong,
but the modular engines were designed to share a lot of the integral parts
with only the major differences being the parts that make then engines
volumetrically different.

[RCSignals]

RC correct me if I am wrong but aren't the 3.8L V8(Lincoln LS) and the 3.8L, 4.0L, and the new 4.2L motors used by Jag the same design as the 3.4L V8 from the Taurus SHO. I know the SHO had a complicated and pretty dual intake runner set-up, but I thought that all the mod motors were brothers, from the 2.5L and 3.0L DOHC V6's, the 3.4L, 3.8L, 4.0L and, 4.2L DOHC V8's and of course our 4.6L and the 5.4L DOHC V8. I know each has it's differences but, they all did come from the same drawing board...right?
the Taurus SHO that has had some problems, (and from what I gather, even from reading the site of complaints, the problem is rare occurring) was assembled by Yamaha
A I understand, the Engine was a collaborative effort, some parts Yamaha, and some of the castings, such as the block, done by Ford and shipped to Yamaha

[junehhan]

On the 3.4 litre v8 SHO motor, the block was cast by Ford, while Yamaha built everything else. The block for this motor was based on the 2.5 litre Duratec V6, with 2 extra pistons if i'm correct. As far as some of Ford's other modular motors go, it's the 3.9 litre Lincoln LS/T-bird V8 that shares it's design with the 4.0 litre(now 4.2 litre) Jaguar V8. These v8's feature variable valve timing from what I understand.

As far as this ticking issue goes, i've been told by my dealer that according to the last time they talked with the Ford hotline, that Ford is well aware of this issue as they are noted MANY complaints about it. They said that Ford is investigating a fix at this time, and that they've been told to wait since a fix will be out. What I say, is let's not give up hope, because I honestly think Ford will offer a fix for us. This is a motor that has basically been around for a long time now, while the v8sho guys had a unique one of a kind motor that was built by another company(everything except for the block). Our motors however, are 100% Ford and i'm confident that they'll make things right for us. However, reporting this issue to the NHTSA as someone mentioned, would be a good idea to make sure that they are aware of the issue as well as Ford is.

[RCSignals]

As far as this ticking issue goes, i've been told by my dealer that according to the last time they talked with the Ford hotline, that Ford is well aware of this issue as they are noted MANY complaints about it. They said that Ford is investigating a fix at this time, and that they've been told to wait since a fix will be out. What I say, is let's not give up hope, because I honestly think Ford will offer a fix for us. This is a motor that has basically been around for a long time now, while the v8sho guys had a unique one of a kind motor that was built by another company(everything except for the block).
Exactly. As I said, document everything, so if the "fix "doesn't appear until after warranty, you have evidence the problem was known before.

That's what i mean by the engine being proven. I understand the engine in the Marauder is essencially the aluminum Cobra block, and other bits.

[MENINBLK]

On the 3.4 litre v8 SHO motor, the block was cast by Ford, while Yamaha built everything else. The block for this motor was based on the 2.5 litre Duratec V6, with 2 extra pistons if i'm correct.

The Yamaha SHO V8 is a 90 deg engine.
The Duratec V6 is a 60 deg engine.

How do you compare a 90 deg block to a 60 deg block ?

The 3.4L is a collaborative effort between Ford and Yamaha.

The 2.5L and 3.0L Duratec is based on the Porsche Dual Runner intake technology.
The Yamaha V8 doesn't use long and short intake runners.
They are all equal length.
The only thing the Duratec is missing from the Porsche design is Porsche's Variable Valve timing technology.

The Duratec uses long runners at low rpm and both runners at higher rpm.

[looking97233]

The motor built by Yamaha was a 3.2L 24V DOHC V6 used from 1992-1995 I believe. This is a one off. The 3.4L DOHC V8 modular motor used from 1996-1999 in the taurus sho is very simmilar to the 2.5 and 3.0L V6 mod motors.

Neither here nor there, we be off topic.
Thanks for everyone's advice, thoughts and, opinions.

[junehhan]

Pete, the V8 SHO motor I believe is a 60 degree setup just like the 2.5 litre Duratec. It also uses a dual stage intake setup in which you have a set of secondary intake runners which opens up at 3500rpms(sounds really good too). In fact, it has the same bore, stroke, bore spacing as well as similar pistons and connecting rods as the Duratec. If the v8sho motor was 90 degree's, there would have been no way it could fit into the engine bay of the Taurus back then. As far as it being a joint effort, you are right as the block was cast by Ford, and then shipped off to Yamaha for the rest of the stuff.

So that i'm not too far off topic, it's kinda interesting how my noise has evolved. Initially, this was a tap-tap-tap type noise, only to change to a real ticking type noise several thousand miles ago. Now, it's turned into a clicking type noise which a very metallic sound.

[paul hersom]

Let's hope that they do connect the dots on this an any other engine quirks. As I understand, this engine is in the Mach 1, the Cobra, and somewhere in the truck/van line so can they abandon all those owners?

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Wouldn't this ticking problem be covered by The Lemon Law if they can't fix it ? Also, I thought our engines are only similar to the Mach 1's.

[Krytin]

I think these engines started out with a slightly different intake & throttle body on the Lincoln Mark VIII's - 32 valve Inteks. They had simillar hp & performance.
Now for the part that I know I'm going to regret - I'm up to almost 27k miles and no ticks or oil smoke! Now I've done it! Tomorrow morning I fully expect to hear the tick and see the smoke!

[mrogerc]

RC correct me if I am wrong but aren't the 3.8L V8(Lincoln LS) and the 3.8L, 4.0L, and the new 4.2L motors used by Jag the same design as the 3.4L V8 from the Taurus SHO. I know the SHO had a complicated and pretty dual intake runner set-up, but I thought that all the mod motors were brothers, from the 2.5L and 3.0L DOHC V6's, the 3.4L, 3.8L, 4.0L and, 4.2L DOHC V8's and of course our 4.6L and the 5.4L DOHC V8. I know each has it's differences but, they all did come from the same drawing board...right?

The 4.0 (now 4.2) liter engine is a Jaguar-designed engine, detuned for the Lincoln LS. The Duratec V6 was used in my 2000 Lincoln LS manual, and appears in the Jaguar X- and S-types with VVT to make it quite a bit more powerful.

I was always bummed that they used the Jag engine in the LS. While I can understand the cost savings, and I would have bought a V8 if it came with a manual tranny, if they used the 4.6 modular engine they could have offered maximum performance on the LS without having to create artificial "headroom" between it and the S-type.

[mrogerc]

As I read this thread I find myself becoming nervous about adding a supercharger to my Marauder.

If I add the blower, and then the noise appears, am I simply out of luck from a warranty perspective?

How common is the ticking noise problem, and after how many miles does it generally appear?

[jstevens]

From what I remember, our engine is used in the 2001 Cobra and the Aviator line. I would also be interested to hear what dealerships have to say when they see a blower installed.

[MENINBLK]

Pete, the V8 SHO motor I believe is a 60 degree setup just like the 2.5 litre Duratec.

junehan,

The Yamaha V8 SHO is a 90 deg V8.
The Duratecs are a 60 deg V6.

Many Contour/Focus owners looked at the feasability of putting this engine into the Contour and the Focus.
While it DOES fit under the hood of just about any year Taurus/Sable,
it won't fit in a Contour/Focus, but the Duratec DOES fit into a Focus.

[TooManyFords]

junehan,
Many Contour/Focus owners looked at the feasability of putting this engine into the Contour and the Focus.
While it DOES fit under the hood of just about any year Taurus/Sable,
it won't fit in a Contour/Focus, but the Duratec DOES fit into a Focus.

Actually, the SHO motor does fit in the -back- of a Ford Festiva...

http://www.fordfestiva.com/gallery/grassroots_festiva_shogun.htm

It has got to be one scary ride!

John

[FiveO]

I have a V8 SHO.

Great car. The only problem with the engines is that they have been prone to catastrophic cam shaft failures.

Repair costs for people who've had this failure is minimum $3-4K, some in upwards of $7K....depending on which stealer you take it to.

The V8 SHO community came up with a failsafe alternative....welding the camshafts to the sprocket.

I had mine welded in December 2002 by a V8 SHO expert in Massachusetts. Cost was $600...but the peace of mind is great.

There has never been a documented failure of a welded camshaft. There has been a failure of a "pinned" camshaft that was pinned by the now defunct SHOSHOP in California.

Great highway cars...good mileage, very comfortable.

Just time for me to move on. Hoping to get mine sold in the next week or so. I have 2 people getting close...one made an offer but won't return emails.


Can't wait to pick up a MM.