Meziere WP

[Svashtar]

Just a follow-up from someone that used to be on this forum all the time. You can check my sig line for all the stuff I did to my '03 MM. FYI, my original Meziere WP lasted 9000 miles, and failed at about 27K.

They replaced it, and the new one failed 80,000 miles later. I called Meziere and they told me "Sorry 'bout that!" and did I want to buy a new one. IMO their product is crap.

They used to say their pumps were rated for 250,000 miles. Now they say 3000 hours. At only 40 MPH that's 120,000 miles minimum. At 3000 hours that means that I just drove my car an average of 27 MPH. Right.

Two WP bearing failures in 107,000 miles. I have the OEM one in the trunk so will go back to stock, just giving you all my experience. Believe me, Meziere doesn't care.

I've spent enough on my MM mods, some good, some bad. For the HP gains vs trouble, I should have probably stuck with the stock WP.


Thanks,

Norm

P.S. A few years ago I remember reading about another alternative, Stewart I think it was? Thanks for any info on other WP options beyond stock or Meziere.

[RubberCtyRauder]

EMP Stewart and edelbrock have a water pump avail.

[Marauderjack]

OEM pumps are perfectly adequate.....save you $$$'s for something more meaningful!!:beer::D

[fastblackmerc]

OEM pumps are perfectly adequate.....save you $$$'s for something more meaningful!!:beer::D

That ^^^^^^^^^^^^ right there...

I learned the hard way...


TWSS!

[2,4shofast]

I ran a Meziere WP for about 3 years but I was always concerned about it failing. I ended up going with a Stewart EMP pump as it is supposed to take less HP to spin it, never compared it to the OEM on a dyno so Im not sure of the claims. But I have been happy with the EMP pump.

[stevengerard]

Mine went after less than 20k. I'm sure I lost 5hp going back to stock but who cares.

[Black Terror]

Mine was still working well after 15 years and 75000 miles when I sold the vehicle.

[Svashtar]

Thanks guys. I have the original OEM pump in a plastic bag for the last few years, but my mechanic recommends not installing it. He's built some world class Fords with engines up to 1150 HP and won a bunch of drag racing titles, so I will go with his recommendation. He says that he's noticed that even with WP with very few miles, that after they've sat out of the car for a while they tend to fail more quickly after reinstall.

I was just going to pick up another OEM one on Rockauto, but will take a look at the Stewart. Right now I have a Steeda underdrive pulley on the OEM WP, so would want to transfer that over and use the same belt.

Tnx.

Norm

[ByronRACE]

I don't find this very shocking, nor alarming. My Marauder has consumed (4) OEM water pumps in 216K miles. My '93 Ford Mustang Cobra ate 3 by the time it his 70K miles. My '93 Ford Lightning ate 3 by the time it hit 100K miles. My 96 Dodge Dakota ate 4 in 160K miles. My Cummins 5.9 Powered RV ate 3 in 130K miles.

As far as stewart pumps go...pay close attention to how they're built. The stewart pumps that use the OEM casting and simply weld on a "better" sheet metal impeller are prone to premature impeller failure; the impeller shears off. Two of the pumps in my lightning were Stewart pumps of this design; and failed in that manner.

...seems pretty normal to me.

[Svashtar]

Thanks. Please let me know if you know of a good source for an OEM WP.

I checked Rockauto, and for the MM they offer the ACDelco and the Select (new) Cardone, both for less than $40. I have to believe those are "made in China" prices.

The Mercury dealer is going to bend me over, so I'd prefer not to deal with them for this part.

Tnx.

Norm

[RubberCtyRauder]

try tascaparts.com. .oem parts at much better pricing thru tasca ford.

[Svashtar]

Thanks, when it comes to the engine I generally try to go with an OEM part. Appreciate the link.

[Turbov6Bryan]

I want to know this, did the idler pulley bearing fail? As in the electrical portion of this water pump is working fine, its just the BELT tension side that failed?
Can i buy it? I want to mock it up for a non water pump setup. ie a alternator and crank only setup.


think it over
thank you!

[Svashtar]

I want to know this, did the idler pulley bearing fail? As in the electrical portion of this water pump is working fine, its just the BELT tension side that failed?
Can i buy it? I want to mock it up for a non water pump setup. ie a alternator and crank only setup.


think it over
thank you!



There is a bearing going out, but as far as I know it has nothing to do with the idler pulley, because the bad rattling sound it's making does it with they key on, whether the car is running or not.

I honestly never even considered the idler pulley bearing as an issue because of the engine off / key on test. In fact, that's the only way I figured out it was going, because you can barely hear it rattling with the engine running.

I seldom cool the car with the engine off / key on, but it's nice in an overheating situation to be able to run 55 GPM thru the block with the engine off, which is one reason I got the Meziere.

I can tell you that it's the exact same problem and sound as with the first one that failed, and Meziere described that to me basically as the bearing failing because water got to it.

If you still want the pump, please PM me, and we can work something out.

Tnx.

Norm


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[massacre]

Meziere pump life is measured in hours, not miles
Just FYI

Are you guys using distiller water in your cooling systems? I do and don't have a lot of problems
YMMV

[Svashtar]

I know, as I stated in my OP. They're measured in hours now, 3000. When I bought the pump they advertised 250,000 miles. Even so, this one failed somewhere less than 2000 hours, based on the mileage and my average commute speed over that time.

I don't add water to my cooling system at all, just Pennzoil 50/50 premixed anti-freeze.

I'll check and see what they want to rebuild it, but in the meantime am putting an OEM pump back in.


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[Svashtar]

As a follow-up, just FYI, heard from Meziere and they will rebuild it for $150 plus S&H,

A new WP346 sells for something like $450, so I might get this one rebuilt then sell it at a discount to some local guys here to recoup some $, we'll see.

In the meantime I already ordered a new OEM one from Tasca for about half that, $78 rather than get one of the cheaper OEM equivalent pumps from RockAuto. I was looking at the Stewart EMP pump for about $120 on Summit, but read a couple of stories about them failing early on and poor customer support from Stewart.

I also read enough to know that although it's a decent WP, that the RWHP claims were wildly exaggerated. From what I can determine, the Stewart pushes about 6% more water, not 15% more, and uses about 2.8 HP instead of the stock 3 HP. Some folks were claiming that the OEM pump used 15 HP while the Stewart used just over 2 HP in parasitic drag, which just ain't so on either count. The Meziere claims it saves about 4 HP, which is about right (the only problem being they can't seem to keep water out of their bearings. ;))

Also, faster water flow means marginally less time in the radiator cooling off, so I think the OEM will be fine.

BTW, the only time I've deviated from Motorcraft parts is on some of the electrical components. I changed out the Blower Motor Speed Control twice, and finally went with something other than MC with beefier circuitry, which has been going strong for several years.

[massacre]

I have an Evans water pump it flows like crazy
Flows more that Stewart and Meziere.
Increased flow is fine as long as the cooling system is built with that in mind.

[fastblackmerc]

As a follow-up, just FYI, heard from Meziere and they will rebuild it for $150 plus S&H,

A new WP346 sells for something like $450, so I might get this one rebuilt then sell it at a discount to some local guys here to recoup some $, we'll see.

In the meantime I already ordered a new OEM one from Tasca for about half that, $78 rather than get one of the cheaper OEM equivalent pumps from RockAuto. I was looking at the Stewart EMP pump for about $120 on Summit, but read a couple of stories about them failing early on and poor customer support from Stewart.

I also read enough to know that although it's a decent WP, that the RWHP claims were wildly exaggerated. From what I can determine, the Stewart pushes about 6% more water, not 15% more, and uses about 2.8 HP instead of the stock 3 HP. Some folks were claiming that the OEM pump used 15 HP while the Stewart used just over 2 HP in parasitic drag, which just ain't so on either count. The Meziere claims it saves about 4 HP, which is about right (the only problem being they can't seem to keep water out of their bearings. ;))

Also, faster water flow means marginally less time in the radiator cooling off, so I think the OEM will be fine.

BTW, the only time I've deviated from Motorcraft parts is on some of the electrical components. I changed out the Blower Motor Speed Control twice, and finally went with something other than MC with beefier circuitry, which has been going strong for several years.

I repair BCM's for much less than you can buy new. Even a new one will fail.

[Svashtar]

Thanks, believe I read your post (or perhaps someone else's) on that years ago, and did my best to resolder the failed BCM. After that, it worked for a little over another year, then failed again. I'm sure you would have got longer out of it, but I was tired of messing with it so went with an Airtex part, which is still doing well.


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[Svashtar]

Food for thought, I spent 2 hours tonight reading cooling mod and WP posts clear back to 2005, trying to remember the recommendations and thoughts on products back then.

The vast majority of posters heavily favored the Meziere WP, talking about gains of 12-15 HP, and a service life of 150,000 miles on average. That's why I wanted one. Made sense to me.

Like I said, I loved the overall quality of the pump, but two failures an average of 45,000 miles apart, both for the internal impeller bearing is too much. Now the pendulum has swung back to the mechanical side.

I also was trying to see the transition on the rear engine cooling mods. I see Zack has the latest and greatest. I have one of the original DR "useless" cooling mods (as one poster in 2013 called it), and it seems like it's been doing a good job. The obvious negative is that it is a beyotch to access. My mechanic wasn't too specific, but he wasn't happy with part of it while installing it, and told me he refabbed / rebent the back pipe to fit back there better. That was 85K miles ago. If it ever fails it's going to take some work to get back there.

If it had been available then I would have gone with Zack's or a similar kit. But you can only buy what you know about at the time. When I got it I saw that there wasn't a lot to it at the time for the price, but it has worked for me.

All this is apropos of nothing, just interesting to see how things evolve over time.

BTW, what I noticed yesterday crawling under it: with the air dam removed, LOTS of rust under it, and at the bottom of the radiator. Also my COT looks great on top, but had rust on the underside. I sanded and repainted the underside of the COT with high-temp black, and sprayed everything else underneath with corrosion stop. I mention the COT because if it ever fails I'll have to look into the On3 conversion, which is another evolution from back in the day. :)

Best,

Norm

[fastblackmerc]

I've had a DR rear cooling mod installed, by DR himself, for over 70+K miles and have no problems. The only thing I did was replace the plastic "T" fittings with brass fitting. The plastic still looked fine.

I think a rear cooling mod also helps to eliminate air pockets when refilling, making it easier to burp the system.

[Svashtar]

It does seem to make burping the system easier. Before I would burp thru the crossover tube for 10-15 minutes, then button it back up and still overheat. I learned to let it go longer, but the extra routing helps.

Good idea on the brass T's. I'll check in on mine.


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[Marauderjack]

Funny.....I have never had to BURP my cooling system.....ever!!:shake:

[Svashtar]

Funny.....I have never had to BURP my cooling system.....ever!!:shake:


?? Lucky guy. I've had mine overheat after being certain I got every bit of air out of it.


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[Joe Walsh]

Park your Marauder on a steep uphill, or jack up the front of the car before 'burping' the crossover tube.
This makes the crossover tube fitting the highest point on the cooling system.
I've never had to 'burp' it more than once using this method.

[Svashtar]

Great idea, thanks.


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[Marauderjack]

My driveway is slightly uphill and I guess that has saved me the grief every time I refilled or changed coolant!!:beer:

[justbob]

I just squeeze every hose there is for 5-10 minutes while making sure it remains topped off. Install plug. Start it up and drive like nothing happened.

Never an issue.


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[Svashtar]

I just squeeze every hose there is for 5-10 minutes while making sure it remains topped off. Install plug. Start it up and drive like nothing happened.

Never an issue.


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Simple; I'll do that going forward, thanks.