Air bags

[poohc1979]

Do any body have rear strut bags for mm


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[RubberCtyRauder]

OEM avail thru tascaparts.com or aftermarket Arnott or Suncore


They are air springs, not struts

[Svashtar]

Want to avoid a new thread on the same subject.

I did the research on the options based on this same info posted the other day; hate to spend the $ but think I'm going to stick with the OEM parts to fix my constantly refilling bags.

More important to me is to know why they failed now. Assume the bags get more stretched out if the back of the car is on stands? Don't want to stress them again.

Other than the car sitting for two weeks I can't think of another reason for them to start leaking right after this work. Maybe just old and
coincidence, but doubtful.

I think I found a GM how-to video on replacing these. Would it be the same for a MM and do I need a lift?

Thanks.



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[RubberCtyRauder]

turn OFF rear suspension when jacking up rear of car...always

[Gerry24]

turn OFF rear suspension when jacking up rear of car...always

What^^^ said. Air suspension 101, crazy thing is most of the lube shops don't even know that :shake:

[BAD MERC]

Mine drop within 5 minutes of parking. Why not? It's only been garaged since new and just turned 49K miles. Oh well I believe the Arnott ones are the ticket but the heavy duty limo version is what's required. Less than $300 with new bags and solenoids delivered! That's a steal.

[Svashtar]

turn OFF rear suspension when jacking up rear of car...always


I know, I know. $h@(, my bad. [emoji35] I really thought the only reason to turn off the switch in most cases was to prevent the compressor from kicking in so it didn't shift the car while someone was under it.

When I backed it up on ramps I turned it off, and when up on both jackstands later it was off, but I had each rear by itself up, one for several hours while I fought a stuck rotor.

I swear I never heard it try to fill, but something got buggered. Drives fine, but compressor kicks in every 7-8 minutes.

114k, had to do them eventually, but I try not to help things along.

[Svashtar]

Mine drop within 5 minutes of parking. Why not? It's only been garaged since new and just turned 49K miles. Oh well I believe the Arnott ones are the ticket but the heavy duty limo version is what's required. Less than $300 with new bags and solenoids delivered! That's a steal.


Man, you got boned there if they're failing at 49K. Has to be age obviously not miles.

Is that what you're going with, the Arnott's? I want to check out the other ones RCR mentioned as well. Suncore IIRC.

Are you sure the HD limo ones are needed, and the standard ones won't work? Let me look into those; that's half the OEM. Good or bad I'd like to keep the air instead of steel springs.

Now, if someone can please give me an idea on the install? And I'll go away for a while (at least for a day...[emoji846])
----

Please disregard; I see Arnott has install instructions. I'll figure it out, thanks!

[RF Overlord]

I really thought the only reason to turn off the switch in most cases was to prevent the compressor from kicking in so it didn't shift the car while someone was under it.That is actually the correct reason. Leaving the switch on while jacking won't damage anything by itself.

[Svashtar]

That is actually the correct reason. Leaving the switch on while jacking won't damage anything by itself.


Thanks; I might have just tweaked something. I was under the rear end degreasing, scrubbing and hosing off the axle, diff, stud & girdle kit, RSB, everything, but was careful not to spray the bags. Nice and clean there now.

But I also read a post where a guys died after sitting for a long time. Mine didn't operate for a couple of weeks after years of working daily, so that might have done them in.

[RF Overlord]

Sitting for a few weeks is nothing. That didn't "cause" them to go bad. Have you done the soapy-water test to see if the problem is actually the springs? Could be a leaking solenoid.

[Svashtar]

Sitting for a few weeks is nothing. That didn't "cause" them to go bad. Have you done the soapy-water test to see if the problem is actually the springs? Could be a leaking solenoid.


No, planned to do that this weekend to check the bags and lines. Didn't know about the solenoid so will have to see if I can eliminate or ID that as the problem. There's one for each side correct? Need to locate them.

Q: should I pull the fuse for the compressor in the meantime and just let it sag? It's running every few minutes now.

Thanks.

Norm



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[BAD MERC]

I have not done soapy water yet and will before I replace anything. However, if replacement is necessary I'll document the process and post it here.

[RF Overlord]

There's one for each side correct? Need to locate them. They're part of the air springs...right on top.

Q: should I pull the fuse for the compressor in the meantime and just let it sag? It's running every few minutes now.Just shut the switch in the trunk...

[Svashtar]

Just shut the switch in the trunk...

Doh! [emoji15][emoji79] Do you think?

Jesus, I'm getting senile...

BTW, I have this weird rubber stuff that says "Nitto" on it stuck to my rims... [emoji849]


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[Svashtar]

I have not done soapy water yet and will before I replace anything. However, if replacement is necessary I'll document the process and post it here.


Cool; it would be great if it were just a line or a solenoid like RF mentioned, but they're going to have to be done sooner or later.

[Svashtar]

Forget it! 300 yards with the airbags off felt like driving a low-rider farm truck. Bumpy and handles like a pig; miserable.

I'll just live with them kicking in every 7-8 minutes for a few seconds until I get them fixed.


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[Svashtar]

Took 30 seconds to confirm the leak: drivers side bag, bottom rear right at the fold. Passenger side is good.

Anyway, they have to be replaced. I'm comparing the Suncore to the Arnott and will go with one of those sets, hopefully before the compressor dies.


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[Svashtar]

I have not done soapy water yet and will before I replace anything. However, if replacement is necessary I'll document the process and post it here.


I see the Suncore bellows are only $89 for the pair, quite a bit less than the Arnott. 2/3rds less actually, and they don't have the HD option, which is suspect. Checking reviews online as I'll always try and find the best quality regardless of price. I'll post back if I find anything one way or the other.

Tempting to get a new compressor as well, but if it ain't broke...


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[Svashtar]

I have not done soapy water yet and will before I replace anything. However, if replacement is necessary I'll document the process and post it here.



Bad Merc, check this out, looks real straightforward:

http://arnottmanuals.com/?part_number=A-2220


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[RF Overlord]

I see the Suncore bellows are only $89 for the pair...and they don't have the HD option, which is suspect. If you want the car to ride and perform like the originals, you either need to pony up for the OEMs (made by Firestone) or get the Arnott limo springs.

[Svashtar]

Got it, looks like the heavy duty model made for the Grand Marquis. Would seem to be the right fit.

https://www.arnottindustries.com/part_MERCURY_yid3_pid20_gid114 2.html

I was thinking you were referring to the Lincoln town car when you said Limo; but these should be it. Thanks.




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[BAD MERC]

I have a pair in my store but they Arnott the correct ones. Having them in my hand simplifies understanding how the solenoid goes in and whatnot. The most difficult part appears to be troubleshooting the leak.

[RF Overlord]

I was thinking you were referring to the Lincoln town car when you said Limo; I was, but they're the same part anyway.

[Svashtar]

Just got off the phone with Arnott; they sell the HD "limo" bags with aluminum piston for $127 each. Solenoids and o-rings are $20 each, and a new compressor/dryer is $222.

They sell a complete kit with everything for $439, saving you $42, BUT that is for the standard air spring with plastic piston at $110 each. (FYI, according to them the bags are the same except for the pistons, so will give the same ride.)

No problem, I asked them to sell me that complete kit for $473, which adds in the $17 each extra for the HD bags. Nope, no substitutions allowed.

Which means you pay separate prices for everything, or ~$516 for the works, $43 extra.

My pump is still hanging on, but they said sometimes a working pump will fail after newer stronger bags are put in. We'll see.

I'll start with the bags and solenoids at $294 and see how the pump holds up.

They offer a limited lifetime warranty on everything to the original purchaser, so this looks like the best option for quality versus cost.


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[RF Overlord]

I would hope they would know their product, but the OEM bags for the CV/GM are NOT the same as the OEM Marauder. Different spring rate. If they're saying both of their bags are the same rate, that's disappointing.

[Svashtar]

I would hope they would know their product, but the OEM bags for the CV/GM are NOT the same as the OEM Marauder. Different spring rate. If they're saying both of their bags are the same rate, that's disappointing.


Yes, they are saying the only difference is the better piston construction in the limo bags, metal vs. plastic. Identical otherwise, and why don't I want to save money?

Just a misinformed customer service rep; at first she told me they didn't even make bags for the MM, so after that all her information I couldn't confirm on the site was suspect.

She was adamant they wouldn't upgrade the bags on their standard kit, which makes no sense to me. When I order I'm going to speak to someone else about that. Her: "They would have to open the box and replace the bags with the HD ones!" Me: "What's your point? I'm paying the difference."

LOL! I think there was just another thread on this...


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[Svashtar]

I'm getting the new bags and solenoids now. Should I spring for a new compressor? Or if it ain't broke.. ? Mine was running every few minutes for a couple of days, maybe a dozen extra runs total, but I parked the car until I can get it fixed so it's still good.

(Arnott also said new bags sometimes were "too much" for the old compressor, and recommended I get a new one, but I wanted to get your recommendations first. Sounds like a sales pitch of course, but who knows.)

I can always get it, but can save $ getting it with the other parts today, and don't know if these pumps have an estimated end of service life. (?)

Thanks.


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[ByronRACE]

I can always get it, but can save $ getting it with the other parts today, and don't know if these pumps have an estimated end of service life. (?)

My OEM pump has 230K on it. Still works. I've never touched it, or lines, or solenoids, or bags, or dryer. I wouldn't change it if it's working. Change it when it dies.

[Svashtar]

My OEM pump has 230K on it. Still works. I've never touched it, or lines, or solenoids, or bags, or dryer. I wouldn't change it if it's working. Change it when it dies.


Thanks, makes sense. 230k on the original bags? Damn, I knew mine were fraying some at the 6 o'clock position but the hole on the drivers side was a surprise at half your mileage. BTSOM. The passenger side is still good but it just takes one.

The solenoids are still OK, but as long as I'm changing the bags, for an extra $40 new o-rings and solenoids makes sense.


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[RF Overlord]

I'd like to hear their explanation of how new air bags can be "too much" for an old compressor. I would think new air bags would be better for it as they wouldn't have any leaks and wouldn't require the compressor to run as long or as often.

Generally the compressor starts to sound like an old diesel truck for quite a while before they actually go bad. If it's not noisy or demonstrating some other abnormality, I agree with Byron...leave it alone.

[Svashtar]

I'd like to hear their explanation of how new air bags can be "too much" for an old compressor. I would think new air bags would be better for it as they wouldn't have any leaks and wouldn't require the compressor to run as long or as often.

Generally the compressor starts to sound like an old diesel truck for quite a while before they actually go bad. If it's not noisy or demonstrating some other abnormality, I agree with Byron...leave it alone.


Good points, thanks. I spoke with another guy there after I posted today who recommended the new solenoids & o-rings with the bags, but agreed there was no need to replace a working pump. Two bags and solenoids were $305 shipped, so it wasn't a bad deal considering their limited lifetime warranty.

The compressor seemed more noticeable the last couple of days I ran it, but I put that down to hearing it way more often than usual; we'll see.

Bag install looks pretty simple, I'll post a quick update after I get them in.


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[MyBlackBeasts]

Arnott also said new bags sometimes were "too much" for the old compressor

This is the biggest line of bull$j!t ever said. Trying to increase sale by preying on peoples ignorance. Shame on them.

[Svashtar]

Have to say the guy I talked to there later disavowed this, and provided great customer service. That bit came from the same person who first told me they didn't support the MM, and later that there was no difference in spring rate between the standard and HD bags.

Based on the info and service I got from them yesterday, I definitely would buy from them again, despite the initial misinformation from that one person.



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[MyBlackBeasts]

Have to say the guy I talked to there later disavowed this, and provided great customer service. That bit came from the same person who first told me they didn't support the MM, and later that there was no difference in spring rate between the standard and HD bags.

Based on the info and service I got from them yesterday, I definitely would buy from them again, despite the initial misinformation from that one person.



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That's good.

People in the industry that screw people over just REALLY piss me off. :mad2:

There is PLENTY of $$$ to be made honestly if you have any amount of skill, no need to shaft people to make a buck.