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88LTDCV351
09-05-2017, 08:33 AM
So this weekend I took a two hour drive to take the Kennedy Mine Tour near Jackson Rancheria casino. After the tour, the car wouldn't start. All the usual things happened but did not hear the fuel pump and then got nothing when turning the key all the way. Now I know, this has happened before to me but usually I clean the battery posts and terminals a couple of times and then the car will start. Battery is only maybe 6 months old.

But this time I kept turning the key and sometimes my door locks would go crazy. So anyway, cleaned the battery terminals like 5 times and I had someone there give me a jump. Didn't seem to help or maybe we didn't wait long enough. Called triple A and they just used a battery booster and the car started right up.

Voltmeter doesn't seem to indicate anything wrong. Showed 14 today. Yesterday was at 13 when in park. When I turn everything on in my driveway (brake light, A/C, lights, turn signal, radio, etc.), might drop down to 11 or 10.5.

Or could it just be I had too many things drawing from the battery? During the two hour drive, we did have the A/C on, the radio, and plugged into the cagarette ligther was my Garmin and my brother had his portable Blue Ray Player plugged in to the power point. Traffic was light that early on Sunday so it wasn't stop and go traffic mostly.

fastblackmerc
09-05-2017, 08:38 AM
So this weekend I took a two hour drive to take the Kennedy Mine Tour near Jackson Rancheria casino. After the tour, the car wouldn't start. All the usual things happened but did not hear the fuel pump and then got nothing when turning the key all the way. Now I know, this has happened before to me but usually I clean the battery posts and terminals a couple of times and then the car will start. Battery is only maybe 6 months old.

But this time I kept turning the key and sometimes my door locks would go crazy. So anyway, cleaned the battery terminals like 5 times and I had someone there give me a jump. Didn't seem to help or maybe we didn't wait long enough. Called triple A and they just used a battery booster and the car started right up.

Voltmeter doesn't seem to indicate anything wrong. Showed 14 today. Yesterday was at 13 when in park. When I turn everything on in my driveway (brake light, A/C, lights, turn signal, radio, etc.), might drop down to 11 or 10.5.

Or could it just be I had too many things drawing from the battery? During the two hour drive, we did have the A/C on, the radio, and plugged into the cagarette ligther was my Garmin and my brother had his portable Blue Ray Player plugged in to the power point. Traffic was light that early on Sunday so it wasn't stop and go traffic mostly.

Take it to a FLAPS for a free battery test. Could be the battery, + & - connections at the battery, alternator, starter and all the grounds. Do you have a real voltage gauge? That would tell you accurately how the alternator is doing.

The locks doing crazy things is one of the signs of a low battery charge. The AAA jump worked because he has good quality cables.

RF Overlord
09-05-2017, 08:42 AM
When I turn everything on in my driveway (brake light, A/C, lights, turn signal, radio, etc.), might drop down to 11 or 10.5.That's too low with the engine running. Have the battery and alternator tested.

88LTDCV351
09-05-2017, 09:42 AM
Do you have a real voltage gauge?

At this point, I'm only referring to the stock volt gauge.


The AAA jump worked because he has good quality cables.

Yeah, I wished I had looked at what brand booster pack he was using. I'd like to get the best one out there. I've bought battery boosters before and found them to be hit or miss in the past so not always sure they were worth the money. Had a big one from Costco for many years but eventually after each six months it would no longer keep a charge when trying to recharge it.

justbob
09-05-2017, 01:05 PM
Sounds like a bad battery cell.


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Donald
09-05-2017, 06:05 PM
Awhile back my Fusion gave me a warning light about the gas cap. Bought a new one and after a few run the light went off. Then my airbag light came on. Drove a few days and sometimes it would go off. Then I noticed the car just did not sound right when starting cold.

Went to my battery place. Charging system good. Check fluid in a cell and it was a bit low. Battery was in month 63 of a 65 month warranty. Decided on new battery.

Car cranks great. Airbag light has not come on again. I probably did not really need a gas cap.

I think all the Electronics need a good strong voltage at ignition on and if start is hit too soon they don't get what they need to operate properly. Especially the sensors.

88LTDCV351
09-07-2017, 04:23 PM
I'll have the alternator and battery tested at the FLAPs this weekend. If it ends up being the alternator, I still have a new BD Electrical in the garage somewhere. But what do I need to do with this extra cable that goes from the alternator to the battery? Shrink wrap or something? What is that?

justbob
09-07-2017, 07:45 PM
What extra cable??


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Fastbob
09-08-2017, 06:21 AM
What extra cable??


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88LTDCV351
09-08-2017, 07:44 AM
The one that comes with the DB Electrical alternators. Here: https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/ford-chevy-high-output-alternator-fuse-block-wiring-kit-4-gauge.html

1Marauder
09-09-2017, 05:50 AM
I would bet it is simply the battery. All sorts of Gremlins creep in with a faulty battery (cell), causing a bunch of different issues.

Costco!

88LTDCV351
09-11-2017, 08:40 AM
I took it to the FLAPs. The guy at Autozone said the battery tested good.

When I started the car, I rolled down the window. He said the device said bad voltage regulator. But I figured that might be because I was rolling down the window while getting outside the car (didn't want to get locked out of the car if the door locks suddenly engaged). So I told him to test it again. He did, but it came back everything was ok this time.

He said to rev the engine to 2000 RPM and I did. Then he said definately alternator bad because he could hear the bearings or noises.

But when I got home, I have the fiance rev up the car while I was under the hood and I didn't hear anything abnormal. What am i listening for?

GetMeMyStogie
09-11-2017, 10:05 PM
The one that comes with the DB Electrical alternators. Here: https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/ford-chevy-high-output-alternator-fuse-block-wiring-kit-4-gauge.html



Did you read the captions in those photos? What's not clear?

robertmee
09-12-2017, 04:17 AM
But when I got home, I have the fiance rev up the car while I was under the hood and I didn't hear anything abnormal. What am i listening for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyZWhz7uvDE

88LTDCV351
09-12-2017, 07:51 AM
Did you read the captions in those photos? What's not clear?

Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I'm not that good at these things. And maybe I don't understand how to heat shrink this wire properly. The wire is quite thick so not sure I have something to cut a wire that thick after measuring it other than my regular wire cutter which is for normal size wires and too small. I suppose I could find youtube videos on how to crimp properly and how to heat shrink. I guess I could try that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyZWhz7uvDE

Thanks, this is interesting. I'll give this a try.

MyBlackBeasts
09-12-2017, 06:48 PM
Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I'm not that good at these things. And maybe I don't understand how to heat shrink this wire properly. The wire is quite thick so not sure I have something to cut a wire that thick after measuring it other than my regular wire cutter which is for normal size wires and too small. I suppose I could find youtube videos on how to crimp properly and how to heat shrink. I guess I could try that.

With a little effort you can probably cut it with a good pair of lineman's pliers, if not borrow or buy a cheap cable cutter: https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-cable-cutters-61422.html

Heat shrink is easy. Slide HS tubing on wire (make sure you do this before crimping if the tubing will not fit over the ends after crimping is complete) and center over what you want covered, heat it up with cigarette lighter or heat gun. be careful to move flame around as to not overheat/burn the material.

Done

Shornaday
09-12-2017, 08:20 PM
I have been using the old screwdriver test for many years. However, after reading thru this thread and watching the YouTube video this came to mind. It would have been nice for the person in the video to put the microphone up to the screwdriver so those that do not know could hear the different sounds.

That's when I stumbled onto this video showing a shop hack that improves on the screwdriver test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHtLH_m9gN4

The only trouble that I see is: if the person has a long screwdriver they may also have a stethoscope.

Anyway, thought it was a pretty good shop hack along with maybe being a little safer for your head when the screwdriver slips into a pulley.

justbob
09-13-2017, 03:52 AM
I have been using the old screwdriver test for many years. However, after reading thru this thread and watching the YouTube video this came to mind. It would have been nice for the person in the video to put the microphone up to the screwdriver so those that do not know could hear the different sounds.

That's when I stumbled onto this video showing a shop hack that improves on the screwdriver test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHtLH_m9gN4

The only trouble that I see is: if the person has a long screwdriver they may also have a stethoscope.

Anyway, thought it was a pretty good shop hack along with maybe being a little safer for your head when the screwdriver slips into a pulley.



Must admit that is pretty damn clever! And my 36" screwdriver set would make that a breeze.

I always use my stethoscope with pointed end but even with that it can be really difficult at times.


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mm svt
09-13-2017, 06:51 AM
The ole jug on screw driver trick, nice.

MyBlackBeasts
09-13-2017, 06:16 PM
Must admit that is pretty damn clever! And my 36" screwdriver set would make that a breeze.

I always use my stethoscope with pointed end but even with that it can be really difficult at times.


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3' 3/8 extension works even better than screw driver.

1Marauder
09-16-2017, 08:56 PM
Simplistic and yet brilliant. Was amazed to hear the bad pulley comparitive!

88LTDCV351
10-09-2017, 11:22 AM
Haven't had the problem since early September as I've been busy. Car has been normal up until Friday afternoon when I went to the park for a walk and then the car wouldn't start. Exact same symptoms. Kept cleaning the battery cables and tried my new portable jumpstarter. Nothing. Clean the posts one more time for smiles and giggles and the car finally started. Got the short distance to my brother's apartment and car kept starting normally when I tried it. My brothers little volt reader thing shows battery normal and alternator normal when engine is on. It's been normal this weekend and to work today. Might be normal for another month as far as I know. But this is becoming a pain.

I did read one article saying try my other key since PATs can go flaky. Also read solenoid but easier to replace starter at the same time.

My alternator might be old and tired at 175,000 miles but I still think something else is going on.

fastblackmerc
10-09-2017, 11:56 AM
Haven't had the problem since early September as I've been busy. Car has been normal up until Friday afternoon when I went to the park for a walk and then the car wouldn't start. Exact same symptoms. Kept cleaning the battery cables and tried my new portable jumpstarter. Nothing. Clean the posts one more time for smiles and giggles and the car finally started. Got the short distance to my brother's apartment and car kept starting normally when I tried it. My brothers little volt reader thing shows battery normal and alternator normal when engine is on. It's been normal this weekend and to work today. Might be normal for another month as far as I know. But this is becoming a pain.

I did read one article saying try my other key since PATs can go flaky. Also read solenoid but easier to replace starter at the same time.

My alternator might be old and tired at 175,000 miles but I still think something else is going on.
Try swapping the starter relay with another like relay or a new one.

1Marauder
10-10-2017, 08:41 AM
Drive to Ford Store, pay $19 and replace starter relay all together. BUY an extra and keep new and old one for an emergency spares (mark old one w sharpie).

I've had two complex issues: Starting issues, and AC issues... after much blood, sweat, and tears...and futzing around testing stuff, banging on starters, rocking car, replacing various brake stop and AC parts... BOTH ISSUES FIXED by simply replacing the RELAYS.

fastblackmerc
10-10-2017, 08:49 AM
Drive to Ford Store, pay $19 and replace starter relay all together. BUY an extra and keep new and old one for an emergency spares (mark old one w sharpie).

I've had two complex issues: Starting issues, and AC issues... after much blood, sweat, and tears...and futzing around testing stuff, banging on starters, rocking car, replacing various brake stop and AC parts... BOTH ISSUES FIXED by simply replacing the RELAYS.

Remember these cars and their electrical systems are 13 or 14 + years old. Imagine how many times the relays have opened and closed. Relays get weaker every time they are used. Last year I replaced all of mine. Wouldn't hurt to have a couple of spares in the glove box.

A good anti theft device would be to gut an old relay and replace the starter relay with the gutted one.

Svashtar
10-10-2017, 12:25 PM
Is the starter relay in the under hood fuse box in front of the battery?


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88LTDCV351
06-23-2018, 03:54 PM
Car is starting the same not starting issues again. I replaced the starter fuse relay under the hood in the fuse box by the battery and didn't help. So it can't be the fuse relay or the battery What next? Also tried battery booster and cleaning the terminals.

Agent2006
06-23-2018, 04:40 PM
Are you sure it is not the fuel pump?

justbob
06-23-2018, 07:52 PM
My truck was doing this off and on and it ended up being corroded wiring inside the insulation down at the starter. The wiring was literally green dust for about 5-6”s into the insulation. I ended up getting a whole new harness up to the battery from Ford.


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justbob
06-23-2018, 07:52 PM
Are you sure it is not the fuel pump?



What does a fuel pump have to do with not cranking???


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88LTDCV351
06-23-2018, 08:20 PM
One of the symptoms is I never hear the fuel pump come on. Anyway I went back out 20 minutes later and it fired right up this time

88LTDCV351
06-23-2018, 08:23 PM
My truck was doing this off and on and it ended up being corroded wiring inside the insulation down at the starter. The wiring was literally green dust for about 5-6”s into the insulation. I ended up getting a whole new harness up to the battery from Ford.


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Grimrepairman
06-23-2018, 10:37 PM
Anyone decent at wiring should be able to repair or replace the harness.
The corrosion inside the wiring is a common problem. Have installed several starters which required replacing a section of the harness for warranty to apply.
Do you have complete loss of power at this point? Power to gauges but no crank?

Invective
06-24-2018, 04:02 AM
The AAA jump worked because he has good quality cables.

Yep, battery in the Ranger failed after 10 years while at work. Co-workers' jumper cables were garbage - thanked him anyway. AAA came out and it lit right off - new battery the next day. Marauder on its second battery. 10+ years for an auto battery has been normal for me when using a Battery Tender for 'maintenance' charging twice a year.

The current Mustang being the exception with 3-4 years tops (heat?). Marauder's first battery wasn't changed out until the year before I bought it - previous owner kept it connected to a Battery Tender year around.

JimP
06-24-2018, 06:25 AM
I had this same issue, no crank. In my car it was the harness located just above the transmission passenger side which was accessed from underneath. Mine wasn't clipped in properly and the issue was very random, my reverse lights would also not work.

Long story short my car would not start as it was showing that it was in manual 2nd gear when on the scanner (no power to starter relay) . Once harness was cleaned up and clipped back together issue gone and in my case reverse lights also work again.

Agent2006
06-24-2018, 02:46 PM
did not equate "no start" to not cranking in the first post. Then, I wondered if he didn't have two things going on here...good comments, thanks for posting, now I'm checking all my wires...even though mine starts OK.

88LTDCV351
06-25-2018, 08:42 AM
The symptoms are everything normal until I turn the key forward where you are supposed to hear the fuel pump whine, but instead silence and the car is dead except for the wacky door locks.

Anyway, car is running fine again for the last few days. So this problem seems to come randomly. Sometimes 6 months later and sometimes 1 month later or sometimes even 9 months later. I'm going to finally have it taken in but i figure they won't know what to do until it actually does it again.

88LTDCV351
10-29-2018, 08:33 AM
Took the car to the stealership to hopefully find out more about my intermittent no crank, no start issue. They checked everything but the problem didn't resurface while the car was there so they weren't able to figure out what the issue might be.

88LTDCV351
09-15-2023, 10:59 AM
So this still happens on occasion but I remembered this time to look at the flashing alarm light. And I noticed this last time when the car wouldn't start when I got stuck at the dental office, it keeps flashing even when I turn the key. From what I can tell when the car does start normally, the alarm light illuminates while the key is turned and solid, not as a flash. Which I assume is the normal operation. So I'm thinking could be my key is getting flaky (so carrying around an extra key now to try next time) or maybe it's that PATS thing?

88LTDCV351
11-01-2023, 01:13 PM
So I think I finally got this one figured out...I think. So I went to the dentist office and it happened again. The car would not start. But I had my extra key on me. I tried the extra key and the car started right up. So I'm thinking my old key is intermittently bad. I think they have a chip in them that the PATs is supposed to detect and apparently this key is on the occasional fritz. I'll start using my extra key as the main key now.

Jolly Roger
11-09-2023, 11:56 PM
Did using the spare key solve the problem?

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Jolly Roger
11-10-2023, 12:00 AM
So I think I finally got this one figured out...I think. So I went to the dentist office and it happened again. The car would not start. But I had my extra key on me. I tried the extra key and the car started right up. So I'm thinking my old key is intermittently bad. I think they have a chip in them that the PATs is supposed to detect and apparently this key is on the occasional fritz. I'll start using my extra key as the main key now.If the spare key is not the solution I might have one that you could try. (Not key but solution). [emoji854]

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