Fuel Pump Saga Please Help

[chefcaleb]

okay guys and gals, I need help:

Here's the story, my wife and I should never go on dates. At least, never take the Marauder at least. We took it one time to see Jim Gaffigan Hershey, Pa. It was about 70 miles away. On the way home at around midnight the just died while driving. Luckily I was able to pull over to the side without incident. All electronics still worked but it wouldn't turn over. There was clicking but it wouldn't start. Called tow truck at 1am. By the grace of God we got home at 3am. It was horrible. When we got there the car started just fine, like nothing happened. Of course.

But at anyrate, it suggests, as Marty suggested, bad fuel pump. The tuner Marty gave me gave a code that suggested bad fuel rail or bad fuel pump. Anyway, the garage we took it to, that has ALWAYS been great to us in the past swapped out the fuel pump. They, however, are not familiar with Marauders.

Got the car back, check engine light. P0442 code that suggest evap leak. Sure enough they didn't tigheten something, no big deal. Took it back they fixed it. No more code. However, the needle isn't reading right. It tells me I'm empty when I am not. I fill up and the pump says I only put in 15 gallons when it said I was bone dry.

So I take it back. They don't charge me for the new part, obviously, but they do charge me half on labor, which I don't know like but whatever, I have to pay it since they did the work and I don't want to take it somewhere else and pay full price on everything. So now they put in a new fuel pump.

My wife and I go on another date with the marauder out of town... Arturo Sandoval... Big mistake. Again, at midnight, I'm filling up gas because it says I'm at a little over a quarter tank of gas and I have 323 miles on the tank, I don't think it is reading right again. Sure enough I put in 17.5 gallons. If my math is right, the needle is wrong again so the fuel sender is not telling the needle the right amount of gas, again.

Here is the biggest issue. When I was done fueling, a huge waterfall, or shall I say fuel fall of gas came pouring out of my tank! At midnight I had gas pouring out of my tank in the middle of no where. So I had a decision to make, call a tow truck or risk dying in a ball of fire. I choose to risk it and drive home due to the fact that it eventually calmed down and started to just slowly drip. But still, it was scary as hell. When I was home it was no longer dripping at all and is no longer leaking now. But, I am as angry as can be. The garage is as confused as can be too as to why this is not working. They have done many crown vics and don't know what the difference is between this and them. They don't know if there is someting in the tank that is causing the issue because the place they are buying the fuel pump assures that the fuel pump is OEM and is no different than a mercury fuel pump. Are they wrong? What is the garage missing?

If you all could please let me know what I should tell them. Currently the tuner is showing two codes P0442: possible fuel leak... yeah no kidding... and P1235 FDPM. Could that cause the fuel needle to show a wrong reading? Again, this garage has always been great and they are trying to remedy the situation. And believe me I would go to another garage but this garage is willing to make this right without charging me anything, so I would like to get the best advice so as to avoid having to pay full price somewhere else. Thanks guys. I told them to come here too, so hopefully they heed that advice.

[justbob]

It can be tricky to remove and install the pump assembly but easily doable on your back with some care. If you remove the right side tailpipe hanger and push the exhaust out of the way it will come out with ease. Next up is the wiring. It will not allow full removal of the assembly unless you follow the wires up to the top of the tank and separate them from the harness above for about a foot or so. (They are just taped to the other wires every couple of inches) After that you have full access to do a pump swap easily. Or simply cut the wires like me and add a weather tight connector.

Considering the fuel level arm is the one thing that gets tangled up easily going in or out, my guess is that they bent the arm a tad forcing the assembly in or out.. And who only knows what to tweak at this point to correct it.

There is no difference between a crown Vic or Marauder labor wise that I know of.

As for the major leak, it sounds like they messed up the gasket reinstalling the fuel hat. Probably the top portion leaving you with only 2/3 - 3/4 tank once it was done.

I myself would run very fast in the other direction..

A fuel pump on these should take absolutely no more than two hours for a novice with only the slightest bit of mechanical knowhow doing one for the first time. And that includes jacking up the car.

Basically, this is a low skill level repair that should never go wrong besides an bad pump right out of the box.

Keep us informed please.


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[chefcaleb]

So you're saying that the tank itself doesn't need to come off to replace the fuel pump? Because they are not saying that. They are saying that the fuel pump is in the tank and the tank has to come off in order for the pump to be replaced. So your saying there is a work around or that is just not true altogether and they should've known that?

The first time, other than the line they didn't tighten all the way, the only thing that didn't seem to go right is the fuel gauge not reading right. Which according to Martyo is a common thing with fuel pumps and can be fixed with a swap. I just think it is weird that this has happened twice. And I'm pissed that fuel is leaking now. My car smells like fuel, which maybe it is just residual smell from the first leak. Anyway, I'll let you all know how it goes.

[chefcaleb]

If they did bend my arm could they just replace the tank itself? I'm seeing crown Vic tanks for 112 bucks. Wouldn't that solve the issue? Just throwing out stuff.

[justbob]

There is absolutely no reason for dropping the tank. I can't think of one guy on here that has ever done that!


Replacing the tank will not remedy the arm. That is connected to the fuel hat that bolts to the tank.


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[MyBlackBeasts]

So you're saying that the tank itself doesn't need to come off to replace the fuel pump? Because they are not saying that. They are saying that the fuel pump is in the tank and the tank has to come off in order for the pump to be replaced. So your saying there is a work around or that is just not true altogether and they should've known that?

The first time, other than the line they didn't tighten all the way, the only thing that didn't seem to go right is the fuel gauge not reading right. Which according to Martyo is a common thing with fuel pumps and can be fixed with a swap. I just think it is weird that this has happened twice. And I'm pissed that fuel is leaking now. My car smells like fuel, which maybe it is just residual smell from the first leak. Anyway, I'll let you all know how it goes.

No, the tank absolutely does not have to come off.

If the unit was on top of tank it would but on these cars it is on the side and is easily accessible.

If they are telling you the tank has to come down, I think you have discovered your entire problem! Time to find a mechanic that has skills beyond a quik-lub tech... :shake:

[dmjarosz]

You stated: "All electronics still worked but it wouldn't turn over. There was clicking but it wouldn't start." To me that seems like a starter and/or battery issue, not fuel pump related. Maybe you have two issue? Could you please clarify?

If its fuel pump/level related, I vote for replacing the entire sending unit, get everything brand new. Its mounted on the front of the tank, so no tank removal is necessary

[chefcaleb]

I'm sorry, it most definitely wasn't a starter. While I'm not very mechanically inclined I did have to replace the starter on my previous car and this was a whole different thing. Plus the car runs fine now, except not reading the level of gas and the aforementioned leaking gas. I consulted with Marty with Mo's speed shop and he said it was the fuel pump especially due to the code that came up when I ran the reader. So again, the fuel pump was at fault.

It is my understanding that the fuel sender and the fuel pump and all in one unit. Am I wrong? When I look them up they are one unit, fuel pump and sender in one unit. Just as Marty has pointed out sometimes they are bad so maybe they've just been bad twice? And as far as bending the arm when they put them in, isn't that pretty hard to do?

I also might have misunderstood them when I said they had to remove the tank. When I brought them the car, the tank was completely full. They may have had to just lowered the tank to get to the fuel pump and therefore just had to take out a little gas. So maybe that is all they meant. But yeah, I don't know. My friend who is an auto technician is offering to help out if they can't do it so maybe I will go that route. Thanks.

[MyBlackBeasts]

I'm sorry, it most definitely wasn't a starter. While I'm not very mechanically inclined I did have to replace the starter on my previous car and this was a whole different thing. Plus the car runs fine now, except not reading the level of gas and the aforementioned leaking gas. I consulted with Marty with Mo's speed shop and he said it was the fuel pump especially due to the code that came up when I ran the reader. So again, the fuel pump was at fault.

It is my understanding that the fuel sender and the fuel pump and all in one unit. Am I wrong? When I look them up they are one unit, fuel pump and sender in one unit. Just as Marty has pointed out sometimes they are bad so maybe they've just been bad twice? And as far as bending the arm when they put them in, isn't that pretty hard to do?

I also might have misunderstood them when I said they had to remove the tank. When I brought them the car, the tank was completely full. They may have had to just lowered the tank to get to the fuel pump and therefore just had to take out a little gas. So maybe that is all they meant. But yeah, I don't know. My friend who is an auto technician is offering to help out if they can't do it so maybe I will go that route. Thanks.

Pump & sender are an assembly but the pump can be removed from the sender for replacement.

[chefcaleb]

Ok, I see. They were replacing the unit as one set piece. Yes, I am considering cutting my losses with them and having my friend take it to his school and us doing it. It will take longer to get it done and I will have to pay full price for the fuel pump, but better to have it done right. Is there a brand or exact model you all know and trust without doubt that works for the fuel pump AND sender that shouldn't give me problems?

[MyBlackBeasts]

Pump & sender are an assembly but the pump can be removed from the sender for replacement.



See pic. The pump gets strapped to sender bracket and wires/lines then are attachedhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170925/4697e5896e18a582e61b3f6d1629ef a5.jpg


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[MyBlackBeasts]

Ok, I see. They were replacing the unit as one set piece. Yes, I am considering cutting my losses with them and having my friend take it to his school and us doing it. It will take longer to get it done and I will have to pay full price for the fuel pump, but better to have it done right. Is there a brand or exact model you all know and trust without doubt that works for the fuel pump AND sender that shouldn't give me problems?

With the fuel gauge acting up I would not trust the unit they installed as it sounds like they bent the float. Its not something you want to keep taking apart to fart around bending float over & over trying to make gauge accurate.

If you have no HP mods, go with OEM: https://www.amazon.com/03-04-VCTRA-MODULE-150166-9H307/dp/B074VB911L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1506307720&sr=8-1&keywords=3W1Z-9H307-AB

[MyBlackBeasts]

Ok, I see. They were replacing the unit as one set piece. Yes, I am considering cutting my losses with them and having my friend take it to his school and us doing it. It will take longer to get it done and I will have to pay full price for the fuel pump, but better to have it done right. Is there a brand or exact model you all know and trust without doubt that works for the fuel pump AND sender that shouldn't give me problems?

Anyone with basic mechanical skills can do this. Just follow justbob's instructions in post #2.

Make sure you run the fuel level down below the sender opening before removing it. Be patient, take your time and DON'T force anything.

[chefcaleb]

Anyone with basic mechanical skills can do this. Just follow justbob's instructions in post #2.

Make sure you run the fuel level down below the sender opening before removing it. Be patient, take your time and DON'T force anything.



Well, I'm not sure if you would consider the Martyo tune with a SCT tuner a HP upgrade. That is the only above stock upgrade I have. I plan on getting 4.10 gears. I've thought about just having that guy do the fuel pump but like I said, my friend who is an auto technician obviously knows his stuff. He just like you all where he is confused as to why these guys at the garage would need to take the tank off. He knew that without knowing the Marauder intimately like you all do.


Until I have time to do this, in your guys opinion, do you think it is safe to drive my car with the aforementioned leak? It is not leaking anymore. I do smell fuel when I get out after driving down a hill or what not. I assume this is because it has splashed and maybe some fuel come out of that loose gasket, but again, I don't see anything actively leaking anymore. I just want to make sure I'm not going to go down in a blazing ball of fire. Despite how cool that sounds. I mean, if I have to go down, that does sound pretty cool, but still... I have thought about having the garage fix that mistake at least, but maybe I don't want them laying hands on this car any more at all...

[chefcaleb]

There is absolutely no reason for dropping the tank. I can't think of one guy on here that has ever done that!


Replacing the tank will not remedy the arm. That is connected to the fuel hat that bolts to the tank.


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Okay, so forgive my ignorance... So the fuel hat is different than the fuel pump and the fuel tank correct? And I'm hoping and presuming that it, too, can be replaced using a regular car part store. I am also hoping it is easy and not so expensive to do so? Shouldn't I just buy that as well while I am at it just to be safe and if it is bad wouldn't a code come up?

For that part, is there a particular one that you all suggest? Thanks guys again.

[Mr. Man]

For those of you saying the tank doesn't need to be dropped to replace the pump, as I understood reading here a few years back everyone was saying when you replace the pump, drop the tank, at least partially) get new snap bolts as it will make putting the tank back in much easier. What am I missing on this repair?

Sorry, I'm not trying to confuse the OP, but if I'm confused others may be as well who thought they read what I read.:confused:

[Spectragod]

For those of you saying the tank doesn't need to be dropped to replace the pump, as I understood reading here a few years back everyone was saying when you replace the pump, drop the tank, at least partially) get new snap bolts as it will make putting the tank back in much easier. What am I missing on this repair?

Sorry, I'm not trying to confuse the OP, but if I'm confused others may be as well who thought they read what I read.:confused:

You "have" to replace those if you remove the tank, it is near impossible to get the nuts started back on as you cannot push the straps up that far easily.

[Zack]

You "have" to replace those if you remove the tank, it is near impossible to get the nuts started back on as you cannot push the straps up that far easily.

Incorrect!!!! I have never had a problem.

[Spectragod]

Incorrect!!!! I have never had a problem.

But you are dreamy and the best, I am not, I had to opt for the $8 worth of hardware.

[RF Overlord]

Okay, so forgive my ignorance... So the fuel hat is different than the fuel pump and the fuel tank correct? And I'm hoping and presuming that it, too, can be replaced using a regular car part store. I am also hoping it is easy and not so expensive to do so? Shouldn't I just buy that as well while I am at it just to be safe and if it is bad wouldn't a code come up?

For that part, is there a particular one that you all suggest? Thanks guys again.The hat is the circular piece on the left in the photo MyBlackBeasts posted above. All of the parts in that picture are collectively referred to as the "fuel pump assembly", even though the actual pump is the shiny cylinder with the green connector.

If you don't have mega horsepower, you don't need God's Own Pump. Can't go wrong with OEM.

As for driving it with a fuel tank leak...um...is your life insurance paid up? I wouldn't drive it any farther than absolutely necessary other than to the shop where it gets fixed.

[chefcaleb]

Um, okay, so now there seems to be a group of people saying that there is a reason for dropping the tank.


Could it be argued that dropping the tank is done to simply make it easier to get to this part and that they are not necessarily doing anything wrong, in a sense, but just doing things the long way, or the hard way? Is that an accurate way of looking at it? Mind you, this garage is not a Jiffy Lube. It is a local place made up of maybe three locations. I just want to make that clear. But I do wonder if they have a certain method for doing fuel pumps and simply did it the way that they always do fuel pumps...


Anyway, with that said, I am starting to see that maybe there is more than one way to skin a cat? But then again, something did go wrong two times so... there's that...

[chefcaleb]

The hat is the circular piece on the left in the photo MyBlackBeasts posted above. All of the parts in that picture are collectively referred to as the "fuel pump assembly", even though the actual pump is the shiny cylinder with the green connector.



Ah... gotcha... What is confusing is if you do a search among different car parts stores online for fuel pumps for the Mercury Marauder 2004, the picture that comes up is different every time. I wonder if that is because some include the sender and some do not. Anyway, that is why I asked for a specific suggestion. Now that I have one, I know which one to get. Thanks guys.

[fastblackmerc]

From Rock Auto:

Motorcraft Pump assembly
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=383220&cc=1428218&jsn=387

All pump assemblies
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,2004,marauder,4.6l+v8, 1428218,fuel+&+air,fuel+pump+&+housing+assembly,10147

Looks like all are compete, hat, pump, filter sock, gasket & harness.

[chefcaleb]

I talked with my auto technician friend. He looked in his service manual to figure out anytime the world they took the tank off. Looks like according to "regular procedure" it calls to do so so as not to alter the wiring harness form the pump. Yes you can cut the wires and do a work around but maybe they don't do that. I don't know but my friend and I are going to do it so it doesn't matter. Lesson learned. Now to figure out where the leak is.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Okay, so forgive my ignorance... So the fuel hat is different than the fuel pump and the fuel tank correct? And I'm hoping and presuming that it, too, can be replaced using a regular car part store. I am also hoping it is easy and not so expensive to do so? Shouldn't I just buy that as well while I am at it just to be safe and if it is bad wouldn't a code come up?

For that part, is there a particular one that you all suggest? Thanks guys again.

The hat is just the round piece of metal that the lines and wires transition through to the pump & sender. It covers the hole in the tank and you can see it in the pic on post #11.

The martyo tune & 4.19s will work fine with OEM pump.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Well, I'm not sure if you would consider the Martyo tune with a SCT tuner a HP upgrade. That is the only above stock upgrade I have. I plan on getting 4.10 gears. I've thought about just having that guy do the fuel pump but like I said, my friend who is an auto technician obviously knows his stuff. He just like you all where he is confused as to why these guys at the garage would need to take the tank off. He knew that without knowing the Marauder intimately like you all do.


Until I have time to do this, in your guys opinion, do you think it is safe to drive my car with the aforementioned leak? It is not leaking anymore. I do smell fuel when I get out after driving down a hill or what not. I assume this is because it has splashed and maybe some fuel come out of that loose gasket, but again, I don't see anything actively leaking anymore. I just want to make sure I'm not going to go down in a blazing ball of fire. Despite how cool that sounds. I mean, if I have to go down, that does sound pretty cool, but still... I have thought about having the garage fix that mistake at least, but maybe I don't want them laying hands on this car any more at all...

No, do not drive the car with a known fuel leak. Just way too many things can go wrong in that scenario that can cause injury & property damage to others, not just the car. Remember, it is the gas vapors that burns!

[chefcaleb]

So I took it to my friend. We found where the leak is coming from. It is from the fuel neck. He believes they didn't align the fuel neck gasket properly when they put the tank back on. But I wanted to ask if you all know if the part that I have pictured which is the fuel neck handler going into the tank is supposed to be tight and not wiggle at all? He noticed that it can move when he twisted it. Anyway, he is going to replace the fuel neck gasket. Link to picture is below. Thanks.

https://m.imgur.com/FGnxAQ9

[B4Real]

No, the tank absolutely does not have to come off.

If the unit was on top of tank it would but on these cars it is on the side and is easily accessible.

If they are telling you the tank has to come down, I think you have discovered your entire problem! Time to find a mechanic that has skills beyond a quik-lub tech... :shake:



Hello I have replaced the fuel pump (without dropping the tank) and going back with tank seal/ gasket and the tank hat. I cannot get the seal/gasket to stay in place.


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[Agent2006]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1063658&cc=1387829&jsn=609

not to thread-jack, but see the picture of the fuel pump in the link?.... shows three rubber spikes sticking up from the round gasket. Those need to be pulled through holes in the fuel pump round plate, or you'll never get the gasket to stay seated as you start the 6 screws to mount the round plate to the fuel tank hole. might need to order a new gasket if yours is messed up.

[B4Real]

Thank you


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