Camber Adjustment Question with Regards to LCA Rear Bushing

[Aerocoupe]

So some history here on what I am building so you will understand my question. I have a the entire front suspension from an '06 P71 car that will be installed into my 1970 F100 project. I have have been gathering up all the parts to do the swap (or so I thought) for about two years. So I will be installing new UCA's, LCA's, set of Naake coil overs (he and I talked and settled on a spring rate), new sway bar bushings, and new LCA rear control arm bushings. I am also going to do the Zack big brake conversion (just ordered the adapters from Jerry) but have not bought the rest of the parts as the family came first with Christmas. So now you know the project and materials I have so far.

After noodling around on here I learned that there is a camber kit for these cars and I thought that would be a good idea so go ahead and do being that I will have the K-member stripped down to powder coat. So after reading quite a bit on this here I wanted to learn more about how the camber adjustment works on these cars. So I did the usual Google searches and read what I could. I then searched all of this tied back the 67-72 Bumpside Ford F100's and came across a guy in Texas doing the CV conversion on his 67 on YouTube. He is really slow but meticulous and just seems like a guy you would sit down and drink some cold beers with.

So in Part 4 of his video series he mentions that you have to split the LCA rear bushing housing and rotate the bushing inside the housing and then weld the housing back up so the camber adjustment will work correctly. This threw me for a loop. I Googled this a bit more and Richey Classic Truck Suspension has them for sale with the mod already done here:

https://ritcheytrucksuspension.com/products/kit-723-brand-new-lower-control-arm-bracket-with-bushing-rotated

The add states it is for the correct caster adjustment but on the few F100 builds that have done the CV swap that talk about this say it is for camber. It appears they rotate it such that the slot is parallel to the mounting plate. Other pictures I have seen (have not torn my suspension down yet...too damn cold) show the slot at an angle to the base plate.

Confused yet? Yeah me too. What I am used to with an SLA system is the control arms basically being centered on the spring/shock. The control arms will have a bar between the front and rear mounts that have the offset washers on them and the entire control arm moves in and out equally on the forward and rear mounts to set camber. The Panthers are different in that the UCA is centered on the spring/shock but is non-adjustable. The LCA on the Panthers is really different in that the forward mount is centered with the spring/shock and the rear mount is trailing behind it a long way and it appears that the only camber adjustment is on the front mount.

So I completely understand the camber adjustment process on the LCA front mount with the off center bolt moving the LCA in and out but what about the LCA connection at the rear bushing? It appears that the rear bushing is slotted so that it too will move so does the tech also move that one and if so is it for caster or camber?

I need to understand what does what on this suspension so I can figure out why the hell these guys are rotating the rear bushing inside the housing. Does anyone have a picture of the LCA mounted in a Panther so I can see the physical connection of the rear bushing to the frame of the car?

[Aerocoupe]

Found a picture of the modified rear bushing (Ritchey) versus a stock one (O'Reilly Auto Parts)

Modded
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/CV%20LCA%20Rear%20Bushing%20Ro tated_zpsycjrohwp.jpg

Stock
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/CV%20LCA%20Rear%20Bushing%20St ock_zpsrlfonjgv.jpg

[justbob]

I’ve never heard of anyone having to do this? The reason we use the camber bolts is because the stock one simply doesn’t have enough adjustment. (Mostly on lowered cars) It appears it would just be another adjustment point for camber as caster is set at the outer tie rods. More crap to move out of adjustment IMHO (unless you find a valid reason as to why) Otherwise we have always had plenty of adjustment once we replace the camber bolt.

It must have something to do with the geometry on the F100 and how it handles or aligns. I say get the camber bolt and slot the K member, powder coat and bolt it up. If needed you could always go back in later and not screw up anything paint wise. Unless your coating the lowers as well? Personally I’d ask the company selling as to why it’s available before going in for an alignment and finding out the hard way..






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[Aerocoupe]

I just need to see how the rear bushing mounts to a Panther and that may help answer why they are doing this.

How is caster set through the tie rods? Toe yes but caster?

[Turbov6Bryan]

Post this on the Mercury marauder fan page on Facebook and I'll tag Neil

He works at firestone and has been doing the car fixers specs for the alignment without adjusting that lower essentric towards the back of the lower control arm.

Within the last year he found out it was adjustable and idk if he has needed to adjust there since he found out

He does all the marauder cars here in KC

HE goes by 8uwith6 here

[Aerocoupe]

Found a couple of pictures of how the rear LCA bushing mounts to the Panther frame:

Passenger Side - you can see that the bushing mount is on the inside of the frame:
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/Crown%20Vic%20IFS%202_zpsl8vm8 geu.jpg

Driver Side - from under the car and it appears that the mount is at an angle as well but the damn converter is in the way:
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/Crown%20Vic%20IFS%201_zpsnziyf dhj.jpg

The I found these two pictures and now I see why these guys are rotating the bushing. LCA rear mount definitely installs at an angle on the inside of the frame.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/Crown%20Vic%20IFS%203_zpsbvkfv 5ez.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/Crown%20Vic%20IFS%203_zpsbvkfv 5ez.jpg

So the rotation is to keep from putting the rear bushing in such a bind that the caster cannot be adjusted. From what I have read the Panther cars like 5.5 to 6.5 degrees positive caster with wide tires up front so the steering will return to center. Same thing as both my Fox cars so I get what is meant by this now.

Here is a shot of what positive caster is relative to the center line of the ball joints:
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/Positive%20Camber_zps7zli3ufo. jpg

So with this I think I understand what has to happen now. The rear LCA mount is what controls the caster by moving the control arm forward and backward which moves the lower ball joint. I am guessing that the slot in the mount is so that when the camber is adjusted the rear can move as well to keep the LCA out of a bind.

The way this suspension mounts under an F100 the LCA rear mount cannot go to the inside of the frame like on the Panther. The rear mount ends up almost directly under the frame which necessitates installing the rear mount in that location. They split the rear mount housing and rotate the bushing inside of it for this reason which in turn allows the camber and caster adjustments to be made and not get the LCA in a bind.

Here are a couple of shots of the LCA rear mount in a 67 F100:
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/Crown%20Vic%20IFS%206_zpse2zun xut.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/Crown%20Vic%20IFS%205_zpszvkuy 2xp.jpg

[justbob]

How is caster set through the tie rods? Toe yes but caster?


Correct. Let’s call it a durp moment..

I didn’t realize they mount flat. I think you answered your own questions. [emoji1303]



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[Turbov6Bryan]

All this has been done without adjusting that mount, and tire wear is kept even

Have u referred to the car fixers specs?

[Mackdombles]

If I am understanding the question, the rear adjustment is for caster only. If you rotate the bushing to accommodate the f150 frame, then the degree of the eccentric hole must be changed. It must adjust side to side to effect caster. The front bushing adjustment is camber only but will affect the toe if adjusted after toe. Caster adjustment will also change your toe setting if adjusted after toe. You must get camber and caster adjusted first. Toe is last.

[8UWITH6]

Yes front control arm rear mount (frame) bolt is slotted to allow for caster adjustment. Front control arm front mount (aluminum engine crossmember) has hats the on the factory bolts once you knock those off you have minimal camber adjustment. They sell camber bolts and you can slot the aluminum engine crossmember control arm bolt holes for further adjustment. Sorry if I don't make sense just talking shop. Depending on your F100 frame either one of those 2 adjustments may allow for more or less impact on your alignment specs. Most all vehicle's ZERO toe, CAMBER has close to ZERO or slightly NEGATIVE 1/2 DEGREE, CASTER as even as possible or mirrored. HTH

[Aerocoupe]

So with my understanding of caster and the design of the lower control arm on these cars my take on how to adjust the caster is that you would move the back of the LCA inboard to decrease camber and outboard to increase camber. Is this correct?

[8UWITH6]

So with my understanding of caster and the design of the lower control arm on these cars my take on how to adjust the caster is that you would move the back of the LCA inboard to decrease camber and outboard to increase camber. Is this correct?

I will just say that both caster/camber adjustments will impact each other slightly. It is difficult to explain. Most camber adjustment will be from the front bolt on the crossmember. Most caster adjustment will be from the rear of the LCA mounted to the frame in the slotted bushing. But moving both adjustments together will allow you to see the min and max of each alignment angle. Assume all adjustments are on a newer style alignment rack so you can see real time readings.

[Aerocoupe]

Been super busy with the holidays so I am just getting back to this. I understand that one affects the other so my goal will be to set up the suspension caster wise at +6 degrees when I weld up the rear mount. I ordered the camber bolts and will grind the k-member and get that worked out prior to having it powder coated.

Thanks for all the replies as it was very beneficial in understanding this suspension so I don't have any reservations moving forward with it.