Replacing 2nd Set of Baer Front Brakes

[John F. Russo]

History
1st set replaced about 10k miles
2nd set about to be replaced at 23k miles

14 in. Baer slotted/drilled

With my first failure the steering wheel started to pulsate. My dealer diagnosed the problem as warped rotors. Baer replaced the rotors at no charge, but I had to pay for the labor. The new rotors were "set" per factory recommendation by my savy dealer-Wall's Lincoln Mercury in Methuen, MA.

In both cases my steering wheel started to pulsate above 40 mph and progressively worsened over a period of about four months.

I do not drive my car hard or make rapid stops frequently.

Any ideas before I replace them again with Baer, if they give me full warranty again, or should I start all over again with Wilwood?


______________________________ ___________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) w/Light Flint (reversed
traction control, mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,
clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats/mirrors, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-23,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford);godshead valve stem caps
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (5 to 9 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-Baer front brakes 14 in., two piston, slotted/drilled rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y; rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-3/4 of a coil from each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone)

[merc406]

[QUOTE=John F. Russo]History
1st set replaced about 10k miles
2nd set about to be replaced at 23k miles

14 in. Baer slotted/drilled

With my first failure the steering wheel started to pulsate. My dealer diagnosed the problem as warped rotors. Baer replaced the rotors at no charge, but I had to pay for the labor. The new rotors were "set" per factory recommendation by my savy dealer-Wall's Lincoln Mercury in Methuen, MA.

In both cases my steering wheel started to pulsate above 40 mph and progressively worsened over a period of about four months.

I do not drive my car hard or make rapid stops frequently.

Any ideas before I replace them again with Baer, if they give me full warranty again, or should I start all over again with Wilwood?


______________________________ ___________________



IMHO (which don't mean jack) ask the jerk, I mean teck that put your wheels back on what the pressure or torque they had their impacts at.
The type of rotors you have will tend to wear out the pads sooner then non drilled and slotted ones.

[David Morton]

I would hope your tech isn't so stupid as to be using "impacts" of any kind. Torqueing lug nuts, or any bolt or nut that has a torque spec. cannot be done reliably with anything other than a torque wrench.

Or the very rare hypermotivator ray-gun. :lol:

[junehhan]

I was thinking the same thing as David. I would make sure they were using a torque wrench as well. I've had the Baer 13 inch claw system before on my Taurus SHO, and no type of aggressive driving on my part could ever get them to warp.

[David Morton]

I was thinking the same thing as David. I would make sure they were using a torque wrench as well. I've had the Baer 13 inch claw system before on my Taurus SHO, and no type of aggressive driving on my part could ever get them to warp. Wow! I thought only other "area 51" workers knew about the hypermotivator ray-gun.
It's a great little appliance, isn't it? :lol:

[junehhan]

I'm actually such a paranoid person, that I immediately retorque all the lug nuts on my car right after any service that involved the lug nuts and rim being removed. Even if they did have enough sense to use a torque wrench instead of an impact gun, or torq stix, there is no telling that their wrench was calibrated properly. I also retorque my lug nuts every 1000 miles or so just in case they have backed off during those miles.

[David Morton]

I'm actually such a paranoid person, that I immediately retorque all the lug nuts on my car right after any service that involved the lug nuts and rim being removed. Even if they did have enough sense to use a torque wrench instead of an impact gun, or torq stix, there is no telling that their wrench was calibrated properly. I also retorque my lug nuts every 1000 miles or so just in case they have backed off during those miles.Me too! Dial type, beam or click? I use a click.
I had the impression from your nick that you were a girl!

Silly me. :stupid:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Do the tires have to be off the ground to torque them ??????:confused:

[David Morton]

Do the tires have to be off the ground to torque them ??????:confused:Nope. Actually, it's very hard to do if they're not. The correct pattern to follow is to tighten them in a "star pattern" just like you would draw a five pointed star. Tighten the wheel down as best you can, then let it down to the ground and torque to specs -10%, then one more time around to full specs. Check the service manual for specs. (I haven't done mine yet, only 1250 miles)

[SHERIFF]

I'm actually such a paranoid person, that I immediately retorque all the lug nuts on my car right after any service that involved the lug nuts and rim being removed.




Smart Man!!!!! I do the exact same thing. Even if it's 99 degrees and 100% humidity outdoors, it pays off to do so. :up:

[MAD-3R]

History
1st set replaced about 10k miles
2nd set about to be replaced at 23k miles

14 in. Baer slotted/drilled

With my first failure the steering wheel started to pulsate. My dealer diagnosed the problem as warped rotors. Baer replaced the rotors at no charge, but I had to pay for the labor. The new rotors were "set" per factory recommendation by my savy dealer-Wall's Lincoln Mercury in Methuen, MA.

In both cases my steering wheel started to pulsate above 40 mph and progressively worsened over a period of about four months.

I do not drive my car hard or make rapid stops frequently.

Any ideas before I replace them again with Baer, if they give me full warranty again, or should I start all over again with Wilwood?


Were the disks properly seasoned? There is a prossess where you make progressivly harder and faster stops to make sure that the rotors DON'T warp.

[Logan]

Also, this could just as easily be the problem I had, which FELT like a warped rotor would. But, at the end of the day was ultimately a combination of a crappy alignment and some poorly balanced tires.

Get your alignment checked and get your front tires roadforce balanced. The balancing made the biggest difference for me and cost me $20. I kick myself thinking the months gone by that I meant to go get the tires rebalanced and didn't. When I finally did, the problem completely disappeared.

I too at one point thought my rotors were warped, but I was wrong.

[frdwrnch]

My Baer brakes have been on for 6 months and about 3500 miles. I am just starting to feel a very slight brake vibration from the front rotors. It is minimal and I am just monitoring it for now. While I do drive this car hard from time to time, I also hand torque my lug nuts and made sure that the hubs were clean and free of corrosion prior to installing the rotors. I did notice that the rotors are a very tight fit on the wheel studs. So tight in fact that I had to use the lug nuts to pull the rotor down on the hub, which I did in an even star pattern. I'm glad to hear Baer stands behind their product as I may have to request a new set for myself. I'll keep y'all posted.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Nope. Actually, it's very hard to do if they're not. The correct pattern to follow is to tighten them in a "star pattern" just like you would draw a five pointed star. Tighten the wheel down as best you can, then let it down to the ground and torque to specs -10%, then one more time around to full specs. Check the service manual for specs. (I haven't done mine yet, only 1250 miles)
Thanks for the info Dave! :up:

[junehhan]

Smart Man!!!!! I do the exact same thing. Even if it's 99 degrees and 100% humidity outdoors, it pays off to do so. :up:


It's really my paranoid self that causes me to take excess precautions. My paranoia actually ends up driving a lot of people extremely nuts because I go extreme being the anal person I am.

David, I am actually a guy as most people seem to confuse. My handle actually is my full name as it's June H. Han, and people have confused me as a girl on just about every forum i've been a part of. I kinda find it funny and sometimes play along till someone finally figures it out. As for torque wrench, I use a Craftman click type with a digital display which I just bought. Previously, I used a cheap beam type which I canned because it just wasn't precise enough. One thing for sure, is it's not worth it to save money by buying a cheap torque wrench as it's virtually useless.

This is actually interesting as now we have two people who have had warpage issues with the Baer rotor.

[John F. Russo]

NEW DATA
I contacted Ben O'Connor of Baer brakes in Arizona. He is Kenny Brown's contact.

He said that it is very likely to be a deposit on the rotors. He told me to go out on the road and make multiple hard stops from about 60 mmph to about 15 mph until I smell a burning odor from the wheels.

I went to a local highway and started my multiple braking events. After about four events, I distinctly started to smell a burning odor as I slowed down. Even with the windows closed it permeated the interior of the car. I did it a couple of more very hard stops to make sure. I actually heat-tinted (no longer shiny) the rotors from the excessive heat buildup. The rotors were shiny before I first started.

It was interesting to see how fast my car actually stops with very hard braking. I could not get the car to skid even after putting a great amount of pressure on the brakes. I was very impressed with the Pirelli tires I have.

I then braked the car as I would do normally when I had experienced the pulsation. I noticed a major improvement in the amount of pulsation in the steering wheel. I still have some pulsation left. I'm trying to determine the extent now.

Conclusion
Most (maybe about 80%) of the pulsation problem was caused by the deposit on the rotors.

Again, it is great to have everyone compare notes on our individual problems.

As for the torqueing of the lug nuts, it very interesting to hear the number of people who do this.

I'll keep everyone up to date.

[merc406]

That's great, learn something new almost everyday here! :up:

[Fourth Horseman]

Conclusion
Most (maybe about 80%) of the pulsation problem was caused by the deposit on the rotors.

Again, it is great to have everyone compare notes on our individual problems.

As for the torqueing of the lug nuts, it very interesting to hear the number of people who do this.

So is the thinking here that under normal driving conditions (ie. not braking hard) the rotors develop some deposits? Is this another argument for the "drive it like you stole it" school of thought?

And on the lug nut torquing issue, I agree completely with what has been said above. I always use a click-style torque wrench (a Craftsman I bought at Sears) to torque the lug nuts down to 95 lb-ft. Whenever the car has been in for service I always bring it home and re-torque them, just to be safe.

Keep us posted on what you learn. I'm planning on getting these brakes myself some day and am interested in what you find out.

[David Morton]

NEW DATA
I contacted Ben O'Connor of Baer brakes in Arizona. He is Kenny Brown's contact.

He said that it is very likely to be a deposit on the rotors. He told me to go out on the road and make multiple hard stops from about 60 mmph to about 15 mph until I smell a burning odor from the wheels.

I went to a local highway and started my multiple braking events. After about four events, I distinctly started to smell a burning odor as I slowed down. Even with the windows closed it permeated the interior of the car. I did it a couple of more very hard stops to make sure. I actually heat-tinted (no longer shiny) the rotors from the excessive heat buildup. The rotors were shiny before I first started.

It was interesting to see how fast my car actually stops with very hard braking. I could not get the car to skid even after putting a great amount of pressure on the brakes. I was very impressed with the Pirelli tires I have.

I then braked the car as I would do normally when I had experienced the pulsation. I noticed a major improvement in the amount of pulsation in the steering wheel. I still have some pulsation left. I'm trying to determine the extent now.

Conclusion
Most (maybe about 80%) of the pulsation problem was caused by the deposit on the rotors.

Again, it is great to have everyone compare notes on our individual problems.

As for the torqueing of the lug nuts, it very interesting to hear the number of people who do this.

I'll keep everyone up to date.Yeah, keep us posted.

I don't know about a brake company rep telling me to go smoke the brakes for "deposits". I've been taught by General Motors Factory Service Training Center personnel that blue rotors and smoking pads are bad things. :shake:

[HwyCruiser]

John,

I'm glad to hear your getting the brake pulsation worked out.

IMO, the braided lines will feed back any little bit of deposit that wouldn't otherwise be felt with the OEM rubber lines. The combination of more aggressive pad composition and braided lines mean that you will have to put them to task every once in awhile to freshen things up.

A trick ToddTCE told me was to take some sandpaper to the rotors and pads to put them through another seasoning cycle.

Balancing the wheels again couldn't hurt. Last ditch could be having the rotors turned on the spindles, a couple hundredths will make performance brakes feel like they are FUBAR'ed.

Good luck!

- JD

[TAF]

Yeah, keep us posted.

I don't know about a brake company rep telling me to go smoke the brakes for "deposits". I've been taught by General Motors Factory Service Training Center personnel that blue rotors and smoking pads are bad things. :shake:On high quality brakes...not those that would some from General Motors, Ford...or most any "factory" brake set-ups....it is VERY important to "seat" the brakes....otherwise you can get "glazing" on the calipers and rotors.

The advice given to John from Baer was correct (and also given to JD ^^^ from Todd @ TCE). "Seating" is Not good to do with cheap factory brakes...but ESSENTIAL to do with REAL brakes. :up:

[martyo]

On high quality brakes...not those that would some from General Motors, Ford...or most any "factory" brake set-ups....it is VERY important to "seat" the brakes....otherwise you can get "glazing" on the calipers and rotors.

Can improper seating cause that annoying squeak when the brakes are applied? :confused:

[David Morton]

On high quality brakes...not those that would some from General Motors, Ford...or most any "factory" brake set-ups....it is VERY important to "seat" the brakes....otherwise you can get "glazing" on the calipers and rotors.

The advice given to John from Baer was correct (and also given to JD ^^^ from Todd @ TCE). "Seating" is Not good to do with cheap factory brakes...but ESSENTIAL to do with REAL brakes. :up:Thanks for the info. I will be upgrading after I get the Trilogy and driveshaft.
General Motors 'W' body cars used to need seating after turning the rotors, you almost had no brakes at all unless you went out and heated them up pretty good, but I found that if after the lathe finished it's cutting, I took a ScotchBrite pad on a die grinder and put a nice swirl pattern on the rotors while the lathe was still turning and then installed them they would not need seating, in fact they would be at the best ever, better than new rotors that had the 'ground' finish. Anybody try this with the Baers?

[gonzo50]

I've never heard of this happening to any other cars with the Baer Package, ie: Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, ect. ect. ect....
Is this Marauder specific only ?
I'm also interested in the Baer Package, but I'm going to wait on this one, might even think about the KVR kit from Dennis if the Baer kit keeps acting up. :shot: