Upsetting News!!!

[prg333]

I had posted a few weeks ago about my 2004 Marauder that has 201,4325 miles. There was the tell tale sound on start up of a chain and tensioners that needed to be done. I followed advise from Marty a member and had the car flat bedded down to Quality Auto in West Nyack NY. Keith was friendly and said he would check the oil and we could go from there.. Sadly he notified me that he found a lot of aluminum in the oil when he drained it, also when he just checked with the dip stick He also detected a misfire
when he started it and it ran a bit rough.. So basically the engine IS FULL of Aluminum. He did not think there were any big pieces of plastic from the tensioners in the oil pan, as he tested that with a magnet.

He things the Aluminum may not all be from the chain's. But he would NOT recommend putting new chains or tensioners. As the only option for the current engine would be to re-build the engine.

But with over 200,000 miles other major things like the transmission may need service.

I also just had the cooling system all redone and the right real axel shaft done with new rear brakes. Which was costly

Getting a engine with lower miles put in could be an option I suppose.

Any advise or thoughts would be appreciated..

Maybe getting another Marauder with lowish miles, if anyone has a nice one
they might want to sell, to a fellow member

I hate to not have a Mighty marauder to enjoy driving.

[mm svt]

Still pull the timing cover because if the guides plastic part is completely gone then that would be the source of the non magnetic metal.

[Ambitious1]

Any advise or thoughts would be appreciated..

Maybe getting another Marauder with lowish miles, if anyone has a nice one
they might want to sell, to a fellow member

I hate to not have a Mighty marauder to enjoy driving.


I would ask what is the condition of the rest of the car? Any rust? Any other major components failing? If the car is not rusted and the frame is solid, it may be worth putting a new engine and going another 200K. I would take a good look at the rest of the car, transmission, exhaust, gears and suspension before making a decision.

[prg333]

Good advice I’ll overlook the rest of the car and see if the other major components you mentioned are in good enough shape to possibly put an engine in. Thank you for your advice

[Agent2006]

Maybe you can swap over a Lincoln Aviator engine with lower miles -might be cheaper than a full rebuild.

[sailsmen]

Buy another MM and part this one out. How are the Floor Mats?

[decipha]

Instead of speculating I would just pull the timing cover and see what you really have.

I have almost 250k miles on my 03 and it runs smoother and better than my friends 04 with only 60k miles. Mileage isn't a determination in itself.

[Turbov6Bryan]

Chain probably wearing into timing cover, I'd clean it up, redo chains and guides tensioners and see how long it lasts

[Marauderjack]

FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC.....sounds like this guy saw ya coming!!:eek::rolleyes::shake:

[prg333]

The car is very clean. No leaks fluid from anything like the transmission or from the engine
No rust all of the frame is in good shape. Shocks and struts fine air suspension still works
Paint looks good no leaking from the moon roof. So it might be worth putting a different engine into it. I really hate to just get rid of the car

[prg333]

I’m a little wary of just replacing the chains and tensioners. As there is a lot of aluminum in the oil that I was given from the shop. You can see the light color of the aluminum in the oil
The timing of the engine might be off now some of the valves probably have wear at this high mileage anyway.

[prg333]

How involved is pulling off the timing cover to check.

[376shovel]

I just swapped out my stock engine with 130k on it because I thought it had the head tick. Turns out it was my flexplate. The only thing the engine needs is fresh valve seals. I'm selling it as a long block. PM me for pics if interested.

[prg333]

The passenger side floor mat is pretty good the driver side has some wear. I don’t remember if the rear floor mats are original or I bought them somewhere else

[mm svt]

You really need a shop familiar with these engines. They should be able to remove the timing cover before you go any further. It’s really not like it’s difficult but if they should be familiar with these engines before stating the worst case scenario.

[prg333]

Probably is a good idea to look under the timing cover before any kind of work is done like a rebuild or even doing the tensioners and chains.

[justbob]

Most reputable shops would not perform work such as timing chains on a 200,000 mile engine with all kinds of floating debris in the oil. There is no kind of guarantee how long it would last before something else failed and they have a name to protect. It’s just smart business.

Personally if I were on a budget, I would prefer to have a lower mile clean engine installed over a rebuild. I’ve seen way too many rebuilds fail. Same goes for the trans.


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[prg333]

Yes that is probably a Good way to go and try to get a clean good engine Lower miles possibly Then rebuilding an engine with so many miles. I can find one one that’s reasonably priced That’s not going to have some kind of other problem if it wasn’t maintained well when it was in the car

[burt ragio]

It's hard to believe you had no indication of wear such as chain rattle or particles in the oil. I would scope the cylinder walls do a compression test & leak down. Based on results either swap out motor or install new chain tentioners and guides. then new coils on plugs & sparkplugs.

[prg333]

I should get the guy to pull the timing cover. Yes a compression test would be a good idea
Before any work could be done at all yes those things would be good thank you for the good suggestions advice

[prg333]

I’m thinking of that option possibly. The car is very clean no rust the paint looks good all around still. Very clean underneath no leaking of anything. I could have them do a compression test to see how the engineers and all the cylinders. Based on that and pulling the timing cover I think I would probably go with doing the tensioners in chains rather than a rebuild for 6000. Hopefully doing the tensions chains water pump spark plugs will get me another 40,000 miles or so with that engine

[88grandmarq]

pull the timing cover and pull the engine oil pan. find the source of the metal. then you can make an educated decision based on the facts and evidence.

btw, worn timing chain guides will cause aluminum in the oil.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a414/88grandmarq/Geoff_93_Crownvic/IMG_1068_zpsnrtovtmi.jpg

[prg333]

pull the timing cover and pull the engine oil pan. find the source of the metal. then you can make an educated decision based on the facts and evidence.

btw, worn timing chain guides will cause aluminum in the oil.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a414/88grandmarq/Geoff_93_Crownvic/IMG_1068_zpsnrtovtmi.jpg
Thank you for the advice to pull the engine oil pan do you have to take the engine out of the car can you do without removing the engine. Someone told me you can only do it by taking the engine out. This may be incorrect. The thinking from the mechanic that the aluminum came from the wearing of the Timing chain and guides. But it could be coming from some other part of the engine possibly as well. But checking those two things the timing cover and the oil pan would give a better picture of what’s happening But aluminum in the oil obviously is not very good for parts of the engine causing wear And possible failure of other parts of the engine pistons, rods etc..

[justbob]

Engine out or K member dropped.


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[Turbov6Bryan]

Tell you this.
You really should replace the oil pump, the pan has to come off to do it

If you had a bunch of metal go through the engine, the pump will fail. Your bearings might be ok since they are filtered.

You can almost sell yours and buy another and be money ahead, with a lower mile mm

[88grandmarq]

Tell you this.
You really should replace the oil pump, the pan has to come off to do it

If you had a bunch of metal go through the engine, the pump will fail. Your bearings might be ok since they are filtered.

You can almost sell yours and buy another and be money ahead, with a lower mile mm

exactly my point. we dont know how much metal there acutally is, if any, or where it came from. is the shop just telling the owner there is metal because its high mileage and he doenst want to work on it?

remove the oil pan, remove the front cover and inspect for damage. show us the metal debris and the damage then the owner can make an educated decision based on facts.

[88grandmarq]

drop the K member and oil pan comes off with no problem.

been there, done that ... got the T-shirt

[prg333]

Yes I was thinking the oil pump would have to be replaced also and of course the oil pan would have to be taken down. True maybe I could sell my car for a decent price and then get a lower mileage marauder. Not sure what I could get for it with those high miles except for the engine Needing to be worked on everything else About the car is in good shape especially with the air-conditioning system I got everything we done including the blend door lots of hoses pipes crossover tube. The air-conditioning works better now than it has in years. When it’s waxed and polished up it really looks good as the paint has really held up No rust on the car either as it’s not ever driven in the winter

[prg333]

Good point about pulling the Oil pan and front cover. To see if there’s more debris . And damage as well. I think you have to drop the K Member to get to the oil pan the only other option I know is to take out the engine. To get to the oil pan. By doing those things yes would definitely give a better picture of how much damage may have been done

[akr619]

https://orlando.craigslist.org/pts/d/2003-mercury-marauder-engine/6627721062.html

[prg333]

Most reputable shops would not perform work such as timing chains on a 200,000 mile engine with all kinds of floating debris in the oil. There is no kind of guarantee how long it would last before something else failed and they have a name to protect. It’s just smart business.

Personally if I were on a budget, I would prefer to have a lower mile clean engine installed over a rebuild. I’ve seen way too many rebuilds fail. Same goes for the trans.


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It wouldn’t be good for rebuild to fail obviously. From your experience how many miles can you get out of a rebuilt engine versus dropping in a lower mileage engine assuming that engine is in good shape and has low miles they say it does. The only way to see how much damage possibly been caused to my engine from the chain rubbing up against metal where you get the aluminum from obviously is probably be dropping the oil pan in checking the front cover for more metal debris and see if there’s damage there too.

[prg333]

Thank you for the link to the craigslist with the engine