Question about timing cover removal

[HotRaud90]

I'm in the middle of removing my timing cover for chain guides and tensioners. Cam covers are off, all accessories and bolts removed from cover, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how to shimmy the cover out. The tabs at the bottom won't let me slide it forward without lifting up, and when I try to lift up, the water pump is in the way and won't allow me to lift up. Additionally, I can only tilt it so far out before it hits the COT. I did not remove COT or water pump because I had heard of others being able to do this job without touching the cooling system or draining anything. I swear I'm not imagining that; so I'm either a dunce or there's b.s. floating around. Can anyone attest to that? If you succeeded, how'd you do it? Thanks in advance. Pics below COT clearance, water pump, and oil pan tab clearance issues.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180731/0c0c23c6fdb01dfc0c7ce0a28c9388 fb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180731/f36497c3409211d88fc882914c70da 6d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180731/6b786ae8765d984ea831a71de0e63c 0a.jpg

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[musclemerc]

If something is in the way while attempting to complete a task, remove the obstacle and complete the task.

Say this 5 times and try again

[03Merc]

Did You remove the bolts from the oil pan?


I don't think You can get the top bolt out without removing the COT.

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[HotRaud90]

If something is in the way while attempting to complete a task, remove the obstacle and complete the task.

Say this 5 times and try again

I hear ya! That's definitely an option, but I simply don't WANT to do that if I can avoid it. The reason I asked about this is that I have read of some who claimed they didn't remove anything cooling system related. I was looking for answers as to how it might be possible.

If all else fails, removal is in order. Unfortunately, that would mean draining the cooling system...


Did You remove the bolts from the oil pan?


I don't think you can get the top bolt out without removing the COT.

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I removed the front four pan bolts that are directly underneath the timing cover. That's all that's required right? Or did I miss something? Maybe it's possible to remove a couple more towards the front of the pan in order to be able push it down the 2-3 mm of clearance needed to pull the bottom of the cover free?

And yes, I believe you're right about the top bolt being blocked by COT (terrible engineering). But the way I looked at, I would be able to maneuver it out without removing anything. That's before I discovered the oil pan tabs and water pump would block such a maneuver.

[GoldPanther]

Did you remove the fan assembly?

[HotRaud90]

Did you remove the fan assembly?

Yes, I did.

[justbob]

Did you remove the two power steering pump bolts and ground cable?

If so, then you’re just stuck on the dabs of silicone. It should pull straight off.


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[HotRaud90]

Did you remove the two power steering pump bolts and ground cable?

If so, then you’re just stuck on the dabs of silicone. It should pull straight off.


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PS pump and ground cables are free. Where are the silicone dabs to which you're referring?

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[a_d_a_m]

RTV locations:
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/4-6l-tech/295434d1387331993-harmonic-balancer-help-timing11of11.gif

[Shinker]

I replaced tensioners last year and did not drain the coolant.

[Shinker]

I remember getting timing cover loose , shifting it to the drivers side then tilting it and lifting it out

[HotRaud90]

Achieved success this morning without having to remove or drain anything. There are two small tabs on the front of the oil pan gasket that prevent the cover from sliding forward. I simply had to apply some downward pressure on these tabs while pulling on the cover with a little bit of muscle and it finally slipped right over the tabs.

On to my next question. Here's a picture of my passenger side timing chain. The timing marks on the cam and crank sprockets are in between links on the timing chain. I've always seen instructions that say to line up the timing marks on the crank/cam gears with opposing end links on the chain. My chain seems odd in that the timing dots are in between links. This is ONLY on my passenger side. My driver side timing marks are lined up directly on opposing links. Is this a problem, or just a result of the revolution sequence that my engine is currently on? I've included pics for reference.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180801/5c3bf2fd6bbf93d9d4f561abf90e25 59.jpg

I will adjust the chain if necessary. It seems ridiculously easy to time this engine, but I may be oversimplifying it. First, timing mark on crank gear should be rotated until it's at 6 o' clock. Then, with a sharpie or equivalent, simply mark the links that align with the timing marks on the sprockets. When reassembling, simply line up the marked chain links with the timing marks on sprockets, making sure that the crank sprocket timing mark is still at 6 o' clock. Am I right in saying this gives the liberty to slightly move the cam sprocket during reassembly because you have everything marked up prior to disassembly?

Where's Zack? I need some blunt affirmation! [emoji38]

[HotRaud90]

Well, I did it without any confirmation. Took off both chains, marked opposing end links, and lined up the timing marks on both chains and the crank and cam sprockets. Installed guides, tensioner arms, and tensioners. Passenger side cam sprocket moved a bit a couple of times, but it wasn't a problem since the crank shaft remained stationary. Simply rotated cam sprocket back in place and lined up the timing marks to the marked chain links.

Next step...how the hell do you remove the old crankshaft seal? It's a must now. Attempted to pull it out with a pick tool and it slipped and ripped right through the rubber. So what a the simplest way to do this? Any tips or tricks that don't require specialty tools? Thanks in advance.

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[musclemerc]

use a big socket to knock it out.

you can also cut a piece of 2x4 with a hole saw and use the circle to knock it out and reinstall the seal.

[musclemerc]

Achieved success this morning without having to remove or drain anything. There are two small tabs on the front of the oil pan gasket that prevent the cover from sliding forward. I simply had to apply some downward pressure on these tabs while pulling on the cover with a little bit of muscle and it finally slipped right over the tabs.

On to my next question. Here's a picture of my passenger side timing chain. The timing marks on the cam and crank sprockets are in between links on the timing chain. I've always seen instructions that say to line up the timing marks on the crank/cam gears with opposing end links on the chain. My chain seems odd in that the timing dots are in between links. This is ONLY on my passenger side. My driver side timing marks are lined up directly on opposing links. Is this a problem, or just a result of the revolution sequence that my engine is currently on? I've included pics for reference.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180801/5c3bf2fd6bbf93d9d4f561abf90e25 59.jpg

I will adjust the chain if necessary. It seems ridiculously easy to time this engine, but I may be oversimplifying it. First, timing mark on crank gear should be rotated until it's at 6 o' clock. Then, with a sharpie or equivalent, simply mark the links that align with the timing marks on the sprockets. When reassembling, simply line up the marked chain links with the timing marks on sprockets, making sure that the crank sprocket timing mark is still at 6 o' clock. Am I right in saying this gives the liberty to slightly move the cam sprocket during reassembly because you have everything marked up prior to disassembly?

Where's Zack? I need some blunt affirmation! [emoji38]

6:00 @TDC (compression stroke) on the crank
IIRC the PS needs to be @12:00 DS needs to be @11:00

[HotRaud90]

6:00 @TDC (compression stroke) on the crank
IIRC the PS needs to be @12:00 DS needs to be @11:00It's the other way. Passenger side is approximately 12 o clock and driver side is approximately 11 o clock. Found it in some Ford repair documentation and a_d_a_m's write up below:

http://crownvic.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=1712&pid=14099#pid14099

Thank you for confirming. Cam sprockets moved around on me a bit when changing the chains, but ended back up at approximately 12 PS and 11 DS once I lined up chains with their timing marks and the crank at 6 o clock TDC.

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[HotRaud90]

use a big socket to knock it out.

you can also cut a piece of 2x4 with a hole saw and use the circle to knock it out and reinstall the seal.Knocks out from the rear, correct? As in, hit it from the backside of the seal?

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[justgod]

Knocks out from the rear, correct? As in, hit it from the backside of the seal?

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Yes, that’s fine. Just don’t ding up the aluminum

Btw:
https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-6004-A464.pdf

[HotRaud90]

Yep, that's the Ford parts manual I referenced. A great manual for anyone looking to do this job (once you're finally inside the cover).

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[musclemerc]

6:00 @TDC (compression stroke) on the crank
IIRC the PS needs to be @12:00 DS needs to be @11:00


It's the other way. Passenger side is approximately 12 o clock and driver side is approximately 11 o clock. Found it in some Ford repair documentation and a_d_a_m's write up below:

http://crownvic.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=1712&pid=14099#pid14099

Thank you for confirming. Cam sprockets moved around on me a bit when changing the chains, but ended back up at approximately 12 PS and 11 DS once I lined up chains with their timing marks and the crank at 6 o clock TDC.

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It's the other way? You wrote the exact words I said.

[justgod]

It's the other way? You wrote the exact words I said.

Don’t three lefts make a right? :banana2:

[musclemerc]

I guess so.

Try to help the guy he says I gave incorrect info.

Always tried to issue correct info, this time was no diffrent.

[justgod]

I’m trying to be sarcastifunny. Not working:rolleyes:
You’re a great help on this board to many and bend over backwards. Dont stop. :beer:

[HotRaud90]

It's the other way? You wrote the exact words I said.Whoops. My brain saw "12:00" next to "DS" and interpreted it incorrectly. My goof. You were correct indeed. Thanks for confirming.

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[shodude]

just wanted to to say thanks for this thread... i'm arms deep in my girl (tee hee) and was just looking at this bolt like "you've got to be kidding me"

Thanks for the help of another stuck marauder bro.