10spd auto in a panther chassis

[88grandmarq]

discuss....

https://youtu.be/48KztMB3Zpw

[musclemerc]

Subscribing

[Logan86]

I'm down for this!

[MyBlackBeasts]

Cool fab work but I don't know why one would want to do this.


I have the 10sp in my new F150 and positively hate it.


Don't know anything about the 6sp auto, might be better than 10sp swap if it has 2 O/D gears for final.

[Logan86]

Cool fab work but I don't know why one would want to do this.


I have the 10sp in my new F150 and positively hate it.


Don't know anything about the 6sp auto, might be better than 10sp swap if it has 2 O/D gears for final.


The new 10 speed is awesome with proper tuning. In factory form I will agree that it leaves a bit to be desired. If you get a chance to experience one in a tuned Mustang or F-150 I think you'd enjoy it.

[MyBlackBeasts]

The new 10 speed is awesome with proper tuning. In factory form I will agree that it leaves a bit to be desired. If you get a chance to experience one in a tuned Mustang or F-150 I think you'd enjoy it.


Don't feel shifts, It's like driving a CVT trans. Gears are so close together the engine barely gains any RPMs. Boring - sucks.


It is also always hunting for gears and occasionally will stick in a gear and feel like its binding then finally it downshifts with a big clang somewhere in the drive-line.


I love driving, a major part of the driving love is winding an engine out and shifting gears which is why my 1st love is a manual transmission. If I can't have a MT (the useless pricks at FOMOCO don't even offer one anymore, almost went and got a Turdota because of this but just couldn't do it) then I want an A/T that has aggressive shift points like my MM with a head-snapping Jmod.

[Fastbob]

Cool fab work but I don't know why one would want to do this.


I have the 10sp in my new F150 and positively hate it.


Don't know anything about the 6sp auto, might be better than 10sp swap if it has 2 O/D gears for final.
Interesting, I have a brand new F-150 4x4 Screw with the 5.0 and the 10 speed and I think the transmission is fantastic. It is NOT meant to be a sports car.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Interesting, I have a brand new F-150 4x4 Screw with the 5.0 and the 10 speed and I think the transmission is fantastic. It is NOT meant to be a sports car.


Don't expect it to be a sports car, the love of driving described in post 6 still applies. If it had a M/T, all would be great. As is with the 10spd, IMO it sucks. Just 1 item on the list of things I don't like on the truck.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Finally a modern transmission option, too bad cutting the k-member is needed. These things take tons of abuse on mustangs and are quick to shift.

[burt ragio]

love to know the final outcome after the finishing touches. 2nd option add paddle shifters.

[Invective]

Just appeared in Car and Driver online. Writers gave their opinions on brand new Mustang Ecoboost and Mustang GT equipped with the 10 speed auto.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-ford-mustang-automatic-transmission-performance?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=111218

[BAD MERC]

I am curious to see the acceleration times and weight difference penalty, if any.

[justbob]

Don't feel shifts, It's like driving a CVT trans. Gears are so close together the engine barely gains any RPMs. Boring - sucks.


It is also always hunting for gears and occasionally will stick in a gear and feel like its binding then finally it downshifts with a big clang somewhere in the drive-line.


I love driving, a major part of the driving love is winding an engine out and shifting gears which is why my 1st love is a manual transmission. If I can't have a MT (the useless pricks at FOMOCO don't even offer one anymore, almost went and got a Turdota because of this but just couldn't do it) then I want an A/T that has aggressive shift points like my MM with a head-snapping Jmod.



Put the hammer down more. My Chevy van with the 5.3 & 6 speed is a sluggish turd for the first 10-20 feet but then the RPMs finally go up and shift-shift-shift and I’m up to 70 fairly quick. My old Ford with the 4.6 & 4 speed was a sluggish turd for all feet...

I’ve learned to get on it and stay on it letting the RPMs and shifts do their thing. Drive it anywhere close to normal and she struggles the same as the Ford did.


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[MyBlackBeasts]

Put the hammer down more. My Chevy van with the 5.3 & 6 speed is a sluggish turd for the first 10-20 feet but then the RPMs finally go up and shift-shift-shift and I’m up to 70 fairly quick. My old Ford with the 4.6 & 4 speed was a sluggish turd for all feet...

I’ve learned to get on it and stay on it letting the RPMs and shifts do their thing. Drive it anywhere close to normal and she struggles the same as the Ford did.


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Oh I hammer it all the time, issue is with so many gears it shifts so fast you can barely feel the gear change.


I have a huge love/hate relationship with the thing. Very disappointed with Ford engineers on lots about it. I do like the Sync, big thumbs up on that.


My biggest b!t ch is the auto-start/stop and the fact Dorf made it so it can't be shut off permanently (yet again another example of taking control away from the consumer). One of my clients is a tech at local Ford dealer, he says people hate it and complain all the time. Told me 1 way to permanently disable it is to leave a trailer light test plug plugged in all the time. Haven't tried yet, will as soon as I find one

[2mercs]

Oh I hammer it all the time, issue is with so many gears it shifts so fast you can barely feel the gear change.


I have a huge love/hate relationship with the thing. Very disappointed with Ford engineers on lots about it. I do like the Sync, big thumbs up on that.


My biggest b!t ch is the auto-start/stop and the fact Dorf made it so it can't be shut off permanently (yet again another example of taking control away from the consumer). One of my clients is a tech at local Ford dealer, he says people hate it and complain all the time. Told me 1 way to permanently disable it is to leave a trailer light test plug plugged in all the time. Haven't tried yet, will as soon as I find oneCheck out forscan. I turned off the start stop, fogs stay on with high beams, and a few other things with the software.

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[Logan86]

My biggest b!t ch is the auto-start/stop and the fact Dorf made it so it can't be shut off permanently (yet again another example of taking control away from the consumer). One of my clients is a tech at local Ford dealer, he says people hate it and complain all the time. Told me 1 way to permanently disable it is to leave a trailer light test plug plugged in all the time. Haven't tried yet, will as soon as I find one

The auto start/stop contributes to the fuel economy ratings of the cars, hence why it can't be permanently disabled. The heavy hitters at Ford knew this would be an unloved feature which is why you have the option to temporariliy disable it but had they made that a permanent on/off switch then you couldn't really say it benefits the car's EPA rating. People are resistant to change so to a degree the manufacturers have to shove a little tech down our throats from time to time.

[Joe Walsh]

The auto start/stop contributes to the fuel economy ratings of the cars, hence why it can't be permanently disabled. The heavy hitters at Ford knew this would be an unloved feature which is why you have the option to temporariliy disable it but had they made that a permanent on/off switch then you couldn't really say it benefits the car's EPA rating. People are resistant to change so to a degree the manufacturers have to shove a little tech down our throats from time to time.

Just wondering....:hmmm:
Do any of the manufacturers who offer this feature, 'beef up' the starter motors to account for the umpteen thousands of extra starts that occur because of it?

(Or are they just planning on selling a LOT of starter motors over the parts counter...)

Sorry to OP for the thread HiJack....10 speed in a Panther is a very cool mod!

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Just wondering....:hmmm:
Do any of the manufacturers who offer this feature, 'beef up' the starter motors to account for the umpteen thousands of extra starts that occur because of it?

(Or are they just planning on selling a LOT of starter motors over the parts counter...)

Sorry to OP for the thread HiJack....10 speed in a Panther is a very cool mod!

They do. The regular cars I believe also stop the cranks at certain positions to start easier. I am not a fan, but can see why they went this route to save fuel if the cars are only made to last 10 years.

The 2019 RAMs though use a new 48v motor/generator as the alternator replacement called eTorque made to start the engine during these pauses, as well as a hybrid propulsion device of about another 100ft lbs of torque.

But boo to new technology right... because 70s chassis' and 4 speed autos. :rolleyes:

[RubberCtyRauder]

I have the option to turn the stop/start feature off on my daily..and it is off.

[88grandmarq]

Check out forscan. I turned off the start stop, fogs stay on with high beams, and a few other things with the software.

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agreed... ForScan is a great tool and you can enable and disable most functions on most modules, EXCEPT the PCM

[Fastbob]

The start and stop feature also requires an AGM battery. Ford parts catalog says warranty is no good on Motorcraft BXT flooded batteries if used on vehicles with stop and start. Of course the AGM Motorcraft batteries are about $50 to $60 more than their flooded counterparts.

[hotford]

I think its good that shift 6 is actually doing one.

as for the complaint about the 10 speed shift how its unsure what gear its in, a good tuner can fix all the little issues.

[Logan86]

Just wondering....:hmmm:
Do any of the manufacturers who offer this feature, 'beef up' the starter motors to account for the umpteen thousands of extra starts that occur because of it?

(Or are they just planning on selling a LOT of starter motors over the parts counter...)

Sorry to OP for the thread HiJack....10 speed in a Panther is a very cool mod!

They do. Personally, I think it's a bit gimmicky and it kind of bugs me since every mechanical fiber in my body goes tense when a vehicle "dies" at a stop but so goes progress.

Back on topic though, I am going to have to transplant a 10 speed in your Marauder (you have legacy ownership) if this ever becomes a plug and play option.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Check out forscan. I turned off the start stop, fogs stay on with high beams, and a few other things with the software.

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It says the majority of adapters are real bad clones that don't work.


Which adapter do you have & where did you get it?

[2mercs]

It says the majority of adapters are real bad clones that don't work.


Which adapter do you have & where did you get it?Amazon. OHP ELMconfig OBD2 to USB ELM327 Adapter with MS-Can & HS-Can Switch and Forscan Compatible for DIY Ford Diagnostics on Windows https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F0GVBWY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_xNu7BbPQ6F8 A1

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[Joe Walsh]

They do. Personally, I think it's a bit gimmicky and it kind of bugs me since every mechanical fiber in my body goes tense when a vehicle "dies" at a stop but so goes progress.

Back on topic though, I am going to have to transplant a 10 speed in your Marauder (you have legacy ownership) if this ever becomes a plug and play option.

Go for it!
That would be a sweet mod.
(drop in a 5.0 Coyote with the 10 speed to make the swap easier...:D)

[88grandmarq]

Amazon. OHP ELMconfig OBD2 to USB ELM327 Adapter with MS-Can & HS-Can Switch and Forscan Compatible for DIY Ford Diagnostics on Windows https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F0GVBWY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_xNu7BbPQ6F8 A1

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Yep, thats the one you want.

[MyBlackBeasts]

The auto start/stop contributes to the fuel economy ratings of the cars, hence why it can't be permanently disabled. The heavy hitters at Ford knew this would be an unloved feature which is why you have the option to temporariliy disable it but had they made that a permanent on/off switch then you couldn't really say it benefits the car's EPA rating. People are resistant to change so to a degree the manufacturers have to shove a little tech down our throats from time to time.


I figured that but if they really cared about CAFE they would have supercharged some of the 4.6 vehicles and gained an easy 2mpg to factor in to CAFE.


The ASS (appropriate acronym) will result in fuel savings if you live in LA but it does NOTHING for everyone living in a non-gridlocked urban area.


I'm not about to burn up a $1000 starter to save a tablespoon of gas.


I have a client at my local Ford dealer that is a tech and he tells me that EVERYONE complains about and HATES the ASS.


I'm not resistant to change when it's good but sure as h ell will when it's bad. To blindly accept change = serf or lemming.


If I could have gotten the M/T I wanted you wouldn't have heard me complain about the 10sp... But that's a whole other thread...


Sorry to OP about the thread hijack. As ya'll were. :-)

[MyBlackBeasts]

I have the option to turn the stop/start feature off on my daily..and it is off.


When you start the vehicle the next time is it still off?

[MyBlackBeasts]

as for the complaint about the 10 speed shift how its unsure what gear its in, a good tuner can fix all the little issues.


True but:


a person shouldn't have to pay someone the to "fix" the issues on a $50,000 truck that the manufacturer had the ability to "fix" but couldn't be bothered to do
This is a lease (I will not own anything manufactured after 2010) so as I'm renting it I can't mess with it

[MyBlackBeasts]

Amazon. OHP ELMconfig OBD2 to USB ELM327 Adapter with MS-Can & HS-Can Switch and Forscan Compatible for DIY Ford Diagnostics on Windows https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F0GVBWY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_xNu7BbPQ6F8 A1

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Thanks! Ordering tomorrow.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Yep, thats the one you want.


Thanks!


How's Indiana?


Trans is operating like the well oiled sewing machine. Thanks for the info. :)

[Invective]

Amazon. OHP ELMconfig OBD2 to USB ELM327 Adapter with MS-Can & HS-Can Switch and Forscan Compatible for DIY Ford Diagnostics on Windows https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F0GVBWY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_xNu7BbPQ6F8 A1

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Thanks for this. Similar to the Dealer Tool program and adapter for my bikes. Been a Mac person forever so I have this and the SCT programs loaded onto a refurb HP 'Stream' laptop.

https://dealertoolcouk.ipage.com/webkit.JPG

[RubberCtyRauder]

When you start the vehicle the next time is it still off?


It's still off, it's a button above start button.

[Taemian]

This:


https://www.motortrend.com/news/why-the-2018-ford-mustang-gt-automatic-is-so-much-quicker-than-the-manual/

[justbob]

This:


https://www.motortrend.com/news/why-the-2018-ford-mustang-gt-automatic-is-so-much-quicker-than-the-manual/



Was he short shifting? I see his shift speeds are within 2-3 MPH (slower) than when I shift for the 2-3 and the 3-4 and I’m shifting at 6,000 RPM’s with a 4.10 to their 3.73.

I average 78 going into 3rd and right around 115 into 4th.

Either way it’s common sense that you aren’t going to out shift a newer auto. Plus the power loss is probably a good percentage less than the older autos.


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[MyBlackBeasts]

This:


https://www.motortrend.com/news/why-the-2018-ford-mustang-gt-automatic-is-so-much-quicker-than-the-manual/


Unless all you want to do is run the dragstrip & win, IMHO this is all lose.


You lose hearing the engine rev between shifts


You lose feeling each gear engage


And in comparison to M/T, you lose 99% of the driving experience/enjoyment from shifting & banging gears - what really puts a smile on your face.


If someone wants this, they should save their $$$ and go drive mom's SUV with a CVT trans... :shake:

[Taemian]

Well, yes, some of us DO in fact like to win. Your argument doesn't really hold water in some fronts IMHO.

Do any of us run really hard all season tires (Treadwear rating 480+) just because we love to hear screeching tires? Doesn't that take away sound from the "experience"? This is the exact same reasoning you've used. What's next? "If you don't run bias ply radials like on old musclecars, you lose the experience of tires screeching, gettin squirrelly through the corners and *****ing your pants. That's what a REAL driver in a REAL car does."

Or "Running open exhaust is waaay better because you get more horsepower and it sounds cool. Mufflers are for girlie men."

Who bangs and clangs shifts when not racing?? If I'm doing some spirited driving OR racing, my smile comes from looking in my rear view mirror and seeing who/what's in it and what my capability in the car is.

Who among us hasn't had the VTEC Honda with the huge fart can in traffic? Thinking about said Honda, as well as both your argument and your preferred method/experience of driving, Shakespeare said it best : "It is a tale told...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

I LOVE cruising in restored muscle cars, they have a charm of raw gasoline smell and vinyl seats to slide around while cornering hard. They have amazing character all their own. But to say that "If you don't have carburetors and the uneven lope of racing cams, it's not the full muscle car experience" is pretty silly. Especially when the world has 700+hp daily drivers from many manufacturers that use fuel injection/computers to achieve anything between calm daily driving and solid track competition.

Would you rather be driving a 1970 Marauder? Progress is not the enemy.

[Bondfreak13]

The only problem I have with the ten Speed auto is all the Problems that Chevy and Ford are having with it. My friend at my local Ford dealer Loves the new 10 speeds for their lack of reliability, he has so many coming in he's making quite a bit of money on repairs. I think it's a cool swap. But I question the cost and reliability vs a Gear Vendor unit.

one thing I do like about the 10 speed is it has a real overdrive, 3 of them is a bit over kill, but gears 8,9,and 10 are all in the .6 range with 10th being .64. Unlike the 5 & 6 speed autos that very similar OD with the 4 speed auto.

[Taemian]

Like any new tech, it has it's teething problems. Remember the first Mustang with the Central Injection System? The carb-like thing that sprayed a single stream straight into the manifold? Yikes, I worked on those.

I've got a friend with a Gear Vendor unit in his Marauder, I'll ask him what he thinks of it.

And....I'm not even going to mention the rise of AWD in performance applications (GTR comes to mind) or Tesla and other electric vehicle that are quiet, smooth, and essentially a single speed transmission.

Like I said, I love older cars and what they represent. We wouldn't have what we do today if not for the 60s musclecars. Would I want to own one today? No, I've been down that road already, I sold a 1969 Boss 302 replica years ago for my house downpayment. Love the memories, but not numb-butt, stiff-neck, sore ears "experience" that some purists seem to revel in.

Here is a great video giving both sides of the story, efficiency vs driving experience in regards to transmissions. There is no need for mudslinging, and I readily say "to each his own."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=lCQYVbfsw-w

[MyBlackBeasts]

Well, yes, some of us DO in fact like to win. Your argument doesn't really hold water in some fronts IMHO.

Do any of us run really hard all season tires (Treadwear rating 480+) just because we love to hear screeching tires? Doesn't that take away sound from the "experience"? This is the exact same reasoning you've used. What's next? "If you don't run bias ply radials like on old musclecars, you lose the experience of tires screeching, gettin squirrelly through the corners and *****ing your pants. That's what a REAL driver in a REAL car does."

Or "Running open exhaust is waaay better because you get more horsepower and it sounds cool. Mufflers are for girlie men."

Who bangs and clangs shifts when not racing?? If I'm doing some spirited driving OR racing, my smile comes from looking in my rear view mirror and seeing who/what's in it and what my capability in the car is.

Who among us hasn't had the VTEC Honda with the huge fart can in traffic? Thinking about said Honda, as well as both your argument and your preferred method/experience of driving, Shakespeare said it best : "It is a tale told...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

I LOVE cruising in restored muscle cars, they have a charm of raw gasoline smell and vinyl seats to slide around while cornering hard. They have amazing character all their own. But to say that "If you don't have carburetors and the uneven lope of racing cams, it's not the full muscle car experience" is pretty silly. Especially when the world has 700+hp daily drivers from many manufacturers that use fuel injection/computers to achieve anything between calm daily driving and solid track competition.

Would you rather be driving a 1970 Marauder? Progress is not the enemy.


That's exactly what I said.


If racing & winning is your thing its the way to go.


I don't do track and street racing (hard) is for fools.


With a M/T, I bang gears all the time - that's the entire purpose of the vehicle - smiles per mile. It's why I have a very high pressure J-mod in my MM, as close to a M/T as you can get with an A/T.



I have the 10sp auto in my F150 and it is an entirely disappointing, horribly engineered piece of ¢r Ap.


Ford should be ashamed for putting such a terrible piece of equipment in their vehicles but then FoMoCo derailed themselves many years ago. A shadow of what the company once was. They are extremely lucky GM & Chrysler took Beelzebub's $$$, otherwise they would be out of business.

[MyBlackBeasts]

The only problem I have with the ten Speed auto is all the Problems that Chevy and Ford are having with it. My friend at my local Ford dealer Loves the new 10 speeds for their lack of reliability, he has so many coming in he's making quite a bit of money on repairs. I think it's a cool swap. But I question the cost and reliability vs a Gear Vendor unit.

one thing I do like about the 10 speed is it has a real overdrive, 3 of them is a bit over kill, but gears 8,9,and 10 are all in the .6 range with 10th being .64. Unlike the 5 & 6 speed autos that very similar OD with the 4 speed auto.


Gear vendor is the way to go, far superior to the 10sp A/T.


The 10sp A/T seems like it was 1/2 way completed in development at someone said "throw in in production vehicles now".


The O/D is nice, the mpg it gives is nice - just a shame it was hal fas sed engineered... :shake:

[Bondfreak13]

I was thinking more of the Cost vs reward involved. The cost of Swapping the 10 speed, vs installing the gear vendor unit.

[Taemian]

Gear vendor is the way to go, far superior to the 10sp A/T.


The 10sp A/T seems like it was 1/2 way completed in development at someone said "throw in in production vehicles now".


The O/D is nice, the mpg it gives is nice - just a shame it was hal fas sed engineered... :shake:

Gotcha. I went to the Gear Vendor site, but didn't see any for our application. Did I miss something, or are they not making them anymore?

[Joe Walsh]

Gear vendor is the way to go, far superior to the 10sp A/T.


The 10sp A/T seems like it was 1/2 way completed in development at someone said "throw in in production vehicles now".


The O/D is nice, the mpg it gives is nice - just a shame it was hal fas sed engineered... :shake:



You must be talking about the 1/2 that Chevy engineered...:D

[Invective]

You must be talking about the 1/2 that Chevy engineered...:D


I don't know about this trans in a Panther but it surely works well in my new 2019 Ranger EcoBoost.

[RocsMerc]

Gear vendor is the way to go, far superior to the 10sp A/T.


Gotcha. I went to the Gear Vendor site, but didn't see any for our application. Did I miss something, or are they not making them anymore?

Same. I was just looking at the Gear Vendors site and it seems they don't support our transmission. Which one fit?
Also, how does it shift in normal driving? Does it drive like an 8 speed auto, or are you manually turning it on and off?

[stevengerard]

I have a new 10 GT with the auto 10 speed. That thing is fantastic. And yes before I purchased a GT convertible I was this close to buying a GT350, now that is a driving experience but at this point in my life the auto makes a lot of sense and its a great trans.

[1Marauder]

I just need one more gear to have tach at 1200 rpm at 75 mph...

[justbob]

I just need one more gear to have tach at 1200 rpm at 75 mph...

My 6th is an overdriven overdrive that hums at around 1,900 at 80 IIRC. It’s almost deafening with drone and has little to no acceleration..

I wish there was a 5.5 gear as 5th is more than fine but feels a bit too high with excessive engine rpm when compared to 6th which is useless till at minimum 90MPH. My trans can push the GT500 that it came from up to 202MPH in stock form. I just wish it was a better highway trans as my 4.10’s feel like the perfect match for any other speed/gear.

I’d be curious on the 10sp capabilities.


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[ChiTownMaraud3r]

I assume nothing came from this, or it is giving them heck of a lot of problems to have never posted an update.

[Invective]

I assume nothing came from this, or it is giving them heck of a lot of problems to have never posted an update.

I'm not finding anything more recent. Wondering if someone has put a very late model Mustang Coyote drivetrain into a Panther/Marauder? Is it even doable without chopping up the car in a major way?

[justbob]

I'm not finding anything more recent. Wondering if someone has put a very late model Mustang Coyote drivetrain into a Panther/Marauder? Is it even doable without chopping up the car in a major way?

https://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-98489.html


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[Invective]

https://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-98489.html


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Thanks for the good read. Still wondering about external dimensions of 10R80 vs the 6R80?