SW headers, N/A cars - dyno tune or nah?

[a_d_a_m]

I'm considering martyo's Black Friday deal on SW headers for the Marauder. Since I'm N/A with a Zack tune and probably will stay that way for a good while, I was going to buy the catted headers with the factory exhaust connection.

I've done some reading on the forums and I'm getting conflicting information, or maybe I'm just getting myself mixed up. Some posts indicate a possibility of a lean condition after the header install, other people say it's fine and the car simply won't be 'maximized' in terms of HP.

Also seeing folks fighting with the EGR - how bad is that?

Talk to me.

[RubberCtyRauder]

I don't think you need a Dyno tune, 2mercs has a SW system and he doesn't have a Dyno tune. You do need a tune as the O2 sensor is further away. Check engine will appear. 2mercs fought with cel for a bit, I think it got straightened out

[itsgreenmoney]

I have a full SW system no Dyno tune. Marty did my install and tune.


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[2mercs]

Marty turned off my rear 02s. Think they installed the wrong ones at stainless works. If you're worried about install they offer that service at a flat rate I'm pretty sure.

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[a_d_a_m]

You do need a tune as the O2 sensor is further away. I'm not sure I understand. If the car already has O2 sensors, and they're in a different location (farther away) that would render the tune I already have obsolete?

(like I said, I'm f'n confused on this, haha)

[03Merc]

Get the Headers and a new file from Marty. I deleted My EGR because the installer cracked it. Causing a rough, hot start.


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[RubberCtyRauder]

I'm not sure I understand. If the car already has O2 sensors, and they're in a different location (farther away) that would render the tune I already have obsolete?

(like I said, I'm f'n confused on this, haha)



yes, pretty much..the O2 sensors are further back and changes the values/parameters. Best to send Marty a pm for better info

[justbob]

Be prepared to buy a new Xcal as I’m assuming the Zack tune is on an Xcal2.

Maybe ask Zack first as he may have already tweaked it for headers.

Plenty of WD40 on the EGR. I’ve yet to break/crack a tube.


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[Joe Walsh]

Be prepared to buy a new Xcal as I’m assuming the Zack tune is on an Xcal2.

Maybe ask Zack first as he may have already tweaked it for headers.

Plenty of WD40 on the EGR. I’ve yet to break/crack a tube.

PB Blaster FTW!

[03Merc]

PB Blaster FTW!



I use Buster! Try it out.


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[a_d_a_m]

yes, pretty much..the O2 sensors are further back and changes the values/parameters. Best to send Marty a pm for better info Makes sense.


Be prepared to buy a new Xcal as I’m assuming the Zack tune is on an Xcal2.

Maybe ask Zack first as he may have already tweaked it for headers. Yeah, it's an old X2, had it since 2009. Don't think it's tweaked for headers...could be wrong.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

[Spectragod]

To spend the coin on LT's and not do a tune, seems counter productive to me, just my 4.6 cents. YMMV

[a_d_a_m]

To spend the coin on LT's and not do a tune, seems counter productive to me, just my 4.6 cents. YMMV I don't have the money to drop on headers AND a tune, especially around this time of year. It's not that it won't happen, just wouldn't happen right away. In the meantime, the sound would be a nice addition...

[Invective]

What motor mods are recommended for a NA car to take full advantage of a complete SW system?

[martyo]

What motor mods are recommended for a NA car to take full advantage of a complete SW system?

No additional mods are needed to take advantage of the system.

[martyo]

I don't have the money to drop on headers AND a tune, especially around this time of year. It's not that it won't happen, just wouldn't happen right away. In the meantime, the sound would be a nice addition...

Call me tomorrow on my cell to discuss.

914-582-6262

[a_d_a_m]

Sounds good.

[crownvic97]

I personally would never run LTs without a tune. A few hundred bucks is much cheaper than a new engine.

[dmjarosz]

Tune tune tune to take advantage of new flow characteristics. At the very least need the primary O2 sensor response time requirements increased to account slower system response due to lower gas temps. I installed "spark plug anti-foulers" (haha) for the secondary O2's to fix the catalyst efficiency CEL. Other than that, Im Eaton swapped so my $0.02 is really only worth like $0.015

[justgod]

"O2 transport delay" needs to be raised in the tune for optimal efficiency. Unless there's something wrong or you're already running on the ragged edge, it isn't mission critical. Talk to Marty, he'll steer you right! :beer:


At the very least need the primary O2 sensor response time requirements increased to account slower system response due to lower gas temps.


No, with LTs, it actually takes longer for the exhaust pulse that left the engine to get to the O2 sensor than in it's original position.. It's a distance thing. You can actually turn the O2 internal heater up if you want also.

[crouse]

I did a bunch of bolt on's and custom exhaust (not headers) and had my Marauder dyno tuned many years ago and it was well worth the money. Real seat of the pants improvement in performance.

[a_d_a_m]

Talked to Marty on the phone today...got some good info and think I may go with the no-cat headers (I am emissions exempt), factory H/muffs/res tips, and mail tune for now.

Just need to make sure my holiday bonus check isn't a 'jelly of the month club' membership before I pull the trigger.

https://dinosaurdracula.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/8.jpg

Based on what I'm reading, a lot of the pros seem to like reusing the factory studs...mine are sorta rusty. Seeing conflicting info - some hating on the SW-supplied bolts, others saying it's fine. Some like the FRPP locking bolts, others hating them. Advice here is appreciated.

Will definitely be using factory gaskets.

[2mercs]

Mine has the supplied bolts installed. Haven't had any backing out issues or anything like that. I also didn't install mine.

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[justbob]

Talked to Marty on the phone today...got some good info and think I may go with the no-cat headers (I am emissions exempt), factory H/muffs/res tips, and mail tune for now.

Just need to make sure my holiday bonus check isn't a 'jelly of the month club' membership before I pull the trigger.

https://dinosaurdracula.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/8.jpg

Based on what I'm reading, a lot of the pros seem to like reusing the factory studs...mine are sorta rusty. Seeing conflicting info - some hating on the SW-supplied bolts, others saying it's fine. Some like the FRPP locking bolts, others hating them. Advice here is appreciated.

Will definitely be using factory gaskets.



I’ve done a few header installs and have had great luck just using new 8mm studs and factory lock nuts. They sell 10 packs for about $12 at all auto part stores, either Dorman or Help brand, that’s all I use. You could also splurge on Stainless studs online, I just didn’t bother because of easy to grab locally. Besides, mine isn’t driven in snow.

You will need to cut a couple down on the passenger side but that’s easy. So far I’ve yet to break an old stud. Been lucky.. When they snap in half it’s normally right at the face of the manifold. Plenty of meat to double nut it and remove. Helpful hint, try to tighten it till it cracks loose, then walk it on out.

And yes, factory gaskets.

On a side note, I went cat less for a year or so and couldn’t take the stank! Tbone tried as well and went back to cats! These engines wreak..


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[a_d_a_m]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, that stank may be something I need to consider.

[crownvic97]

I used these, I highly recommend factory style studs, no reason to get overly fancy here.

https://www.amazon.com/Ford-4-6-5-4-Stainless-Manifold/dp/B000CQ21CM

[Black_Chrome]

If you do snap off the EGR line I'd recommend replacing with this:
https://modd.me/product/flexible-stainless-egr-extension/

Worked like a charm when I put SW headers on my car and is much cheaper/easier to work with compared to the rigid factory one.

[a_d_a_m]

I used these, I highly recommend factory style studs, no reason to get overly fancy here.

https://www.amazon.com/Ford-4-6-5-4-Stainless-Manifold/dp/B000CQ21CM


If you do snap off the EGR line I'd recommend replacing with this:
https://modd.me/product/flexible-stainless-egr-extension/
Noted on both suggestions; thanks!

Unboxed the headers yesterday.

I am not a welder, but the EGR bung weld has me a bit annoyed. This may not be the proper term, but there is 'spatter' on the inside of the pipe (basically just looks like metal got hot and sprayed through open gaps into the inside of the pipe...yeah...like I said I'm not a welder so I don't know what this is called!). I can and will file it down, and it's not going to prevent the install from happening, but for the price, I don't feel like I should have to do basic finish work.

Otherwise they appear to be as good or better quality than the Kooks on my Vic (which doesn't have such spatter inside).

Ordering from Marty was insanely easy, and a pleasant experience. Thank you again, good sir.

[blazen71]

I used these, I highly recommend factory style studs, no reason to get overly fancy here.

https://www.amazon.com/Ford-4-6-5-4-Stainless-Manifold/dp/B000CQ21CM

I used these stud kits as well.

I've also reused the factory gaskets on both my marauders with no leaks. If you're a stickler for new parts, buy new OEM gaskets, they work great.

[a_d_a_m]

I actually installed new OE gaskets about 30k miles ago when I lost compression on 8. I bet they'd be fine. But...cheap as they are, though, I think I'll skip reusing and buy new ones.

[martyo]

Noted on both suggestions; thanks!

Unboxed the headers yesterday.

I am not a welder, but the EGR bung weld has me a bit annoyed. This may not be the proper term, but there is 'spatter' on the inside of the pipe (basically just looks like metal got hot and sprayed through open gaps into the inside of the pipe...yeah...like I said I'm not a welder so I don't know what this is called!). I can and will file it down, and it's not going to prevent the install from happening, but for the price, I don't feel like I should have to do basic finish work.

Otherwise they appear to be as good or better quality than the Kooks on my Vic (which doesn't have such spatter inside).

Ordering from Marty was insanely easy, and a pleasant experience. Thank you again, good sir.

Text me pictures of the “issue.” You have my number.

I think what’s worrying you is not a worry at all, but let’s get a look to be sure.

Thanks.

[a_d_a_m]

Will do - off work tonight between 7:30 and 8.