SPC Camber kit

[Chi Stallion]

I’m having a nightmare getting the car to carfixer alignment specs after I got the camber spc kit installed. My local Firestone tech is telling me the SPC bolts aren’t adjustable to how they want it. The tech said he wants the passenger side bolt to the left which I highlighted. Also he said he wants the driver side bolt on the right. Somebody please help

Passenger side
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190312/6557ce87067a231bddb52309788f2a 13.jpg

Drivers side

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190312/f8588e5cabf25b01995e30c6371cdf 34.jpg

[Mackdombles]

Did you. Or he notch out the aluminum frame to get the extra travel?

[Comin' in Hot]

I’m thinking whoever installed them did not install them properly, they did not not notch the crossmember.

[blazen71]

I agree they prob didn’t clearance the frame holes.

[Chi Stallion]

I’m thinking whoever installed them did not install them properly, they did not not notch the crossmember.



The crossmember is notched is what my mechanic who installed them said. I just have a hard time trusting the local Firestone shop.. My Mechanic said he can adjust it to that angle, just gota bring it back to mechanic shop.

I just don’t know if the Firestone alignment tech actually knows what he’s talking about and if I’m waisting my time getting it adjusted to where he wants it.


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[RubberCtyRauder]

Install video here
https://www.spcalignment.com/index.php?option=com_spc&task=part_description&pid=87365

[1Marauder]

Print the directions... And have them watch the video. You (or they) will need the notching tool (basically a shaped drill bit/file) that SBC and others sell.

If you (or they) have never done this... It seems a little different /odd at first, but once you do it it makes perfect sense.

+4 above it seems they didn't notch the existing hole... And the camber bolt cannot travel/adjust.

[justbob]

All they have to do to get the big picture is remove the nut. Then they’ll see the notch and try harder..


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[Blackmobile]

If the notch is not long enough the cam will not turn 360 degrees, So if they can't get to the needed setting in one direction, then try the other direction. Either that or have the notch enlarged to allow the 360 degree turn.

[Chi Stallion]

I believe the Firestone tech didn’t know what he was talking about when he was adjusting the camber because it seems like he didn’t loose the bolt in the back. Then he started bashing the kit saying it was cheap and it wouldn’t turn etc. He mentioned the passenger side camber adjustment isnt where he wants it to be. Also he scratched the hell out my passenger side cam washer.

So I brought it back to my installer and he got the passenger camber adjustment to where the Firestone tech said he wanted it. Instead of going back to that shady Firestone, I took it to Just Tires and gave them the car fixer specs. Here’s the specs I got after the alignment. When I left the Just Tires shop the alignment was even more off then when I brought it in, with the steering wheel all the way to the right while the wheels are center.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/633c6cf1f9efa82733ac018dd7bd25 f7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/da5e4f48cc405bbe6c56cc0429e10d f4.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/a74ae272bfd48ec6f1c9f9132f76b3 bd.jpg


Called my mechanic and showed him the specs I got and he said bring the car in Friday. So what he plans on doing is drilling more into the passenger low control arm bushing with the SPC 85137. He said he wants to get the “toe” more even. So will have to take it back for another alignment.



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[88LTDCV351]

My Marauder has a lot of front tire inner wear. Just had some new tires put on and want an alignment. I've asked for carfixer specs before (used to have the specs from MM.net somewhere, can someone please provide them?), but I think I drove away with regular specs. Anyway, last time I was there, they said I needed flaps or whatever its called removed to make further adjustment. What are those things called and please provide me the carfixer specs again. Thanks!

[cheapthrillb2]

They call them flags.

[MCAT]

Courtesy of Carfixer

The inside edge wear of the front tires is caused by 2 things: negative camber and negative toe (toe out). Caster is not a tire wearing angle. The outside edge wear can be caused by excessive toe in and aggressive cornering.

Factory camber spec is -.5 degrees or- .75 degrees
Factory toe spec is -.15 degrees or- .20 degrees
(BTW, this info came from their website which is updated periodically and may differ from previously published material, such as cd's and paper manuals)

That means your alignment could have -1.25 degrees of camber and toe out of -.35 degrees and still be in the green. This will wipe out the inside edges in 20K miles IMO.

All of the MM's I've aligned (about 10) had at least -1.0 degrees of camber and always toe out of -.10 degrees or more from the factory. That's why almost all MM's you see have excessive inside edge tire wear.

For best tire wear, here is what I use on all MM alignments:
Camber: 0 to -.3 degrees.*
Toe: Zero degrees.
Caster: 5-6.5 degrees positive with .3 degree lead on the right side.

*Camber can affect cornering feel. The more negative camber you have, the better it will handle corners. Most drivers will never feel the difference, especially on the street.

[fastblackmerc]

They call them flags.

They come off with a hammer and chisel. About 30 seconds per side.

[cheapthrillb2]

They come off with a hammer and chisel. About 30 seconds per side.

I'm well aware. He was asking the name. I provided it. I work in a shop that averages 15-20 alignments a day. I've installed more then my fair share.

[fastblackmerc]

I'm well aware. He was asking the name. I provided it. I work in a shop that averages 15-20 alignments a day. I've installed more then my fair share.

:2thumbs: :2thumbs:

[Chi Stallion]

Update

The alignment Firestone tech f’d the hell out both my spc bolts. Looks like he never loosened the nut in the back when he tried adjusting the bolts and seemed like he tried adjusting it from the front washer cause the passenger camber washer is scratched pretty bad and looks bent. Also the thread is messed up on both bolts so looks like ima have to order new spc bolts and pay my mechanic to do the install again. Put the stock bolts back in and the steering wheel is way more centered for now..

Passenger side camber

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/e3e6ef8c9addd807ea998450c1ab22 3b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/533cc8847f8c9474894654c48c2633 a0.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/387705ab3508cac2ce90fbfb4775b2 ec.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/1d320726f3f2aabfb999a51a55893e 97.jpg

Drivers side

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/ce8be153434b70dab8561ae43eb291 97.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190316/6d5feafd08dfea2f45f9c5c4fceca3 8b.jpg



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[RubberCtyRauder]

Getting them from Christ at adtr.net, his come with spider washers that grip into a arm as these have been known to move

[Chi Stallion]

Getting them from Christ at adtr.net, his come with spider washers that grip into a arm as these have been known to move



Just ordered the bolts from adtr.net website hopefully they get here quick[emoji847]

Another update I called the Firestone hotline and complained about what kind of a bad service they did and the alignment tech damaging my bolts and the labor I paid my mechanic to install them. They settled me out and paid me 250 which is for the spc bolts they damaged and the labor I paid my mechanic.

Moral of the story is don’t trust the idiots at Firestone cause they will try to cover up and lie.


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[cheapthrillb2]

It's not "Firestone" it's that tech. I'm sure of the hundreds of Firestone locations, some locations are bound to have decent techs.

I work for a shop that has over 120 locations. Each location is only as good or bad as the guys in that location. I know my company has some seriously bad locations. But we also have some really talented guys in other locations.


My advice, have a conversation directly with the tech and vet them on their knowledge of what you want done. Don't feel comfortable with them, move along and find another spot.

[Chi Stallion]

It's not "Firestone" it's that tech. I'm sure of the hundreds of Firestone locations, some locations are bound to have decent techs.

I work for a shop that has over 120 locations. Each location is only as good or bad as the guys in that location. I know my company has some seriously bad locations. But we also have some really talented guys in other locations.


My advice, have a conversation directly with the tech and vet them on their knowledge of what you want done. Don't feel comfortable with them, move along and find another spot.



Well they did say you can’t come back to this Firestone location anymore I said, “that’s fine”. [emoji106]

No matter what, they still can’t cancel my Lifetime Alignment Warranty either. So I can still go to any Firestone location I want, but at this point I don’t want to deal with no more headaches and shady techs that try to spin customers and lie.

The alignment tech tried to cover up his mess saying he did loosen the nut in the back (which was a lie clearly) and he’s been doing alignment for 27 years. I interrupted that clown and told him, “no you didnt” and he said I’m not explaining this anymore and walked back to the bay. Only if that idiot knew he was dealing with a Wilson Fisk Kingpin like me. It was a cold T.K.O. knockout [emoji3037]

I also have a video too that I recorded when the car was on the lift and you can clearly see the passenger side cam washer was scratched while the alignment tech was tryna explain where he wants the adjustment. I think that’s what sealed the deal to get that Firestone service manager to settle me out cause I clearly have the proof in the video that it was damaged at their shop.




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[musclemerc]

So much wrong with this thread......

[Chi Stallion]

So much wrong with this thread......



Care to explain what I did wrong ?


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[Agent2006]

Hey Chi: sorry to read about this, next shop definitely explain exactly what you want and what happened before,I'd print out your bolt pics.

I'd stay away from any generalized negative Firestone comments if you are going to a Firestone store...main thing is ---this will be fixed at another shop and you will be cruising down the road. Nothing to gain by reliving this experience. Good luck, and Marauder on!

[Chi Stallion]

Hey Chi: sorry to read about this, next shop definitely explain exactly what you want and what happened before,I'd print out your bolt pics.

I'd stay away from any generalized negative Firestone comments if you are going to a Firestone store...main thing is ---this will be fixed at another shop and you will be cruising down the road. Nothing to gain by reliving this experience. Good luck, and Marauder on!



Thank you I appreciate that. I moved on and learned the hard way.


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[cheapthrillb2]

Care to explain what I did wrong ?


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The way I understand your posts...

You bought the kits.

You paid a tech to install them. Said tech didn't clearance the frame per the instructions. And he simply installed the kits.

You took the car then to get an alignment elsewhere. Said alignment tech seemed to try pretty damn hard to adjust your kits to the specs you wanted. But because the first tech who installed them didn't clearance the frame, the alignment tech couldn't get the needed rotation from the cams. This is where your kit damage most likely occurred. The bolts are damaged because the alignment tech was trying to force their rotation but the cams themselves wouldn't rotate. So the bolts started to egg the holes in the cams.

So you brought back to the guy who didn't complete the job the first time, he completed the job.

You brought it to a different shop who did get it adjusted. But gave you a pretty **** alignment if at the very least your steering wheel isn't remotely close to straight.


But it's all Firestone fault.


Atleast that's how I interpret your posts anyway.


I strongly suggest he doesn't grind into the control arm bushing itself.

[Chi Stallion]

The way I understand your posts...

You bought the kits.

You paid a tech to install them. Said tech didn't clearance the frame per the instructions. And he simply installed the kits.

You took the car then to get an alignment elsewhere. Said alignment tech seemed to try pretty damn hard to adjust your kits to the specs you wanted. But because the first tech who installed them didn't clearance the frame, the alignment tech couldn't get the needed rotation from the cams. This is where your kit damage most likely occurred. The bolts are damaged because the alignment tech was trying to force their rotation but the cams themselves wouldn't rotate. So the bolts started to egg the holes in the cams.

So you brought back to the guy who didn't complete the job the first time, he completed the job.

You brought it to a different shop who did get it adjusted. But gave you a pretty **** alignment if at the very least your steering wheel isn't remotely close to straight.


But it's all Firestone fault.


Atleast that's how I interpret your posts anyway.


I strongly suggest he doesn't grind into the control arm bushing itself.


I made a mistake when I said he wants to drill more in the control arm bushing in my 3rd post #10. That was my fault and I misheard what my mechanic had explained. It was the frame crossmember he had mentioned. I will mention that to him again about the clearance in the frame hole. He watched the video and said he did everything right just like the video. So I will make it clear to him again.


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[MyBlackBeasts]

Update

The alignment Firestone tech f’d the hell out both my spc bolts. Looks like he never loosened the nut in the back when he tried adjusting the bolts and seemed like he tried adjusting it from the front washer cause the passenger camber washer is scratched pretty bad and looks bent. Also the thread is messed up on both bolts so looks like ima have to order new spc bolts and pay my mechanic to do the install again. Put the stock bolts back in and the steering wheel is way more centered for now..


Take the bolts to the store manager, they owe you new ones. The store is responsible for what their techs do. What a hack.

[Chi Stallion]

Take the bolts to the store manager, they owe you new ones. The store is responsible for what their techs do. What a hack.



They already paid me 99.07 is what I paid for the bolt kit and 150 for my mechanic labor fee’s so they gave me back a total of 249


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[justbob]

Firestone’s have been hit or miss for me over the years. I finally found one in Wheaton (danada area) that did a SUPERB job on my truck and my car both. He wasn’t real happy with either as they both received all new steering and suspension everything prior to coming in and even though I counted the threads and reinstalled the same amount of turns, the world isn’t a perfect place and man was the alignments jacked!

He was just rubbing me though, super cool older guy that really took his time on them and dialed both to perfection. I’ve never had an alignment so dead on before in just one visit..


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[a_d_a_m]

The way I understand your posts...

You bought the kits.

You paid a tech to install them. Said tech didn't clearance the frame per the instructions. And he simply installed the kits.

You took the car then to get an alignment elsewhere. Said alignment tech seemed to try pretty damn hard to adjust your kits to the specs you wanted. But because the first tech who installed them didn't clearance the frame, the alignment tech couldn't get the needed rotation from the cams. This is where your kit damage most likely occurred. The bolts are damaged because the alignment tech was trying to force their rotation but the cams themselves wouldn't rotate. So the bolts started to egg the holes in the cams.

So you brought back to the guy who didn't complete the job the first time, he completed the job.

You brought it to a different shop who did get it adjusted. But gave you a pretty **** alignment if at the very least your steering wheel isn't remotely close to straight.


But it's all Firestone fault.


Atleast that's how I interpret your posts anyway. That's how I read it, too. And for what it's worth, my local Firestone dealer has a stellar reputation.

[musclemerc]

Care to explain what I did wrong ?


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You went to an in/out shop for custom work.
My only advise is spend the refund money on a set of tools and learn how to do simple work yourself.
Take ownership of the outcome so you can't fault anyone else.

[88LTDCV351]

Courtesy of Carfixer

The inside edge wear of the front tires is caused by 2 things: negative camber and negative toe (toe out). Caster is not a tire wearing angle. The outside edge wear can be caused by excessive toe in and aggressive cornering.

Factory camber spec is -.5 degrees or- .75 degrees
Factory toe spec is -.15 degrees or- .20 degrees
(BTW, this info came from their website which is updated periodically and may differ from previously published material, such as cd's and paper manuals)

That means your alignment could have -1.25 degrees of camber and toe out of -.35 degrees and still be in the green. This will wipe out the inside edges in 20K miles IMO.

All of the MM's I've aligned (about 10) had at least -1.0 degrees of camber and always toe out of -.10 degrees or more from the factory. That's why almost all MM's you see have excessive inside edge tire wear.

For best tire wear, here is what I use on all MM alignments:
Camber: 0 to -.3 degrees.*
Toe: Zero degrees.
Caster: 5-6.5 degrees positive with .3 degree lead on the right side.

*Camber can affect cornering feel. The more negative camber you have, the better it will handle corners. Most drivers will never feel the difference, especially on the street.

So I went to get my alignment done and gave them these specs. They said they know all about the removal of the flags etc. But here is what I got.

[88LTDCV351]

Did I get the carfixer specs? I see a number of "maxed out" remarks on the sheet.

[cheapthrillb2]

Did I get the carfixer specs? I see a number of "maxed out" remarks on the sheet.

Fairly close.

[88LTDCV351]

I was at the stealership and they said I need a new steering gear because it was worn. Would this mess up my alignment in the front? Should I tell them to realign to carfixer specs after installing the steering gear?

[cheapthrillb2]

Replacing the rack will change the toe. Yes you will need an alignment afterwards.

[Chi Stallion]

Update

Got the new bolts from Chris at Adtr.net and wow did they get here at quick.

Brought the bolts to my same mechanic that installed them. Installed them less than an hour.

Took it to Just Tires and I’m happy with the specs I got. Ready to celebrate tonight with a big fat Cigar and a cold bottle of Don Julio 1942.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190323/b84aaad0ea49eca48cf60f22fe36fc 7b.jpg


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[musclemerc]

I hope it's a Maduro.....