Autolamps are possessed! Any Clues to Fix?

[djcwardog]

Title almost says it all... I took a nice road trip over the weekend (driving in the middle of the day in nice weather - minimal cloud cover overhead) and I noticed a loud clicking noise accompanied by the dash lights going on and off in sync with the clicking. As I was behind other cars I began to pay attention to their bumpers to see if my headlights were also coming on - they were as well. All this with my light switch in the "autolamp" position. I switched one click right over to "off", yet the clicking and flashing headlights continued. I figured that people thought I was being rude and flashing to pass even from the right lane, so I just rolled the switch on over to "On." No more flashing or clicking, but the lights were on constantly. Any clues on solving this issue? I searched posts and saw several similar complaints but no answer. Replace a sensor, the switch, pull fuse for autolamps, what?

Thanks!

[Black Terror]

This is normal warranty work if still in warranty. Lots of things can cause this but it is most likely the lighting module. Other members have had same problem with module being the culprit.
If not in warranty, could get pretty expensive.

[jgc61sr2002]

DJ - Your Marauder is still under warranty. :up: Bring it to the dealer. :)

[RoyLPita]

Might be a bad multifunction switch. The high beams and "flash to pass" are on the stalk. Dealer might charge 1-2 hours plus parts.

Just my .02 and then some.

[Marauderman]

This is all normal ..the light switch is set to do as it did cause it is in that position-- far left....the red flicklering light on the dash on the left side..well, that sees whether there is sufficent "light" and if not then it lights up the headlights....there is a timer on them so it takes a few moments before they go off after they have been given sufficent light to satisfy their light needs and then they turn off your headlights......put the switch in the normal off positioon to begin with --no lights till you turn them on yourself----the other way the light will come on automatically without you having to remember if it is dark enough or not.... Tom.....

[djcwardog]

Guys,

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I was leaning towards the "it's all normal" approach until I went out to the MM after work yesterday and considered what you all had written for me. Of course, my car is no longer under warranty so any fixes are at my expense. I do have the factory manuals from Helm, so I may dig in there a bit once I get a better feeling for what to check. Anyway, here are more "test" results: Lights were possessed as I drove home yesterday after work, not yet dark. Once home I turned lights from autolamp to parking and back to off and I heard clicks as the switch hit each position - supposed to turn off the autolamp feature. Then went for a drive well after dark - having left the lights in the off position. Get this - even though the switch was absolutely in the off position, the lights turned on when I started the car! I rolled the switch to on, to off, to autolamp. Lights stayed on. I then put them on autolamp and drove. They never clicked or otherwise acted possessed, they just stayed lit while I was driving after dark. Turn signals and high beam have always worked properly. In other words, they functioned properly in the autolamp setting after dark. This morning I started the car with lights off. No lights came on when I started the car. I drove about 10 feet and they clicked on (possessed again). I stopped and went through the same drill. However, with the lights still on (from Possession!) as I rolled the switch, I heard no clicks as it hit each position. Very strange! Any more thoughts for me? I am pretty good at fixing car issues if I can get some help in isolating the problem. Has somebody else had this issue and fixed it?

Thanks!

[MERCMAN]

Is your car named Christine? Call Steven King!!:lol: :lol:

[hitchhiker]

Is your car named Christine? Call Steven King!!:lol: :lol:

Place a large hammer in the passenger seat next to you.

The car will then behave correctly! :lol:

Seriously, have the light module checked or ask the dealer to run an inquiry
on headlights.

Best Regards,

David

[CRUZTAKER]

Judging his milage in excess of 70k....his warranty is DONE!

I also remember some members with this 'flicker' issue having the dealer find a bad ground in the dash cluster somewhere. There may even be a TSB at this point.

I don't use my autolamps, so I may have the same issue and not know it. I do however get the occational dash flicker....I just ignore it and :rolleyes:

[RoyLPita]

Maybe it is the headlight knob/switch. Is the headlight knob loose?

[rakkar]

I am experiencing the same issue. I found a TSB on the issue (Service bulletin number: 16698, Mar 2003). I am taking mine to the dealer on Thursday, will let you know how it turns out. My understanding is that it is the lighting control module.

[Sactown]

I had a problem with electrical in general but it was from a loose harness under the hood. Flickering lights, engine stall, etc.

[BruteForce]

Not precisely on-topic but I had a problem with intermittent failure of the left turn signals. Turned out to be a pinched wire in the taillight assembly.

[djcwardog]

Maybe it is the headlight knob/switch. Is the headlight knob loose?
RoyLPita,

I wonder if you (or anyone reading) have access to good-guy prices on Ford/LM parts? I pulled out my thick workshop manual and read up on the diagnostics involved in troubleshooting this issue. Page 419-10-15 gets into how to diagnose the LCM - lighting control module. My simple OBD II code puller did not retrieve any trouble codes, but I bet it won't pull codes from the LCM. Page 417-01-11 gets into detailed diagnosis of the autolamp system. I plan to use my multimeter and make some of the tests. It will boil down to bad LCM (likely), bad sensor on the dash (possible), or a bad light switch (seems unlikely as it is tight and seems to work OK in turning on the fog lights). Can you get me part numbers and prices (list and discount) on all three parts? I may end up ordering from you (if possible) at discount or just buying at local dealer if no discounts are possible. Would a Ford dealer get the parts for me? Ford is right up the street and LM is miles away... I certainly appreciate the help! This morning I noticed the lights blinking even with the light switch in the off position. However they shut off as soon as I turned off the ignition. I would sure hate to drive at night and have the lights quit on me! Is this likely to happen?

Rakkar - I eagerly await your report of what the dealer checked, found and replaced! Could you be sure to ask for details when you drop and pick up your car?

Thanks!

[Black Terror]

Once you determine what part is needed, Ray, The Dealer, (1-800-219-6411) will give you the best price and quickest shipping.

[marauder307]

DJC---call Billy Klein at South County Sinclair L-M. They're just a couple of miles from South County Sinclair Ford, there on Lindbergh. Billy's the service writer who takes care of me and mine; tell 'im I sent ya. Explain your problem, and they can hook you up. Phone no.'s 314-729-2700. I'm going in for a buncha work myself on Friday; prolly be there about mid-morning, roughly 9 or 10.

Gotta get fronts balanced, TSB for rack/pinion yoke lock ring serviced, oil changed, and engine tick diagnosed....gonna be a long day.

[roadpig58]

ford has a program for loyal service customers who have their maintainence
work done at the dealership- not just warranty- if you`ve been a loyal maintainence customer- the dealer can get ford to do an after warrranty adjustment for you if you havent had more than 1 yet- ford will pay up to
80% of the repair- roadpig

[jgc61sr2002]

roadpig58 - Welcome to the MM site. :up:

[roadpig58]

thanks for the welcome- the mm is a great car- love mine!

[Jeff]

Is your car named Christine? Call Steven King!!:lol: :lol:


Mine is. :help:

[LNYTUNS]

If I have my autolamp on and pull into my garage the lights turn on. If I flip the switch to off the lights stay on, until I shut the car off. Seems normal to me.

[David Morton]

Check your grounds. My guess would be G200 (possibly G100). Just go ahead and act as if it is bad and repair it. Sometimes they look good and aren't. I hope you have all of the factory service manuals. There is a wiring manual that has diagnosis trees, diagrams and locations for every electrical part right down to the splices.

I couldn't tell you how many times I have seen a customer pay for an expensive module that took days to install when the culprit was a bad ground that it took days for the mechanic to find.

'Possessed' is a common description from owners when the problem is a bad ground. My guess is 99% you have a bad ground. 9% inside the module, 90% in the chassis wiring.

[djcwardog]

Check your grounds. My guess would be G200 (possibly G100). Just go ahead and act as if it is bad and repair it. Sometimes they look good and aren't. I hope you have all of the factory service manuals. There is a wiring manual that has diagnosis trees, diagrams and locations for every electrical part right down to the splices.

I couldn't tell you how many times I have seen a customer pay for an expensive module that took days to install when the culprit was a bad ground that it took days for the mechanic to find.

'Possessed' is a common description from owners when the problem is a bad ground. My guess is 99% you have a bad ground. 9% inside the module, 90% in the chassis wiring.
David,

I do have both manuals that Helm offered for my car - almost $200 worth! I'll check both of those ground sites and repair them. Maybe that will solve it! I'll inform the forum when I check that out. Thanks!

M307,

I got your PM, but I am out of town this weekend, so I will miss the rally. Maybe another one? Thanks for your feedback as well. I'll make note of Sinclair's number.

[RF Overlord]

The NHTSA has a listing for "ERRATIC HEADLAMP OPERATION IN AUTOLAMP MODE" under service bulletin #16698, as rakkar said...so any dealer should be able to pull that and at least use it as a starting point...

[David Morton]

The NHTSA has a listing for "ERRATIC HEADLAMP OPERATION IN AUTOLAMP MODE" under service bulletin #16698, as rakkar said...so any dealer should be able to pull that and at least use it as a starting point...If the NHTSA is sounding off on this and it is the module (which is a possibility) there's a chance there will be a recall of the module, unless FMC can prove it rarely fails at night. And if it is the ground or the module w/no recall, they will probably order the dealerships to do a 'policy' repair, FOC. I doubt there will be a recall, but if there is, everybody will be getting a letter soon.

[djcwardog]

The NHTSA has a listing for "ERRATIC HEADLAMP OPERATION IN AUTOLAMP MODE" under service bulletin #16698, as rakkar said...so any dealer should be able to pull that and at least use it as a starting point...
Guys,

Today I will examine the grounds in the car with the help of my very helpful wiring manual. I have read the list of ground connections and seen the drawings of where they all are. I posted awhile back about how my car was one of those where they failed to ground the subwoofer wire! Perhaps I'll find another wire up front (especially kick panels left and right - one each place...) that is not grounded and should be. There are not many ground wires on the entire car. Amazing! Even more amazing - the possession has been gone for 3 days with no repair work on my part! The smarter I get on the car's systems, the less it acts up...? The autolamps worked perfectly on my road trip over the last two days. No random clicking, etc... Would this fact mitigate against finding a bad ground - or enhance that chance? Does anyone have the text of TSB #16698 so I can see if it is worth a trip to the dealer? It would be my money at stake if I don't solve this myself.

Thanks!

[djcwardog]

Guys,

As I wrote earlier... Today I will examine the grounds in the car with the help of my very helpful wiring manual. I have read the list of ground connections and seen the drawings of where they all are....

Update - I went out to the car and used page 152-19 of my wiring manual to inspect each and every one of the 14 grounds that exist on a 2003 MM. Most of the underhood grounds (G100, 101, 102, and 103) appeared to be properly connected. However, G106 was hard to locate. I finally saw a piece of woven metal (silver in color) strapping that connected from the firewall to the back of the engine about where the picture on page 151-10 said it should be. That strap was properly fastened to the back of the engine block by a bolt - just above the bellhousing. Did I find G106 or should I look for something else? I could not find any loose connectors hanging in the air back there... The G400-series of grounds (all those in the back of the car) also were checked when I did the subwoofer fix, so I was not too worried about them. I did give them a quick look anyway. When I got to the G200, 201, 202, and 204 grounds (those which go into the body behind the kick panels) I saw that all were connected. For G200 and 201 you will find three bolts in a vertical array behind the right kick panel for a total of four ground connectors. However, I followed good advice on these forum pages and pulled each bolt to see if the paint was cleaned off behind the terminals. On just about all of them (G204 looked almost acceptable) I found black paint behind each connector. The factory had not prepped the metal surface for the ground connectors. I went ahead and sc***** the paint off all of them so that the terminal would be fastened to the bare metal of the car body. Have I missed something as far as making a "repair" to the grounds as you all have advised me? I will now monitor the autolamps and see if the gremlins come back... I wonder if this will also fix the issue where the radio and clock display occasionally flicker (dim to bright and back ...)? I found a Ford Parts Direct website that offers the Lighting Control Module (same for 2003 and 2004 cars, they say) for ~$275. If needed after all, is that a good deal? List price appears to be ~$340.

:rock:

Thanks!

[David Morton]

Update - I went out to the car and used page 152-19 of my wiring manual to inspect each and every one of the 14 grounds that exist on a 2003 MM. Most of the underhood grounds (G100, 101, 102, and 103) appeared to be properly connected. However, G106 was hard to locate. I finally saw a piece of woven metal (silver in color) strapping that connected from the firewall to the back of the engine about where the picture on page 151-10 said it should be. That strap was properly fastened to the back of the engine block by a bolt - just above the bellhousing. Did I find G106 or should I look for something else? I could not find any loose connectors hanging in the air back there... The G400-series of grounds (all those in the back of the car) also were checked when I did the subwoofer fix, so I was not too worried about them. I did give them a quick look anyway. When I got to the G200, 201, 202, and 204 grounds (those which go into the body behind the kick panels) I saw that all were connected. For G200 and 201 you will find three bolts in a vertical array behind the right kick panel for a total of four ground connectors. However, I followed good advice on these forum pages and pulled each bolt to see if the paint was cleaned off behind the terminals. On just about all of them (G204 looked almost acceptable) I found black paint behind each connector. The factory had not prepped the metal surface for the ground connectors. I went ahead and sc***** the paint off all of them so that the terminal would be fastened to the bare metal of the car body. Have I missed something as far as making a "repair" to the grounds as you all have advised me? I will now monitor the autolamps and see if the gremlins come back... I wonder if this will also fix the issue where the radio and clock display occasionally flicker (dim to bright and back ...)? I found a Ford Parts Direct website that offers the Lighting Control Module (same for 2003 and 2004 cars, they say) for ~$275. If needed after all, is that a good deal? List price appears to be ~$340.

:rock:

Thanks!I've never seen any factory properly prep the suface for grounding, your experience is typical. Mostly, bolt threads to sheet metal interference is enough to scrape off the paint and get ground but this is always the weak link. Once I found a bad G100 next to the battery of an Astro van and the bolt was 1/4" loose, cross threaded from the factory and the eyelet was just hanging on it! And it had 60,000 miles with no previous problems! This was the complaint: "Transmission n/overhaul, Radio intermittent". Boy was the service writer pissed when I fixed the thing for 1 1/2 hrs. labor, no parts! I overcharged the guy but saved his business $1500 in doing so.

Your repairs are good and if this was the cause, you probably got it. Next time, use the wiring charts to trace the specific ground the circuit uses. Then you will be able to examine the ground before you work on it, check to see if the bolt is loose, if there's any corrosion, etc. It's probably G200, the one next to the passengers right ankle behind the kick panel, which is the ground for most of the stuff inside the passenger compartment. If you didn't get it, try to make a dedicated ground (a wire with an alligator clip on one end and a probe to go into the connector for the module), just on the module itself, while it's acting up. Then, if the dedicated ground wire fixes it you could look for a cut wire or bad splice, inside the harness, and repair it like that, or just solder a dedicated ground into the module wiring at the connector.

I remember a 'Far Side' where a bunch of cavemen were burning their hands holding the meat in the fire while Zog had his own fire away from the others and had his meat on a stick and was looking over at the others with a secretive glance. One of the dumb ones had noticed and said to the other, "Hey, look what Zog do!"

I'm not Zog. I'm the one saying...

...Hey, look what Zog do! :lol:

[rakkar]

I took mine to the dealer and gave them the recall number. They replaced the lighting module at no cost to me (still under warrantee). It works fine now.

[RAUDER]

In the off position, my headlights come on when I turn my wipers on???? The dealer said this is normal.

[David Morton]

In the off position, my headlights come on when I turn my wipers on???? The dealer said this is normal.Yes this is a feature that's nice in states that have laws that require headlights to be on if it's raining in the daytime, like Florida.

[RAUDER]

Yes this is a feature that's nice in states that have laws that require headlights to be on if it's raining in the daytime, like Florida.


I guess that includes Texas.

thanks

[David Morton]

I guess that includes Texas.

thanksAs far as I know it includes every 2004 Marauder, perhaps all of the GM's too.

[djcwardog]

I took mine to the dealer and gave them the recall number. They replaced the lighting module at no cost to me (still under warrantee). It works fine now.

Rakkar,

There is a recall (as opposed to a TSB) out for the LCM? If so, I wonder if my out-of-warranty car would get the fix for free? So far, the problem has abated since I cleaned up the grounds, so maybe I got it. However, a free LCM would be good for piece of mind down the road...

Thanks!

[David Morton]

Rakkar,

There is a recall (as opposed to a TSB) out for the LCM? If so, I wonder if my out-of-warranty car would get the fix for free? So far, the problem has abated since I cleaned up the grounds, so maybe I got it. However, a free LCM would be good for piece of mind down the road...

Thanks!If it is a "recall", everybody it applies to will get a letter telling them to bring their car in for a free module, if that's what it is, up to 100,000 miles. Rakkar must be talking about a TSB.

At any rate, wait until you have a problem. If you have already fixed it with the ground repair, chances are pretty poor the service manager is going to give you a free module just to ease your mind.

[djcwardog]

If it is a "recall", everybody it applies to will get a letter telling them to bring their car in for a free module, if that's what it is, up to 100,000 miles. Rakkar must be talking about a TSB.

At any rate, wait until you have a problem. If you have already fixed it with the ground repair, chances are pretty poor the service manager is going to give you a free module just to ease your mind.
Will do! I certainly appreciate all the advice and know-how shared with me on this issue. So far so good - no recurrence of autolamp possession. Maybe the ground repair did it...

Thanks!

[djcwardog]

In the off position, my headlights come on when I turn my wipers on???? The dealer said this is normal.

Rauder,

I believe that is normal - what the factory intends. Keeps you in compliance with laws in states that require you to be running headlights when your wqipers are on. The MM has a several second delay after you switch on the wipers before it turns on the lights...

[jgc61sr2002]

Yes this is a feature that's nice in states that have laws that require headlights to be on if it's raining in the daytime, like Florida.


Yes that is correct. New York also has that law. " Wipers On Lights On".

[dansenander]

Here is a list of TSB's for our cars. Some of you have metioned these proplems and I think you will find the anwsers here.
-----------------------------

Make : MERCURY Marauder 2003
<st1:date w:st="[/img]JUN" st1:date 2003< 01,>

ANTI-LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) LIGHT ON WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) C1222 (SPEED WHEEL MISMATCH).
Service Bulletin Num : 16906
Date of Bulletin: <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="6" ls="trans">JUN 01, 2003</st1:date><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[img] /><o:p></o:p>


<o:p></o:p></P>

</P>

</P>

MOISTURE IN THE HEADLAMPS. </P>

Service Bulletin Num : 16698</P>

Date of Bulletin: <st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="3" ls="trans">MAR 01, 2003</st1:date></P>

<st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="3" ls="trans"></st1:date> </P>

ERRATIC HEADLAMP OPERATION IN AUTOLAMP MODE. </P>

Service Bulletin Num : 16712</P>

Date of Bulletin: <st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="3" ls="trans">MAR 01, 2003</st1:date></P>

<st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="3" ls="trans"></st1:date> </P>

FUEL GAUGE THAT COMES OFF FULL TOO QUICKLY OR READS LOWER THAN THE ACTUAL FUEL TANK LEVEL (ELECTRONIC OR ANALOG CLUSTER).</P>

Service Bulletin Num : 16639</P>

Date of Bulletin: <st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="2" ls="trans">FEB 01, 2003</st1:date></P>

<st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="2" ls="trans"></st1:date> </P>

FUEL GAUGE READING THAT FLUCTUATES OR READS LOWER THAN THE ACTUAL FUEL TANK LEVEL. </P>

Service Bulletin Num : 16663</P>

Date of Bulletin: <st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="2" ls="trans">FEB 01, 2003</st1:date></P>

<st1:date w:st="on" Year="2003" Day="01" Month="2" ls="trans"></st1:date> </P>

<o:p></o:p></P>POWER STEERING LOWER ASSIST AT LOW SPEEDS / STEERING LIGHT FEEL AT HIGHER SPEEDS.

</P></st1:date>

[tbore007]

just had my headlight module replaced, lights flicked on and off..now my wipers are acting up...fun fun

[cyled]

I have had this same problem. I have only notice it on hot days above 85 degrees. It is been pretty mild this summer in Nothern Indiana. The past week or so it has stayed in the 70's and I have not had the problem. It is strange that even in the OFF position the lights keep turning off and on during the middle of the day. People coming towards me think I am flashing them.

[STLThunder]

Is your car named Christine? Call Steven King!!:lol: :lol:

Be afraid, veryyyyyyyyyyy afraid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: