Current options for new rack and pinion?

[cashmonkey38]

My rack and pinion has a slow leak - have most of car torn apart so wanting to fix everything I possibly can now. I've read some old threads and fairly certain correct pn is 3W1Z-3504-GARM

Problem is it appears to be discontinued - per ford parts giant and per local dealership I talked to today - can keep looking but has anyone had to do this recently and know of any options?

I bought the seal kit with other parts I was ordering, but realized I have no idea how to take the thing apart and can't find a ton of info on how to do so. Also a new part would be one less thing to worry about... any ideas? Or somewhere I could get my current one reworked? Thanks

[03Merc]

I got mine from Advance Auto. Rebuilt with warranty. Hard (expensive) to get a NEW one...they are all usually rebuilt. Painted black.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[cashmonkey38]

I got mine from Advance Auto. Rebuilt with warranty. Hard (expensive) to get a NEW one...they are all usually rebuilt. Painted black.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Gotcha - you got yours rebuilt there? Or they had a rebuilt one available? My old ones fine other than a slow leak inside one of the boots

[dmjarosz]

I'm going to continue this thread unfortunately. I originally diagnosed as a bad left inner tie rod but upon further inspection after removing the boot I found that the rack shaft (correct term?) is quite loose inside the housing! Like a lot loose, probably 1/16" radial play. Im not sure its even able to be rebuilt at this point. Remanufactured ones seem to be quite expensive and Im very mechanically inclined so I wouldnt mind tackling a rebuild myself, IF i can get the parts.

Anyone have any info for me to work with? Are there rebuild kits available? Are the reman ones actually the correct fitment?

[MyBlackBeasts]

I'm going to continue this thread unfortunately. I originally diagnosed as a bad left inner tie rod but upon further inspection after removing the boot I found that the rack shaft (correct term?) is quite loose inside the housing! Like a lot loose, probably 1/16" radial play. Im not sure its even able to be rebuilt at this point. Remanufactured ones seem to be quite expensive and Im very mechanically inclined so I wouldnt mind tackling a rebuild myself, IF i can get the parts.

Anyone have any info for me to work with? Are there rebuild kits available? Are the reman ones actually the correct fitment?

Pretty basic job, exercise patience.

Here is a Toyota R&P rebuild: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRdLsdymNP0

Parts access may be your limiting factor.

[dmjarosz]

Doesnt seem like the most complicated effort in the world, except for the 4,000 specialty tools needed haha.

So Ive spent the last few days shopping around for a re-manufactured rack. Nobody has one in stock with the 2.81 lock-to-lock turns of the Marauder. So my next plan(s) is to either just bite the bullet and replace with a MGM rack at 2.88 turns lock-to-lock and swap over the EVO valves to keep the same steering assist as the marauder OR buy the MGM rack and swap out only the rack and pinion gears from my Marauder. My local Ford dealer has a Motorcraft MGM rack in stock. Its way more expensive than any of the aftermarket brands but theres just something about buying certain OEM parts that gives me comfort.
My questions:
0) More of a verification. Will the MGM rack will physically interchange with the MM rack? No sensor or clock spring issues? Clock spring issues scare me....
1) Am I crazy for even thinking about swapping parts around just to keep the MM steering ratio? Will I even notice?
2) Does the EVO valves matter between cars? I going under the assumption its just an open/close valve that is controlled from the Marauder PCM. Maybe the orifice sizes are different, giving different levels of assist between the cars?
3) Does OEM vs aftermarket matter for a rack and pinion?
4) Anyone have a better idea?

I love Isabelle but MM-specific parts availability is starting to become worrisome.

[offroadkarter]

Doesnt seem like the most complicated effort in the world, except for the 4,000 specialty tools needed haha.

So Ive spent the last few days shopping around for a re-manufactured rack. Nobody has one in stock with the 2.81 lock-to-lock turns of the Marauder. So my next plan(s) is to either just bite the bullet and replace with a MGM rack at 2.88 turns lock-to-lock and swap over the EVO valves to keep the same steering assist as the marauder OR buy the MGM rack and swap out only the rack and pinion gears from my Marauder. My local Ford dealer has a Motorcraft MGM rack in stock. Its way more expensive than any of the aftermarket brands but theres just something about buying certain OEM parts that gives me comfort.
My questions:
0) More of a verification. Will the MGM rack will physically interchange with the MM rack? No sensor or clock spring issues? Clock spring issues scare me....
1) Am I crazy for even thinking about swapping parts around just to keep the MM steering ratio? Will I even notice?
2) Does the EVO valves matter between cars? I going under the assumption its just an open/close valve that is controlled from the Marauder PCM. Maybe the orifice sizes are different, giving different levels of assist between the cars?
3) Does OEM vs aftermarket matter for a rack and pinion?
4) Anyone have a better idea?

I love Isabelle but MM-specific parts availability is starting to become worrisome.

I'm curious, where did you find that the MM and normal panthers had different ratios in the racks? I'd always read they were both 18.4:1 and I thought the only difference between the two was the weight in the variable assist.

On another note, speaking from BMW land, reach out to this guy about getting your rack rebuilt. He does list the Marauder as its own part, you could just send your rack in to have refreshed. https://www.rackdoctor.net/

https://shop.rackdoctor.net/2003-2004-Mercury-Marauder-Rack-And-Pinion-14995-300M.htm

Also yes the MM and MGM/CV racks interchange physically.

[MyBlackBeasts]

I'm curious, where did you find that the MM and normal panthers had different ratios in the racks? I'd always read they were both 18.4:1 and I thought the only difference between the two was the weight in the variable assist.

On another note, speaking from BMW land, reach out to this guy about getting your rack rebuilt. He does list the Marauder as its own part, you could just send your rack in to have refreshed. https://www.rackdoctor.net/

https://shop.rackdoctor.net/2003-2004-Mercury-Marauder-Rack-And-Pinion-14995-300M.htm

Also yes the MM and MGM/CV racks interchange physically.

Thanks for the R&P source!

[offroadkarter]

Thanks for the R&P source!


If you or anyone else tries them out please share the experience. I haven't (had a need to) had a rack rebuilt by this place yet but I read good reviews so I saved it as a mental note.

[dmjarosz]

Thanks! I definitely checked out that site. I emailed them with a few questions including asking about the marauder-specific EVO valve and the 2.81 lock to lock ratio. I Will share answer when they arrive.

What I mean by steering ratio is the lock-to-lock turns of the steering wheel. Marauder is supposedly 2.81. I've seen applications that state 2.88 and 3.00. Since the chassis and major components are the same, I'm assuming the angle the wheels are at when steering wheel is at full lock is also the same, leaving only the gear ratio in the rack to determine how far you can turn the wheel. Is this an incorrect assumption? Is the turning radius of all 2004 panthers the same? That would answer the question I think.

Ive only ever found (3) ford part numbers for 04 panthers:

3W1Z-3504 FARM is listed as MGM and CV. Lock-to-lock is stated as 2.88 by Cardone and 3.0 by ACDelco
3W1C-3504 FARM is listed as MGM and CV. (not sure why its one letter off and Ive only see this part number on rockauto by Motorcraft brand)
3W1Z-3504 GARM is listed as Marauder. Lock-to-lock is stated as 2.81 by Cardone and 3.0 by ACDelco

Who knows if any of this info is even correct... *shrug*

My next visit or phone call is with a parts manager at the local dealer. Im skeptical.

[offroadkarter]

Thanks! I definitely checked out that site. I emailed them with a few questions including asking about the marauder-specific EVO valve and the 2.81 lock to lock ratio. I Will share answer when they arrive.

What I mean by steering ratio is the lock-to-lock turns of the steering wheel. Marauder is supposedly 2.81. I've seen applications that state 2.88 and 3.00. Since the chassis and major components are the same, I'm assuming the angle the wheels are at when steering wheel is at full lock is also the same, leaving only the gear ratio in the rack to determine how far you can turn the wheel. Is this an incorrect assumption? Is the turning radius of all 2004 panthers the same? That would answer the question I think.

Ive only ever found (3) ford part numbers for 04 panthers:

3W1Z-3504 FARM is listed as MGM and CV. Lock-to-lock is stated as 2.88 by Cardone and 3.0 by ACDelco
3W1C-3504 FARM is listed as MGM and CV. (not sure why its one letter off and Ive only see this part number on rockauto by Motorcraft brand)
3W1Z-3504 GARM is listed as Marauder. Lock-to-lock is stated as 2.81 by Cardone and 3.0 by ACDelco

Who knows if any of this info is even correct... *shrug*

My next visit or phone call is with a parts manager at the local dealer. Im skeptical.

Those Part #'s are all the "reman" racks, the original rack in the car has a different number and I had to look them up one time to prove a point to a few marauder friends that our cars have different racks, but I don't have those #'s off hand. Anything "RM" at the end is Fords way of saying Reman.

I always thought the rack ratios were the same.

If we really have to go down the rabbit hole, I have a ford parts reference book from 2003 I could use to find the original P/N (I think thats where I found it last time), I'd just have to start off by finding my book.

[dmjarosz]

Oh Im already long down the rabbit hole. I don't think I've surfaced since the Eaton swap.

I just confirmed that my 04 is < 3.0 lock-to-lock though I cant tell if its 2.81 or 2.88.

I have a friend with a 2010 or 2011 crown vic and Ill ask him to measure lock-to-lock. We could also do a turning radius comparison to verify the rack travel is the same.

[justbob]

Thanks! I definitely checked out that site. I emailed them with a few questions including asking about the marauder-specific EVO valve and the 2.81 lock to lock ratio. I Will share answer when they arrive.

What I mean by steering ratio is the lock-to-lock turns of the steering wheel. Marauder is supposedly 2.81. I've seen applications that state 2.88 and 3.00. Since the chassis and major components are the same, I'm assuming the angle the wheels are at when steering wheel is at full lock is also the same, leaving only the gear ratio in the rack to determine how far you can turn the wheel. Is this an incorrect assumption? Is the turning radius of all 2004 panthers the same? That would answer the question I think.

Ive only ever found (3) ford part numbers for 04 panthers:

3W1Z-3504 FARM is listed as MGM and CV. Lock-to-lock is stated as 2.88 by Cardone and 3.0 by ACDelco
3W1C-3504 FARM is listed as MGM and CV. (not sure why its one letter off and Ive only see this part number on rockauto by Motorcraft brand)
3W1Z-3504 GARM is listed as Marauder. Lock-to-lock is stated as 2.81 by Cardone and 3.0 by ACDelco

Who knows if any of this info is even correct... *shrug*

My next visit or phone call is with a parts manager at the local dealer. Im skeptical.

Personally I’d skip the dealer. Most are convinced they came with 2v’s as a LOT of the parts fiche’s clearly say so, so it must true..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[dmjarosz]

Why couldn't it just be a leaking rack and I could do a soft rebuild and be on my merry way?

[gdmjoe]

Excerpted from the Marauder parts list at Documents MERCURY MARAUDER (http://www.gdmjoe.com/marauder/documents/documents.html) ««« -click- » Service:


http://www.gdmjoe.com/marauder/marauder-rack-and-pinion.jpg
*Part # 3W1Z-3504-GAPRM

.

[dmjarosz]

Ha that's where I got the numbers from. In fact, I think YOU gave me that document some years ago!

Do you happen to have that same doc for the crown vic? Would love to see if there's any number differences.

[gdmjoe]

dmjarosz ...Do you happen to have that same doc for the crown vic? Would love to see if there's any number differences.
The part number for the Crown Victorias is the same as that for the Grand Marquis - 3W1Z-3504-FAPRM

As for the same doc for the crown vic ...


Documents CROWN Victoria (http://www.gdmjoe.com/gothvic/documents/documents.html) ««« -click-
» Service:

.

[GreekGod]

Rock Auto:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,2003,marauder,4.6l+v8, 1387829,steering,rack+and+pini on,7388 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,2003,marauder,4.6l+v8, 1387829,steering,rack+and+pini on,7388)

[dmjarosz]

Rock Auto:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,2003,marauder,4.6l+v8, 1387829,steering,rack+and+pini on,7388 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,2003,marauder,4.6l+v8, 1387829,steering,rack+and+pini on,7388)

Stated in the info section:


Total Turns Lock To Lock
3



Even though it will physically fit and will probably function properly, its not the correct Marauder lock-to-lock turns of 2.81
I'm hunting for a true Marauder replacement, though that might be a pipe dream these days...

[GreekGod]

Total Turns Lock To Lock
3

[/TABLE]
Even though it will physically fit and will probably function properly, its not the correct Marauder lock-to-lock turns of 2.81
I'm hunting for a true Marauder replacement, though that might be a pipe dream these days...

Pipe dream indeed! The rack & pinion assembly application is for ONLY a 2003 or 2004 Marauder, and 2.81 is rounded off to 3. Do you seriously think you could even tell the .19 difference between the stated specs (IF the numbers were not rounded off)? On a Marauder 15" steering wheel, that is about a 2" difference on the outside diameter of the steering wheel.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Total Turns Lock To Lock
3

[/TABLE]
Even though it will physically fit and will probably function properly, its not the correct Marauder lock-to-lock turns of 2.81
I'm hunting for a true Marauder replacement, though that might be a pipe dream these days...

Pipe dream indeed! The rack & pinion assembly application is for ONLY a 2003 or 2004 Marauder, and 2.81 is rounded off to 3. Do you seriously think you could even tell the .19 difference between the stated specs (IF the numbers were not rounded off)? On a Marauder 15" steering wheel, that is about a 2" difference on the outside diameter of the steering wheel.


Actually yes he could.

It isn't about the lock to lock numbers, they just identify a sports steering ratio from standard.

Putting the 3.0 in a Marauder would be liker putting a Caprice steering box in a Camaro, or a Lincoln steering box in a Mustang.

It's all about steering response time for handling.

[GreekGod]

Pipe dream indeed! The rack & pinion assembly application is for ONLY a 2003 or 2004 Marauder, and 2.81 is rounded off to 3. Do you seriously think you could even tell the .19 difference between the stated specs (IF the numbers were not rounded off)? On a Marauder 15" steering wheel, that is about a 2" difference on the outside diameter of the steering wheel.


Actually yes he could.

It isn't about the lock to lock numbers, they just identify a sports steering ratio from standard.

Putting the 3.0 in a Marauder would be liker putting a Caprice steering box in a Camaro, or a Lincoln steering box in a Mustang.

It's all about steering response time for handling.[/QUOTE]

So, you know for a fact that they did not round off 2.81 to 3? You are saying that they are not Marauder spec. r&p's? Are you saying they are not variable ratio r&p's? He "made it" about "lock to lock" numbers. Are you aware that the Marauder has a variable "sports" steering ratio?

[MyBlackBeasts]

Actually yes he could.

It isn't about the lock to lock numbers, they just identify a sports steering ratio from standard.

Putting the 3.0 in a Marauder would be liker putting a Caprice steering box in a Camaro, or a Lincoln steering box in a Mustang.

It's all about steering response time for handling.

So, you know for a fact that they did not round off 2.81 to 3? You are saying that they are not Marauder spec. r&p's? Are you saying they are not variable ratio r&p's? He "made it" about "lock to lock" numbers. Are you aware that the Marauder has a variable "sports" steering ratio?[/QUOTE]

No, I've never researched i. but when it comes to auto parts they would never round off a number combined with FOMOCO having different part numbers for them would lead me to believe they are different. I know driving my MM the steering is much more responsive than a GM.

[FordNut]

The Marauder R&P is different from the CV/GM part. I ordered one at O'Reilley and it works perfect. BTW, mine wasn't worn out, the housing broke when the car slipped off a jack. Yes, I was improperly jacking the car at the crossmember and the jack was too close to the edge. Slipped off and PS fluid went everywhere. They accepted the broken one for the core charge, too.

[dmjarosz]

I'm positive they didn't round off. While I don't know exactly, mine is between 2-3/4 and 2-7/8 turns. If you put a small piece of tape at 12-o'clock while at one extreme, you can easily differentiate in 1/8 turn increments. I did the same in two friends' GM and CV and both are exactly 3 turns.

Ha, not meaning to muddy the waters even more but I found a "limousine package" application for a steering rack but could not find any specifics on what Ford included in that package. My gut hunch would be different variable assist configuration and possibly longer rack travel to help with turning radius on a longer vehicle? I really have no clue but hey, there are no bad ideas in brainstorming!

I believe the "variable sports steering ratio" you are referring to is the EVO (electronic variable orifice) that, when commanded open, allows steering fluid to bypass the steering gear, providing the driver with lower steering assist as highway speeds. I thiiink the valve itself is also specific to the Marauder as well and I know its not sold as a separate part. God forbid mine ever goes bad and i have to custom manufacture custom one...

I've also yet to hear back from Rack Doctor and I will try again. I told them about the different ratios and EVO valving and asked if they will rebuild my own rack so i know I'm getting the same internals back.

[offroadkarter]

I'm positive they didn't round off. While I don't know exactly, mine is between 2-3/4 and 2-7/8 turns. If you put a small piece of tape at 12-o'clock while at one extreme, you can easily differentiate in 1/8 turn increments. I did the same in two friends' GM and CV and both are exactly 3 turns.

Ha, not meaning to muddy the waters even more but I found a "limousine package" application for a steering rack but could not find any specifics on what Ford included in that package. My gut hunch would be different variable assist configuration and possibly longer rack travel to help with turning radius on a longer vehicle? I really have no clue but hey, there are no bad ideas in brainstorming!

I believe the "variable sports steering ratio" you are referring to is the EVO (electronic variable orifice) that, when commanded open, allows steering fluid to bypass the steering gear, providing the driver with lower steering assist as highway speeds. I thiiink the valve itself is also specific to the Marauder as well and I know its not sold as a separate part. God forbid mine ever goes bad and i have to custom manufacture custom one...

I've also yet to hear back from Rack Doctor and I will try again. I told them about the different ratios and EVO valving and asked if they will rebuild my own rack so i know I'm getting the same internals back.

Long long ago I had read a post (probably on MotorCityMarauders) about Steve Babcock talking about using a "limo" steering rack (he may have even said gear if this was on the original prototype) to test a quicker ratio steering setup, but decided not to go with it because they were afraid of old people over-inputting and spinning out.

I was always under the assumption the only difference between a CV and MM rack was the level of variable assist. If you end up proving otherwise that the Marauder does indeed have a slightly quicker (although IMO still not quite quick enough) rack ratio, that'd be quite a find so many years after these cars were made.

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

I purchase a rebuilt unit for my Black from a guy in Florida off of car-parts.com with lifetime warranty.
Used his rack and replaced everything else with the stuff from my car.
Still no problem after 2 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PRCARGUY]

Thanks! I definitely checked out that site. I emailed them with a few questions including asking about the marauder-specific EVO valve and the 2.81 lock to lock ratio. I Will share answer when they arrive.
I was wondering how this has worked out for you or anyone else. The rack and pinion is now leaking on my car.

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

Still working perfectly!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

I was told the electrical connection is different in the Marauder then the GM or CV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk