Knock, Knock. Who's there.....

[seanpatrick2000]

I just changed my oil in my 03 mm and my annoying valve train ticking is now knocking. There is plenty of oil per the dip stick and the pressure gauge says 68 psi. when I cold start it, it knocks loud then calms dow a bit but is definitely worse than before. idle is smooth and
seems to have plenty of power driving, I just drove it 40 miles and it didn't get worse but didn't get better either. any Idea's what's knocking? doesn't sound quite like a rod bearing but it's worse then valve noice???? I have never heard a main knock so it could be that. i removed the belt to take away the ps, ac and alt. and still knocked so it's not an accessory.

the car has 130k on the clock so it's no spring chicken but it's not an old timer either. does anybody think that a new top end would fix
it or does it sound like I need an entire motor?

or is there a chance it's a flat lifter? though I put a rod on the rocker covers to listen if the noice was coming from there and it seems it's
coming from lower in the motor then the rockers.

[03Merc]

130k miles....all stock? No tune? Never opened up? Timing components done? Oil filter housing gasket ever replaced? Ran it low on oil for a while? Cooling mod ever done? Over heat it?


I'm at 200k but fully maintained and serviced. I couldn't tell You why it's "knocking" but I listed a few things that could make this engine skip a beat. Once it does, You gotta do a full rebuild or find an Aviator engine (block and heads). Swap over the Marauder components. Hope You can save it!


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[seanpatrick2000]

it does have a mild tune from Marty but other than that it's stock. I have only owned it for the last 8k miles so I don't really know it's history, it had normal valve train ticking when I got it, it's never overheated since I have had it and the oil does not smell burnt but it's got less then 100 miles on the oil change, the old oil doesn't smell burnt either.
Does ford still carry factory rebuilds of this engine?

[Mr. Man]

Exhaust manifold leak can make noises like this. Worth a quick check.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Stock oil pressure gauge does not read actual pressure, it has no sending unit. Is your gauge factory or did you swap to swap to a real gauge?

[crouse]

Can you tell where the knocking is coming from? Any chance you could take a short video and post it?

[seanpatrick2000]

it's the stock pressure gauge I know it's not direct pressure but it's better than nothing....

I put a socket extension to my ear and probed around it's not coming from the rocker covers I touched it to the timing cover and it was louder then the rocker covers
so I think it's coming from the bottom end or timing chain tensioners could they have lost their padding? what kind of noise would that cause?

I drove it aprox. 40 miles making that noise if it were a rod bearing or main bearing I think the engine would have siezed up.

I'll take a video this afternoon and hopefully I can catch it on audio

[justbob]

Quite possibly a failed timing chain tensioner.


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[seanpatrick2000]

here is 40 seconds of my car from cold start to shut down, it seems worse today after sitting 24 hrs this was the first startup since last night
any input??? as you can see the serpentine belt is removed so it's just the engine not any accessories.

if it won't play use the link

https://youtu.be/EGWOlwDCT90



https://youtu.be/EGWOlwDCT90

[decipha]

I didnt watch the video but most likely the timing chain tensioners

it sounds like you didnt put a motorcraft oil filter on it?

[justbob]

Yep, sounds like a tensioner no longer pumping up. More than likely a plastic version that cracked. Make sure to replace with the metal version if that ends up being the culprit.

If that is indeed the issue I’d quit driving it as you will be destroying the guides and sending chunks straight south to the oil pump. Just turning the engine over by hand with the timing cover off you get an amazing amount of slap on the one side from the all the valves holding it tight and then releasing.

Ford Racing sells a nice complete kit minus gaskets that I use. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6004-a464/year/2003/make/mercury/model/marauder

Actually with that sound I wouldn’t drive it anyways..


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[seanpatrick2000]

Well that sux what is the problem with a non motorcraft filter?
shouldn't the parts house know that it has to be a motorcraft filter?
can I sue Orielly auto parts for selling me the wrong filter?

How difficult of a job is it removing the timing cover can it be done in the chassis or does the engine have to be removed?
I have the tools but haven't done this big of a job in a long time. last year I put new cams in my twin cam harley I assume
it's a similar job. do the heads have to come off?

should I replace the cams while I'm at it? with what?
any other fixes I should do while the engine is apart?

[musclemerc]

The motorcraft filter has a check valve built in to prevent dry starts. Most aftermarket filters dont have this feature. I doubt you can sue Oreillys. Its one of those owner beware things.

If you have some mechanical ability you can do the job yourself and yes it can be done with the engine in place. No the cams dont have to be replaced as they hardly wear. Just make sure you use OEM steel tensioners and not the plastic ones. Taska is a good place to get all the parts.

Good Luck!

[seanpatrick2000]

what is Taska, I see a Tascaparts.com is that what you are talking about?
did you listen to the video is that what the tensioner noise sounds like?

Im wondering how difficult it is to seal up the cover without taking the oil pan down?
I guess loads of black RTV would stop any oil leakage.

[musclemerc]

That was a typo.. You got it right! Tascaparts.com
The cover is designed to be removed while the oil pan is in place. Not loads of RVT just dabs in specific places

I would do a compression test just to be on the safe side.

Do you have the PDF file on the assembly? If not look this over. The timing assembly starts @ page#6
http://www.terminator-cobra.com/Cobra_Engine_Assembly.pdf

[seanpatrick2000]

If I pull the rocker covers would I be able to see the tensioner to verify the problem?
are these engines prone to the valves hitting the piston if the chain jumped a tooth?
though I don't think it did it runs to smooth for that.

[musclemerc]

The only thing you can see with the cam covers off are the secondary chains and secondary tensioners

[blazen71]

Simple Google search, try it!
.
.

[seanpatrick2000]

looks like from that picture that possible you could see a sliver view of the driver side tensioner but not the right one.
at least I should be able to tell if it's a plastic or steal tensioner

[WhatsUpDOHC]

Curious that this started after an oil change.

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[seanpatrick2000]

I bought the car a little over a year ago and it did not have a motorcraft filter on it when i bought it and I didn't put motorcraft filters for the last two oil changes, I did not know about this issue, so it's well over a year that it has had off brand filters on it. And when I bought it it did have an annoying tick but from what I have read that's normal for these engines.

there is silicone around the cover so the cover has been off before for some reason, maybe they put cheap parts on when they fixed last time.

I have started tearing it down but I'm slow so it will take me awhile to get it opened up, I have the water crossover and alternator off, next I'll get the rocker covers off tomorrow.

I see the a timing kit from Melling is about the same price as the Ford performance kit, I wonder which is better? both have steal tensioners, of course Melling probably makes the ford part also

[Turbov6Bryan]

Buy ford parts. Zack here has a list of tensioners guides and gaskets. Those are $231.30 shipped from tasca. You can save time by lifting the cam covers and not removing them. Reuse the chains, might run 5w20 and 10w30 mix on the future oil changes

[seanpatrick2000]

I don't know with 130k on those chains, I think it would be smart to buy new ones. those are long chains and I"m sure they stretch over time.
Is there an issue with removing the cam covers? I have read in a mustang chassis the clutch/brake masters has to be removed is that a problem on the marauder?

Ok I'm reading the right side cam cover is a tight fit. I wonder if taking the plenum off would give enough clearance to remove it completely.

[justbob]

Remove passenger engine mount 18mm nut located straight up through the engine cradle, jack up the engine. The cover will come off with ease.


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[seanpatrick2000]

what about the driver side? that one also look tight

[seanpatrick2000]

Im about ready to remove the timing cover, I had the left rocker cover off enough to see the tensioner it's plastic but looks in good shape the plastic tension pad also looks fine, I'm hoping the problem is on the right side, just got the rocker cover loose but can't lift it high enough to see anything, Im going to pull the balancer and pw steering pump pully then remove the timing cover. I"m slow I know, does anybody know if I have to remove the crank position sensor before removing the cover or will it come off ok with it in place, I don't want to damage it I guess best to just remove it either way. does anyone know of a reasonably priced tool to lock the cams if I change the secondary chains?
I may just leave them if they look good.

also I have a Steeda under drive pully set from my crown vic lx sport, will it fit the 2003 DOHC 4.6 if it's off a 2004 SOHC 4.6?

I removed the wiper motor trying to get the driver side cam cover off but it's still stuck, if I remove the upper plenum will it be free to come off or does the pw brake drum have to be moved?
any tips or advice would be appreciated

[Shinker]

Yes you have to remove crank sensor or you will probably break it. Sounds like same issue I had. Passenger side tensioner was bad. Smashed up the chain guides and the broken pieces ended up in oil pan which is also bad because smaller pieces usually find their way into pick up screen partially blocking oil to the pump. I’m the curious type so pulled engine to check the pickup screen for trash and yup, broken guide pieces in there.

[seanpatrick2000]

I take it the pan can't be removed in the chassis??? did you have to remove the power brake booster to remove the engine?

[justbob]

I take it the pan can't be removed in the chassis??? did you have to remove the power brake booster to remove the engine?

Not unless you want to drop the K member.

And no, booster stays. Booster and hood installed, side exit with headers, blower, harness and all plucked out. Too easy on these cars.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200820/ad253cf0363c97f6823155269939af 4f.jpg


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[seanpatrick2000]

where is the best place to attach the lift chain, I have never pulled one of these before I guess they are not that heavy so I would assume any tapped holes
on the heads would hold the thing. are these cars aluminum blocks or steal?

[seanpatrick2000]

Well dang I finally got the timing cover off, at first I was upset everything looked fine the chains were tight other then someone put cheap Chinese parts on it, it looked ok. Then I felt the tension on the driver side chain down around the crank sprocket the chain flops around +/- .250 looks like the chain was dragging on the crescent shaped land on the oil pump the damage does not look bad it just scratched off a small bit of the land. what a pain to get that cover off, now I have to get
the cam covers off to change out the chains/sprockets. I don't know if the chains stretched or just the tensioner went bad but something is not right...

it happened suddenly so I think the tensioner failed if the chain stretched it would have happened slowly not all at once. it has cheap plastic tensioners and the chains look like they are very low quality

[justbob]

Chains are normally just fine. Anal OCD guys like me just prefer to change everything, but normally not needed. As for the slack, depending on where the valves are at you could easily have that but the scratching you noticed is pretty much the answer to your question..

Also when you test rotate it by hand you will notice the timing marks will pretty much never line up again and you will get a nasty chain slap I “think” on the drivers chain. Been seven years or so for me and my mind is slowly going south the older I get.. Anyways that is normal. Just follow the procedure from Ford Racing and you’ll be fine.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FORDINSTSHTM-6004-A464.PDF

It sounds like the tensioner has failed to hold oil pressure or the ratcheting mechanism has failed from the plastic cracking.

Those cheap parts are probably factory as some cars had plastic, some steel.

Also make sure you change out the spark plug well seals when you do the cam covers as they are prone to leak.


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[justbob]

Oh and dang your slow. I had my cover off and drivers head w/long tube header still attached removed in under 2 hours! [emoji12]
You could say I went ballistic on it..

I had 3 hours to get the head to the head shop to repair my booboo before they closed but at least I had three days after work to reinstall before heading to Louisville for a meet. [emoji1303]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/5a7fee1de6377f0cfaf7909cd560ee 0c.jpg




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[Shinker]

Same thing happened to me when I did this job. Chains were tight when I removed cover but when I turned engine over by hand using a 12 point 1 1/4” socket on crank snout the passenger side tensioner flopped around like crazy. The plastic or composite primary tensioners have an internal spring inside that keep the chains tight when engine is not running. After I replaced those 2 tensioners and turned engine over by hand chains stayed tight. I ended up buying 2 primary chains and 2 composite tensioners from ford dealer. Threw it back together and it worked fine... for a year. Then it developed the annoying head tick. Lol. It’s all apart again but slowly getting car back together. Not terribly inspiring I know but I still love this beast.

[seanpatrick2000]

should the tensioners hold the chains tight with no oil pressure???? don't they have a ratchet or something that locks them extended? I need to investigate further, if I remember correctly looking at the front of the engine facing the rear of the car the crank rotates clockwise??? am I right or just remembering wrong?

this thing had gobs of silicone everywhere so I know it's been off before if they did replace the chains with aftermarket chains are they good enough to keep and just replace the tensioners?

there is a sending unit down by the oil filter Im assuming that is the oil pressure sending unit, I want to put an autometer guage in is that the sending unit I need to change out?

[Shinker]

The steel tensioners have the ratcheting mechanism. I have my old composite tensioners on a bench in my garage and they are spring loaded. Hard to push in and spring back to fully extended when released. Definitely enough tension to keep chains tight when not pumped up with oil pressure as would be the case with engine running. Engine rotates counterclockwise when standing in front facing engine. Whether you decide to reuse primary chains is gonna have to be your call. There are 6 spots on timing cover that require some type of oil resistant silicone so there should be some visible but not huge gobs of it if a pro did the work. The sending unit you speak of is the sender for the interior oil pressure gauge

[seanpatrick2000]

5103451035
There were gobs of silicone everywhere, this was not a professional repair.
Here is the driver side tensioner guide, it has no part number cast into it and is worn pretty excessively, not a ford part obviously
it looks like the side of the chain was actually rubbing on the oil pump slightly as well as rubbing on that crescent land on the pump.
the down side of the chain was flopping before I removed the tensioner so it was not holding the chain very tight.
my composition tensioner doesn't look cracked or anything, I can push the plunger down about 1/3 to 1/2 the way then it gets hard to push in further.

[seanpatrick2000]

How do you get the driver side cam cover off, the passenger side I'm told you unbolt the mount and lift the engine it comes off, is that the same for the driver side?
I took off the wiper motor module and the throttle body but it's still not clearing , if I take off the upper plenum will that give enough room to get it off
?

[Shinker]

Well my opinion for what it’s worth (not much)is bare minimum get new tensioners of your choice and chain guides. Things can get carried away and expensive after that. Your situation seems similar to mine when I first got my car. Previous owner cheaped out and got his farmer brother-in-law who was pretty handy to do it because dealer wanted a small fortune to do the job. They used aftermarket chains and guides and left old tensioners in there. Didn’t work but I got it cheap. I agree that having a real oil pressure gauge is a great idea so you can monitor that after it’s buttoned up.

[Shinker]

When I did mine I removed both motor mount bolts, wiper cowl assembly and upper intake and that was enough but it’s still ugly. Didn’t have a clue what I was doing either but the people on here helped me through it. Take your time. Getting in a rush can lead to mistakes

[seanpatrick2000]

I got new steel tensioners from summit and an autometer oil pressure gauge, the sending unit for the gauge is huge compaired to the stock ford unit
do I need to get some elbow's and extensions to get it to fit or will it screw in place, I got the digital meter and a digital volt meter to replace the two stock
gauges in the pod. I'm waiting for gaskets and chain guides I ordered from Napa auto parts, hope they are quality parts and not cheap Chinese crap.
Im going to reuse the chains if this doesn't fix the problem and I have to pull the engine to rebuild it I'll replace the chains.

[Edward Myers]

I got new steel tensioners from summit and an autometer oil pressure gauge, the sending unit for the gauge is huge compaired to the stock ford unit
do I need to get some elbow's and extensions to get it to fit or will it screw in place, I got the digital meter and a digital volt meter to replace the two stock
gauges in the pod. I'm waiting for gaskets and chain guides I ordered from Napa auto parts, hope they are quality parts and not cheap Chinese crap.
Im going to reuse the chains if this doesn't fix the problem and I have to pull the engine to rebuild it I'll replace the chains.

get and elbow i just fitted a second pressure sensor on second port of the oil filter adapter. elbow is needed if you dont anything you try will hit the steering rack

[seanpatrick2000]

Does anyone have a link to a wiring diagram for the oil pressure gauge and volt gauge that shows the color code for the wiring?
my new gauges call for fused power to the back lights I assume that the 12v lighting system on my marauder are already fused?
what amp fuse does the lighting have the gauges call for 1 amp fast acting fuses, I wonder if I have to add an inline fuse to meet this spec???

[Edward Myers]

Does anyone have a link to a wiring diagram for the oil pressure gauge and volt gauge that shows the color code for the wiring?
my new gauges call for fused power to the back lights I assume that the 12v lighting system on my marauder are already fused?
what amp fuse does the lighting have the gauges call for 1 amp fast acting fuses, I wonder if I have to add an inline fuse to meet this spec???

I have diagrams from All Data, it has color coding, all is alredy fused, the oil pressure, volt gauge and cigarette lighter operated off one fuse. youll have to add in that one amp fuse, lowest ford goes is 10-5 PM me. I can send over alot of crap

[justbob]

A few thousand Marauders have simply spliced into the OEM wires and never had an issue.


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[seanpatrick2000]

I bought digital gauges not normal gauges so the fuse might be needed to protect the electronic innards, both gauges call out 1 amp fuses on the back light.

[MyBlackBeasts]

I bought digital gauges not normal gauges so the fuse might be needed to protect the electronic innards, both gauges call out 1 amp fuses on the back light.

Tap in to the OEM wire with a micro-fuse holder and install 1-amp fuse to feed that wire on the gauge

[seanpatrick2000]

Now I'm totally bummed, I got the timing cover back on and fired it up, it's still knocking it must be a rod knock. where do you get these engines rebuilt?
does ford carry crate engine replacements? should I have this one rebuilt or is it best to get a used engine from an aviator?

what engine builders know these engines well enough to rebuild them in So California?

[sailsmen]

Try researching Jasper.

[seanpatrick2000]

where can I get a timing cover for my marauder, the guy who did my AC work put to long a bolt in the grove idler pulley and it cracked the nob that the pully rides on, when I took it off the piece fell off when I tightened it up.

[seanpatrick2000]

well if anybody is interested I finally got my MM back on the road, it did spin a rod bearing, had the engine rebuilt and man it sure idles smoooooooth now.
It needed a crank core and two rod cores but otherwise the engine was in pretty good shape only needed to bore the cylinders out .020, not to shabby for 135k miles
I guess I'm lucky it didn't throw a rod thru the side of the block. Just passed 300 miles since the rebuild and everything is fine. I bought the new timing cover from the mach 1 and it fit nicely. not sure what they did to my AC though it doesn't blow as cold as it did before the engine build, I guess it leaked a bit of freon sitting idle so long.

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

Who rebuilt your engine? Cost if you don’t mind? And warranty?


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