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Dan
06-26-2004, 05:48 AM
I found a ported SC on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7906668376&category=33741).

Here are two photos that show the difference...
http://i10.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/00/58/51_1.JPG http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/01/bd/d6_1.JPG

Note the difference of the smaller triangular opening in the second photo and how much wider it is.

I guess I am wondering how such a mod would incread performance. It seems to me that there must be a way or someone wouldn't make the mod in the first place.

The reserve on the part is $400.00. If there is a reasonable gain that can be expected from such a change why wouldn't someone make a ported SC a part of their Trilogy install?

Any info from Trilogy would be appreciated. It's all in the name of horsepower. :)

Thanks,

Dan

Dan
06-26-2004, 05:56 AM
Found more infohere. (http://www.rpmoutlet.com/lighthouse.htm)

It looks like another 35+ HP.

Dan

Jerry Barnes
06-26-2004, 06:03 AM
Dan,

Please give Lidio a call. He is the only Marauder owner that I know of that has had that modification. He also has the dyno runs before and after to show the results. Lidio's number is (586)463-0100.

Thanks

Lidio
06-26-2004, 08:34 PM
I had Apten port the Trilogy blower on my MM before it even went on to the car back in February. At that time Apten felt, and acknowledged that the Trilogy Eaton M-112 was already prepped by Magnason quite well and may not improve from porting as much as the production Cobra and Lightning ones do.

I believe this to be true because my MM trilogy set up makes about 14psi of boost the way its puley’d and a couple of others that we’ve now installed Trilogy’s on with the same little 2.8” pulley as me and no porting are also making about 14psi of boost and the same RWHP as me. When I first put it on a few months ago I did believe that the porting may have been worth about 15-RWHP over no-porting, but have since then wrote that off as minor differences and tolerances between my MM/Trilogy set up and the other similar MM’s with Trilogy set-ups.

For now I’m not recommending porting a Trilogy Eaton M-112 for a few simple reasons. Number one cost, secondly… just pulley it harder and make more boost that way, third… an over spun Trilogy Eaton will make 14psi with ease and with no risk on the blower life from what we can tell. This is plenty of boost on a 10:1 compression MM motor with up to 93 octane and a responsible/proper tune. So if you don’t intend to run race gas on a MM with a trilogy then theirs no need to try to make any more then 14-15psi which is easily attained via pulley’s. Plus we’ve never tried spinning a Trilogy Eaton faster then I have which is with an approximate 7”dia crank pulley (similar to 03 Cobra & ’99-up Lightning) and 2.8” blower pulley. There may be more left there as well. And from what I’ve seen on some Cobra ported eatons is that the porting does pay off in the higher revs but makes the blower come on a little slower in the lower rpm range. This is not a problem in a Cobra which really falls off at the high rpms and needs help up there, but I wouldn’t want to sacrifice this low-end in a MM with a Trilogy if the porting worked.


Thanks

BillyGman
06-27-2004, 02:06 AM
I'd like to add my 2 cents to this also. First let me say that I have absolutely no argument w/what Lidio has written here. After speaking w/Lidio over the telephone several times,as well as reading his entire website, I'm completely confident that the man knows what he's talking about, and is a straight shooter too. I find that to be a rare combination in the business world.


I just want to point out here that you should keep in mind that even though running a smaller S/Cer pulley is more favourable than having the Trilogy S/Cer ported, I believe that running the S/Cer at a faster speed by using a smaller pulley than the Trilogy kit comes with, will not only give the engine more power, but it will also make the S/Cer have a more noticeable whining noise.

I say that because I use the original pulley that comes already mounted on the Trilogy S/Cer, and it can't even be heard over my Kooks exhaust system even from outside the car while I'm at full throttle. And in the videos I've seen of other members' Trilogy equipped Marauders which have had custom S/Cer pulleys installed, the S/Cer whine is very noticeable.

I find that most performance enthusiasts like the whining noise, however I'm one of those who do NOT. So I'm just making mention of this incase you're one of those people like me who wouldn't want the S/Cer whine to be heard over and above the car's exhaust note.

For those who are like me who wouldn't like an increase in the blower whining noise w/the smaller S/Cer pulley, some alternatives which would also give you an extra power increase over having the standard Trilogy kit alone, would be to add the Kooks headers and exhaust package, taller gears, or a Stallion Torque converter. Ofcourse as you can see by my signature, I've added all three. I'm not in any way saying that using a smaller pulley is neccessarily wrong. I'm simply stating that there are alternatives, and it's all a matter of preference. If you want an 11 second Marauder, you can have the smaller pulley installed in addition to adding all the other mods I've listed also. But as for me, I'm very happy and satisfied w/turning low 12's in the quarter.

But in light of what Lidio has pointed out here, I for one wouldn't bother w/porting.

Dan
06-27-2004, 05:21 AM
All of this information is GREAT and very useful.

Thanks, Guys.

Best,

Dan

MikesMerc
06-27-2004, 06:12 AM
FYI for those concerned about the "noise" issue:

Spinning the blower harder with a smaller pulley does make more noise, BUT only on the very low rpm side. Once the engine hits 2700 rpm at WOT, the blower makes about the same amount of noise regardless of pulley size.

Billy, believe me, once your engine is anyhwere above 3000 rpm at WOT, your blower is making just as much noise as everyone elses:D

BillyGman
06-27-2004, 08:23 AM
Billy, believe me, once your engine is anyhwere above 3000 rpm at WOT, your blower is making just as much noise as everyone elses:DI don't see how you can say that. The Eaton S/Cer has a rotor design that reduces noise. And that's according to the manufacture. Look at both of the burnout videos I've posted on this board, and then look at those posted w/your car and Dave's car doing a burnout as well as on the Dyno, and there's a majot difference. I don't see how that can be disputed. In both those videos of mine, I had the engine at 6600 RPM's.

Here's a link to the dyno videos of Dave's and Mike's cars........

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10224&highlight=Dyno+video


And here's one of the videos of my car.....

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/images/video.gif (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/3375/password/ca66a98a00c09c4685fdcfb9de4612 57/sort/1/cat/500/page/1)

another of my car although the audio isn't as good in this one....

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/images/video.gif (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/3247/password/ca66a98a00c09c4685fdcfb9de4612 57/sort/1/cat/500/page/1)


and here's a link to the post for Dave's car doing a burnout....

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10922

MikesMerc
06-27-2004, 09:02 AM
Well, there are few things to consider.

Right off the bat are the numerous variables in sound recording:

Is the car inside/outside?
From what position is the sound recording taken? Front, Side, Rear?
What were the background noises?
What distance from the car?
What was the recording equipment? What range of sounds can it accurately record?
What playback equipment? What range of sounsd can be accurately reproduced?

The list goes on and on.

Secondly, we all have the same type of "quiet" eaton blower Billy. So design is not an issue at all. And, BTW, Eaton claims "quiet" as it relates to other blower designs. Noise level is a relative thing. Stand next to a few centrifugal blowers making a run or idling and you'll quickly know how "quiet" the Eaton blower is.

Third, I've stood next to, and personally listened to, at least 7 different trilogy blown cars. They were pullied everywhere along the range from the stock pulley to the smallest pulley Lidio runs. They ALL made the same amount of noise at WOT abouve 3000 rpm.

Last, it's just mathematics Billy. Think about it. The standard blower pulley does indeed spin the blower slower at any given engine rpm versus a smaller pulley. However, the difference is not as great as you would think, and there is plenty of times when blower speeds are exactly the same if you compare blower set ups.

For example: A 3.4" pulley versus the 3.2"
The 3.2 pulley is spinning only 6% faster at equivalent engine rpms.
Therefore the blower is spinning just as fast at 3180 rpm with a stock 3.4 pulley as the blower is at 3000 rpm with the 3.2.

Your blower is making just as much noise Billy.

BillyGman
06-27-2004, 09:22 AM
Man, are you an Attorney? If not you oughtta be.:baaa:


I mentioned the thing about the Eaton's rotor design because I thought that you must have been basing your theory of the noise past a certain RPM on other S/Cer you've had in the past. because I don't see where RPM is a relevent issue here. Throttle position would be more applicable if anything.

You can talk about camera position or accoustics all you want, but watching Dave's car doing a burnout tells me that his car sounds nothing like mine, nor does yours nor the other members in the Dyno videos. I had my car dynoed as well and was standing outside of the car during the three dyno pulls, and the S/Cer cannot be heard at all. Again, nothing like your car nor Dave's car. So you have a half dozen video clips to compare. You still want to argue, go ahead. As for me, I'm convinced of what I'm saying, and I guess we can let our readers decide for themselves based on the 6 video clips available on this board. Too bad you don't live closer. I could show you what I'm talking about then.

MikesMerc
06-27-2004, 09:31 AM
Okay.

So what you are willing to go on record saying is that the Eaton blower, spun at exactly the same rpms at WOT, makes two different levels of noise? Even if the only difference at all is that one car has the engine rpm 6% faster?

Is this correct?

I'm just teasing a little here, but think about what your saying. The pulley size has EVERYTHING to do with blower RPM. That's why different pulley sizes change the level of boost.

There is far too much variation in the film clips, equipment used, and the equipment on the cars themselves to make any judgement.

Live in denial if you want, but your blower makes the same amount of noise. The laws of mathematics and physics are the same in your universe as well as everyon elses....I think;)

MikesMerc
06-27-2004, 09:33 AM
After carefully listening to the clips, I have indeed made a certain conclusion...you blower definitely makes as much noise! Thanks for putting the clips together to make it easy:)

The difference between the sounds in the clips (aside from all the other variable I noted), is that your exhaust is, by far, the loudest of the bunch and drowns out the blower. None of the cars in the clips besides your own has the Kooks headers or any of the other exhaust mods you have. If you listen to your clip carefully and try to ignore the exhaust tones, you can clearly hear the blower whining like a banshi!

Drowning out the sound of the blower with your exhuast doesn't make the blower itself any quieter:D

Dan
06-27-2004, 09:52 AM
Court Is Adjourned! :lol:

BillyGman
06-27-2004, 09:53 AM
That's what I originally had thought Mike. However when I mentioned that in the thread that Dave started where he posted the video clips or your car and his on the Dyno, he argued w/me that either your your car or that other member's car has mufflers that are just as loud. So either way I get an argument. Maybe some day we will all get together to compare notes and cars. It's been my wish to get a video clip of two or three S/ced Marauders doing burnous simultaneuosly anyway.


But for now, the best we can do is provide our fellow board members w/different viewpoints to help them out w/their modification choices. (hows that for diplomacy?) I still think your S/Cer is louder. But I suppose it's all heresay from both of us since I have not seen nor heard your car in person, and you have not seen nor heard mine. And that would be the only way either one of us would know about this for sure despite all of the math. (and I still think you're a Lawyer :D ).

MikesMerc
06-27-2004, 10:22 AM
But for now, the best we can do is provide our fellow board members w/different viewpoints to help them out w/their modification choices. (hows that for diplomacy?)

Fair enough :)



and I still think you're a Lawyer :D ).

Nope. Just one highly opinionated, argumentative SOB who subconsciously thinks he is still the debate team captain :lol:

BillyGman
06-27-2004, 09:41 PM
Nope. Just one highly opinionated, argumentative SOB who subconsciously thinks he is still the debate team captain :lol:[/QUOTE]
LOL..............