Locked out

[azgolfrat]

Hey Guys, back again from my "summer gig" up in the mountains. Time to get this baby rolling! Not much work to do, 'cept replacing the oil pan with a new one I had a bung welded into for the Vortech SC oil drain.

BUT*8%^7$#@34 I think I locked my only key in the trunk ! Arrrrgghhh.

So, anyone know the best way to get that trunk open w/o a key?
The car is up on jacks
the button on the the drivers side door doesnt do it
I have the back seat back and seat cushions out...but the rear tire stares me in the face..
Is there a latch back in the cavernous trunk somewhere that I might be able to somehow grab?

Thanks - and good to be back
-KK

[Chayton]

Why doesn’t the trunk release button work?


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[azgolfrat]

I dont know. I depress it and nothing happens. There is no battery in the car...does it need juice to operate?

[Chayton]

I dont know. I depress it and nothing happens. There is no battery in the car...does it need juice to operate?

Yes! Put a good battery in and it will work.


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[azgolfrat]

ok. I've not had a battery in since Nov '19 when I took the engine out. I guess now is a good time to start. :/
Many thanks
-KK

[azgolfrat]

Well, I connected up a battery and got a lot of heat and smoke.
The button did not release the trunk.
I must have something incorrectly wired on the marauder ...though I was pretty careful as I went...
In any case..
Any other ideas? Is there a release latch interior to the trunk?
Thanks
KK

[Chayton]

Well, I connected up a battery and got a lot of heat and smoke.
The button did not release the trunk.
I must have something incorrectly wired on the marauder ...though I was pretty careful as I went...
In any case..
Any other ideas? Is there a release latch interior to the trunk?
Thanks
KK

Heat and smoke from connecting the battery???? You might have bigger problems at this point I would say stop until you can get someone to work on it and resolve that electrical issue. That is a serious problem and will need to be fixed regardless, start with that and then you’ll be able to get your keys. However that being said, if you are absolutely desperate to get into the trunk you can smash out one of the reverse lights. You’ll be able to stick your hand in and pull the child emergency trunk release. I think you can do either reverse light. Keep in mind marauder reverse lights are unique to the marauder slightly tinted from the factory so you’ll be destroying something that I’m not sure you can get replacements for. You could always tint some crown Vic ones. Regardless highly doubt you are going to resort to this but you asked so that is the only other way I know of to get into the trunk. I can confirm it works I did it to a crown Vic at a junkyard that had aftermarket LED taillights that I wanted. Pretty sure I did the passenger right side reverse light but it has been many years hard to say for sure. you can also go practice this at a junkyard, I found that the end of an axle shaft works great as a ramming/smashing device [emoji1783]


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[azgolfrat]

Yeah, that was a bit of a surprise ...I'll recheck all the wiring and see what doesnt look right. Some type of short I am sure.
I'm not going to bust in. Maybe get a locksmith out here.
Thanks again
-KK

[blazen71]

There is a release handle inside the trunk. My pic will prob be upside down.

[azgolfrat]

There is a release handle inside the trunk. My pic will prob be upside down.
Thanks Blazen..
I'll get to that thing one way or another

[justbob]

Don’t forget that pesky hot starter cable resting on a ground when you hook up the battery.. Or the fuse box lead. Or the Alternator wire. [emoji1303]


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[azgolfrat]

Thanks Blazen. I got in from behind the back seat and used a golf ball retriever to yank on the release.
Just Bob, I'll let you know what dog gone electrical problem I caused when I find it...thanks for the leads :-)

-KK

[azgolfrat]

Blazen and JB,
In my electrical trouble shooting, I got into the trunk and started reviewing my fuel pump booster and relay install. This booster (and the higher flow fuel pump) came with the SC kit from Chris at ADTR.
There was a diagram for the recommended install that used to be on this site, however, ...following my previously used link, it seems to have gone away. :/
So, see my attached pic of what the correct install, I think, should look like.
Does this seem correct to you...?
(The relay allows the fuel pump cut off to work as intended when needed. The relay also keeps the booster from being powered when the ignition is off.)
Would value your input a lot here...may be the cause of my electrical issues.
Thanks
-KK
52053

[blazen71]

I have never worked with a BAP. I run a return fuel system.

[justbob]

I have never worked with a BAP. I run a return fuel system.

Return style as well. But back when I did use a BAP I just ran it per the Trilogy instruction manual which is not the proper way. Things change over the years. Lessons learned the hard way, better ways, improved parts… Go with the latest and greatest.

I never upgraded the wiring and I never had a single problem in a number of years that way. I even ran an Aeromotive 340 that is not recommended for returnless and zero issue. However the last year I was returnless I was cooking my fuel in anything over 85* so I believe after all those years I had finally fried the FPDM. Still have the same pump and added a second one though. [emoji1303]


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[azgolfrat]

Blazen, JB,
As always, thanks for the inputs.

I have double - triple checked my fuel BAP/FDPM/relay wiring AND consulted with Chris at ADTR...Im an 99.99% sure it's in correctly. I did correct a connection that was a bit dodgy. It is possible that the connection , which was a 12V line directly from the battery connected to the BAP (via a relay) was shorted to ground, as I used a metallic lug connector to connect the two wires, then tie wrapped the lug to the frame (see pic).
52054

The black wire is directly from the battery and the red wire heads up to the BAP. Like I said, this connection is now fixed. :-)
So, do you think this could have been the source of my apparent dead short that caused the smoke and heat at the jumper connection?

I've checked the starter, the alternator and all the major ground connections and they all look good.

Several months ago I did tap into an under dash fuse and into the oil pressure dash gauge in order to supply power to the 3 pod gauges I put on the driver side pillar.

Any additional trouble shooting ideas you have, please let me know - I would appreciate.
Thanks
-KK

[justbob]

Bingo. You can’t let any of that lug connector touch ground. Not sure of your wiring size but you could simply swap it with an inline fuse like this sized accordingly for wire and fuse size.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211029/6498ba5eb96798138821bca140e8bc 7d.jpg



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[blazen71]

I would just replace the lug with a heat shrink crimp connector. Any way will work as long as you're not grounding the power wire.

[Turbov6Bryan]

I always use a import car hood support rod to pull our glow in the dark safety pull.

if you ever like destroying stuff at the junk yard, destroy the passenger side rear reverse light housing to expose the trunk metal and then you can put your hand through the trunk lid and reach the glow in the dark release

[gdmjoe]

Turbov6Bryan ... if you ever like destroying stuff at the junk yard, destroy the passenger side rear reverse light housing to expose the trunk metal and then you can put your hand through the trunk lid and reach the glow in the dark release
Unless these are installed... *.attachment.

[Chayton]

I always use a import car hood support rod to pull our glow in the dark safety pull.

if you ever like destroying stuff at the junk yard, destroy the passenger side rear reverse light housing to expose the trunk metal and then you can put your hand through the trunk lid and reach the glow in the dark release


Heat and smoke from connecting the battery???? You might have bigger problems at this point I would say stop until you can get someone to work on it and resolve that electrical issue. That is a serious problem and will need to be fixed regardless, start with that and then you’ll be able to get your keys. However that being said, if you are absolutely desperate to get into the trunk you can smash out one of the reverse lights. You’ll be able to stick your hand in and pull the child emergency trunk release. I think you can do either reverse light. Keep in mind marauder reverse lights are unique to the marauder slightly tinted from the factory so you’ll be destroying something that I’m not sure you can get replacements for. You could always tint some crown Vic ones. Regardless highly doubt you are going to resort to this but you asked so that is the only other way I know of to get into the trunk. I can confirm it works I did it to a crown Vic at a junkyard that had aftermarket LED taillights that I wanted. Pretty sure I did the passenger right side reverse light but it has been many years hard to say for sure. you can also go practice this at a junkyard, I found that the end of an axle shaft works great as a ramming/smashing device [emoji1783]


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[azgolfrat]

Blazen, JB,

Just to let you know, trouble shooting confirmed
1) the trunk wiring for BAP problem (above photo) WAS the problem
in doing the work to prove this , I also determined that
2) The pod gauge and dash gauge wiring (4) is all good :-)
3) The BAP/relay/fuel pump wiring mods made are all good.
Whew.
Thanks for your help. BUT... next is the oil pan change out. My current plan is to take out the k-member in order to remove the pan. This is a bit of a pain because the engine has to be lifted and thus the plumbing connections to the SC inter-cooler have to be disconnected as the inter-cooler is mounted to the frame in front of the radiator. Another option is to pull the engine out completely and get it on a stand, etc.
Neither option is great.
Are you aware of any other method for getting the oil pan out?
Thanks!
-KK

[justbob]

I’ve had these engines out in 1 hour, never had to pull the K member so no clue.

I remove the wiper cowl and gain easy access to the trans bolts, i take the engines out with everything (harness, blower, headers,ETC), and I don’t even remove the hood.

I’ve even taken them out sideways LOL

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/204db25f11fbc6eb7d88c2f4d57444 bf.jpg

One guy local to me claimed to have found a way to wiggle the pan out but doesn’t post here anymore. I’ve got no reason to not trust him but so many others I trust say ain’t no way.


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[azgolfrat]

"I don't even remove the hood"
LOL :-)
I'll let you know how it goes!
(great pic)
-KK

[blazen71]

In the long run it will be easier to remove the engine.

[azgolfrat]

Blazen, maybe. probably. I certainly wouldn't bet on my opinion, as I am pretty much a newby.
But then, taking out the engine means disassembling all the SC related stuff...which is a big chunk of work as well.
(I am concerned that getting that oil pan/gasket back in properly from under the car will be pretty difficult...is that where you are coming from?)
Additionally, I'm sure I will learn a bunch (and break at least 1 thing) by going the k-member route.
I'll take notes and let you guys know how it goes :-)
As always, the input is much appreciated.
-KK

[justbob]

Leave the blower and as much else as you can bolted to the engine.


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[blazen71]

If the k member is out, you should have plenty of room to successfully change the gasket. Remember to put RTV on the seam where oil pan/timing cover/engine block meet! I would suggest getting and OEM service manual to reference, if you don't already have one. You can get a CD or book on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153290257271?fits=Year%3A2003&epid=22026735308&hash=item23b0cfb377:g:SRMAAOSw UP5cBsqf​
.

[blazen71]

(I am concerned that getting that oil pan/gasket back in properly from under the car will be pretty difficult...is that where you are coming from?)
-KK

I just replaced the timing components and after all the BS, it probably would have been less of a headache if I would have pulled the motor.

[azgolfrat]

OK...gotcha.
I do have the OEM service manual for the 03 Marauder. It has been very very helpful. It contains (in its 4000 pages) the complete procedure for removing the kmember and the oil pan, as well as reinstall for both. The manual was very clear about silicone gasket-sealant for the front and back of pan:

"Apply silicone gasket and sealant at the rear oil seal retainer-to-cylinder block sealing surface.
3. NOTE: If the oil pan is not secured within four minutes, the sealant must be removed and the sealing
area cleaned with metal surface cleaner. Allow to dry until there is no sign of wetness, or four
minutes, whichever is longer. Failure to follow this procedure can result in future oil leakage.

Apply silicone gasket and sealant at the engine front cover-to-cylinder block mating surface."
same 4 minute rule.

About to dive in!
Thanks guys.

[azgolfrat]

Hey guys, I got the cross member out. Its a beast.
The starting work was taking out the steering rack, the alternator, some of the super charger intercooler tubing, the power steering pump and lines, and the sway bar. We disconnected the calipers and hung them off the frame with baling wire. A couple other items required disconnecting, before getting onto supporting the engine (the car is up on jack stands). I purchased for about 80$ a tripod like contraption that sits on the front top steel near the radiator, and the steel shelf the hood would sit against, up and down the top sides of the engine compartment. We put a chain through a piece of beefy tygon tubing and ran that through the tunnel of the lower intake manifold. either end of the chain connected to J hooks coming off the tripod uni-strut. We tensioned the jhooks until the engine lifted about 1/4 inch off the kmember (engine mount nuts were removed previously). We then positioned a floor jack under the k-member and a floor jack under the front of the transmission for a little extra support / safety. There are 3 lower control arm to frame bolts on each side that are then removed, and then 4 on each side nuts/bolts associated with the upper bracket that connects a bracket from the frame to the upper portions of the kmember. Finally 4 very long bolts, 2 on each side, are removed (this required a large breaker bar) from underneath; these pin the lower portion of the kmember to the frame. Once those were out the we pryed the kmember around a little bit with a crow bar and lowered the jack and the kmember came out. The next job is pulling the pan and putting a new one in :-). Then putting it all back together. I'll send another update then. See fun pics below.

521615216252163521645216552166

[daniel.drives]

That's an impressive job, I would have gone the pull the engine route. I'll add two things: While you have it apart, clean the oil pickup tube. Disconnect from the pump and flush the inlet screen with your cleaner of choice. I've found a lot of timing guide in there before, one might even say "choking". The other thing (mostly for reference for anyone else reading) on a stock NA marauder, you can remove the cowl and lift the engine/trans up enough to drop the oil pan, clean chunks of timing guide out of the sump, change the gasket, clean the pickup tube, and put it all back together. That method does NOT get you enough room between the K member and the transmission to actually drop the pan out of the car, so if you need to replace your pan you will need to either drop the K member or pull the engine.

Azgolfrat, I'm in Glendale, I'd love to stop by your place and check out your marauder. Alternately, I'll be at Wild Horse track for the 3 days after thanksgiving if you want to see (or ride in) a marauder getting flogged around a track.

[justbob]

Kudos to you! Honestly I think the K member is quite literally the only thing I haven’t removed on mine. [emoji16]


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[azgolfrat]

Getting it out was hard :-)
Getting it back in is proving to be tougher. The cross bolt flanges on the Moog upper control arms are very tight against the frame as the kmember is raised using a transmission jack.
If, after initial raising contact with the frame , the alignment isn't pretty darn close to perfect, the engine mount studs are misaligned (not by a lot) to the kmember accepting holes. At this point the flanges on the Moog have the kmember pinned to frame and not able to be wiggled. Ugh. So, today I'm going to disconnect upper control arms, lean them back a bit , and that should allow the kmember to be wiggled a bit,as being raised, in order to line up to mount studs.
I'll update after my hand are greasy and my knuckles a bit cut up :-)

[azgolfrat]

DD, after all the work, I think pulling the engine probably would have been more straight forward. And maybe less time consuming. But, I learned a lot.
The engine is fresh from a rebuild, so all the oil works (and everything else) are very clean for now - but great input, thanks.
I'd love to have you drop by.
You can ring me at 480 299 9501 ..I've a couple errands to run in the next few days, but I'm sure we can figure something out. I'm about 10 minutes east of the Thunderbird track.

[azgolfrat]

I feel like I've moved from recruit to private, getting kudos from JB.
Thanks JB :-)

[justbob]

I feel like I've moved from recruit to private, getting kudos from JB.
Thanks JB :-)

[emoji1303]


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[azgolfrat]

Got the kmember back in. Removing the top cross bolts on the upper control arms made it much easier to align the darn thing as it was being raised. The 4 long bolts that go from the bottom of the kmember up through the frame are threaded at the top of the frame. This allowed me to use them as alignment pins as soon as the kmember had been lifted to within a couple inches of the engine mount studs; up through the member and through the frame...nearly perfect alignment. Just a little wiggling got the mount studs to come through the kmember, then it was raise it up to touching the engine mounts and start bolting down the entire thing. There is a specific tightening sequence for the top of the kmember brackets - manual said to to be sure to follow. One last little trick that really helped was clamping the kmember to the transmission jack while raising the kmember. The kmember center of mass is behind the kmember, between the lower control arms, which causes the kmember to tip backwards when placed on the transmission jack cradle. Clamping got the kmember pretty much level as it was being raised.

As far as the rebuild...I'm done! Now it's time to put it all together, do all the fluids (eng oil, trans, brakes, power steering & coolant) then...geez, scary thought, give 'er a start.

JB...any input on how to fill , purge, etc., the power steering system?
Many thanks
-KK

[justbob]

That means you are currently up to the point of remembering you forgot the pan gasket. [emoji16]

Fill it up to full and give the wheel a few full left and right turns, fill again and fire it up. Never mind the sound if any, just repeat left to right and keeping it full.


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[blazen71]

I like to fill the reservoir to full. Turn wheel back and forth 10 times with motor off. Refill. Start motor and shut off within 3 sec. Refill. Start motor. Turn back and forth 10 times. Stop motor. Refill. Let sit overnight to allow any air to purge. Then drive. OCD?

[blazen71]

Also, if this is the first time starting your motor, don’t idle it! Check this link out…

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[azgolfrat]

It will be 1st start up. Been 2 yrs in the coming!

[blazen71]

It will be 1st start up. Been 2 yrs in the coming!
Please do a lot of research on starting a new motor. And it wouldn't hurt to ask the place that rebuilt the motor too. It is paramount to break in the new motor correctly!

[blazen71]

Get a cheap hand pump garden sprayer. Remove an oil plug somewhere and install a barb. Hook up the hose to the barb and pump at least a few qts of oil into the motor. This should prime the oil system before trying to start the motor.

[azgolfrat]

Blazen,
Yes, I was really wondering about that.
The outfit who rebuilt the engine (Zimmerman Racing in Glendale AZ) put a small amount of oil into the engine when he rebuilt it...but the engine has been sitting in the car for ~ 1.5 years while I finished all the other work; so all that oil has drained to the oil pan (which, per the above, was replaced), so there is very little oil left in the engine.
About the procedure you discuss above....
Not sure what you mean by "remove an oil plug". Do you mean freeze plug?
Not sure what a "barb" is (I had a crush on aunt barb when I was a kid). Can you explain?
What would you think about cranking the engine over a few times by hand via the crankshaft pulley in order to spread the initial oil around before starting the car.

[azgolfrat]

Blazen,
On the phone with Mo's speed shop a bit ago, his helper, who was really helpful, explained to me the process for tuning the car (remember I added a Super Charger and a bigger fuel pump)... it involved driving the car and real time sending engine data to Mo who would real time use that data to tune the car remotely (he's in GA, I'm in AZ). After reading the article at the link you sent (thanks btw), I'm wondering "what 1st?"
If I go with Mo's tune 1st, I can't do the break in a described by the article. If I go for break in 1st, per the article, I would do it on a car that isn't tuned, and I'm not sure that is a good thing to do.

Is it possible to do the tune on the dyno during a dyno break in?

I thought taking out the kmember was tricky. :-)

[azgolfrat]

Blazen, I think I saw Mo is on the site....maybe I should ask his recommendation?

[blazen71]

Blazen, I think I saw Mo is on the site....maybe I should ask his recommendation?Yes, talk to Marty (Mo) about the process. He'll guide you in the right direction. On the oil filter adaptor there should be a pipe plug or the oil pressure sender. Remove it and thread in a pipe fitting with a hose barb on it. Hook up the hose from sprayer and pump oil. When done, remove the hose barb and reinstall the pipe plug or sender.

[blazen71]

I've done several remote tuning sessions with Marty. It's a simple process with great results.

[azgolfrat]

OK, I get it. I have my supercharger oil feed on that port. Should be no problem to remove it temporarily.
I really appreciate the help from you and JB.
I will let you know what Zimmerman says for break in (will consult him in any case).
Thanks
-KK

[blazen71]

No problem. It's nice to see people still interested in modding these old tanks, and doing the wrenching yourself!

[azgolfrat]

Guys, I'm going to pre oil the engine per the description from Blazen above - I'm going to use the gizmo in the photo below to provide the pressure to get the oil in through the port on the oil filter adapter.
Think this will work?
52193
I use the pictured gizmo to hand pump/ siphon oil out through the dispstick tube of my 2015 Genesis - getting the undercover off for access to the oil pan drain plug is a real pain in the neck (though I've recently made some mods that have made it easier)
Thanks
-KK

[blazen71]

Pump 6qts MAX. Don't fill that thing up and pump it all in :P

[azgolfrat]

what? a little oil is good , so more must be better!
Thanks for the help :-)