Should I buy this?

[klowpez]

Hello all! New to the forum but not to the panther platform. I've had my share of grand marquis and town cars, but recently an opportunity came up to purchase a 2004 Marauder with under 75k miles..for cheap..

However, the 4V twin cam is a whole new beast to me and I'm not sure what's normal or whats not.No rust,no rot,no dents,etc.
With that being said-There's a prominent vibration to the engine, between 1500-1900RPM, which then smooths out after 2k RPM. this is just at a standstill in park.
It drives fine other than that, shifts fine, needs a steering shaft and tires etc.

Anywho, there's a little noise in the motor which to me sounds like valvetrain noise, but i've heard horror stories about bad heads, etc.

What do you guys think?Listen to this : https://youtu.be/hFCL28l1Mh4
52169

[RubberCtyRauder]

Sounds like a rod knock, I see a rebuild in it's future.

[SilverPhoenix]

The squeak squeak sound is familiar and I believe it's one of the pulleys; my MM was making the same noise and when that pulley was replaced the squeak stopped. Unfortunately this was done roughly 7-8 years ago and I cannot remember which pulley it is.

The knocking sound is not good. I have 178k on my MM and it doesn't make that sound. Is the current owner putting the correct gas in it (91 octane)?

However, without knowing how 'cheap' the price on this MM is and if you have/don't have the skills to fix something like this yourself, it's hard to say you should/should not buy it. I mean, finding a MM with low mileage isn't easy, but if you have to pay someone to do a major engine repair or have to replace it, that makes the 'cheap' car not so cheap any more...

Edit: One more thing...has this MM been in MA it's whole life? Check for rust...

Edit #2: Just remembered that it was the idler pulley that was making the squeak sound.

[klowpez]

EDIT: For what it's worth, doesn't sound like rod knock -it's pretty apparent it's coming from the top of the engine, almost near the intake area it sounds like.

[klowpez]

The squeak squeak sound is familiar and I believe it's one of the pulleys; my MM was making the same noise and when that pulley was replaced the squeak stopped. Unfortunately this was done roughly 7-8 years ago and I cannot remember which pulley it is.

The knocking sound is not good. I have 178k on my MM and it doesn't make that sound. Is the current owner putting the correct gas in it (91 octane)?

However, without knowing how 'cheap' the price on this MM is and if you have/don't have the skills to fix something like this yourself, it's hard to say you should/should not buy it. I mean, finding a MM with low mileage isn't easy, but if you have to pay someone to do a major engine repair or have to replace it, that makes the 'cheap' car not so cheap any more...

Edit: One more thing...has this MM been in MA it's whole life? Check for rust...

Edit #2: Just remembered that it was the idler pulley that was making the squeak sound.

Looks like my reply was deleted.
-It's been in MA all its life, no rot, just surface rust.
-I'm talking a couple of grand cheap, again it needs some love with the paint, interior ,tires, etc but nothing i'm not used to.
-The squeak is definitely idler pulley.
-the interesting part about the sound is that it's only at idle, i can't hear it once i step on the gas...it doesn't get louder or anything it just goes away, however that vibration is there until about 2k rpm
-also, it looks like it's been sitting for a few months at least, last passed state inspection in june of this year but it's covered in leaves, dirt, etc.
-current owner is unknown, i'm buying from my buddy who took it in as trade, it's only got a 1/4 tank in it but who knows if they last used premium , probably the same tank of gas from june.

[MO Merc]

My buddy had 225,000 miles on his 04 Marauder before he sold it. No noise at all. This car was super abused. Maybe ran without oil ? Who knows what problems will show next. Proceed with caution. $$$

[klowpez]

My buddy had 225,000 miles on his 04 Marauder before he sold it. No noise at all. This car was super abused. Maybe ran without oil ? Who knows what problems will show next. Proceed with caution. $$$

Thanks all, I'll keep it in mind. Carfax looks good, oil changes every 5k. Which again- it's 17 years old with 75k on it, so once a year for an oil change?

I'm not a stranger to engine work, but yea I don't want to be pulling a motor in my driveway though again it doesn't sound that bad. I was looking to see if anyone had or heard of anything similar. The video makes it sound worse than it is as it's amplified/echoing, but with the hood closed you can barely hear it, and when you are trying to hear it closer it sounds like it's coming from the intake.

I can't remember any of my town cars/MGMs being perfectly quiet at idle. You're telling me there's absolutely no tapping sounds from the valvetrain at idle on these?


I feel if it was major, the sound would become more prevalent with acceleration, however-it goes away once I give it gas.


Do these have issues with the spark plugs ejecting as well?

[RubberCtyRauder]

03 cars have 4 thread spark plug holes in head, 04 have 9 thread, yes, spark plugs can eject. Cyl. 7 and 8 run hot due to poor coolant passage flow and can cause seat issues with valve. Compression test can see if compression issue

[Agent2006]

That year had the plastic timing chain guide issue. Could be pieces of that broke loose and blocked oil passages, now theres some damage. My 2003 has 151k, been ridden hard/Put away wet has a car fax score of about 3, and does not make any top end noise, doesn't smoke or burn oil. Goes away when you hit the gas suggests It might have slack in the timing chains...buy it and fix it if you want! Worst scenario it needs an engine. Might as well get a compression check done and send the oil out for analysis, at least drain and look at the oil. Good luck

[SilverPhoenix]

Looks like my reply was deleted.
-It's been in MA all its life, no rot, just surface rust.
-I'm talking a couple of grand cheap, again it needs some love with the paint, interior ,tires, etc but nothing i'm not used to.
-The squeak is definitely idler pulley.
-the interesting part about the sound is that it's only at idle, i can't hear it once i step on the gas...it doesn't get louder or anything it just goes away, however that vibration is there until about 2k rpm
-also, it looks like it's been sitting for a few months at least, last passed state inspection in june of this year but it's covered in leaves, dirt, etc.
-current owner is unknown, i'm buying from my buddy who took it in as trade, it's only got a 1/4 tank in it but who knows if they last used premium , probably the same tank of gas from june.

So if I'm understanding "a couple of grand cheap" correctly, you can get this MM for $2000? If so, I'd grab it. Even if the engine turns out to be trash, you can easily get more than $2000 back by parting it out. Just the front/rear bumpers alone are worth $400-500 each...maybe more.

[klowpez]

That year had the plastic timing chain guide issue. Could be pieces of that broke loose and blocked oil passages, now theres some damage. My 2003 has 151k, been ridden hard/Put away wet has a car fax score of about 3, and does not make any top end noise, doesn't smoke or burn oil. Goes away when you hit the gas suggests It might have slack in the timing chains...buy it and fix it if you want! Worst scenario it needs an engine. Might as well get a compression check done and send the oil out for analysis, at least drain and look at the oil. Good luck


Thanks, yea no smoke on this one either. I think I might chance it cause if i don't I think I'll regret it. I think I can always get my money back in some way, there's only a few for sale in the country and all going for big money it seems . Either way, a good project I think?

Does anyone have any way of a video of their engine at idle? Just to hear a normal 4v.

[klowpez]

So if I'm understanding "a couple of grand cheap" correctly, you can get this MM for $2000? If so, I'd grab it. Even if the engine turns out to be trash, you can easily get more than $2000 back by parting it out. Just the front/rear bumpers alone are worth $400-500 each...maybe more.

Correct, I mean ideally I'd keep it. I've always been a fan of these cars/platform and it'd be nice to keep something like this that has more 'recognition' than my usual towncar. Wouldn't be a daily driver.
My goal was to see if anyone had or heard of a similar sound/symptom.
The timing chain would make sense to me if it was louder, or if there was other symptoms/noises. Again the sound is amplified in the video. If i closed the hood you'd barely be able to hear it unless you stuck your head in the wheel well or up to the hood. The thing runs like a champ on the highway , pulls great, no issues, doesn't skip a beat in any gear.

Literally, the only 'issue' i see is this little tapping sound and the vibration which in my opinion have to be related in some way and ONLY heard at idle. I just don't have enough experience with these 4V to know if it's normal valvetrain noise or not.

[Prospect62]

I mean it really all depends on what you're getting it for. If you're actually buying this car for $2000, you can't miss. If that noise, which is in no way "normal", does turn out to be something requiring serious work you can find a used 4V out of an Aviator for cheap, or hell even rebuild this motor and still come out ahead with a 75,000 mile odometer.

The noise and vibration aren't normal, but you can't miss at that price. Snag it and send it! When she blows, repair or replace and you'll still be ahead. Whatever that noise is won't be an easy fix, so you might as well just buy the car, clean it up and run it. It is begging to be driven. Just please not in our northeastern winters.

I bought my Marauder with all these miles on it sight unseen and had it shipped to me from Vegas knowing that any part of it could be on borrowed time. But when you buy them right, you know the values can only go up from here, you can't lose, plus you'll have an awesome car to enjoy in the meantime. I too am a huge fan of the platform, and Marauders are going the way of the Impala SS, Caprice, Crown Vic, etc. pretty soon there won't be any left. DO IT.

[justbob]

Head ticks on these are plenty common. Mine had a small tick up until I had the heads refreshed when I upgraded the short block and my car was and still is over maintained.

I’ve heard injectors tick that loud that others misdiagnosed as valves.

I personally wouldn’t have an issue purchasing it and putting right on the road.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[SilverPhoenix]

Correct, I mean ideally I'd keep it. I've always been a fan of these cars/platform and it'd be nice to keep something like this that has more 'recognition' than my usual towncar. Wouldn't be a daily driver.
My goal was to see if anyone had or heard of a similar sound/symptom.
The timing chain would make sense to me if it was louder, or if there was other symptoms/noises. Again the sound is amplified in the video. If i closed the hood you'd barely be able to hear it unless you stuck your head in the wheel well or up to the hood. The thing runs like a champ on the highway , pulls great, no issues, doesn't skip a beat in any gear.

Literally, the only 'issue' i see is this little tapping sound and the vibration which in my opinion have to be related in some way and ONLY heard at idle. I just don't have enough experience with these 4V to know if it's normal valvetrain noise or not.

I agree with ya on if you can fix it and keep it running vs letting it became just another parts car. The fact that you can hammer it and it responds well seems to be a good sign. Good luck!

[Prospect62]

Head ticks may be common, but they certainly aren't normal. And that doesn't sound like a tick, it sounds like a knock. But what do I know. Either way I stick by everyone's sentiments here - buy it and drive it until something happens.

Oh, and here's my 306,000 mile Marauder at idle. Timing kit was done recently but as far as I know, it's still all original in the nether regions.

306,000 mile Marauder at idle - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuuuEFqvJ7c)

[klowpez]

I think I will do just that, maybe some fresh fluids and good gas will help too.
WOW 306k?!? That's awesome. Thanks for taking that video!

Not for nothing but just the responses on this forum make me feel better about jumping on this. I'll report back once the sale goes thru next week. Gonna slap some tires on it and see if I can't get a couple of weeks of driving before we get any snow here.
I'll try to post progress pics of the polishing this thing is going to get!

Thanks all.

[Fastbob]

Sounds like either a loose spark plug or a rod knock to me. Sounds too low pitched to be cam or injector related to my ears (I am listening to it on a 5.1 speaker system if that matters). Hard to diagnose over the internet. I WOULD buy it.

[Agent2006]

Sounds like either a loose spark plug or a rod knock to me. Sounds too low pitched to be cam or injector related to my ears (I am listening to it on a 5.1 speaker system if that matters). Hard to diagnose over the internet. I WOULD buy it.

X2 voting for rod knock...just listened to the video. Too low pitched and metallic to be much else...

[offroadkarter]

Reminds me of my old black 03 when I bought it which spun a rod bearing

(Video)

https://offroadkarter.smugmug.com/Cars-I-No-Longer-Own/2003-Mercury-Marauder/Pre-Purchase-Photos/i-6ZLDWCt/A

For "a couple grand" for a under 100k mile car it is 100% worth buying no matter if it needs an engine or not. Just keep an eye out for an aviator engine, swap over the necessary components then part out / scrap the stock engine. Thats what I ended up doing and my old car is still on the road today with another member on this site.