head removal?

[nj-marauder]

I have an '04 with 93,800 miles, original owner and the timing chain tensioner let go on the passenger side, made a god awful sound, it was so loud that my neighbor came over later and thought something exploded. The car would not restart after this.

Current situation, I pulled the rocker covers and the timing chain cover and yes I have confirmed that there is no plastic left on the top/inboard RH tensioner. I took my $10 borescope and looked inside each cylinder on the RH side and I saw no evidence of a valve strike, however.... if I turn the engine over by hand the engine binds when a piston comes to the top and the chain between the cams (RH) gets slack on the top while the bottom of the chain is taught. The left side both the top and bottom seem to be equally taught.

The tensioners on the LH side look normal.

I believe I am at a point were the head needs to come off and go to a machine shop to be repaired, the problem is looking through the service manual, the manual says the engine has to come out to remove the heads. Since removing the engine from the car is beyond my abilities and I don't have the equipment to do so I am looking to find out if it is possible to pull the head without pulling the engine?

Any suggestions or am I screwed and need to pull the engine?

Thanks
NJ

[blazen71]

I don't have an answer for you but the slack in the chain may be because the tensioners don't have oil pressure in them?

[justbob]

While not fun due to weight I removed my drivers head even with the header still attached but I haven’t had the need to do the passenger. I’m pretty sure it’s not an issue. The book says to remove engine because it’s no doubt an easier way.


Did you shut off the engine or did it shut itself down? When you say the car wouldn’t start do you mean it wouldn’t even crank?

Sounds like the ratcheting mechanism broke inside the tensioner and yes you would need a constant stream of oil pressure to even come close to keep it tensioned while running and no doubt it would always be trying to collapse.

I can’t see any valves being bent if you don’t see any signs of PTV carnage. The stock pistons would typically shatter like glass. Luckily for me I had just swapped to a Cobra short block a day prior to royally bending 5 new stainless valves and she walked away with a tiny scratch and perhaps a scuff on a couple of pistons, hardly even enough to see with the boroscope.. I even forced it just over a mile home with no rotating drivers intake cam, shattered tensioner and cam gear now residing in the oil pan, and dumping raw fuel out the drivers tail pipe.. New timing kit and 5 valves later like it never happened.

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[nj-marauder]

I did a lot more looking around last night and I can confirm that the chain did not jump any teeth but the tensioner on the RH was missing all of the plastic which I'm sure resulted in the awful racket and probably took the timing out just enough to make the car impossible to start. The engine would crank but kept coughing and spitting, sounded like it wanted to start but never did except once to which I immediately shut it down due to the noise.

I believe the resistance that I am feeling is normal and occurs every 1/4 turn of the engine coinciding with the intake valves on one bank opening while the exhaust on the other bank is opening. It is just a lot more resistance than I was expecting, then again when you are moving 8 valves at a time there is going to be resistance.

At this point I am going to proceed as if the only fault is the broken timing change guides and I'll replace them with new along with the tensioners and see what happens. The job is a lot bigger than I wanted to do but it doesn't seem insurmountable, just a lot of little steps to get to the final result.

The next issue is to see if I can actually get the oil pan out so I can clean out whatever mess was made by the plastic, although I believe I have almost all of it as the engine wasn't run very long when the tensioners broke I found a huge pile of long plastic pieces along side of the chain next to the crank gear along with a few pieces in the very front of the pan.

Anybody know if I just an engine hoist and if I disconnect the front engine mounts, can I get the engine up high enough to get the pan off or do I really have to drop the cross member?

Thanks!

[mustangeddie]

You can't get it up high enough to get the pan out.

[Mr. Man]

This thread might help:

https://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?102630-Parts-List-to-do-your-Timing-Chain-Guides-Tensioners

[azgolfrat]

Drop the cross member eh? :-)
Just did it. Tough job. Heavy item. It can be done though. The only other way to get the pan out is pull the engine.
I've done both , that is, pull the engine and remove the cross member to get the oil pan out. 50/50 on which way I would go if I had to get at that oil pan again.
If you go the cross member route, I can provide lots of info to hopefully make it go easier.

[Comin' in Hot]

Pull the engine, eventually those pieces could make their way into the pick-up tube screen and then your *****ed.

[daniel.drives]

If the top end of your motor is stock, you can pull the cowl plastic, remove the motor mount nuts, and lift the motor (I used some short bolts in the alternator mounting flange) enough to drop the oil pan enough to get in there and remove not only the bits of tensioner from the sump, but also to remove the oil pickup tube and clean the inlet screen. you get about 4.5 inches of clearance, the pan would need 5 to actually come out. I have done this, and while not particularly fun, it beats the alternatives with limited resources. You will need a cherry picker though.

[nj-marauder]

If the top end of your motor is stock, you can pull the cowl plastic, remove the motor mount nuts, and lift the motor (I used some short bolts in the alternator mounting flange) enough to drop the oil pan enough to get in there and remove not only the bits of tensioner from the sump, but also to remove the oil pickup tube and clean the inlet screen. you get about 4.5 inches of clearance, the pan would need 5 to actually come out. I have done this, and while not particularly fun, it beats the alternatives with limited resources. You will need a cherry picker though.


Engine is stock. This is the best piece of information I've heard. I'm assuming the pan will have to stay in the car but I can become a contortionist and somehow reach inside and remove the pickup tube? I'm also guessing I'll be able to slip a new pan gasket in and then re-attach the pickup tube?

Thanks!

[Comin' in Hot]

If you look at pics of the pan you’ll never get a good look inside the pan without removing the pan completely. Plus removing the pick-up tube will require a new o-ring, good luck finding the correct one, it’s not available from Ford and I wouldn’t use any generic one due to the heat/ chemicals it’s exposed to….. I hate to say it, but pull the engine for piece of mind, it will be way easier to replace the cam cover gaskets, and timing components.

[nj-marauder]

Are you saying that an aftermarket o-ring is not available either?

[Comin' in Hot]

I’m sure something is available, I just don’t know the specs.

[blazen71]

https://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/cart/index.php?main_page=product_in fo&cPath=4_9_48&products_id=405

[justbob]

I gambled when I bent my valves. I didn’t have the luxury of time nor the care with the Louisville meet just 3-4 days after I bent them. I lifted the engine to max, dropped the pan down and took my sweet ass time with mirrors, flashlights, magnets, mini shop vac attachments, a few cans of brake clean, and plenty of micro fiber towels. I was 100% confident. It wasn’t fun but definitely easy sitting in my comfy rolling seat under the lift. [emoji1303]


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[azgolfrat]

If you pull the engine you will have a much easier time getting everything right. I took out the kmember to replace my pan, and I got it done, but working on your back underneath the car, assuming you dont have a lift, is more difficult than with the engine out and up in the air/om a rotating stand.

[daniel.drives]

If you look at pics of the pan you’ll never get a good look inside the pan without removing the pan completely. Plus removing the pick-up tube will require a new o-ring, good luck finding the correct one, it’s not available from Ford and I wouldn’t use any generic one due to the heat/ chemicals it’s exposed to….. I hate to say it, but pull the engine for piece of mind, it will be way easier to replace the cam cover gaskets, and timing components.

Here's my setup. Make sure you jack the car up enough that you're comfortable underneath, you're gonna be there a while.

5219952200

Here's how much room you get:

52194

Here's what you can see immediately:

52195

Here's what you can see after about half a dozen rags:

52196

Here's what you can verify after you pull the chunks out:

52197

Here's what came out. The left pile is what was in the oil pickup screen, the right pile was floating in the pan:

52198

I haven't heard of single use orings, but if you want to replace it any Buna Nitrile o-ring of the same size should be fine. Even if you don't replace it (I didn't) I'd rather risk it with the oring than have 85% of the intake screen plugged with debris. To each their own. The car has been running fine in daily driver/occasionally flogged status since I did that job in March.

[daniel.drives]

... but I can become a contortionist and somehow reach inside and remove the pickup tube? I'm also guessing I'll be able to slip a new pan gasket in and then re-attach the pickup tube?

Thanks!

Worth noting that this car (165k) had all the plastic on the drivers side fixed guide missing, but still start, ran and drove. As soon as the owner heard the rattle he quit driving it until he brought it to me, under 2000rpm lol. I hope your damage is not more significant. On mine (187k) , the steel chain ate through the plastic surface, through the aluminum tensioner arm, and into the steel tensioner piston, didn't make noise when I left home that evening, couldn't miss it by the time I returned home. If your guide is somehow missing even more material, the cam sensor could be reporting an issue and the ecu could be not allowing it to start, but that's sourceless conjecture.

If you have limited wrist mobility or particularly thick hands, I'd recommend enlisting some child labor, but besides that you should be fine. Once the oil pan is dropped, at the front of the motor you'll see the two bolts that hold the pickup tube onto the oil pump, I'm almost certain there was a third for a brace somewhere towards the back. It takes some patience and possibly luck to get it out, but with enough rotation, wiggling, and jiggling, I was able to pull it out the front. Make sure to remove the oring before blasting the tube with the solvent of your choice, and dont forget to sit the new gasket into place before reinstalling the pickup tube. Good luck!

[nj-marauder]

After I got the timing guides and tensioners in and everything back together, the car started right up but.... It was making a slightly different loud rattling noise which was obviously one or more bent valves (plus whatever other damage). The timing chains never skipped any teeth, guess the plastic of the chain guide and possible tensioner caused the timing to be out just enough to bend a valve (or two, or three).

I shut the car down and I have since sold the car to another forum member for what we both believe was a fair price. (He's welcome to identify himself if he wants). I was not willing to go down the rabbit hole to repair the head, then add this or that while everything was apart.

Almost 18yrs with the car, the wife is bummed but time to move on.

Thanks for the info everybody

[massacre]

A leak down test would have identified those bent valves before disassembly. Bummer to hear you sold it.