Bad things happened last night

[svtmerc]

Coming back home from running a few errands last night, I got about 2 blocks from home and as I'm almost stopped at an intersection I hear a metallic sound which sounded like a skid plate on a truck dropping and hitting the ground (thats as best as i can describe it) the noise was a split second only... then as i went forward it made another more subtle noise and a noticable lack of power. I get the 2 blocks to my driveway and as I go to back it in it died and didn't want to crank back over. I did notice oil pressure looked like it was near zero. Coolant gauge read normal... never seemed to move up in the slightest. I just tried to start it and she fired right up showing a lityle over 50 psi oil pressure. A couple slight clicks in the engine for a second then sounded quiet.. but its been like that since I've been driving it.

I am guessing this was the infamous timing guides and a piece of plastic plugged the oil pickup.... any opinions?

Also any idea what part may have caused that initial metal noise?

Thanks guys

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[BAD MERC]

First thing I would take off the oil filter and cut it open. I have a cutter and will be in your neck o the woods Saturday morning. We gotta see what's in there and look at the oil.

[svtmerc]

I have an appointment in the early am Saturday, but will be home by 11 am

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[svtmerc]

I'll PM you my phone number

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[svtmerc]

Slight update... code readers show no codes and no pending codes nor any freeze frame data saved. Listening with a stethoscope tells me no noise under the timing cover but ticking under the valve covers, more on the drivers than the passengers. Idler pulleys and a/c pulleys are quiet, but the tensioner pulley doesn't sound good, not an audible noise but definitely noticeable with the stethoscope. Oil still shows 50 psi cold where as previously was 75 psi cold.

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[RubberCtyRauder]

Possible Cyl. 7 or 8 valve issue..there is a poor cooling passage and Cyl. 7,8 can run hotter and over time can get carbon build up, bend a valve..can do compression test on those and see

[Turbov6Bryan]

Belt tensioner fooled me once. Sound was loud af, pulled belt and noise went away

[svtmerc]

Yeah, but the tensioner wouldn't affect the oil pressure dropping, I think that the tensioner is just a coincidence, also as I said I only hear it with a mechanics stethoscope.

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[svtmerc]

Hopefully I can figure something tomorrow. I'll keep the group posted. Worst case scenario, I know where there are 3 Aviator engines.

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[svtmerc]

Well... Here are the results of taking the oil filter off.... I did put a new fl-820s on and started it up... Heard a knock for about 2-3 seconds and then quiet running.. and with a clean filter .. pressure went up to about 62 psi.... So I need ideas... My best guess right now is a crank bearing is gone and that the knock was a rod that had excessive clearance and then when oil got to it, it created enough of a barrier to quiet it down... But that excess clearance is causing the oil pressure drop. ... From others experience is this amount of material in the filter consistent with that hypothesis? The last 2 pics are of a blue Scott shop towel I used to strain the material out after thinning the oil with some gas.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220320/0f6f7db7bb2372ba6f7288ac713cdf b4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220320/9dcc9d640ce97ab02db8d0229a7174 9d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220320/6a1538876943fe81b726c9dad1692c 9f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220320/290b5fa8bb18c1153f5f9cfaf4e406 16.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220320/aa9b9e181c3bcfbd581f881a9ab613 f5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220320/782b9518d729e468a1aa78ca842434 63.jpg

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[justbob]

I’ve definitely seen way worse. If you spun a crank bearing you would definitely know. They don’t come back around.


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[svtmerc]

Tomorrow the cam covers and front cover will come off ... We'll see if it's got anything to do with the timing guides.


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[a_d_a_m]

Possible Cyl. 7 or 8 valve issue..there is a poor cooling passage and Cyl. 7,8 can run hotter and over time can get carbon build up Had this happen, sound did not match what O/P described. What happened in my case was not carbon build up but the valve seats dropped. YMMV of course; hope it's not too terribly expensive

[svtmerc]

So far I dont see anything that gives a clue.... cams in drivers side appear normal to me, and what I can see of the timing chain and guide seem fine. Oh and on a lighter note... The trunk organizer is doing a fine job organizing my parts...[emoji3]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/5f22a810620a3ed756da1113f95876 eb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/ee33e875b6edf64f94e3809a087a00 73.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/12f4b73b9c6b8a08af511166137d5e 67.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/6cecfbbff1c9a51289b2cfaba00ea6 fb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/04a703b54708d292a2d570fb4c4072 3e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/f86369d82a0b6a1066182206e0adea 15.jpg

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[svtmerc]

heres the pass side and front... I don't see anything but a couple small marks on a few pass side cam lobes.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/7f4753fa4423e5cfaf30d9008de331 ce.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/427dfb1f6d15627b6009ba23307488 da.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/202304361a4e05dae35c69234c9ed6 52.jpg

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[Prospect62]

I think you need to pull that driver's side head and check the valves on 7 & 8.

[svtmerc]

I think you need to pull that driver's side head and check the valves on 7 & 8.well I'm already pretty sure that the guides on 8 and possibly 4 are bad or at least on the way as there is noise under the rear of the cam covers, more on the drivers than the pass. but is present on both sides. Other than that, is there a reason to pull the head before the oil pump and oil pan?

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[daniel.drives]

That's strange. I was really expecting to see a lot of material missing from one or both timing chain guides, that would make the most sense to me with the changes in sound vs oil pressure and the amount of material in the filter. The amount of varnishing tells me someone was a little slow on oil changes during it's life, yours looks like mine did when I had it open at 188k, I've seen MUCH cleaner guts at 155k in a friends 4V. The wear on the cam lobes doesn't seem (to me at least) to be a red flag.

I'd be interested to know what's hanging out in the bottom of the oil pan/pickup tube. Assuming the oil pump goes through the filter before the rest of the engine, I'm curious if all the metal produced was small enough to get around the inlet screen and land in your filter, or if there's some larger chunks in the pickup. Please do keep posting the awesome pictures!

[mustangeddie]

Judging by what appears to be bearing material in the oil filter pictures I'm going to say it has a spun rod bearing & the crank is wrecked on that journal.

[svtmerc]

ok...so Cams locked, i removed the timing components.. the guides as you can see are the 2 bolt brackets. They appear original, but was under the impression that all ford ones were 3 bolt but the bosses for the 3rd bolt dont look like they've ever had anything bolted to them.... the guide material on the drivers side is wearing thin but otherwise still no signs of a problem. Oil pump is next...

My question is does the oil pan have to come off to remove the pump? It seems like I could possibly remove it but I don't think I could put both of the pickup tube bolts back in without removing the pan.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220325/c8e66693772065a2170b9759c84a8d df.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220325/a59013bb596e3fb80fe7abf361e642 c7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220325/3a73f072e38da00052a69ed4a0bf1a af.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220325/aa45d725dbe5c81168dfa855cdb96c 4a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220325/0ed3f1364fa26e4bd2917a2053f3ff e4.jpg

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[svtmerc]

here is all that was attached to the magnetic drain plug... there was plenty more of this thick metallic sludge in the bottom of the oil pan. Nothing was felt in the oil pickup and no actual chunks or visible debris in there either. Also as you can see... my drivers side cat toasted itself...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/fd797d9a9dbd7ec79bf1af21ae4108 5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/a7a14b7dd433badc90e030de09f823 38.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/660fa31d4d714f46b1afdd6e9aebdc 32.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/9024c29f3f2f94396e7c0cc7d630fa 3b.jpg

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[Prospect62]

This is all very interesting.

[svtmerc]

Well... heres the inside of the oil pan... [emoji22]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/dd76d728c0db5ac747da9d23658832 d2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/5bbb28c20572ff126224e89f64c56a 79.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/05d37b28f964ebbcd4ec5cb7a98173 bb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/30cd7c2720f45fa59c088f7a334a52 3c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220326/e8c5f25d48ace37914f79ecedb4b76 be.jpg

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[svtmerc]

Anyone in SW Florida got a beater for sale.... Looks like imma be down for a while...

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[babbage]

Amazing tear down pics - you make it look easy, especially the oil pan.

Just some random upgrade thoughts: Moroso drag or road race Oil pan (they fit MMs!) , Triangle Speed Shop Oil pump, Adjustable cam sprockets? then you could degree your cams...

Sorry about the damage, did you have the rear head cooling mod installed?
Looks like a ton of metal, thought I saw plastic bits from guides or somewhere on the shop towel picture.
Drivers side head, close to firewall, think it's 7 or 8 - can't remember, that may also be damaged.

With that much metal everything is now suspect to damage.


Good luck with the fix, looks like you know what your doing!

[svtmerc]

Just showing how high the engine is.... just over 2" above the motor mounts and even with the trans loosened from the crossmember theres not quite enough room to fully remove the oil pan. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220328/4b91bdc88c9a253b4d941cbbd05b1a 1e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220328/d2619fbaea2e30678a3beacaacc73e 21.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220328/4fff8b059306b8d148aed9f8d3c28a 7d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220328/754ed4fd58b42fb187c525d06d9a1f 9b.jpg

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[svtmerc]

I noticed the initials CMB and number 4006 was scribed on the passenger head. Anybody know why this would have been done? Like a techs initials indicating a recall was completed or something?

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220402/17a88c71f4b9f32b78184989ffb8d0 20.jpg

[svtmerc]

Here's all that I was able to fish out of the oil pan. That's a lot of both ferrous and non-ferrous material. Especially considering it was still running and providing oil pressure in the 60s and running quietly other than the valve guide noise in the rear of the heads. But until I can get it pulled out completely and disassembled I am guessing that it is bearing material and something steel or iron..... Crankshaft? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220402/f5153d7a7946fb68a44f30a4a9b150 e2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220402/4fa95b4d4d9e68989e3c9441618e02 44.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220402/64e1ab77151a9a0ecfc062617fb453 6c.jpg

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[Peace2Peep]

Wow..this is tough to see...an autopsy of sorts.. I am sending good thoughts and great rebuild prayers your way brother! Speaking of which, what does it cost to rebuild an engine as such?

[svtmerc]

Thats a good question... i guess that the cost is really gonna be determined once the engine is pulled out and dissected. From what I've seen a new crank is gonna be about $1500 iirc. And if I need a crank... then I might as well get it stroked and get a couple more inches out of it. I know for sure as of now I need timing guides and an oil pump since you can see scoring from the metal that passed through it. Regardless of whatever else is needed, it will also be getting head work at least new guides and seals at minimum along with the cooling mod and oil separator. While everything is out Im seriously considering rebuilding the trans as well and doing the j mod and forced tailshaft lube mod. Shes gonna be down for a minute.... but should be mechanically new.

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[svtmerc]

Still gonna be some time to pull my engine, swap parts as well as give the replacement a once over, but a big step was made today! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220515/5c36ca85e494067082001867bc8d54 c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220515/229fb9d43dfbb9bf885f415e7d407d 7c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220515/d1b92ae733efe2b17dcdbf21a1fbae ae.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220515/2acf373c87f81a548498bc69850ac0 9a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220515/943204eb8655c38c9a2154c7e5efd5 d0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220515/01cf9db31281f94502128074a3cfa7 f3.jpg

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[Joe Walsh]

I respect your efforts and perseverance in trying to get your 4.6 repaired and running properly!

Personally, I gave up on spending any time and money on 4.6 Modulars a lonnnnng time ago.
I once loved the 4.6 DOHC Modular, but realistically they are a fragile engine lacking at least 100 HP and 100 LB-FT of torque compared to any modern 5.0 Coyote.
If I still owned my Marauder, I would devote all my resources to procuring a Mustang or F150 Coyote 5.0 and the extra effort to making it run in a Marauder chassis.

The 5.0 Coyote is what Ford SHOULD have put into the Marauder.....if only it was available 10 years earlier.

:cry:

[svtmerc]

agreed, this will just get me up and running again... whatevers next remains up in the air... either rebuild and stroke the original, or work towards a 3rd gen coyote.

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