Any members with BFG KDW experience

[MMSuperFan]

I am considering switching to BFG's KDW New Tread for my first set of replacement tires. After considerable research, there aren't many choices and only one I can find that are exactly same size as OEM (BFG KDWS).

I am a little disappointed in the KDWS and am hoping for somewhat better mileage out of next set, BUT the KDWS has a treadwear rating of 400, the KDW NT only 300.

Any help out there for this question.

BTW sorry for a new tire thread but, I did not find any info on the KDW NT's anywhere on this site.

[BillyGman]

I haven't really heard of any members on this board getting real great mileage on any back tires they've used on their Marauders. I guess most of us drive our cars pretty hard, and therefore atleast the back tires will be burned up pretty quick. Why else would we have paid 4 or 5K more for a Marauder than it would've cost for a crown Vic w/the performance package? Sure the mag wheels and the exhuast tips on the Marauder look better too, but those parts can be purchased and installed on a Crown Vic.


But as far as those specific tires, I for one have never tried them, nor do I know of anyone here who has. if there is anyone, then hopefully they will speak up soon.

[duhtroll]

MMSuperfan - got a link for those tires? I would like to look at them too as I am considering lots of different options for when I will need tires this fall.

Thanks,
-A

[CRUZTAKER]

MMSuperfan - got a link for those tires? -A
Here is a link to an earlier thread regarding these tires. I wasn't sure the new KDW's were available yet in our SPECIFIC size. I need new rear tires soon, and am not particularly interested in sticking with what we have now, but still want to stay OEM size.

LINK (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9059&highlight=KDW+tires)

[joflewbyu2]

THIS IS WHAT 2003MARAUDER POSTED A WHILE BACK "Just traded in my 2003 for DTR 2004. Additional notes:
The '04 has the BGF tires but the tire K codes are DWS. D=dry;W=wet;S=snow. The '03 was just DW. Tread pattern is much different. Also, as stated in another post the DWS tires on the '04 are 35psi vs. 32psi on the '03. I kept my my Full size spare and trunk organizer as part of the deal."
2004 DTR Marauder/Previous 2003 Black Marauder. I like to see the pic of the spare kdw.

[MMSuperFan]

MMSuperfan - got a link for those tires? I would like to look at them too as I am considering lots of different options for when I will need tires this fall.

Thanks,
-A
Troll,

The best link for specs and full range of sizes is this one.

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/bfgapp/catalog/tires/gforcetakdw.jsp click on "Size and Specs" here.

Tirerack carries them but their link is not working for me today. Exact tire name can be found on the link above.

Note that the rear size will have to be 255/55/18, that is .43" taller, 28.61" 245/55/18 and 29.04" 255/55/18. a difference of 1.5% so not too bad. For the fronts they do make the OEM 235/50/18. This raises other questions about handling, i.e., oversteer/understeer, but it would not seem to be significant enough for a major change in handling.

Hope this helps.

[BillyGman]

Incase anyone is interested, here's a link to 2 pages of tires that can be had for our cars. I'm not sure if this online tire dealer has the tires in question here, but perhaps this might be of some help. I bought my P305 Nitto drag radials from this place, and I'm pleased w/their service, and w/the fact that they have free shipping. As far as a high mileage tire, that might be very tough to find in an 18" car tire. It seems that all the cars that have 18" wheels from the factory are very much performance oriented vehicles, and therefore the tire manufactures only offer mostly performance tires in the 18" size unless you're looking at light truck or SUV tires, which ofcourse have profiles that are too high to fit under the wheel wells of cars. I hope that this helps.......


http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/searchTiresBySize.do?sw=false&cs=245&ar=45&rd=18

[MMSuperFan]

Incase anyone is interested, here's a link to 2 pages of tires that can be had for our cars. I'm not sure if this online tire dealer has the tires in question here, but perhaps this might be of some help. I bought my P305 Nitto drag radials from this place, and I'm pleased w/their service, and w/the fact that they have free shipping. As far as a high mileage tire, that might be very tough to find in an 18" car tire. It seems that all the cars that have 18" wheels from the factory are very much performance oriented vehicles, and therefore the tire manufactures only offer mostly performance tires in the 18" size unless you're looking at light truck or SUV tires, which ofcourse have profiles that are too high to fit under the wheel wells of cars. I hope that this helps.......


http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/searchTiresBySize.do?sw=false&cs=245&ar=45&rd=18
Do you run the same size on all four corners or just 45's instead of 55's on the rear?

[gonzo50]

Here is a link to an earlier thread regarding these tires. I wasn't sure the new KDW's were available yet in our SPECIFIC size.
LINK (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9059&highlight=KDW+tires)
The tread pattern on these tires look like they're directional, so side to side rotation will be a problem, :confused: we can only rotate from side to side and the tread pattern would be facing the rear unless you have all four tires the same size, ;) then front to rear rotation would be the only way on the same side. :up:

[CRUZTAKER]

I was looking at these tires for REAR ONLY applications without ever rotating side to side.

I have a set of Pirelli 255-50's on the rear now...and considering the new KDW-2 as posted above comes in 255-55, not only would I gain the wider patch on the ground, I would retain the 28" heigth of the stockers which I am a tad short with on the Pirelli's.

Am I correct?....on my third martini...so give some room here...;)

BTW: The Pirellis I mention above are for track applications only and are worn nearly bald. My daily drivers are OEM 245-55's.

[MMSuperFan]

The tread pattern on these tires look like they're directional, so side to side rotation will be a problem, :confused: we can only rotate from side to side and the tread pattern would be facing the rear unless you have all four tires the same size, ;) then front to rear rotation would be the only way on the same side. :up:
I was told by a local tire technician that they were not directional, but who knows how much he really knows. I will ask BFG.

[MICA Racing]

My teammate/friend has the KDW's on his C4 Corvette, in the 'old' style pattern (more traditional looking) and has been pretty happy with them. If treadwear is a concern, though, I would stick with the KDWS - it's hard to find tires that can hold up to the power of the car (I know there's not a lot of wheelspin on launches, but there is still considerable force applied to the tire on acceleration/deceleration) and the major problem is the lateral loading against the tire with a 4300 pound car. I think the KDWS is a very good compromise between noise, performance in dry and inclement conditions, and treadwear. If it were my money, I would buy another set of KDWS's for the street, and use the extra money to buy a set of wider/widened wheels and a good set of Nitto or BFG DOT drag radials for track use. Barry has a post about Tire Rack having the rears on sale for $89 each - other 18" performance tires are considerably more expensive and don't last as long. I plan on buying a new set of factory wheels plus 2 widened rears - the set will have a very high performance set for taking people around the local road courses to show new drivers the proper line, and the widened rears will be for dragstrip use. Just my 2 cents, but for all around driving, stick with the KDWS.

[MMSuperFan]

I was looking at these tires for REAR ONLY applications without ever rotating side to side.

I have a set of Pirelli 255-50's on the rear now...and considering the new KDW-2 as posted above comes in 255-55, not only would I gain the wider patch on the ground, I would retain the 28" heigth of the stockers which I am a tad short with on the Pirelli's.

Am I correct?....on my third martini...so give some room here...;)

BTW: The Pirellis I mention above are for track applications only and are worn nearly bald. My daily drivers are OEM 245-55's.
245/55's are 28.61" tall, 255/55's are 29.04" so 1.5% gain in height. IMHO close enough for my daily driver purposes.

[BillyGman]

Do you run the same size on all four corners or just 45's instead of 55's on the rear?
When you opt for tires that are as wide as the ones that I have on the back (P305's), then you need to go w/45's instead of 55's. Remember that the profile # is merely a percentage of the tire width. Therefore a P305/45/18 tire, actually is taller than a P245/55/18 tire is. The stock P245/55/18 tire has aheight of 28.0" while my P305/45/18's have a height of 28.70"

So it's the tire "height" that you want to pay attention to since that will be an indication of the tire circumfrence. I know that on some online tire retailer's sites, all the specs to the tires they sell are available. Such as that one that I've provided a link to in my previous post. BTW, I know that there are some members here who have gone w/the P255's on all four corners w/out any problems and w/out seeting off the ABS brake light.

[MMSuperFan]

When you opt for tires that are as wide as the ones that I have on the back (P305's), then you need to go w/45's instead of 55's. Remember that the profile # is merely a percentage of the tire width. Therefore a P305/45/18 tire, actually is taller than a P245/55/18 tire is. The stock P245/55/18 tire has aheight of 28.0" while my P305/45/18's have a height of 28.70"

So it's the tire "height" that you want to pay attention to since that will be an indication of the tire circumfrence. I know that on some online tire retailer's sites, all the specs to the tires they sell are available. Such as that one that I've provided a link to in my previous post. BTW, I know that there are some members here who have gone w/the P255's on all four corners w/out any problems and w/out seeting off the ABS brake light.
Exactly, and thanks for clearing that up. Part of my original question was, do you think that going from 28.61" (245/55/18) to 29.04" (255/55/18) will have any adverse effects other than a speedo error of approximately 1.5%?

[BillyGman]

Exactly, and thanks for clearing that up. Part of my original question was, do you think that going from 28.61" (245/55/18) to 29.04" (255/55/18) will have any adverse effects other than a speedo error of approximately 1.5%?my guess would be yes, if you're going w/the P255/55's on the back while leaving the P235/50's in the front since that might be too much of a tire circumfrence difference between front and back, and might set off the ABS light. But going w/the P255's all around has been done by more than one member here (Sergnt MAC being one of them) and w/out problems.

[MICA Racing]

As far as rotating our tires, the best way to go is to sismount the tires and the put them on the opposite wheel. Believe it or not, racing slicks are directional once they have been scrubbed-in and cured. The scrub & cure process on the tires lets the tire heat up to optimum operating temp, then as it cools it sets; at this point the rubber matrix has moved into the direction the tire has been run, so once they have cured (initial complete heating and cooling cycle) they must be run in that direction; otherwise, whsn the heat up to operating temp the molecules move around again causing adverse handling characteristics and could cause the tire to lose it's balance and even go out-of-round depending on the tire. So when rotating our tires (which on the F2000's and many other racing cars are like our MM's - wider in the rear), we mark the direction of rotation, dismount the tires, and swap the LF & RF and the LR and RR. This way we can combat the wear effects of the extreme camber and toe run on the car, and still maintain the directional nature of the tire. This is how I plan to rotate mine until I go to a 245 or 255 size on all four corners. Note that if you make changes to your tire size you will have to adjust the suspension also. I won't be changing tire sizes until I can find a suspension system with enough adjustability to scale the car and give it a proper set-up - this is the only way to retain good handling characteristics when changing tire sizes. Remember that the tires are the only contact points between your car and the road, and even small changes in size or style can have big effects, either good or bad, on the handling of your car. The MM is an amazing car, especially for it's size, and the handling is a big part of what makes our cars true performance sedans and not just another car with a big motor shoehorned in.

[BillyGman]

I dunno Mike, I find it hard to believe that changing the tire height a mere half inch or so would require a suspension change. If that were true, then that would mean that cars that don't have a ride height leveling system in them like our Marauders do would handle terrible w/just one passenger in the back seat weighing 150 LBS. Furthermore what suspension change would possibly be available for a change in ride height of merely a half inch? You wouldn't be able to find coil springs that are only one half inch shorter, nor would you find or need shocks that are intended for a half inch shorter or taller ride height.

We're not talking about an Indy car here.

[MICA Racing]

Touche - road cars are set up to allow a much wider envelope than a race car, but the point was to not get too carried away with changes without evaluating the performance gain and any changes that might be necissary to the car to achieve the desired result. I don't plan on making a big enough change to the car to require coil-overs, which would allow for spring rate changes and ride height adjustments, which are cruicial to properly set up the car. The Ford engineers have spent a lot of time and money designing trhe suspension so we don't have to. But when I do switch to the 245 or 255 width tires all around, I will be making a slight change to the factory caster, camber and toe settings to compensate for the albeit slight change to the tires' size and characteristics. I guess I should point out, as you have, that most street driven cars can be modified in terms of the tires, wheels, suspension, etc. without having to worry too much about the changes I pointed out. But to take full advantage of any changes made, such as different size tire/wheel combinations or suspension mods, there can usually be further gains by properly adjusting the car to take advantage of the changes. The gains may be slight, but if they are there, I want to take full advantage of the money I spend on any mods. And being lucky enough to have access to all the equipment necessary to set up the car, as well as an amazing crew chief who knows suspension set up for any type of car in his sleep, I will be changing the setup to take advantage. I will post the seettings we use here whenever I get around to making the changes. But you are definitely right; for anyone who doesn't know suspension and would have to pay to have someone experiment with it, it simply would not be worth the time, effort, and money required to extract that last tenth. But if I don't do it, I'll always know it's there, and that would just bug the crap out of me.

[BillyGman]

Thanks for your mature attitude and reply Mike. I really didn't mean to lock horns w/you, so I'm glad that you didn't take my comments the wrong way. I just didn't want other members to think that there would neccessarily be a degradation or a problem w/the handling if they chose to go w/something like the P255's.


I do believe that your point about a change for the alignment settings is interesting though, since that's very likely needed for optimal control. How much of a change would be required? That I don't know. Perhaps you would know more about that issue than I do. Or perhaps alignment people would. I used to align front ends for a major tire installer, but I simply dealt w/factory stock alignment settings.

[joflewbyu2]

2003Marauder, how did your 03 MM handle with the "KDW" tires you claimed it had on it compared to the "KDWS" tires on your 04 MM and any other MM I have ever seen?

[sailsmen]

Mike to clarify for the MM you plan on rotating the tires by swapping the LF w/ the ????? :confused:

[woaface]

Look around at Michelin too, they might have some nice tires in similar sizes. They own BFGoodrich as I recall.

[MICA Racing]

I really didn't mean to lock horns w/you, so I'm glad that you didn't take my comments the wrong way.No problem, Billy - didn't seem like a personal shot at all.


I do believe that your point about a change for the alignment settings is interesting though, since that's very likely needed for optimal control. How much of a change would be required? That I don't know. Perhaps you would know more about that issue than I do. Or perhaps alignment people would. I used to align front ends for a major tire installer, but I simply dealt w/factory stock alignment settings.I don't think the alignment changes required to optimize the setup of any tire/wheel/suspension changes would be too much different. It will take a little trial & error running the car on the road and around a road course to get some readings, but I would guess maybe a few tenths of a degree on the camber side and maybe a slight change to the toe settings. Juergen would be able to answer that a lot better than I. He just hit me a lot until I could tell him what the car was doing, then I watched what he did and learned a little about what changes were making the car behave in what way. I think he could improve on the factory settings even, and still find gains in both performance and tire wear. He made changes to BMW's factory settings on a 540i a friend of ours was driving, and he noticed better wear and some performance gain from the change. Hopefully I'll get to play with the settings in the next month or two, and I'll definitely keep everyone posted if we find any gains, and what the settings are so that a good alignment shop can hook everyone up a little better.

[MICA Racing]

Mike to clarify for the MM you plan on rotating the tires by swapping the LF w/ the ????? :confused:
I would do the following:
1) Dismount the 4 tires after marking them properly.
2) Put the tire that was on the LF wheel on the RF wheel, and vice versa.
3) Put the tire that was on the LR wheel on the RR wheel, and vice versa.

The reason for this would be that if you keep the tires rotating in the same direction, then what was the inside of the tire on the LF will now be the outside of the tire on the RF, and vice versa all around the car. This allows you to minimze uneven wear caused by camber and toe, as well as hard-driving habits.

[BillyGman]

keep the tires rotating in the same direction, then what was the inside of the tire on the LF will now be the outside of the tire on the RF, and vice versa all around the car. This allows you to minimze uneven wear caused by camber and toe, as well as hard-driving habits.
That sounds like a good idea to me. Especially for the front tires. Thanks Mike. :up:

[MICA Racing]

Just glad to help - I've learned way too much here to not give something back!

[BillyGman]

Just glad to help - I've learned way too much here to not give something back!Yep, that's how I feel too......

U have learned too much not to give back! :D

Okay, just kidding....seriously though, I feel like I'm in the same boat as you as far as that goes. I simply try to put back in this board what I've gotten out of it.

[cyclone03]

I would do the following:
1) Dismount the 4 tires after marking them properly.
2) Put the tire that was on the LF wheel on the RF wheel, and vice versa.
3) Put the tire that was on the LR wheel on the RR wheel, and vice versa.

The reason for this would be that if you keep the tires rotating in the same direction, then what was the inside of the tire on the LF will now be the outside of the tire on the RF, and vice versa all around the car. This allows you to minimze uneven wear caused by camber and toe, as well as hard-driving habits.


Good plan UNLESS you are running the stock tires.
On the side wall it says MOUNT THIS SIDE OUT.
So with that just unbolt,roll the tire to the other side then remount.

[Ken]

I had a set of BFG KDW's on my wife's 98 SVT Contour, got about 38,000 miles wear out of them, before a bubble developed on the inside rear, and rubbed the rear shock. It was about time for new tires anyways, but we had noticed a lot of road noise, the faster she went, the louder it became. Read the reviews on Tirerack.com. Its noticeable after 15 or 20,000 miles, as the tires wear. A new set of FULDA Extremo tires, and no more noise.

Ken

[MENINBLK]

I would do the following:
1) Dismount the 4 tires after marking them properly.
2) Put the tire that was on the LF wheel on the RF wheel, and vice versa.
3) Put the tire that was on the LR wheel on the RR wheel, and vice versa.

The reason for this would be that if you keep the tires rotating in the same direction, then what was the inside of the tire on the LF will now be the outside of the tire on the RF, and vice versa all around the car. This allows you to minimze uneven wear caused by camber and toe, as well as hard-driving habits.

You can't do this with the KDWS.
They have an INSIDE and an OUTSIDE.
If you mount them INSIDE -> OUTSIDE the sidewalls will be reversed.
You can rotate them Left to Right to Left but not Front to Back to Front.

[sailsmen]

I would do the following:
1) Dismount the 4 tires after marking them properly.
2) Put the tire that was on the LF wheel on the RF wheel, and vice versa.
3) Put the tire that was on the LR wheel on the RR wheel, and vice versa.

The reason for this would be that if you keep the tires rotating in the same direction, then what was the inside of the tire on the LF will now be the outside of the tire on the RF, and vice versa all around the car. This allows you to minimze uneven wear caused by camber and toe, as well as hard-driving habits.

Thanks, Now I understand why you dismount the tire from teh wheel and remount to obtain the same rotation when mounted on the other side of the vehicle.

[MMSuperFan]

255/55/18 rears and 235/50/18 fronts

Great ride and traction is incredible.

Incidentally, no ABS problem for those who were wondering.

I like the look too!!

[Marauderman]

255/55/18 rears and 235/50/18 fronts

Great ride and traction is incredible.

Incidentally, no ABS problem for those who were wondering.

I like the look too!!
I just bought the "sale" rear OEM's for a "just in case" at the sale price of $89 but more for the reason that down here the new threads were not to be available till 3QT sometime--late---guess their out earilier in different parts of the country--I'm planning on these for my rear but I at least have the addition set of tires as well-couldn't pass up the sale price--now to get more rims--maybe even wider ones---hummm....Thanks--glad to know the new rubber is finally out..gotta love that new design!!!!!...........Tom

[Marc]

I finally broke down and ordered new tires last night. I got all of 14,000 miles out of the OEM's and am embarrassed to say that the fronts have cords showing through. I got so busy at work over the last month that it completely slipped my mind that I meant to get new ones by July 1. An oil change guy admonished me - deservedly so.

The good news is that I went to a Sears place (the only place close to me that sells BFG's) and they stated that they would match any price. I got the fronts for $104, and they wanted to sell the rears for the same until I told them that Tire Rack was offering $84. I somehow forgot to mention that Tire Rack was selling the fronts for $125.

I was never happy with these tires, but I see no alternative.

[2005Marauder]

With the KDW tires I had 20,000 miles on the '03 when I traded. One month before I traded, I posted that the tread depth about 7/32s of an inch. I'd say about 40% of the miles were highway. My '03 was made in June of '02.

I have never looked at the spare tire to see if it was KDW or a KDWS. Anyway, I think the spare is a front tire. I've never taken it out except when we traded cars and the dealer did that for me. I'll take a look at it tonight.