69-70 Muscle Cars.

[JAL]

Ok Sarge you called me out...now put up your dukes! :D

Seriously though, my opinion is the 1970 GTO Judge. Looks, power, size, sound...

Sooner or later one will be in my sig.

Gentleman, start your opinions!!!


Jeff

[RF Overlord]

1969 Impala SS 427 4-speed Convertible...prettiest car ever.

[2003_MM_FYRE49]

I had a 1970 Olds 442, wish I still did, still the fastest car I ever drove that was stock out of the box. Oh well maybe someday in the future I'll have another one

[Directedby]

I still have my first car - 1969 Mustang Mach 1.

10:5:1, Tri-Y headers, cobra Shelby cam, NOS, MSD, Offy intake, Art Carr Torque Convertor, 3:73 gears, oil cooler, tranny cooler, braided hoses.

Boy, when I was 17 could I blow money!

13.2 1/4 mile.

[Directedby]

Here's a picture of the beast.

:uzi: :nono:

[JAL]

Great looking Mach 1!

Gotta love those fire breaks in the background. :D

Jeff

[Directedby]

Thanks Jeff.

Behind the KC covers are aircraft landing lights.

[JohnnyB]

1970 Chevelle 454.......

[seabreeze]

69 Dodge Dart GTS - sold in 1983

(What a sleeper!)

[Logan]

My Clevor powered 69 Cougar...

http://www.logansgarage.com/xr7/logan_640.jpg
http://www.logansgarage.com/xr7/2002cover.jpg

More at http://www.logansgarage.com/xr7

[JAL]

Sweet Jesus! :D

Jeff

[ERBM]

Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Mine is the 69 ss396. Need help adding an picture.

[LincMercLover]

Now was THAT appropriate Logan?

LOL, you're right... WHO CARES! :D

Fastest car: 1970 Cuda AAR
Fastest and best looking: 1967 Shelby GT500
Long and Low: 1966 Lincoln (Oh wait, I got me one of those! :D )

[grzellmer]

RF, check out my recently sold (Sniffle) 69 427 Caprice (Hope the attachment works)
Logan, thats cheatin man
:D

[WolfeBros]

Logan's Cougar......... and Kittens of course !! :D :D :D

[smith5365]

All friends of your wife's, right Logan?

[Geo]

I like these:

1970 Shelby Mustang Cobra GT500 convertible (left over 69s that Shelby re-VINed as 1970; added hood stripes and chin spolier).

1970 Chevrolet Camaro SS (carried over 1969 cars before the 701/2 model)

1970 Dodge Charger R/T SE 440 long-throw pistol grip

1970 Dodge Challenger 440 short throw pistol-grip

1970 Plymouth Roadrunner Superbird 426 Hemi

1971 Plymouth Roadrunner (with all the stickers and exterior accessories)

1971 Plymouth Hemi 'Cuda -plum crazy purple

1971 Dodge Charger R/T -green with black sides

GEO

[SergntMac]

I respect your opinion, Jeff, and others posted here as well.

If you didn't own a copy of the car you support here, you're not playing this thread fair. Jeeze...talk about walking into an ambush!

I owned a 1969 Camaro, raced it in the streets of Chicago. Came to be a trailer car at a later time, wholly illegal on the street and under NHRA rules, but that's not my point here. I'm talking about what the factory provided us with at the POS.

My position is that Chevrolet, 1968 to 1970, gave us real race cars with raw horsepower for our dollars, and I don't think there is much to argue about on that. I started with a '69 SS/RS, 396/375, Muncie 220, 4:56 I bought from Nicky Chevrolet, September of '68. It replaced my '68 Camaro RS, a 350/300/4Spd., that had been well used as a teacher of many principles. The Camaro was just under 3100.00 delivered, and my Chevelle came in touch higher in July of '69, at 3400.00, but it was the "power couch" version of muscle. The Camaro was the winner.

My goal back then, was to race a car that could win money on the streets. I started out with the factory power train and I guess I did okay with just some light tinkering, because I paid for the car, and later, half of it's trailer, before the factory stuff caved in. I continued to build this car far beyond it's expectations, but more about that later. BTW, "tinkering" means playing with, or switching out anything outside the motor, trans and rear end.

Lots of muscle for the money, Chevy did so well around here, I got laid more than raced, and money making came down to shows, jumping pop bottles, a "bow-tie only" sport for sure, through 1970.

I've seen a few 64-68 Chrysler Hemi cars make good, and one Shelby 500 that was a real sleeper, but no Judge or anything Buick ever pulled up to the line. Like my Chevelle, they were just too heavy. Cars designed and owned to get a lady's attention with paint and trim, some HP, neat pipes, 8-tracks, and other cool features. Never, ever saw one turn slicks, before or after the wrenches did their thing.

You want to love one of beauties from way back then, I agree, beautiful sports machines and sporty they were. Were they as fast as you want them to be today? No, but go ahead and remember as you wish.

Be honest now. The famous aftermarket shops of those days that produced Yenkos and Baldwins, never invited any Pontiac or Buick to a mauling. By the time the Judge came out, it was over. Just another butchy car, named after a comedy skit on television's "Laugh-In," lasting how many years? The Beach Boys GTO was a memory, and the Judge, was a marketing scheme more that a contender. The "finest muscle car ever" you say? I don't think so. All the Judge did, was introduce us all to the paint/trim way to look at things callled muscle. Ditto the Stage 1 GSS Skylark. By the summer of 1971, all things muscle out of Detroit were looks, nothing more. Once I saw the General's "Heavy Chevy" in '72 and "Rally Nova," in '73 I knew it was all over, and I walked away.

I know this will probably p*ss some of you off, but this is what I remember about the real muscle cars of America, and why I love my MM so much today. Don't mean anything personal, towards anyone, it's all just IMHO.

[SSMOKEM]

Hey SergntMac,

I agree 100%. I had a 1968 Impala with the 427/425hp L72 and the M22 Muncie. As big and heavy as it was, GTOs, Roadrunners, Mustangs, most Camaros, 442s couldn't touch it. Used to run Woodward avenue in Detroit in those days.

My nemesis was a certain Plymouth Satellite with the 426 Hemi........

Thank God I had a 25 gall fuel tank, and only lived 10 miles from work, because the 7mpg didn't get me far :)

[Racerx88]

1972 Buick GS Stage 1........... Boy do I miss that car!
<img src=http://home.att.net/~racerx88/gallery/72gs3.jpg>

[Larry Vogel]

The Silver Bullet is still up here and running, still looks the same but with a different owner. I was running my 63 Marauder on Woodward back then and later in the 70's was running a 70 SCJ Torino. While not much of a street racer, I prefer the strip, that Torino ran an 11:99 with slicks, and was a load of fun.

[Logan]

Linc, What? It's not like they're nude or something... :)

...and ummm yeah, they're all good friends of mine, they hang out at my place every night feeding me strawberries with whipped cream. Sigh... :)

[MAD-3R]

Well, The oldest car I have ever owned was a 76 Monte Carlo. Yeah, I know not in tha same class, but that was the reason behind my purchase of the Marauder.

I owned a Ford Festiva, and when it got totaled, I took the insurance money and was looking for something a bit beefyer. A friend of mine (color blind) told me of a car up in Front Royal that was for sale at a friend of his's lot. Told me it was poop brown with a white vynal top. I got a ride up there, and was searching the lot for this car, and the only thing with a white top I saw was the God Awful Green Monte Carlo. I talked to the Dealer, and yep thats the car. My friend can't see green, and thought it was brown. ( he was stuned when we told him the UPS truck actually WERE the color he saw) We purchased the car, and after a nice ride home, I was hooked on V8 American Iron. I dubbud it "The Martian War Machine" And I missed it so much had to trade it in when the breaks failed and had to be thrown into park to stop it. The car failed emisions inspetion due to the open air breather on the 4 barrel, and the enlarged fuel pipe. :)

My wife, who grew up driving these cars as daily drivers (shes only 30) wants one for her "fun" car. She just hasn't made up her mind yet. We've been looking for something in ok shape that she and I can customize /restore, once we have a garage built. She has been eyeing a 71 Monte Carlo SS. A real stealth car that one. Love the lines on them.

Sorry for the rambleing.

[SergntMac]

"Sorry for the rambleing."

Happens to me all the time, Mad...

[Wags]

Well, in my opinion, the absolute king of the hill was the 1970 LS6 Chevelle. The LS6 was the highest rated engine (450hp) that you could order from the factory. I can't believe that Chevy has designated their new engine the LS6. There can be only one LS6, and that is the 1970 one. But, the 502 that I built for my '55 project will be nice also. (It dynoed at 587hp). My '68 Chevelle aint bad either, but it can't beat the 1970 LS6.

Wags

[cyclone03]

:banana: :banana: :banana:
Hey Logan,
Did you say CLEAVAGE powered?:cool4:

[O's Fan Rich]

Wow, tough one. You had all sorts of choices back then. But, I'd have to choose the 70 Buick GS Stage 1.
What I would have bought , if I wasn't just 8 years old, would have been the 442 W-30 'vert, 4 spd of course!!

[LincMercLover]

Hey Logan, I'd gladly give ya a break from your oh so hard life, that is if you REALLY need it. ;)

[ERBM]

I'm trying this again hopefully the picture shows:http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/media/5/grnmachine_2.jpg

Edited by Logan to correct image inclusion

[RF Overlord]

Rich and racerx:

Thanks for the Buick support...these were VERY underrated cars and there aren't many left. Mine may not be a Stage 1, but I like it just the same...

[O's Fan Rich]

When my Grandmom died she left me a 73 Le Sabre with a 350 4bl. it only had 60k on it so I was going to restore ir as a family cruiser. The cost was too much for me back then. So i yanked the 350, did the oil pump mods. advanced the cam 4 degrees withe a T/C setup and put it in my 79 Cutlass. With the 3:73 posi and the hard hitting TH350 in it, that SOB freakin' flew!!! I had a dual exhaust set up from a 70 Gs order right out of the exhaust catalog. All the hangers and brackets fit like factory! (I looked up the parts myself so I was 100% sure they would!! I was a very good parts guy then. The toughest part was keeping traction!!!
I'd LOVE an 87-88 GN......oooohhhhh yeeeeahhh!!

[RF Overlord]

The Grand National was the last good car Buick ever built... :depress:

[SergntMac]

I love it when the stories come out over the one liners.

Rich and RF, you're absolutely right The GN was a car with the spirit our MMs have! No matter how you look at it, the GN is a winner. Came one way, I think the sunroof was the only option. A veryfast factory race car.

I remember reading how the DEA and Customs split the bill on 50 Gns for drug work. Interesting concept, once they figured out how to hide an all black car in Florida...

[O's Fan Rich]

I had a nice "sprint" with an 87 GN following behind. The fella driving the Buick looked my age and the car looked well maintained. I could see him checking the MM out in my rearveiw and decided to show him a little sumpthin'. I do believe he was impressed with the above 85 acceleration. We exchanged pleasant manly type waves when we seperated.

[cyclone03]

"We exchanged pleasant manly type waves when we seperated."
This reminds me of the Boxter adds.
I think those who know,understand.

[cyclone03]

BTW the car that has been built in my head is a near copy of my first car,which was a 1967 Mustang.The changes would be I want a 68 fastback(mine was a coupe)An FE big block,with modern heads(mine was a CJ) and around 500ci.6spd trans(4spd)4 wheel discs(all drums).you get the idea.
And.........
Stock restored interior.
with AC because I'm older now.:help:

[Moparzz]

Hey Geo, I'm with you. That list of Mopars looked real good, although I'm not a big fan of the 71 styling changes. I would put any 66-71 Mopar Hemi car up against anything that has been mentioned in this thread so far. Let the flames begin!!! :flamer:

[JAL]

Hey Sarge,

I never said you had to own the car. Just opinions on everyone's favorites. That's all.

One day though...

Jeff

[Moparzz]

Hey Sarge,

You being a long time resident of the windy city, I was wondering if you ever made a visit to Grand Spaulding Dodge, owned by Mr. Norm who was famous for super tuning his cars before they were delivered. He also did some of his own mods which are now famous and very desirable. Like a 69 Dart GTS with a 440 stuffed under the hood. I know that the dealership is long gone, but there is still a Mr. Norms club for owners and appreciaters of the cars that he sold.

[ERBM]

Thanks for the help Logan. Ernest

[gja]

Ok, when I was young.....
1974 Monte Carlo SS
BLACK with anodized gold accents

454 bored 60 over
4 bolt mains
Crane Hi-lift cam
Roller rockers
Victor Ram 2-R w/twin 750CFM Holley center-pumps
TRW forged pistons-fully floated
Stainless valves
MSD ignition system
Ladder bars
Full posi rear w/4.33's
Centerlines with MR15-50 BFG-TA
B&M trany with tri-stick gate shifter

Biggest Problem was keeping the fuel cell from running dry.
0-60 in 4.0 0-100 in 10.5 1/4 in 12.7

I loved that car.....and it loved gas,oil and tires....

[SergntMac]

Did I visit Mr. Norm's? Why yes, I did. Five days a week, sometimes seven. I worked for Norm as his New Car Prep manager, and filled in as a gopher on Gary Dyer's team when the car went on the road. Despite the powerful influence Norm threw around in the street racing community in those days, when it was time for me to get serious, I spent my money with the General. Norm didn't like that very much, but he was fair minded about it. Summer of '70, I moved on to GMHQ in Broadview as a warranty auditor, the proverbial "factory rep" dude. Nice job, but not easy. Most people waiting for the rep to come look at their problem, didn't expect to meet someone as young as me.

I remember the 440 Dart being called the GSS, it was Norm's creation with factory support, and once it became a production car, it was re-named the GTS. I'm probably wrong, it was long ago, but that was one scarry ride. I see you had at GTS, must have been hard to let her go.

[Moparzz]

Sarge, you are my hero. I never read anything about you being a Grand Spaulding employee, but then again this is a Mercury page, not a Mopar page. I have met Mr. Norm at the All Chrysler Nationals at Carlisle. He's still a personable character. I didn't own a GTS, but I have a friend that does, and you are absolutely correct about the GSS, infact on the emblem the middle S was done in red to stand out. The last hot little Mopar I owned was a 70 Duster 340 that had been mildly tuned, but what made it stand out from the rest was that it was the factory Panther Pink (Plymouth called it Moulin Rouge but nobody remembers that). It was in about a dozen magazines and several hard-cover picture books on muscle cars. I let it go about a year and a half ago as it was getting to the stage of needing the paint and body work done again to keep it up to show standards. I'm not in that class of car ownership

The Marauder is going to be my holdover car until Dodge gets the new Charger into production (if ever).:coolman:

[SergntMac]

I'm sorry to say that I dropped out of the performance car market in '72 and walked away from the confusion. I've always felt an attraction to return, and re-visit, the excitement and thrills of it all, but did not pursue that.

Other cars I've owned over the years include a '63 Chrysler 300 50th Annv., 383/4sp., a '65 Coronet 500 426 Street Wedge/4sp., and a '70 Duster 340/4sp. too. All exciting automobiles with their own personalities, which strongly contribite to my feelings about my MM today. Seeking the gut wrenching fear filled fight of man over machine-beast, it just wasn't there anymore. I tried once more in '86, and built a '79 Camaro 350/4sp., and came to shrug it all off one more time.

None of it felt right anymore, I suppose those days of heady torque with no limits, were gone forever.

If some here knew more of the older iron, they would feel the same way. The big cars, the real Impalas, Coronets, Satelites, Galaxies, and Catalinas, helped us develop the power of the big motors. Once we stuck those large motors into tiny cars, all bets were off.

This MM may have come from the opposite direction, but it's still another winner in the history book of muscle cars, and without the gaudy make-up. It's got what I've been looking for, and I've found that now.

IMHO...

Nice to meet ya Bobby J.

[kashvili]

here's my 72 chevelle....

[hrtn_monky]

My favorite car?
1968 Mach 1

Fair weather car I own?
68 Mustang drop top (pic attached)



Previous "muscle cars" I've owned
71 Chevelle 402 (missed the most)
69 Dodge Coronet 500
72 Olds Cutlass

[hrtn_monky]

Sorry, 1969 Mach 1 ..... is favorite.

[kashvili]

how do you upload photos?

[Directedby]

No such thing as a 1968 Mach 1.

First year for the Mach 1 was 1969.

[Geo]

Sergnt Mac:

Being that you were a Chevy man. What's your take on the 94-96 Impala SSs? I would enjoy the opinion of someome who was connected at Grand Spaulding Dodge.

[SergntMac]

Sorry to say that I had only a warm perception of the Impala SS when it was released. At that time, I was thrilled with my issued Caprice cruiser of competent performance, and didn't see the Impala SS as much different. Most of the people who bought them around here, had no intent to exploit the car's performance over it's looks. We did chase them down on a regular basis, but that has little to do with Impala SS performance.

I did like the look, a muted, brutness of an Indiana Jones coiled whip that is more threatening relaxed. As more colors followed, I found it a very atractive car, but I still had my issued Caprice, and my personal car was then a '92 CV/LX Sport, in Johnny Cash trim, of course. I did not react to the Impala SS debut as I have to the MM, but TBPHWY, I had been driving Mountaineers since '96, and I was power starved on my test drive. She's kept her promise, and promises more.

I've said it before, the Buick GN, Impala SS and MM share one important trait...Balls. It was a ballsy move by the factories involved to produce these remarkable vehicles when they did. The cars themselves, are warriors in their own right. It is fitting of that honor that the three never compete against, or, come to be compared against each other. All three hold top honors, of their era.

[mrmark]

my favorite choices?

Not all 69-71 muscle but the best none the less

1. 1963 Ford Thunderbolt (I think 1963)
2. 1970 Dodge Hemi Charger R/T with 4 speed
3. 1970 Buick Stage 1 with 4 speed
4. 1987 Buick GNX
5. 1989 Pontiac Turbo T/A (most underrated car GM ever built)
6. 2003 BMW M5 with manual tranny
7. 2003 MM Blue with Flint Interior (My current Ride)
8. Everything else

Just my .02
Mark

[TAF]

Mark,

I'm in CLT next Monday night and Tuesday and would really like to see your car. Let me know...

[hrtn_monky]

directed,
I noticed the typo when I hit the submit button,
hence the second post

Love your car.. just doesn't get any better than that....:-)