Oil Changes

[Dan]

I spoke with an off duty Ford mechanic today who informed me that Ford air filters are designed to hold oil pressure even with the car off and for extended periods.

I checked with him on the price of an oil change at his shop and it was very reasonable. They even have a quick change line.

He also noted to me that these engines are very fussy about their oil and that use of the wrong oil can causing pining in them when they are warming up. That seemed odd to me but I guess oil is like blood to a car so I can imagine it could be important. Besides that, the guy did not seem like he was just trying to sell me on a Ford oil change.

Considering that I want to leverage the OASIS report on my car down the road I think that the FoMoCo oil change is a better value.

On a side note (for the CT Marauderers) I asked the guy how they handle cars that have been chipped and modded in other ways. He said that they routinely will peform warranty work on the car provided that the mod did not affect the broken part but he then went on to tell me about a guy with a NOS'd truck that blew to pistons and they let him yank the NOS system and still sent it in for warrany review.

I won't post the dealer name here since that might blow a good thing if Big Blue Oval is reading this but if one of you CT guys want to know which dealer just PM me.

Best,

Dan

[jgc61sr2002]

Dan - You can't go wrong with the factory recommended oil. Just have it changed every 3,000 miles. Where is RF?

[the_pack_rat]

My take on who should do an oil change -

Used vehicles out of warranty - doesn't matter.

Late model used vehciles still under warranty - take it to the dealer.

A new vehicle you yourself purchased ...

Let a DEALER do all the oil changes.

This is how I treated the Mountaineer I bought new. If for some reason the engine should have self-destructed one day ... proper oil changes would have been the LAST excuse they could have used in trying to weasel out of a warranty claim.

On NEW engines ... I like doing the 1st oil change @ 1K miles - 2nd @ 2500 - 3rd @ 5K - then every 3K thereafter.

Bought my wifes Toyota w/18K miles on it ... & it's still under the 5/60 factory powertrain warranty. 30K on it now ... it goes to the Toyota dealer every 3K for an oil change. Oil changes are VERY important to the healthy life of ANY engine ... but they are VERY crucial to the life of a Toyota 3.0 V6. They are notorious for getting sludged up if not maintained properrly.

I like the peace of mind of doing oil changes on warrantied vehicles at dealers of the vehicles manufacturer(FoMoCo - at FoMoCo dealer - Toyota at Toyota etc etc.). Kind of tough for anyone to question receipts/records from legit dealerships - question whether the right viscosity of oil was used - question whether the quality of the oil is up to snuff - etc etc.

Eric

[TripleTransAm]

I spoke with an off duty Ford mechanic today who informed me that Ford air filters are designed to hold oil pressure even with the car off and for extended periods.


Cool. I wonder if their oil filters are as good. ;)

This dealer you speak of is REALLY going out on a limb! I imagine that if some savvy engineer was to survey the damage he/she/it might catch on that something very aftermarket happened to the engine to make it munch two pistons like that (unless the failure really looked like it was a defect and not due to the mods).

I agree it's a good thing to give the dealer some oil change business (which is one of the few things that a dealer won't have to charge back to the parent company and as such is probably more profitable service work). For one, it sets up a good relationship (businesses tend to get happier when customers spend money there) and it leaves a good paper trail of your car's history. In my case, I think my dealer would go to bat for me even though I only get an oil change done there every 2-3 changes (I do most of them at home)... I think they understand how I maintain my vehicle.

I still insist on being present as much of the time as I possibly can, while my car is being worked on. There are really only 1 or 2 technicians that I want doing the complicated work on my car, but I can't really insist they do something as trivial as an oil change (unless they're already in the vicinity). The one 5 minute interval I didn't keep a close eye on my car while it was being worked on by a junior monkey, the car exited the bay with the front tires on the rear and vice versa. :nono:

Dealers like the one you speak of are a Godsend to the auto enthusiast, and should be encouraged.


ps: Please, no one get offended by my reference to "junior monkey". I know it is a derogatory term for your general shop mechanic, but for me it is all about attitude. When I explained (in the utmost politeness) that the tires shouldn't have been rotated front to back, he argued rather rudely that I was wrong and when we (myself, him and service writer) went to the car and I pointed out the size differences, he just kind of shrugged and dryly said "huh... yeah, I guess they're different. I didn't bother checking" and it actually ended up being the service writer that did the re-rotation while the monkey was on break. :eek:

[BillyGman]

I have a good idea of who the dealer is that Dan's speaking of, and if it is that same one, the good thing is that the service manager is a racer himself. I'm not going to say where he races for the same reasons that Dan has chosen discretion. But I know exactly where the man races, and I've seen his race cars (No Joke). The guy also told me the same thing about modifications. His mechanics are questionable though.


However, he's the best service manager that any of us could hope for because of his interests and hobbies. He told me that he would honor warantees on modified cars unless the car in question rolls into the dealer garage w/a roll cage, and numbers on the window. I laughed at that when he said it, and he said "Hey, don't laugh. I had a guy bring his car in like that expecting warantee work, and I told him to hit the bricks".....

[mpearce]

From Dan - (He also noted to me that these engines are very fussy about their oil and that use of the wrong oil can causing pining in them when they are warming up. That seemed odd to me but I guess oil is like blood to a car so I can imagine it could be important.)



I went in for an oil change yesterday 2000mi - and the first thing the service tech said to me what that I didn't need to do an oil change on the Marauder until at least 5000 miles. I told him no, change it...and he did, for a reasonable price. So if we use Mobil 1 in our engines it's not a good thing? I know a lot of people on here use synthetic oil...will there be future problems with this?

I know, I know...another "oil" thread. RF will sniff this one out soon enough...I'm sure!

-Mat

[Dan]

I'm not going to say where he races for the same reasons that Dan has chosen discretion. But I know exactly where the man races, and I've seen his race cars (No Joke).

Let me go on record as saying that all of my future races will be at "the private track" that I have access to.

Billy, I know that you go to various tracks and that you like to "race" quite a bit. My suggestion is that whenever you tell a story about a race that you had make sure to say that it was at "the private track" that I know you have access to.

Folks on this board like to hear about our kills and like to make them. My thinking is that if all of our kills are at the various "private tracks" that we have access to folks should be able to appreciate our stories for what they are without worrying about us doing anything illegal.

Best,

Dan

[jstevens]

Well, my dealer recommends oil changes at 5000 mile intervals which is fine with me as I'm averaging 2000 miles a month. I prefer to let the dealer do it for documentation but after the warranty I may use valvoline.
My wife uses them even for her brand new vehicles.

[M-75]

the good point being made here is to protect your investment. its fun to read all the justifications for why one oild is better than teh other, but none of those testimonials offer any protection from a rejected warranty claim.

during the warranty period, get your service from the dealers, all of it. this puts you in good graces with the service department as a regular customer and we all know regular customers get preferred treatment and maybe even some help when the warranty cards are being dealt. wtf, can't hurt and documentation is what you need to build, as long as the new car warranty is in effect.

believe what you want about engine oil, but none of those oil companies built my marauder. ford did and as long as they are writing the repair check, i'll do anything they ask to watch their pen hit the paper. if marching in their dog and pony show happens to be cheaper than the aftermarket too, "cool beans" as my daughter would say.

[Dan]

the good point being made here is to protect your investment. its fun to read all the justifications for why one oild is better than teh other, but none of those testimonials offer any protection from a rejected warranty claim.

during the warranty period, get your service from the dealers, all of it. this puts you in good graces with the service department as a regular customer and we all know regular customers get preferred treatment and maybe even some help when the warranty cards are being dealt. wtf, can't hurt and documentation is what you need to build, as long as the new car warranty is in effect.

believe what you want about engine oil, but none of those oil companies built my marauder. ford did and as long as they are writing the repair check, i'll do anything they ask to watch their pen hit the paper. if marching in their dog and pony show happens to be cheaper than the aftermarket too, "cool beans" as my daughter would say.

I agree on this one. OASIS is a big deal for me. For one, I hate to keep my own records. With OASIS I never have to. #2, I used OASIS to buy my car. the next buyer might not but if I go to the trouble of having dealer service done you can gaurantee that I will make sure that next buyer of my car will see that report. (And, no, I don't plan to sell the M but life changes, right?) #3, I have been burned by too many shoddy mechanics in my life. I know that there are some Ford techs are are just as bad but at least I can go to Ford before I go to the BBB or small claims.

Best,

Dan

[roadpig58]

as an employee of a large ford dealer, i respectfully disagree with the dealer
honoring warranty claims on vehicles heavily modified with nitrous, ect, and therefore abused. the only thing this encourages is ford motor company to
further scrutinize claims and quite possibly deny a valid claim. ripping off the company is not the answer- customers who play by the rule agreed to at theTIME OF PURCHASE WIND UP GETTING HURT AND ARE BEING HURT NOW.
theres no question that the owner of any vehicle should have the right to modify it within existing laws- whats wrong is their unwillingness to accept responsibility for it and ask the manufacturer to foot the bill, which hurts
everyone with higher prices. my dealership rewards loyal customers who have their vehicles serviced properly and regularly with us. thats how we make our livings, and we will go to bat for any loyal customers with ford motor that do so.
im just as much an enthusiast with an 04 300b, a c5 corvette and an 1800vtx
honda motorcycle, and i do enjoy modifying my vehicles as much as the next guy- but i do not make it a practice to shirk any responsibility that belongs to me- roadpig

[BillyGman]

As for as the point that a number of you have made about the practice of oil changes having to be made by the dealer, I disagree. First let me point out that I do fully understand the concept of financially supporting your dealer in order to get cooperation from them should a warantee issue come into effect. I don't think it should be that way at all, since you've already supported them financially by spending about 30K on a new vehicle. But unfortunately, that is the case.


But there really would be no justification that I can see for a dealer to deny a warantee claim simply because the car owner in question chose to change his own oil, nor would the owner be obligated to produce receipts for oil changes. Now as far as other routine maintainenece being perfromed by your dealer, I think it's a great idea, but that doesn't have to include oil changes neccessarily.

[BillyGman]

[QUOTE=roadpig58]as an employee of a large ford dealer, i respectfully disagree with the dealer
honoring warranty claims on vehicles heavily modified with nitrous, ect, and therefore abused.

I find it difficult to believe that you are really a hi-perfomance car enthusiast as you've claimed to be in your post. I say that because of the blanket statement you've used here, and the manner in which you perceive this issue to be black or white. This isn't a black or white issue at all, and to look at it that way is unrealistic.



What about if the Marauder owner in question has changed the rear end gears, and the electric window motor goes? Or for that matter what if the axle bearings or the axles themselves give out on that same car that a gear ratio change has been performed? That clearly wouldn't neccessarily have anything to do w/the work that's been performed.



Another thing that you're entirely overlooking here is the fact that many dealers who make such a claim as to continue to honor the warantees of the cars that have been modified, are hoping that the hi-perfomance enthusiast crowd comes to that dealer when it comes time for them to spend big $$$$ on the labor for those modifications that they have opted for. So the dealer has a motive here. They often benefit from hi-performance customers, but only if they cater to them and attempt to meet their needs. And the more that dealers benefit financially, then the better that it also is for the manufacture. Just because you don't work for a dealer that bothers w/such customers doesn't mean that you have a bead on this issue, nor any inside track. And if the dealer that you work for does cater to these types of customers, then you've simply failed to see the big picture.



Furthermore you are failing to look at this from the customers' point of veiw. How realistic would it be for a dealer or the manufacture to discourage hi performnace enthusiasts, or to discourage hi-performance useage of the vehicles that they sell, when the way that they enticed those same customers to purchase those vehicles in the first place is with commercials and CD's of their cars being driven while performing smokie burnouts as well as dragstrip launches off the starting line just like Ford has done w/the Marauder? Or haven't you seen that CD that the dealer gives to their Marauder customers? If not, then are you really the Marauder enthusiast that you claim to be?



I think you need to draw back and take a look at the whole picture rather than simply from the narrow viewpoint that you've used to interject your opinion in your post.

[Dan]

as an employee of a large ford dealer, i respectfully disagree with the dealer
honoring warranty claims on vehicles heavily modified with nitrous, ect, and therefore abused. the only thing this encourages is ford motor company to
further scrutinize claims and quite possibly deny a valid claim. ripping off the company is not the answer- customers who play by the rule agreed to at theTIME OF PURCHASE WIND UP GETTING HURT AND ARE BEING HURT NOW.
theres no question that the owner of any vehicle should have the right to modify it within existing laws- whats wrong is their unwillingness to accept responsibility for it and ask the manufacturer to foot the bill, which hurts
everyone with higher prices. my dealership rewards loyal customers who have their vehicles serviced properly and regularly with us. thats how we make our livings, and we will go to bat for any loyal customers with ford motor that do so.
im just as much an enthusiast with an 04 300b, a c5 corvette and an 1800vtx
honda motorcycle, and i do enjoy modifying my vehicles as much as the next guy- but i do not make it a practice to shirk any responsibility that belongs to me- roadpig

I think that the laws of supply and demand are in full effect here. If this dealer did not have a lax polcy then customers with mods would find one that did and they would get that business.

I mean no disrespect when I say this but it doesn't really matter if anyone thinks that this is wrong or right. It is the customer who choses who to use and, in this case, some would use this dealer because of their lax warranty enforcement policies or they will find a different dealer.

I guess I can see how someone would think that is wrong and I can see it, too.

Best,

Dan

[Sactown]

....So if we use Mobil 1 in our engines it's not a good thing? I know a lot of people on here use synthetic oil...will there be future problems with this?

I know, I know...another "oil" thread. RF will sniff this one out soon enough...I'm sure!

-Mat
Mobil 1 0-20 meets the ford spec for 5-20 so it is fine to use. The spec # is in the manual and on the bottle. If you want the dealer to do the work, just bring them the oil to use. My dealer does not offer synthetics yet, but supposedly will in the near future. I probably will still do the changes myself, just for cost and time savings and QC, but I understand the reasoning presented by many in this thread about having a FoMoCo dealer do the work for the sake of waranty.

[rayjay]

The key here is quality of the products you use. I stick with MotorCraft oil filters and use Mobil 1 oil. I am religous about oil changes, even if I have to do it in below freezing weather. From what I have read here the vast majority of MM owners who do their own service will use quality products. You should therefore never suffer an oil related engine failure.

As far as dealers and mods, having been on the Focus forum for a number of years, I can tell you there are mucho horror stories out there. Now I understand you can not believe everything you read on the net, but posts over there would leave one to believe that the majority of Ford/LM dealers are NOT mod friendly. I read tales of full warranty termination for a chip being installed. My point is be prepared to find a mod friendly dealer. This probably should be done PRIOR to any problem. You can always throw the M/F SEMA Act at them, sometimes it works. I'm fortunate to have a local dealer that will work on a modified car still under warranty. Problem is I passed on their black MM to get a DTR from a competitor. Not sure I will be welcomed with open arms there :banned:

[2003_MM_FYRE49]

From what I have read here the vast majority of MM owners who do their own service will use quality products.

I agree with you 100% RJ, I just changed my oil and did a rotate on the Marauder yesterday. I spent $39 bucks and change on 6 quarts of Penzoil synthetic 5W-20 and a Fram Tough Guard oil filter. That is more than most people spend at their local speedy oil change joint. Fortunately I have the luxury of being on the maintenance committee at work so on the weekends when the Chief isn't working on the Engines and Trucks I bring my vehicles in to service them.

[Dan]

I agree with you 100% RJ, I just changed my oil and did a rotate on the Marauder yesterday. I spent $39 bucks and change on 6 quarts of Penzoil synthetic 5W-20 and a Fram Tough Guard oil filter. That is more than most people spend at their local speedy oil change joint. Fortunately I have the luxury of being on the maintenance committee at work so on the weekends when the Chief isn't working on the Engines and Trucks I bring my vehicles in to service them.

Tim, just a reminder that the Ford Tech said something about how the Ford oil filters hold pressure. He said that they are designed to do that. I researched it today and found that it is call an Anti-Drain Back Valve. It feature keeps oil in the filter to prevent "dry starts" after your engine has been turned off.

You may want to check the Fram filter to see if it has that feature. :up:

Best,

Dan

PS: I found that the filters for our cars are different from the rest of the Motorcraft filters.."Silicone Valve Oil Filters - Motorcraft® offers specially designed silicone components in the anti-drainback valves for oil filters FL-820S and FL-400S. The silicone valves retain flexibility throughout the life of the filter. This ensures better oil retention in the filter and faster engine start-up lubrication."

PPS: For others interested the link to the Motorcraft filter page is ...
http://www.motorcraft.com/standard.asp?T=2&M=12&PageID=30
I found it a little interesting to learn more about the Motorcraft filter.

[Dan]

So if we use Mobil 1 in our engines it's not a good thing? I know a lot of people on here use synthetic oil...will there be future problems with this?

-Mat

Mat,

I don't know and we didn't discuss it enough for me to get a read on it. I just wanted to report what he said for the benefit of the other Maruder owners here.

I have always been a little wary of dealers but what this guy said and the way he said it have changed my mind; at least about oil changes.

Best,

Dan

[roadpig58]

first off, let me say that in america, we are all entitled to our own opinions
that said, let me clarify a few things for those of you having trouble reading between the lines- if i were to take in a customer with an inoperative right
rear window, ant this customer had a 100 hp shot of nitrous bolted to his
car- his window would get fixed. now if the same customer came in with
a connecting rod through the side of the block, he`d be on his own.
and another thing, whats being an enthusiast or not have to do with taking responsibility for ones actions? how can any big company afford to warrant a
MODIFIED product against defects in materials and workmanship when someone elses hands have been in there? ill bet few of you out there know that ford has
a program in place to help people who are out of warranty as long as they have
had their vehicle serviced regularly at a ford dealer- theres something the company does thats not required- all thats asked is that ford techs have serviced the car- not jiffy lube or wal-mart. warranty coverage cannot be denied solely on the basis that ford is not working on the car- but why should the company help outside of warranty if someone else has been working on it? while we`re at it, lets clear up another common misconception
yes- you spent thirtysomething grand at the dealership- and no- the dealer did not laugh all the way to the bank- the service dept pays the bills- and it costs money to keep customers satisfied
everyones entitled to their opinion, but dont ever tell me im not an enthusiast
if you wanto play in the big leagues, make sure you can foot the bill, because
everyone who buys vehicles and has them serviced is tired of paying your way- roadpig

[BillyGman]

What do you think about a Ford dealer who is installing Superchargers on cars under warantee? The dealer is clearly making a good buck on the labor charges. Right?

And what if that S/Ced car's transmission goes a year later? How can it be proven that the transmission issue was solely due to the extra HP from the S/Cer installation? It can't be, can it? Those are the things that you cannot just paint black or white as far as I'm concerned, and your blanket statement simply sounded black and white to me. The bottom line is, that you cannot realistically claim that any modified car shouldn't be covered for drivetrain issues.

If that isn't what you meant, then you should've explained further, because that's how I'm reading you. And if that's your veiwpoint, then you and I will simply never agree on this. I brought up the axle bearings since there have been some problems w/those on some Marauders that were modified, and some that weren't. So things like that you cannot pin on a modification such as a rear end gear ratio change nor a S/Cer installation.

As far as I'm concerned, if Ford does that, then they're simply looking to cut corners. This is a complicated issue, and the details of every case need to be considered. For Ford, or any dealer to have a blanket type policy that's applied to any and all modified cars is a ripp off. It simply is unrealistic to generalize, or make blanket statements about these matters in an effort to attempt to suggest that customers like us are ripping off Ford. And that's what you've implied, so don't expect a warm response from the majority here.

I brought up the point about whether or not you're a hi-perf car enthusiast, because it was infact YOU who was the one who claimed that you were. So if being an enthusiast has nothing to do w/this as you've claimed, then why did you make it a point to claim that you were in your first post? The fact is that you came across as a con man trying to convince us that you can relate to us as customers, when infact it doesn't really sound like you can at all.

And that's why I also mentioned the part about being, or not being an enthusiast. Those car owners who aren't, tend to look at us from a distance, and pass judgement on us, just as you're doing, while they cannot begin to relate to our plight, nor to our needs as customers. :shake:

[roadpig58]

ok- lets try this one more time- all i am saying is that if a customers mods
break his car- then its his dime. how are you getting that i am not mod friendly out of that? my car is modded to some extent- and if it breaks because of what ive done- then it comes out of my pocket- not fords or the dealers
if being a "mod friendly dealer" to you means that i replace your motor under
warranty after you blew it up with nitrous, you are right- we`ll never agree
and no, i dont try to pin failures that should be covered on totally unrelated
mods, and that is exactly what i am trying to keep ford from doing- this
feeling out there of no owner responsibility is one i see every day- and its whats killing the whole thing for those that play by the rules- the responsibility rules
that is- and one more thing- hi performance work is NOT a good source of revenue for any dealer`s service department worth it`s salt- most master techs would agree that more problems are created that way than solved-- roadpig

[Dan]

Roadpig,

Where is your dealership? It sounds like you are the owner, are you?

I think that many MM guys here would like to have another Marauder friendly place to go and, no, I don't mean one that will break Fords warranty policies.

Best,

Dan

[SergntMac]

Billy...Why are you so harsh with Roadpig? He's got three posts in this thread, all making quite a bit of sense, and in my estimation, he's very polite about it. In fact, I agree with his points 100 percent, it's exactly the way my dealership treats me. They have been pleased to work on the #1 KB, and I've paid for the repairs/mods that are not clearly routine failures. The custom work I've asked them to carry out was paid out of my pocket, while other repairs such as the recent failure on my air bag system (a very expensive repair) that took 24 hours to diagnose and rebuild, came out of Ford's pocket. This is fair, and correct, and it's exactly what Roadpig has been describing. Roadpig seems straight up, why hammer him? I never thought I'd see you treat a newbie this way, I am disappointed.

BTW, one other correction...the servicing dealership does not approve or disapprove warranty claims, Ford does that. However, when it's time to explain what's wrong with the car, it's clearly up to the dealership service manager or wrench to describe the car's condition. Neglect is abuse too, and a poorly maintained or beaten down automobile may not get warranty coverage either.

Visiting the dealership to spend a few dollars here and there fosters a better relationship with these key people, and maybe they won't wear their readers when looking over the car on Ford's behalf. Moreover, if you are going to maintain your own MM, just keep the reciepts and maybe a maintenence log. I'm sure Ford won't turn you away because you do your own maintenence, but do your homework too.

[BillyGman]

Roadpig, & MAC, I'm glad that Roadpig finally spelled things out, because now I can agree w/most of his last post in this thread (although not all of it). His first post was rather vague, and sounded judgemental towards hi-perf customers, which is an unrealistic stance for a dealer to take concerning those who have purchased cars from Ford that have a target group who are HP freaks, and that's why I "hammered" him as you said MAC. BTW, welcome back MAC. I haven't seen you post in a long time.

As far as the comment about hi-perf work by a dealer being a poor prospect for the dealer in question, then what about places like Team Ford in Georgia? I've never been there, but atleast from what I'm hearing from a number of members here, they perform many hi-perf modifications for their customers. Infact, they even have a dynomometer, and they dyno tune their customers' cars. It's unfortunate for all of us here, that dealers like that are rare. Something tells me that Roadpig's dealer isn't like that at all,and isn't one of those who has a dyno either. But that's an assumption, but if that is the case, then that's obviously the reason for his viewpoints, and general attitude towards hi-perf customers, and/or towards hi-perf work.


It does sound to me that Roadpig is a service manager or an owner of a dealer, and one who I'd be hesistant to go to in light of his first post. Again, that's merely my assumption, and that can be all wrong. Just a hunch. It sure sounds like it though. If Roadpig's first post in this thread was more like his latest one, then I wouldn't have jumped all over him. But I think his first post wasn't anywhere in step w/the majority around here, and he would've left it at that, had nobody challenged him as I did.

[Amsoil_Dealer]

I agree with roadpig on the warranty issue. Owners do need to take responsibility for their actions or lack there of as the case may be.

Now let me throw in one more "all dealers are not created equal" comment that is related to oil changes. I walked in to my local Ford dealer's service department to order a replacment key and I happened to notice Z-max engine treatment kits proudly displayed. I was intrigued by this so I looked around some more. As I was looked further I noticed a little sign with "Good, Better, Best" oil change programs. The "Good" was a basic oil change for $23.95. Fair enough. The "Better" was an oil change plus greasing of the joints and an X number of points under body inspection for $39.95. OK still no foul. The "Best" was the "Better" program but with a complete Z-max engine treatment regimen for $99.95.....Now THAT is a blatent rip off. Not only are the products and the labor to install them over priced, the dealer is doing his customer a dis-service by installing a product (at least the oil additive product) that has proven in FTC tests to do more harm than good. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I have to assume that the dealer is unaware that he is offering a product that does more harm than good and while they may have a few good mechanics, they aint going to be workin on my car.

The point is, not all dealers are competant and one should be careful about assuming that dealer service is the best for your car.

Don

[BillyGman]

BTW Don, exactly what type of "Dealer" are you? Just curious, because I can't help but think that much of this issue concerning warantees and modifications, are simply looked at by most dealers as a cut & dried issue, that's determined by the potential of financial gains alone, rather than by what's fair to the customer also being a factor. And that's simply poor ethics.


I don't know a lot about NOS, and I don't blame Roadpig for his comments about that, nor do I disagree w/him about that specifically, however, I didn't hear him address any of my questions about S/Cing, as to how that would relate to a possible transmission warantee claim, or a rear end gear failure, or the like. He seems to want to avoid those issues, and that's what makes me suspicious about his overall viewpoints of hi-perf customers. I'm bringing him, and his posts up again, because he was the one who started one of the issues that you have addressed. I just don't want to be misunderstood here.

It seems to me that you have two types of members on a board like this. Those who are consumners, and those who are vendors, or potential vendors. That isn't to say that vendors are neccessarily bad, nor am I neccessarily refering to you. So please don't anyone twist my words here. okay? I'm simply saying there are differences,and anyone who's been here, or on any board like this, for any length of time, knows exactly what I'm saying.

I do agree w/your comments Don, about the competency of some dealers being in question. You can say that again. if it sounds like I've had bad experiences at various car dealers, that's because I have!!! However, unfortunately, I'm not alone. Many others on this board have also.

Let me conclude by making it perfectly clear that there some exceelent vendors on this board. I have absolutely NOTHING but good things to say about the products that are listed in my modifications list in my signature located at the bottom of my posts, and about the vendors that I've purchased them from. I wish that I could say the same about the two dealers I've brought my Marauder to so far. But I simply cannot. :shake:

[rayjay]

I haven't looked at my warranty booklet, but in the past any type of forced induction, even that sold by Ford Racing, voided the entire power train warranty. Period. I remember that the warranty book in my Focus specifically spelled this out. Now, if a dealer installs it, they may warrant it themselves, but I highly doubt Ford will.

[BillyGman]

Despite the claims of a certain few in this thread, dealers DO have the leverage to perform warantee work in the way they see fit, and can pick and choose which warantee work they will perform, to a certain extent. The service manager of the dealer near me specifically came right out and told me face to face in person that he will honor the warantee on my Marauder despite the fact that I've modified it. Now would you say that he outright lied to me?


And some dealers I've heard about will actually void the entire warantee of the car simply if they find a chip plugged into the computer. While one dealer actually told me that they can get a chip for me if I want. So my point is, some dealers simply look down at hi-perf customers, while some cater to them, and they do have a certain degree of leverage in warantee matters. To say that they absolutely don't is inaccurate.

When you read in an owners' manual things like what you've mentioned about forced induction of any kind voiding the warantee of the entire vehicle in question, you have to realize thats simply written by a Ford Attorney and is worded in a way to cover their behinds should any litigation arise from a dispute between a customer, and a Ford dealer, or Ford itself. So the wording used will always be extreme to protect Ford and it's dealers to the full extent, should they need such protection during litigation. But that doesn't neccessarily mean that those written words have to be applied, or are applied or enforced in every potential warantee claim situation as if though they're written in stone. The extreme, cut & dried type wording is merely used to make the Ford Attorny's job easier when, and if, a case goes to court. It makes his chances of winning the case for his client better.

[roadpig58]

BILLY GMAN- it was not my intention to give you the impression that im a
dictator or know it all, im not- if you got that impression, let me apologize
with that said, ive never sidestepped a question in my life, growing up in
the bronx made sure of that- power adders- your marauder probably
has the engineering to have its powertrain withstand the addition of a supercharger, however, under the terms of fords warranty, you would add
that component at your own peril- ie- motor- trans-rear-ect.
think about it- ford commits a warranty to you under the terms in which
the company has engineered the vehicle- not you. therefore, abnormal
un-engineered stress that the drivetrain would be subjected to and the
potential damage it could create would be on you.
Billy, if you were my customer, i`d do everything in my power to help you
with a problem, but i`d also never shy away from looking you in the eye and telling it like it is- you`d probably get along better with me than any other service department you`ve been to- roadpig

[BillyGman]

you`d probably get along better with me than any other service department you`ve been to- roadpig
Well that might very well be RP. I still don't agree w/everything you're saying, but I think we've sliced and diced this more than enough already, so I'll let it rest. One thing that I do agree w/MAC on, is that you've been very polite, and I do appreciate that.

[Dan]

Roadpig,

Where is your dealership? It sounds like you are the owner, are you?

I think that many MM guys here would like to have another Marauder friendly place to go and, no, I don't mean one that will break Fords warranty policies.

Best,

Dan

Hello? Marauder friendly place? Location? :)

Inquiring minds want to know.

Best,

Dan

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Man what a loaded question........

Billy,

To answer your question, I am an Independent Amsoil Dealer. I sell Amsoil products as a side job for fun and as a way to help fray some expenses of my car enthusiast / racer hobby. I am a manufacturer's rep for packaging machinery manufacturers as my day job. My perspective on the topic of Ford or LM dealers is only opinion. Nothing more. I have no affilitaion with any car dealer of any kind.

As a representative for several manufacturing companies, I can tell you that I have personally experienced many situations where people have improperly used or maintained their equipment, a failure occured within or near the factory warranty, and rather than own up to their own abuse or improper maintenance, tried to stick the manufacturer for a warranty repair. I hate to see such practice and from this perspective I agree with RP that there are some circumsatnces where warranty repairs should not be authorized. Ford's warranty is in place for cars that are unmodified and used for normal road use. While the car may have an adequate design to handle a lot more power than stock, I can understand perfectly why they may not fix a transmission on a S/Cd car that is raced every weekend at the drag strip. I really do not think these cars are designed to have 450 HP pumped through the drive line.

Just my $.02

Don

[rayjay]

Racing is considered abuse of the product and can void the warranty also, even if the car is unmodified.

[BillyGman]

Racing every week, sure, I can understand that, but I think if you race it once or twice per year as I do, then you should have nothing to feel guilty about when and if something in the drivetrain gives up, especially if there are other Marauders that have had similar problems that haven't even been modified. The way that service manager that I spoke with put it was as follows....

"Hey, I know very well that almost everyone who buys a car like a Marauder, or a Cobra isn't going to drive it like an old granny, and I don't expect them to. Furthermore, I'm well aware that many owners of these cars will modify them, and I don't have a problem w/that unless they come rollig their car in w/a roll cage, and numbers on the windows". Other than that, I'll still honor the warantee in question."

[jgc61sr2002]

Sgt. Mac - Welcome back. :D It's nice to hear from you.

[rayjay]

Racing every week, sure, I can understand that, but I think if you race it once or twice per year as I do, then you should have nothing to feel guilty about when and if something in the drivetrain gives up, especially if there are other Marauders that have had similar problems that haven't even been modified. The way that service manager that I spoke with put it was as follows....

"Hey, I know very well that almost everyone who buys a car like a Marauder, or a Cobra isn't going to drive it like an old granny, and I don't expect them to. Furthermore, I'm well aware that many owners of these cars will modify them, and I don't have a problem w/that unless they come rollig their car in w/a roll cage, and numbers on the windows". Other than that, I'll still honor the warantee in question."
I only brought it up as a reminder. As I said before, some dealers look for any excuse to not honor a warranty if they suspect abuse. I had a 78 Ford F100 PU, three spd on the column, straight 6. The spider gear blew out at 11k miles. They tried to tell me I had been racing it. You gotta be kidding right? Nope, they were serious. I limped it the 100 miles to where I bought it and it was repaired without question. Like I said I have a local dealer 10 miles away that the service manager stated he didn't care what I did to the car he'd do the warranty work. I suspect within reason though... I doubt they'd cover a major engine repair if I showed up with a blower or nitrious setup.

[merc406]

OMG NOT another OIL THREAD!!!!!!! :bigcry: :bigcry: :eek: :eek: :shot: :flamer:

[BillyGman]

OMG NOT another OIL THREAD!!!!!!! :bigcry: :bigcry: :eek: :eek: :shot: :flamer:
LOL.....must be something about that word "OIL". :D

[MYSTA KANG]

Regardless of what type of oil you put in your ride......CHANGE IT REGULARLY!

[purelux]

Well the closest ford dealer to me under filled my last car a 94 crownvic which i bought from them 4 times in a row exactly 3/4 of a bottle of oil each time. Which is rediculous considering how long they take and the fact that it costs as much or more than anywhere else to get oil changed. This if done could have caused a knock. Also a mfg can't tell you to use thier oil, wipers, air filter, etc etc.. without providing it free if they are going to drop a warrenty because of it. If you use oil of the right weight and compliant with their standards regularly then your warrenty is intact.

[MENINBLK]

I spoke with an off duty Ford mechanic today who informed me that Ford air filters are designed to hold oil pressure even with the car off and for extended periods.

I checked with him on the price of an oil change at his shop and it was very reasonable. They even have a quick change line.

He also noted to me that these engines are very fussy about their oil and that use of the wrong oil can causing pining in them when they are warming up. That seemed odd to me but I guess oil is like blood to a car so I can imagine it could be important. Besides that, the guy did not seem like he was just trying to sell me on a Ford oil change.

Considering that I want to leverage the OASIS report on my car down the road I think that the FoMoCo oil change is a better value.

On a side note (for the CT Marauderers) I asked the guy how they handle cars that have been chipped and modded in other ways. He said that they routinely will peform warranty work on the car provided that the mod did not affect the broken part but he then went on to tell me about a guy with a NOS'd truck that blew to pistons and they let him yank the NOS system and still sent it in for warrany review.

I won't post the dealer name here since that might blow a good thing if Big Blue Oval is reading this but if one of you CT guys want to know which dealer just PM me.

Best,

Dan


I wonder how many FORD TRUCKS in CT, blew their pistons...
Maybe that's TOO MUCH information ???

[MENINBLK]

What do you think about a Ford dealer who is installing Superchargers on cars under warantee? The dealer is clearly making a good buck on the labor charges. Right?

This is why FORD sells a HO/SC Premium Care Warranty.
It costs just a wee bit more, but it covers things like that...

[Merc-O-matic]

Piss on the dealer....I change my own oil. They want
$34.95 for an oil change called "The works"
because they check the fluid in your winshield washer
and the air in your tires.!
Like P.T. Barnum once said, "there is a sucker born every minute"

Gotta Love It! :mad2:

[Svashtar]

Piss on the dealer....I change my own oil. They want
$34.95 for an oil change called "The works"
because they check the fluid in your winshield washer
and the air in your tires.!
Like P.T. Barnum once said, "there is a sucker born every minute"

Gotta Love It! :mad2:
Damned right! The idiot dealer I bought if from had my car marked as a Grand Marquis for godssake! It had been sitting on their lot getting the paint ruined and the tires coated with muck by clueless detail guys for 21 months. Good for me, as I beat them down almost 11 grand because of that and because it had almost 300 miles on it. Then they had to pay a fortune to have it repainted a month later.

They sent my VIN out to the DMV incorrectly, and it took me 7 months to get the official registration. Still last week I got a lien notice supposedly on my car, threatening to sell it, but that had a different license plate on a MM wrecked and in storage in another city.

I had them align the car, and despite my printing out all the info re: the Hunter alignment machine targets and our rims, that I got from this forum, they STILL ruined one of my rims and had to buy me a new one.

Later they told me that the hood latch squeaking was because of my "unapproved' front sway bar.

Week before last they installed a revised fuel sending unit in upside down, and when I went back to get it fixed the tech got gasket sealant all over my leather seats.

They're total friggin' idiots. I wouldn't let them change a taillight in my car. I'll do the oil and everything else I can, thank you very much, and ONLY take it (after re-flashing the PCM) to them in the case of warranty work that I can't do myself.

Norm