My dealer and 4:10 gears

[Svashtar]

I must be talking to the wrong people. NOT to start another warranty thread, but my dealer I just picked up my car from Friday says that I could change the rear gears to 4:10 and flash the PCM, but that if the rear end subsequently failed they could not honor the warranty for the rear end only. Everything else would be covered.

I guess that's fair, as they don't know what hack might have put in the gears. I told him I also was being upfront with him about the PCM tune, as I could reflash it back to stock and he wouldn't even know. He seemed cool with that as well.

The service manager referred me to a gear place in my town, but the guy refuses to install the Ford gears I have ordered from Wes, and will only guarantee the job if I buy the gears from him. What bothered me is he acted like the 4:10 change was some kind of super-radical change that would ruin the car. Anyway, THIS guy referred me to a shop in Monterey that will install my gears for $450. Lot's more than the $320 JBA Racing in San Diego wanted to charge me, but also not 7 hours away, and I won't have to stay overnight, so I might go with them. They would also install the stud kit for me while they are in the rear-end.

Going to do more research in the San Jose area and some comparison shopping. Everyone on MM.net is so positive about the work and so far the people I am talking to are like "Weelll, I GUESS, you could do that, but why?" and "You know you'll never get the car over 90 again, don't you?", and "You sure that's a good idea?"

Keeping on. The only folks I found who seemed super-confident and no-sweat about the mod so far were JBA.

Thanks,

Norm

[mrjones]

Going to do more research in the San Jose area and some comparison shopping. Everyone on MM.net is so positive about the work and so far the people I am talking to are like "Weelll, I GUESS, you could do that, but why?" and "You know you'll never get the car over 90 again, don't you?", and "You sure that's a good idea?"

Norm[/QUOTE]


Look for a good Mustang shop. They can either do it or point you to someone who can, probably for less than the $450.

[MYSTA KANG]

Hey Norm before the floodgates open just go to the search bar and look up 4:10 gears and you will have plenty of info. Another thing the guy who will only do the change unless you buy the gears from him-stay clear of him. I have been down that road once and almost went to jail cause he figured I was a idiot and couldnt notice he never replaced the parts he charged me for.
And that guy that is questioning you, he is a typical gunslanger. Everything you say he will shoot it down before you can finish. Man get those 4:10's believe me after riding in MIB car they make a world of difference. :burnout:

[Donny Carlson]

...THIS guy referred me to a shop in Monterey that will install my gears for $450. Lot's more than the $320 JBA Racing in San Diego wanted to charge me, but also not 7 hours away, and I won't have to stay overnight, so I might go with them. They would also install the stud kit for me while they are in the rear-end.
THANK YOU SCOTT LEVINE!!!

[FiveO]

JBA Racing did the gears on my MM for the previous owner.

Sounds like the drive may be worth it....but yeah...it is a long way.

[BruteForce]

If your dealer didn't offer to have the gears installed in their shop, it would appear you need to find a dealer that can handle basic repairs/upgrades like this. Good place to start looking for a quality Ford (not just LM) dealer is the SVT site. Techs at a SVT dealer are going to be much more savvy to performance upgrades than a run of the mill dealer.

Start here:

SVT Dealer locator (http://www.fordvehicles.com/dealerships/locatedealer/index.asp?specialty=SVT)

[TAF]

Folks that don't know what they are talking about will tell you that going to 4.10s are a "radical step-up"...and will "ruin the ride". But, don't blame them...they are used to talking to folks about doing that with Mustangs with 16" wheels and NOT with 4,200 lb, 4-door sedans with almost 29" of wheel and tire.

As mentioned above, find yourself a Ford SVT dealer and speak with one of their top techs, or Service Managers there.

And yes Donny, thank you Scott Levine!!!! WOW, $400+??!!

[TAF]

Try these guys (the SVTOA group of Northern California) or the dealer mentioned as their sponsor. It's a good idea to join the SVTOA, or at least your local chapter. The Atlanta group has been VERY welcoming to Marauders (even though we are not officially SVT cars). And they can give you a LOT of local advice.

SVTOA-NorCal site is:
http://www.svtoa.com/chapters/chapterdetails.asp?chapterguid ={DAD18341-C876-4A0A-8A63-96943386EDBC}

SVT Sponsoring Dealer's site is:
http://www.serramonteford.com/

<TABLE cellSpacing=10 cellPadding=0 width=450 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top rowSpan=2>http://www.svtoa.com/images/chapters/upload/DAD18341C8764A0A8A6396943386ED BC/NORCAL_logotype_250.gif </TD><TD vAlign=top>http://www.svtoa.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD>SVTOA of NorCal (http://svtoa%20of%20norcal/)



Address:
(http://address:</p><p%20style=)648 S. Fair Oaks Ave
Sunnyvale, CA 94086 (http://648%20s.%20fair%20oaks%20ave%2 0</p><p%20style=)

Phone:
(http://phone:</p><p%20style=)(408) 356-3853
(http://(408)%20356-3853</p><p%20style=)

</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>Visit: SVTOA of NorCal (http://javascript<b></b>:siteExit('http://www.norcal-svtoa.org'))





Sponsor: Serramonte Ford (http://javascript<b></b>:siteExit('http://www.serramonteford.com'))

Email Contacts: (http://email%20contacts:/)
Dealer Advisor: Peter Verducci (pverducci@serramonteford.com)
Director: Joe Garcia (onefastcobra@comcast.net)



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[CRUZTAKER]

That's a tough situation. The gears should run $180 or so and labor $240 or so if the rate is around $60/hr.

I guess everything ids bigger in Texas, and everything is more expensive in California.:shake:

[hitchhiker]

I must be talking to the wrong people. NOT to start another warranty thread, but my dealer I just picked up my car from Friday says that I could change the rear gears to 4:10 and flash the PCM, but that if the rear end subsequently failed they could not honor the warranty for the rear end only. Everything else would be covered.

I guess that's fair, as they don't know what hack might have put in the gears. I told him I also was being upfront with him about the PCM tune, as I could reflash it back to stock and he wouldn't even know. He seemed cool with that as well.

The service manager referred me to a gear place in my town, but the guy refuses to install the Ford gears I have ordered from Wes, and will only guarantee the job if I buy the gears from him. What bothered me is he acted like the 4:10 change was some kind of super-radical change that would ruin the car. Anyway, THIS guy referred me to a shop in Monterey that will install my gears for $450. Lot's more than the $320 JBA Racing in San Diego wanted to charge me, but also not 7 hours away, and I won't have to stay overnight, so I might go with them. They would also install the stud kit for me while they are in the rear-end.

Going to do more research in the San Jose area and some comparison shopping. Everyone on MM.net is so positive about the work and so far the people I am talking to are like "Weelll, I GUESS, you could do that, but why?" and "You know you'll never get the car over 90 again, don't you?", and "You sure that's a good idea?"

Keeping on. The only folks I found who seemed super-confident and no-sweat about the mod so far were JBA.

Thanks,

NormI thought you were going to Hansel...?

I spoke to Nick there this afternoon and he was out the day you called.

He is going to call me back later this week with an estimate for doing my 410 gears.

He is also going to do the TSB work on the rear end (axles) and check out
the piece of trim around the steering column. Mine has seperated a bit and it may need to be replaced.

Best Regards

David

What up?

[RF Overlord]

Norm: To quote from one of the greatest movies of all time:

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!"

Anyone who tells you NOT to do the 4.10s is uninformed. They would probably be right if you were talking about a Mustang or CV/GM with the SOHC motor, but in THIS car, 4.10s are practically a must...the only reason I didn't do them a long time ago was finding a shop that I trusted to do the work...(well, that and plain laziness on my part... :rolleyes: )

$450 does sound a little high, but if you trust the shop, and they'll stand behind their work, and it's convenient, well...then it's worth it...

[GodOSpeed]

And yes there is life after 90 lots of life! :rock:

[Svashtar]

I thought you were going to Hansel...?

I spoke to Nick there this afternoon and he was out the day you called.

He is going to call me back later this week with an estimate for doing my 410 gears.

He is also going to do the TSB work on the rear end (axles) and check out
the piece of trim around the steering column. Mine has seperated a bit and it may need to be replaced.

Best Regards

David

What up?David, that is good news. When I didn't hear back from them I figured that even tho they had done the S/C training that maybe they weren't into doing this work for me and so were just not calling back. I just phoned back and had a great conversation with Nick. If I can't get a well regarded racing shop to do the work I would much rather have a FLM dealer do it, especially as Nick said he would investigate and relate any warranty issues with the gear change. (He said _worst_ case I would still have 12 months/12K miles protection on the Ford parts.) He also (as you said) will check out the axles while they have got apart and see if any of that TSB applies to us.

And thanks to the rest of you for all the great advice and links, (although the Scott Levine thing went right over my head! )

Thanks again.

Norm

[TAF]

(although the Scott Levine thing went right over my head! )

Norm
Sorry Norm...he's the Ford Master Tech here in the A-T-L who has probably done about 30-35 Marauder gear-swaps by now...and it wasn't even CLOSE to $400....

[MARAUDERCHICK]

THANK YOU SCOTT LEVINE!!!

!!!DITTO!!!



!!!!!!BIG TIME!!!!!!



(DAYUM)

[Svashtar]

Sorry Norm...he's the Ford Master Tech here in the A-T-L who has probably done about 30-35 Marauder gear-swaps by now...and it wasn't even CLOSE to $400....
Thanks for the info. That's the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) for you. Another example: I won't mention names, but two folks on the vendors list are selling Sylvania Silverstars for about $30 per set. I didn't think it would be a good idea to have them banged around during shipping, so called around here and the best price I could find in town was $50+tax. One of the pleasures in living in the People's Utopia (that and $2.39 per gallon 91 octane!)

I am buying most of my parts from Wes who was super fair and gave me a great deal IMO, but the labor out here may prove to be my undoing. (Funny, I used to consider myself a damn good jackleg mechanic, and have a complete shop set up, but most of the stuff on this car I'm afraid to touch.)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Hansel will do it without bending my bank account too much out of whack. David (Hitchhiker) and I will let you know what they come up with.

Thanks,

Norm

[klmore]

I called my local Ford SVT dealer in Bossier City, Louisiana today to get a quote on installing my new gears and have the axles checked at the same time. They quoted me 8.0 hours of labor at $72 an hour. I guess he thought I was stupid enough to pay over $600 for a gear install, but not quite.

I called my other local Ford dealer in Shreveport, LA to get a second quote and they said they wouldn't install any performance parts period. The humorous part is I bought my gears, girdle, and stud kit from them. I left messages with the service manager and my normal service advisor and neither of them even called me back.

I have just about had it with both of the dealers. I have to put my Excursion in the shop at the end of the week for its 60K service and I dread the thought of either of the dealers touching it. They want my money and nothing else with zero customer service.

I am a loyal Ford customer and I'm really getting tired of the lack of service and knowledge offered by the dealers.:shake:

Sorry for the rant.

[TAF]

klmore,

You need to get in touch with Jim (jspradii (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/member.php?u=482)) and let him hook you up. He's had LOT'S of work done on his car and can, I'm SURE, help direct you in the Shreveport area. :up:

[hitchhiker]

Thanks for the info. That's the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) for you. Another example: I won't mention names, but two folks on the vendors list are selling Sylvania Silverstars for about $30 per set. I didn't think it would be a good idea to have them banged around during shipping, so called around here and the best price I could find in town was $50+tax. One of the pleasures in living in the People's Utopia (that and $2.39 per gallon 91 octane!)

I am buying most of my parts from Wes who was super fair and gave me a great deal IMO, but the labor out here may prove to be my undoing. (Funny, I used to consider myself a damn good jackleg mechanic, and have a complete shop set up, but most of the stuff on this car I'm afraid to touch.)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Hansel will do it without bending my bank account too much out of whack. David (Hitchhiker) and I will let you know what they come up with.

Thanks,

Norm

'PRK' or not, We are where people want to live. Just look at the price of Real Estate here! Besides, I live in a 'normal' area...Woodland.

Keep smokin that granola over there in Somona...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Best Regards,

David

[Dennis Reinhart]

Well Norm, Bruce Tucker has a real good shop. I send him all the work in that area, 320.00 Labor is very fair. I charge 300.00 I have no idea what you bought your gears for I sell them for 180.00, now I am the same way when a customer brings me in there own parts, yes I will install them with NO warranty and I charge more labor, because of the fact that, he did not buy the parts from me so I will not warranty them. But 450 labor is a gouge, take a day off enjoy your self and go see Bruce tell him I sent you.

Dennis A Reinhart

[hitchhiker]

Well Norm, Bruce Tucker has a real good shop. I send him all the work in that area, 320.00 Labor is very fair. I charge 300.00 I have no idea what you bought your gears for I sell them for 180.00, now I am the same way when a customer brings me in there own parts, yes I will install them with NO warranty and I charge more labor, because of the fact that, he did not buy the parts from me so I will not warranty them. But 450 labor is a gouge, take a day off enjoy your self and go see Bruce tell him I sent you.

Dennis A Reinhart
Dennis,

I too live in California.

I love your work on our MM's!

Where is Bruce located and what is his contact information?

Can he change the PCM for 410 gears?

How much is your cooling kit for our MM's?

Can he also install your cooling kit?

Thanks,

David

[BillyGman]

I have two things to say:

#1. Who ever you have do the work, tell them BEFORE you hand your keys to them, that you want the old gears put in the trunk, and if that isn't done, you won't be satisfied. That way you'll know they actually replaced them. Ofcourse you can also put the car up on jackstands after the work is done, and while the transmission is in nuetral, turn the wheel one full revolution while closely watching how many times the driveshaft turns. If the 4.10 gears were installed in the rear, then your driveshaft will turn 4.10 revolutions to every one turn of the rear wheels. You can mark the driveshaft w/paint, whit-out, or chalk to make it easier to see how many revolutions it's making while you're turning the wheel.

#2. Just about any high performance V8 engine car w/an overdrive transmission will be great w/4.10 gears, even on the highway. The people who tell you otherwise are always the ones who only have experience w/using 4.10 gears on cars that do NOT have overdrive transmissions. And w/out an O/D transmission, 4.10 gears ARE too extreme for highway driving. Bottom line: That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Your Marauder will only be reving 350 RPM's higher at 70 MPH in overdrive w/the 4.10 gears in the rear, than it does right now w/the stock 3.55's in the rear. It isn't a huge difference at all. And you'll only see about a 2MPG reduction in your gas mileage around town. I've been there, done that. ;)

[Svashtar]

'PRK' or not, We are where people want to live. Just look at the price of Real Estate here! Besides, I live in a 'normal' area...Woodland.

Keep smokin that granola over there in Somona...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Best Regards,

David
Don't get me wrong, I live in the prettiest spot on the planet as far as I'm concerned, and I'm very happy with my real estate appreciation in Salinas, which is over 260% just in the last 7 years. I just hate the fact that we pay more for everything, especially gas, and I couldn't believe some of the prices quoted me in the last couple of days for work I know is hundreds less in practically every other state.

(Somona? Sonoma? (-: Sorry, I missed that... I'm in the central coast of CA..)

Regards,

Norm

[hitchhiker]

Don't get me wrong, I live in the prettiest spot on the planet as far as I'm concerned, and I'm very happy with my real estate appreciation in Salinas, which is over 260% just in the last 7 years. I just hate the fact that we pay more for everything, especially gas, and I couldn't believe some of the prices quoted me in the last couple of days for work I know is hundreds less in practically every other state.

(Somona? Sonoma? (-: Sorry, I missed that... I'm in the central coast of CA..)

Regards,

Norm
I thought you were in Sonoma!

I would say that Salinas is a bit more grounded.

Nice climate and great golf!

You will have a bit of a drive if you take your MM to Hansel.

I think it will be worth it though.

Best Regards,

David

[Svashtar]

Well Norm, Bruce Tucker has a real good shop. I send him all the work in that area, 320.00 Labor is very fair. I charge 300.00 I have no idea what you bought your gears for I sell them for 180.00, now I am the same way when a customer brings me in there own parts, yes I will install them with NO warranty and I charge more labor, because of the fact that, he did not buy the parts from me so I will not warranty them. But 450 labor is a gouge, take a day off enjoy your self and go see Bruce tell him I sent you.

Dennis A ReinhartDennis, thanks very much. No, I know $320 is super fair, it it simply the 7-hour 1-way drive I am trying to avoid. Honestly, I didn't care at all where I got the gears or who sold them to me, I just thought (foolishly I guess) that I was making it _easier_ on JBA or whoever installed the gears by providing the parts for them. I didn't realize I was hurting myself by doing so. I thought I would do the right thing by buying them from a vendor on this site, so that I knew I was getting quality parts, and then have a reputable shop install them. I see now that I'll pay slightly more for doing that, but so be it. If I were anywhere in the South it seems like I would have my pick of places to do the work from A to Z.

At this point for purely Ford warranty purposes it makes sense to see what Hansel FLM will charge to do the work. If they don't work out I'll call JBA and drive the car down to them. Their customer service guy was great and gave me a lot of good info.

For now I am focusing just on the gears and tuner, and not even changing the standard plugs yet. A little bit at a time....

Thanks again for the contact reference and information.

Regards,

Norm

[Svashtar]

I thought you were in Sonoma!

I would say that Salinas is a bit more grounded.

Nice climate and great golf!

You will have a bit of a drive if you take your MM to Hansel.

I think it will be worth it though.

Best Regards,

David
David,

You're right on the drive, but not too bad. I have some friends and relatives up there still that I could stay with if necessary, and from here it's just about 2 1/2 hours as I recall. About 130 miles is all.

Just on the strength of Dennis's recommendation I would take it to JBA in a heartbeat for everything, and just pay their freight whatever it was, BUT from here even as the crow flies it is an 800 mile round trip, and the actual distance will probably be closer to 1000 miles with an extra 100 each way for the roads I have to take. So even at optimum mpg there's another $120 I have to come up with for gas. JBA said they MIGHT be able to do it in one day, but told me to figure on spending the night, so there's an overnight stay to boot, and more if my wife wants to keep an eye on me and tag along, so I'm exceeding 500 at least at that point.

Salinas is definitely more grounded, as is Monterey where I work. Just up the coast though is Santa Cruz, and they make Sonoma look pretty tame! (-: Pretty similar to Berkeley, in that it is a liberal college town, etc.

Thanks and regards,

Norm

P.S. I am thinking of getting a larger tranny cooler installed on mine; I had heard of the head cooling problem but wasn't that addressed by Ford? I know there is an aftermarket cooling mod, but guess it is far easier to do if the tranny is out, and am not sure of the cost of parts / labor. If you find out or have any idea then please let me know! Thanks again.

[Svashtar]

Dennis,

I too live in California.

I love your work on our MM's!

Where is Bruce located and what is his contact information?David, it is JBA Racing in San Diego (they say Kerney Mesa (sp)). Phone is 858-495-3395, and they are located at 5155 Convoy St., San Diego, 92111. Hours are 8:30-5:30 M-F and 9-3 on Saturdays.


Can he change the PCM for 410 gears?The service writer I spoke to said they could no problem, although he wasn't personally familiar with the exact model of tuner I mentioned.


How much is your cooling kit for our MM's?

Can he also install your cooling kit?You probably should call Dennis directly as to the cost, (and then be sure to let me know! (-:) I didn't ask JBA about this one. I imagine they could, as they indicated they regularly did all sorts of mods on this engine platform.

Best regards,

Norm

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis,

I too live in California.

I love your work on our MM's!

Where is Bruce located and what is his contact information?

Can he change the PCM for 410 gears?

How much is your cooling kit for our MM's?

Can he also install your cooling kit?

Thanks,




http://www.jbaracing.com/
David


Well every one has there opinion here is mine 4:10's work as well as 3:55 gears in our cars, I have installed these in at least a 100 Marauders I have had no one complain of gas milage drop PERIOD, thats because with our tuning and advanced timing and beter AF corections. Woth the gear install its like night and day in the car. Bruce will give you all your old parts, I can send you a tuner, to corect your speedo and you will gain as much as 23 RWHP and 30 foot pounds of torque, call me any time I am never to busy to try and help or answer questions.

[BillyGman]

I don't consider a loss of 2MPG in gas mileage anything to complain about. That's why I've never "complained" about that. Just for clarification though, when I installed the 4.10 gears in my Marauder, I had also installed your chip Dennis, and my gas mileage still went from 17 MPG around town, to 15. Again, that's nothing to complain about, so I can't imagine why anyone would call you up to complain about that.


If anyone is going to be concerned about a mere 2MPG, then they probably should've bought an economy car instead of Marauder in the first place.