I got a noise..

[MarauderMark]

Ok here it goes a few weeks ago i had my mufflers installed when it was on the lift i noticed the pinion gear seal was leaking maybe from the hard 1-2 shift .(i dont know 1st i had a car that shifted like this)would this cause the seal to leak? then thursday i had the PI3000 installed when i got home to test the t/c my son could hear ,faintly a clicking noise.well the noise has progressed to a knocking noise but you would only hear it when slowing to stop like from 30mph to 0.until last night the noise sounds like a knocking noise is now heard from start to stop and getting louder so the car is parked until friday till i get it to the dealer..

i was wondering do you think that maybe the gear oil leaked out ?(today i put cardboard under to see but nothing on it). or the drive shaft was not put back on rite? or the mufflers moved? should i try to drive the car again to determine wtf it is?
This has really depressed me.something wrong with my baby....any and all info would be greatly appreciated...

[bugsys03]

No way it is the gear lube. 2.5 qts of gear lube goes a long way, it would coat the back of your car. Gotta be your t/c install. :mad:

[Tallboy]

when in doubt, i would flat-bed it to my favorite mechanic.

[merc]

Mark, this sounds like you may have a problem with your limited slip unit. Remove the rear cover and check for damage. I would not take it to the dealer unless you have a good relationship with the Service Manager. Oh sorry to hear you are having troubles with your second wife, I know the feeling. Tell Peg not to worry because once you go Black you don't come back. :eek: Oh, I was talking about the car Peg :pimp:

[MarauderMark]

Mark, this sounds like you may have a problem with your limited slip unit. Remove the rear cover and check for damage. I would not take it to the dealer unless you have a good relationship with the Service Manager. Oh sorry to hear you are having troubles with your second wife, I know the feeling. Tell Peg not to worry because once you go Black you don't come back. :eek: Oh, I was talking about the car Peg :pimp:


This is something that could happen from the 1-2 wheel spinning hard shift?If so i have no choice but to goto them :censor: ers.but i do not have the time or patience and besides the last time i tried to do something on my car it cost me $1,000 for stupidity and i also dont have anyone to trust around here yet.last time i was there i left smoke and 2 blk lines..so either they'll get it rite or someone is getting socked.i have to get it ready for the jerry tune..unless you wanna come on up here and check it for me :rock: cause at least we can both f :censor: k it up and i can blame someone else besides me :lol: Peg says your yes your rite once your go big and black ya don't come back..I hope you too are talking about my car :shot: :baaa:

[frdwrnch]

Sounds like merc is on the right track. If it is load dependent ( that is if it changes when you are on or off the gas or at cruise) then it is probably in the rear differential. If this is the case, get it checked soon.

[MarauderMark]

Drove it today (a little while ago) and it still is doing it when slowing down and now when i give it gas but when i let off the gas it stops until 30 mph oto stopp. so i think i will have her towed (jic)to dealer and just give them my arm and leg :censor: !!!!!!!!will post findings..what choice do i have :alone:

[MarauderMark]

Welp i found out today what the clicking noise was.Two (2) teeth were broken off the pinion gear and going to cost $525.00 to put back in 4:10(in stock) another $20:00 more for 4:56's(1 week) but dont know if i have the time for them to install 4:56's (have to wait to hear from dennis).quess i'll have to get rid of the neck snappin 1-2 shift , even though now the t/c absorbs most of it now.this started when i got the car back from having the t/c installed , think they must've test drove it? :flamer:
Thank you all again.

[MarauderMark]

Just another update! went to the dealer w/ camara and this is what it looks like .they said this happened for either of 2 reasons..
1)Could've been bad gears..or

2) Faulty installation-which by looking at the way they broke was probelly the reason.he said they should be riding in the middle and not on the end.which in the picture looks like they are broke on the ends .

Soooooooo should i call the installer and see what he wants to do .or bite the bullet???




The dealer is also installing my mezeire water pump too :banana: :banana2:
Jerry here i come...

[BillyGman]

Mark, four things here......


#1. I don't think that you, nor anyone can conclude that the gears weren't meshing mostly in the middle of the teeth, and that they were meshed towards the outer part of the gear teeth just because the teeth happen to break towards the outer edges. Therefore I don't think that you neccessarily have any sufficiant proof that the gears were installed improperly just because of how they broke.

Ring & pinion gears are helical cut gears, which means that the teeth are designed to slide against one another unlike straight cut gears. That gives them greater strength since it enables them to also be designed to have more than just one pair of teeth engaged at the same time. And that way the entire torque of the engine and drivetrain isn't up against merely one pair of ring & pinion gear teeth at any time.

Ring & pinion gears are also supposed to be mildly heat treated, because if the heat treatment is too extreme, it would not only make the teeth harder, but more brittle as well. So this failure might be due to improper heat treating during the manufacturing process. But there's no way for you as the customer to know that for sure.



#2. What gear oil did you use? The only reason I'm asking you that, is because of that blue residue that I'm seeing all over the rear end in those pics. I don't remember seeing any blue residue during the two gear changes that I've performed on my Marauder(but it might only be that my memory fails me). So I'm thinking that it's merely due to you using different gear oil than I did.

#3. What brand of gears were these?

#4. Did this happen on the dragstrip? And if so, were you running slicks at the time?

[BruteForce]

Resurrected thread alert! Mark has had much more serious breakage since 08-02-2004. :D

[BillyGman]

Resurrected thread alert! Mark has had much more serious breakage since 08-02-2004. :DOh wow!! Thanks for that alert BF. I wasn't even looking at the date of the original post!! Thankyou very much for pointing this out!!!!! I was ready to PM him to ask him about the details. How the heck did I do that?????!!! I don't even know how I clicked on such an old thread w/out knowing that it was this old. DUH!!! :rolleyes:

.....nevermind.:o

[Svashtar]

Oh wow!! Thanks for that alert BF. I wasn't even looking at the date of the original post!! Thankyou very much for pointing this out!!!!! I was ready to PM him to ask him about the details. How the heck did I do that?????!!! I don't even know how I clicked on such an old thread w/out knowing that it was this old. DUH!!! :rolleyes:

.....nevermind.:o
That's cool Billy! Shows your heart is in the right place. I know who I'm gonna PM if I ever have any problems with my gears! :D

Norm

[BillyGman]

That's cool Billy! Shows your heart is in the right place. I know who I'm gonna PM if I ever have any problems with my gears! :D

NormThanks for your kind and encouraging words Norm. I appreciate that. And any time you have a question, just let me know. If I can help you in any way, I will. And if I don't know the answer, I'll try and refer you to someone who might know.;)

[MarauderMark]

Mark, four things here......


#1. I don't think that you, nor anyone can conclude that the gears weren't meshing mostly in the middle of the teeth, and that they were meshed towards the outer part of the gear teeth just because the teeth happen to break towards the outer edges. Therefore I don't think that you neccessarily have any sufficiant proof that the gears were installed improperly just because of how they broke.

Ring & pinion gears are helical cut gears, which means that the teeth are designed to slide against one another unlike straight cut gears. That gives them greater strength since it enables them to also be designed to have more than just one pair of teeth engaged at the same time. And that way the entire torque of the engine and drivetrain isn't up against merely one pair of ring & pinion gear teeth at any time.

Ring & pinion gears are also supposed to be mildly heat treated, because if the heat treatment is too extreme, it would not only make the teeth harder, but more brittle as well. So this failure might be due to improper heat treating during the manufacturing process. But there's no way for you as the customer to know that for sure.
1) Answer= This is what the dealership told me when they tore it apart..but nothing will ever happen with them d******ds ever again..


#2. What gear oil did you use? The only reason I'm asking you that, is because of that blue residue that I'm seeing all over the rear end in those pics. I don't remember seeing any blue residue during the two gear changes that I've performed on my Marauder(but it might only be that my memory fails me). So I'm thinking that it's merely due to you using different gear oil than I did.
2) Dont know i wasn't present during installation.could be anything..
#3. What brand of gears were these?
3)The fo mo co they were ordered from dennis..
#4. Did this happen on the dragstrip? And if so, were you running slicks at the time?
4) It may have but i didn't notice it until one morning when pulling out of the driveway slowly and if it weren't for leaving slowly i more than likely wouldv'e gotten stuck somewhere.and no i have never used slicks.

i guess you miss my car as well as i do.. :D

[Smokie]

#2. What gear oil did you use? The only reason I'm asking you that, is because of that blue residue that I'm seeing all over the rear end in those pics. I don't remember seeing any blue residue during the two gear changes that I've performed on my Marauder(but it might only be that my memory fails me). So I'm thinking that it's merely due to you using different gear oil than I did The blue residue is from the blue ink that is supposed to be used to see if you have the proper gear mesh pattern...that is what I use when doing gears....if you don't do this, how do you have visual proof of proper meshing?

[BillyGman]

The blue residue is from the blue ink that is supposed to be used to see if you have the proper gear mesh pattern...that is what I use when doing gears....if you don't do this, how do you have visual proof of proper meshing?The blue ink is old hat. I use the white marking compound that comes with most installation kits. I believe the white compound works better. I say that because I think that using the white compound might be more accurate since it tends to give you a clearer indication of the mesh patern of the gear teeth. ;)

In fact, if the installer of Mark's gears did use the blue ink, then maybe the pattern was misread, and the gears were installed incorrectly. But again, that cannot be concluded for certain simply because of the way the teeth broke. i've said this before, andf I'll say it again here.....it's because of these things that I do all the work to my own car that I possibly can. When other people work on your car, they just don't put the kind of extra care and precaution into the job as they would if it were their own car unlss they're an exception to the rule. :rolleyes:

[Smokie]

The blue ink is old hat. ;) Yeap, I'm old.;) My son happened to stop by while I was viewing this thread and I showed him the picture and asked him for an opinion (he is a wrench for Lexus)

First response was "Brittle gears, heat treatment went too far"

I enlarged the picture and asked him if he care to comment further, his reply was " it looks like insufficient pinion depth adjustment"

Anyway is an opinion based on a picture, but his opinion is more educated than mine....:D

[BillyGman]

Yeap, I'm old.;) My son happened to stop by while I was viewing this thread and I showed him the picture and asked him for an opinion (he is a wrench for Lexus)

First response was "Brittle gears, heat treatment went too far"

I enlarged the picture and asked him if he care to comment further, his reply was " it looks like insufficient pinion depth adjustment"

Anyway is an opinion based on a picture, but his opinion is more educated than mine....:DLOL...well, those are also the two possibilities that I mentioned in my previous posts in this thread, so I happen to agree with him. However, it cannot be both. It's either one cause, or the other, but it cannot be proven which one of the two it was that caused this to happen. It's an educated guess that leads us to these conclusions. But we have no way of knowing for certain which one of those two things mentioned was the actual cause for the failure.

Despite how afraid and intimidated most car enthusiasts are about performing ring & pinion gear swaps themselves, it isn't rocket science, and once you do it correctly, you understand the mechanism, and how it operates better than you have in the past. But I know that you're already aware of all that Javier.

[Smokie]

Brittle gears is tough to prove, but insuficcient pinion depth should be easy to check....no blue stuff, that's for old folks. Use the the newer marking compound to check mesh, gauge to measure backlash, calipers for pinion depth.

If all the tolerances on the failed ring & pinion set check within specs, that would leave conclusive proof that the gears were defective....or some very extreme external factors were involved....and the ring gear was the....the weakest link.

[BillyGman]

Brittle gears is tough to prove, but insuficcient pinion depth should be easy to check....no blue stuff, that's for old folks. Use the the newer marking compound to check mesh, gauge to measure backlash, calipers for pinion depth.

If all the tolerances on the failed ring & pinion set check within specs, that would leave conclusive proof that the gears were defective....or some very extreme external factors were involved....and the ring gear was the....the weakest link.Javier, that's^ an excellent point. I didn't even think of that, but now that you've pointed that out, I must agree. That would be a great way to determine what has happened, and would be real easy to do. Just remove the cover, and brush the white marking coumpound on five or six of the ring gear teeth, and turn the back wheel a few revolutions, and look at the mesh pattern. Nice catch Javier. :up: