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View Full Version : who's S/c'ed with stock gears?



Bradley G
08-15-2004, 06:06 AM
I have'nt noticed anyone running stock gears that is supercharged.It may be false but it seems peformance mods start small and escalate.I know BillyGman stated if his s/c was installed first he may not have gone with the taller gears.do the vendor's suggest doing gears too or is it just preference?

FiveO
08-15-2004, 06:17 AM
There are a few people running stock gears with s/c'ers.

I believe, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe Lidio is suggesting the 4.10's. Billy should agree here :) but the 4.10's are a nice medium to the very tall 4.56's and the stock gears. Good get up and Gooooo....along with pretty good mileage.

It is just preference though....do what you want.

MarauderMike
08-15-2004, 06:42 AM
Currently I am running stock gears, however I am thinking of going to the 4.10's. I put the 4.10's in my first Marauder and was very impressed with the off the line performance. The 3.55's with the S/C for a street car are quite sufficient, since my primary use for the car is driving and not drag racing I may never change. With the 3.55 gear you can do a light roll out from the line and then punch it and not break the tires loose so I really don't need to go with the widened rims necessarily. On the other hand, at the strip the need for the widened rims is very apparent, no doubt it would improve my track performance. The 4.10's make very little difference in your highway rpm at 70mph, somewhere around 300-400 rpm. The bottom line in my opinion is just what you want out of your car and when. The 4.10's definitely give you an extra punch, but it is a personal preference of when enough is enough.

SergntMac
08-15-2004, 07:28 AM
Paging back through the history of the Marauder and mods promoted among us here, uping the rear gear was one of the early mods available that would surely pay off. Declaring 4:10s as the best overall choice was more or less a mutual agreement among us, though later on, 4:30s became an option. Today, with two power adders available, and a bevy of other mods usually considered problematic now tamed, a gear change decision is probably more a financial decision, i.e. "what I can afford to do now while planning," rather than "what can I do?"

Is a gear chang otherwise necessary? Not at all. Both centrifugal and roots blowers provide so much healthy and safe power, I suggest to those so inclined to do that first, and mod from there as they desire. You will not be disappointed, and you may save some money in the long run, once your Marauder's performance get a geniune "boost."

Just last night, Zack and I had the opportunity to whip a bone stock '04 SVT Cobra. For those who may not know it, this Mustang has the engine I wish we could have optioned on the MM, a 4.6 DOHC with a roots blower. I'm telling you right now, this is one sweet automobile. Fast, and handling anything we threw at it. But, I'll say this too, in bone stock trim, the SVT Cobra will not beat a Marauder built just right.

IMHO, if I could do it all again, I'd start with a bone stock MM and a blower kit, and sit back and tweak from there.

MARAUDER S/C #5
08-15-2004, 10:04 AM
Is a gear chang otherwise necessary? Not at all. Both centrifugal and roots blowers provide so much healthy and safe power, I suggest to those so inclined to do that first, and mod from there as they desire. You will not be disappointed, and you may save some money in the long run, once your Marauder's performance get a geniune "boost."

IMHO, if I could do it all again, I'd start with a bone stock MM and a blower kit, and sit back and tweak from there.I couldn't agree with you more Sergnt Mac. I started out with the K&N filter, Denso plugs, and Rienhart chip. Although this made a nice increase in power and alot better shift points it was not enough for me. Then the Trilogy kit came out and I decided this was the way to go. I did not want to spend my time or money on a bunch of mods when I could get this one mod and have my car where I felt it needed to be in terms of power.
So, almost a year ago the chip and plugs came out, the filter stayed and kit #5 was installed. For me the car now has plenty of power, more than enough for my needs. Just yesterday I had it out on a local " private track " and it is hard to believe how hard this car pulls all through the powerband, it is amazing. And my kit is set up very conservatively at about 9.4# of boost (382 rwhp), which I guess you could say is a lightwieght Trilogy car. I could not be happier with the way this car performs. It is fast and at the same time mechanically safe.
I have no plans for any more peformance mods. I did get the widened rims and Nitto's, more for the look rather than the added traction. But let me tell you these wider tires really do grab a whole lot better than stock. The only things I want to do now is beef up the trans. and rear end, which I guess you can call peace of mind mods.
All in all the car runs AWESOME and I have not had a single problem with anything supercharger related or not. If I had to do it all over again I would do the same.
:burnout: :banana2:


This post is not intended to endorse or disrepect any one or any product. Just MY experience with modding my car.
Have a good day people!
:P

BillyGman
08-15-2004, 11:26 AM
Nice thread. I happen to agree w/everything that everyone has said so far in this thread. There's no right and wrong when it comes to the decision to stay w/the stock 3.55:1 ratio gears, or to change them for the 4.10:1 ratio, or even the 4.30:1, or 4.56:1 ratios. There are trade-offs w/the 4.56's, but I've already covered all of that in another thread.


But Trilogy Motorsports doesn't tell their customers to have a gear change performed, nor to avoid having one performed either. It's the individual's preference. Either way, your car will be very fast w/a S/Cer installed. With a gear ratio change, it will simply be a bit faster off the line.

MI2QWK4U
08-15-2004, 01:01 PM
I thought after driving a couple of Trilogy cars equipped with 4:10s that those gears were a little bit much for the car with the type of blower I was getting. With as much low end torque that the Eaton had, I was having a hard time hooking up as it was. But I finally decided to try the 3:73s and found them a nice comprimise. It wakes it up off the line and doesnt hurt my top end, which I like. What is the top end of a Marauder with 4:56 gears? With the 3:73s I can still hit 160+ MPH with more to go. I hit that speed this summer at Michigan International Raceway during an open track event. I talked to a guy in a real nice old Cobra said he was doing 160 MPH when I passed him. I like the drivability of the 3:73s, but the 4:10s arent bad for a second choice.


Passing a Cobra at Michigan International Speedway @ over 160 MPH
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/694DSC_0159-med.jpg

Bradley G
08-15-2004, 03:59 PM
Thanks fella's for all your feedback. It's probably going to be a while till I can swing the S/C( a guy can dream can't he) If you told me a year ago I would be driving a 300 HP sedan,:woohoo: I'ed have laughed at you

BillyGman
08-15-2004, 09:05 PM
[QUOTE=MI2QWK4U]I thought after driving a couple of Trilogy cars equipped with 4:10s that those gears were a little bit much for the car with the type of blower I was getting. With as much low end torque that the Eaton had, I was having a hard time hooking up as it was. But I finally decided to try the 3:73s and found them a nice comprimise. It wakes it up off the line and doesnt hurt my top end, which I like. What is the top end of a Marauder with 4:56 gears? With the 3:73s I can still hit 160+ MPH with more to go.


I personaly don't believe that anyone will ever feel any difference at all going from the stock 3.55 gear ratio to a 3.73 ratio. I don't believe that such a minor change is even worth the money and time to make a change at all. Especially w/a 4200 LB car. Traveling at 70 MPH, your engine will only be reving at 100 RPM's higher w/the 3.73 gear ratio than it was w/a 3.55 ratio. And even at 160 MPH, the RPM difference between those two gear ratios is merely 250 RPM's. So there's no way you'll feel a difference in the way the car accelerates, unless you're driving a 2,000 LB car pushing 500+ HP to the rear wheels.

I can understand if you don't want 4.56 gears since they are a bit on the extreme side, and you will be burning up more gasoline w/that ratio as I am. But there are NO "driveability" issues w/4.56 gears w/a car that has an O/D transmission and 28" tall tires like the Marauder does. my car only revs at 2700 RPM's at 70 MPH on the highway, so I wouldn't call that a "driveability" issue. And w/the 4.56's I can still easily hit 120 MPH, and at that speed the car is still pulling. However that's really faster than I care to go w/a 4,200 LB car anyway, and much faster than any of us would be moving in the quartermile. IMO, if you want the big top end like Dave has w/his car, then you might as well just stay w/the stock gears since you won't notice a difference in acceleration between 3.55's and 3.73's anyway. In that case you should save you money for another MOD that will actually make a noticeable difference in performance.

As far as the comment about 4.10 gears being too much w/a roots type S/Cer, I totally disagree. Just because you cannot hammer the pedal down on the street w/out spinning the tires w/4.10's doesn't mean there's no benefit to be had. If you know how to walk the car away from the traffic light for the first 20 feet using half throttle, then you'll still acheive better acceleration after that, once you do hit full throttle, than you would've had w/the stock 3.55's, or w/3.73 gears. So even using that technique to avoid tire spin off the line w/4.10's and a S/Cer, you'll still be able to gain better acceleration from 0-60 MPH on the street.

And at the dragstip, you can hammer that gas pedal down to the floor all at once right off the line even w/a roots type S/Cer and 4.56 gears and get complete traction as long as you have the Nitto P305 drag radials, and you've taken the air pressure down to 22 PSI. How do you think I've obtained two consecutive 60' times of 1.6 seconds despite my car putting 51 HP less to the rear wheels than your car is Dave? So I don't think that you can accurately claim that a Trilogy S/Ced Marauder will not benefit from 4.10, 4.30, or even 4.56 gears off the line. Because that just isn't true, unless your launch technique is all wrong for your car.

Bradley G
08-16-2004, 04:05 AM
thanks again , I appreciate all your comments.I love reading the different viewpoints on whats best (IMHO)I don't have to be the fastest,But I do have to admit I like the attention I (WE) get with this car.:loco:

MI2QWK4U
08-16-2004, 12:28 PM
Billy,
First of all I am not even going to bother quoting your post from above, I'm sure that folks will know what I am refering to. Second, my original post was my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. It is my opinion based on driving a milder(less mods, less RWHP, less Torque, less boost, etc) Trilogy car with 4:10s that it wasn't what I wanted for my car. My car already had the low end torque and grunt that I needed. The 3:73s were and experiment that just happened one day, and yes, you can actually tell the difference off the line over the 3:55. Just like my opinion was based on the 4:10s being more than I wanted, feeling the difference over the 3:55s were based on extensive driving of the setups, can you base your opinions on driving several simularly equipped Marauders? Now I will admit I haven't driven a trilogy car with 4:56s, but I dont need to! If I think the 4:10s are more than I want, then it stands to reason that the 4:30s or 4:56s are way over the top, in my opinion. This opinion is based on how I drive and how streetable I want my car. Its funny, Lidio and I had this conversation the other day about how wild to get with the cars, and he agreed that for his tastes, as with mine, the 4:56s are too much. Now while I never claimed to be the all knowing Marauder Guru, like some on this site think they are, I am neither stupid or ignorant when I post an opinion. I tend to put forth information I have either experienced or witnessed first hand in an attempt to help others make an informed decision. You certainly didnt mind it when I spent a lot of time answering your questions about the trilogy setup, either on the phone or via emails. I actually can't believe I took the time to throw this post on, but it hit a nerve I guess. Lastly you don't have to respond in bold font, I think people get the message you disagree with me. I think that there are others here with superchargers that could speak up on this topic, although I am not sure if the specific needs or qualities of the different supercharger setups are different from each other. All I can tell you is at this point, with my setup, boost, torque and HP, I am very comfortable with the 3:73s because it keeps my top end wide open and doesn't hurt me that bad off the line, you will still know you just got spanked by one of the fastest Marauders on the road....

MI2QWK4U
08-16-2004, 12:34 PM
Just last night, Zack and I had the opportunity to whip a bone stock '04 SVT Cobra. But, I'll say this too, in bone stock trim, the SVT Cobra will not beat a Marauder built just right.



Well said and absolutely true, I have yet to be beat by a stock 03 or 04 Cobra.

Joe Walsh
08-16-2004, 12:52 PM
MI2QWK4U, I am glad to hear of your experience with the 3.73s...I was contemplating changing to them because I drive alot on the highway and I really didn't want to go to 4.10s. Also, I thought that the steep gears were more for the centrifugal S/Cs to get them above 3000 rpm as quick as possible and that the low end torque of the Eaton S/C meant no need for the 4.10s & 4.56s...Anyway I LOVE cruising on the highway in a big sedan thats V8 is barely spinning above idle.

BillyGman
08-16-2004, 02:20 PM
Dave, I didn't mean to offend you, but my in my original post I pretty much stated that it's all a matter of preference, and I still maintain that opinion. I think that you got a bit more opinionated in your first post than I did w/my original post, and that's why I felt it neccessary to respond. I don't want other members to get the impression that it's worth it for them to take their N/A car, or even S/Ced cars that already have 3.55's, and make the change to 3.73's, thinking that it's going to make a considerable difference, because it just will NOT. If you disagree, then we will just have to agree to disagree on that.


You say you speak from expereince, however by your own admission (and Lidio's too) you have never tried the 4.56's in a Marauder, whereas I have had the 3.55's, 4.10's, as well as the 4.56's in my Marauder, and I know what was in there each time since I performed the gear changes myself. So please don't imply that I'm not "experienced" in this matter. If you like your gear choice better, than that's fine since it's your car. Just because I've asked you for your opinion and for your help in the past concerning a choice of S/Cers doesn't neccessarily mean that you're more knowledgeable than I nor anyone else concerning gear ratios, and the results that they might or might not yield. Let me add, that if you think that having a 100 RPM difference at 70 MPH will yield a considerable difference in the way any 4200 LB car accelerates, then I simply will never see eye to eye w/you on that specific issue, because I think you're simply incorrect on that.

But I think that now that we've both shared our conflicting opnions, we should let our readers decide for themselves. We need not make this a big personal conflict between the two of us. I've shared my viewpoint, and you've shared yours.

Captain Steve
08-16-2004, 03:19 PM
Well, I was having some fun with math.. here's my scribbles.



Gear 3.55/G 1/G ...RPM Comparisons for the same tire speed here....
3.55 1.00 .282 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 6000
3.73 1.05 .268 1050 1575 2100 2625 3150 6300
4.10 1.15 .243 1150 1725 2300 2875 3450 6900
4.30 1.21 .233 1210 1815 2420 3025 3630 7260
4.56 1.28 .219 1280 1920 2560 3200 3840 7680


I highlighted where you have to rev ~300 rpm more to get the tires spinning at the same speed with the different gears. I pulled 300rpm out of the air because it jumped out at me when I did up the chart.

MI2QWK4U
08-16-2004, 03:25 PM
Billy, what im trying to say is it depends on what you intend to use the car for. If you drive a lot of miles, or want your top end,you dont want 456s. For some, they may not feel the earth shattering difference in going to 373s. But for someone with experience with cars like this, and being familiar with my Marauder with the blower on for a number of months, I could feel the difference in the seat of the pants, not huge, but noticable. Lidio and myself made it a point to leave the drivability unchanged. The moment the car crossed the line of being anything other than stock appearing or running, other than when you get on the gas, it was over the line. I trust Lidios opinion when he says for the way we drive the car and how we like the top end, the the 456s are a bit much and not a consideration. I am not offended, rather felt like I was being schooled or taught whats what over what my opinion and recomendation was. Since I dont know, you can fill me in on this, what is the managible top end on your trilogy car with the 456s? And I wont dress this up with any of those retarded smiley thingies...

BillyGman
08-16-2004, 03:44 PM
LOL......okay, I understand you not wanting to bother w/the smilies. The only answer I can give you on that Dave is that I've had my car to 120 MPH several times, but I know that is slow compared to your circle track experiences. I'm only into drag racing, and street driving, so circle track is NOT my thing, and that's why I haven't attempted to find out what the absolute top end of my car is. So I really don't know what it is Dave.


However, in all fairness to you, and to other members on this board, I must point out to you that w/the 4.56 gears, even the Dynotech MMX driveshaft that I have will begin causing vibrations at 120 MPH, whereas it was at 90 MPH w/the stock Marauder driveshaft with the the 4.56's. So that also is something that is a possible negative w/the 4.56 gears IF you're into the top end stuff like you are. For me, going over 120 MPH doesn't matter, but that's simply because I'm not into that.

Like you've said Dave, it depends what the indoividual wants to do w/his or her car, and I do agree w/you on that.

Captain Steve
08-16-2004, 03:44 PM
Ok, I ran the numbers backwards too, just in case it made a difference in looking at it for people.



Gear 4.56/G ...RPM Comparisons for the same tire speed here....
4.56 1.00 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000
4.30 .943 0943 1415 1886 2358 2829 3301 3772 4244 4715 5187 5658
4.10 .899 0899 1349 1798 2248 2697 3147 3596 4046 4495 4945 5394
3.73 .818 0818 1227 1336 2045 2454 2863 3272 3681 4090 4499 4908
3.55 .779 0779 1169 1558 1948 2337 2727 3116 3506 3895 4285 4674

MI2QWK4U
08-16-2004, 03:48 PM
Like you've said Dave, it depends what the indoividual wants to do w/his or her car, and I do agree w/you on that.

Hell yes Billy, thats what I want to hear! We agree to disagree! Or is that to disagree about agreeing?! Thats what makes this country the greatest!

BillyGman
08-16-2004, 03:48 PM
Oh, I also forgot to add Dave, that the only other thing I can offer is that at 120 MPH in O/D, my car's engine is reving at 4500 RPM's w/the 4.56 gears. And w/3.73's at 120 MPH in O/D w/the same tires, my car would be reving at 3700 RPM's. And also for comparisant, the 3.55's would have it at 3540 RPM's at that same speed.

MARAUDER S/C #5
08-16-2004, 05:08 PM
SMILELY TEST.........:neener: :banghead: :dunno: :loco: :blah: :fishslap: .........


SORRY :Offtopic:

Svashtar
08-16-2004, 05:28 PM
Great thread! So the bottom line for those of us who are just learning about all this: will a stock Marauder (N/A?) with 4:10 gears and an upgraded chip or flash, AND a standard drive shaft be able (or should I say "still be able" cuz I know my stock MM will reach 120) to reach 120 or even 130 MPH (assuming my superchips 1725 can raise the limiter a bit) without a problem? That's about as fast as I would ever want to go (on a safe straightaway of course!), and it seems to my still learning mind as if the 4:10 gears would be a good compromise between better than factory get up 'n go off the line and a somewhat downward revised top end.

I calculate that the drive shaft will be turning about 14% more with the taller 4:10 gears than with stock, but still think the standard drive shaft can handle those speeds OK, or certainly should be able to unless my math is all wrong. I'm figuring that 120 with 4:10 gears will turn the standard driveshaft as fast as would 3:55 gears at 137 mph. and 130 w/ 4:10's would = 148 w/ 3:55's. Correct? I can see where those of you doing 1/4 miles would want the lighter / stronger aftermarket drive shafts, but I'm just talking top end here and not drag racing.

Please let me know if I am incorrect or off base in any of my assumptions, or if you happen to know the car won't reach these speeds with just the mods I mentioned (4:10's & flash).

Thanks as always to everyone for your expert input!

Norm

Paul T. Casey
08-16-2004, 05:54 PM
Norm, as far as your driveshaft question, from what I can remember (I'm too lazy to do a search) somewhere around 120 mph there were "issues" with the stock driveshaft. Harmonics, vibration, other stuff I cannot totally recall right now. I would think that with the taller gears, the speed number for this phenomena (sic) would be less as the driveshaft will be turning faster at the same speed. IMHO, if you're planning on high speed driving, the driveshaft upgrade is real cheap insurance. I've seen what a failed driveshaft can do, and it ain't pretty!

BillyGman
08-16-2004, 11:23 PM
I did install the 4.10 gears when my car was N/A, and w/the stock driveshaft I didn't have any problems, and I took the car up to 120 MPH a few times. The N/A Marauder will easily do 120 MPH and more w/4.10 gears. I'm just not into traveling at those kind of speeds. Yes, there were a few isolated ocassions when I did, but I for one, prefer the G-force from off the line acceleration.


If you go w/the 4.10's, whether your Marauder is S/Ced, or N/A, you'll have more than enough top end power for the highway. I can assure you of that. With the 4.10 ratio gears, your Marauder will only rev 350 RPM's more in O/D at 70 MPH, than it did w/the stock 3.55 gears. As for the driveshaft, believe me, you'll know if you need the aftermarket one. When I had the stock driveshaft w/the 4.56 gears, the vibration was very noticeable, and quite obvious beginning at 90 MPH. And the faster I went above 90, the louder, and more intense the vibration became. there's simply no mistaking it.

Patrick
08-17-2004, 12:31 AM
GREAT THREAD!!!!!!! Thanks!!

Bradley G
08-17-2004, 06:17 AM
Someone Liked my thread:grouphug: