Torque Converter Questions

[Dan]

There are several different torque converter choices to go with.

Three that are spoken of frequently are;
04 MM TC
CVPI TC
Stallion TC.

I would like to get feedback from those who have done research on the various solutions. Some have gone with the CVPI TC for its perceived durability. Is it truly more durably?

Some go with the 04 MM TC for its performance. Ditto for the Stallion.

I would appreciate any help you guys can offer in making the decision. As always, let's keep it civil as we all know how easily these comparo threads can turn into Olympic Urination Contests. Please help keep this thread on topic and logical and rational. The reason I make this last proviso is because I really do need to get some good answers on this upgrade and it would be a shame if the thread got wild before it became useful. :)

Best,

Dan

[cyclone03]

It's said time and again to do a forum search first.
In the case of torque converters I've made several post on the subject,do a search.
The short and sweet from me is I have the PI Stallion and like it,now,it does need some computer tweeks to make it right but once done it's great.

[TripleTransAm]

I didn't realize the '04MM TC was a viable option... does this mean it's a simple replacement item? (honestly, I thought I followed all tranny threads...)

[merc]

In your question concerning Torque converters consider the total package not just the converter. I am sure that you will find lots of old and new information about this subject. Taking the transmission down is costly and replacing or upgrading components one at a time is usually not wise. In the last year I have upgraded my torque converter, upgraded tuning, shift kit, cooling, and had the transmission rebuild under warranty. It’s all about the dollar bill Dan in this game. Find the combination that works for you, but don’t be shocked at the end of the day you might be spending 2,500 plus dollars. Zack has spent many man-hours on his transmission and is a good source for this type of questions. I personally feel that upgrading the transmission is necessary to produce low 60 ft times and drive train reliability.

[merc]

I didn't realize the '04MM TC was a viable option... does this mean it's a simple replacement item? (honestly, I thought I followed all tranny threads...)

Triple T, Lidio is using the 04 TC in his marauder and I think thier is a tread concerning that upgrade.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10067&highlight=lidio

[TripleTransAm]

Thanks, will go soak that up right away...

[Dan]

It's said time and again to do a forum search first.
In the case of torque converters I've made several post on the subject,do a search.
The short and sweet from me is I have the PI Stallion and like it,now,it does need some computer tweeks to make it right but once done it's great.

The unfortunate thing about a forum search is that it gets all kinds of extraneous posts and is not always as specific as is needed.

I would love to read your commetns about the matter. Would you please point me in the direction of the proper forums to search? Better yet, would you provide those links? That would be most helpful.

Do we have any 03 guys with the 04 converters installed? How are you liking it? Other feedback about the others, too, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Best,

Dan

[Zack]

Just remember you will be shaving off a bunch of weight with the Stallion.
Pricey, but good move performance wise.

[Dan]

Great point. Thanks, Zack.

Does yours affect the smoothness of the car in any adverse way?

Dan

[Dan]

While searching for a used PI converter on this site I noticed that there are a couple who don't like the way the car shifts. They say it is too ragged of hard edged. What is that all about?

Best,

Dan

[martyo]

You need to get the shift and lock up schedules adjusted with your tune.

[BillyGman]

I didn't have anything "adjusted" as marty said. I simply installed the Stallion converter, and I think it's just fine. However, it has been improved a bit w/the Trilogy S/Cer chip which is burned by Lidio, since he has it so while cruising, the the converter doesn't lock up until you hit 60MPH.

[martyo]

However, it has been improved a bit w/the Trilogy S/Cer chip which is burned by Lidio, since he has it so while cruising, the the converter doesn't lock up until you hit 60MPH.

This is the sort of "adjustment" I meant Billy.

[cyclone03]

The unfortunate thing about a forum search is that it gets all kinds of extraneous posts and is not always as specific as is needed.

I would love to read your commetns about the matter. Would you please point me in the direction of the proper forums to search? Better yet, would you provide those links? That would be most helpful.

Do we have any 03 guys with the 04 converters installed? How are you liking it? Other feedback about the others, too, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Best,

Dan

Yea right,like I could figure out how to link something...

Sorry you cought me on a bad day.

Ok My thoughts on converters...
The stock 03 too tight.
As I said I went with a PI Stallion,I have no experiance with any other converts at all.All the performance cars I've had prior to the Marauder were sticks.

The PI is 9.5" and much lighter than the stocker,it also holds about 2qts less fluid so that lightens it up too.The result of this is the engine revs much freer,is that a word?
The PI will rev safley to 9500rpm without BALOONING.The stocker?6500(the main reason the automatic Marauder is limited to 6200rpm).
The stall is raised to about 3000rpm,I say about because this veries with vehicle wieght and available traction.(at Indy I brake stalled to 2500rpm on the line but the RPM "flashed" to 3500 on launch,on the street a 2500 rpm launch like that results in instant tire spin.

NORMAL driving:From a stop light in traffic,not hoursing around,the rpm spends more time at about 2000 rpm than when stock.This makes the car sound louder because the revs are higher at lower speeds.As the car accelerates the converter locks and unlocks pretty much same as stock,but the convert locks are noticed much more because the rpm drops are greater due to the higher stall.

Med just want to be first arcross the intersection driving: From a stop without stalling the converter,on throttle tip in the RPM jumps right to about 2500rpm,be mindful of tire spin,car just goes,normaley you wont notice the converter locking in 1st,but it may lock in second with a noticable 300(or so) rpm drop while still accelerating.

WFO I'm going to nail you to the wall launch!: ON the street?Forget it,if you stall the converter above 2500rpm first gear will just spin,as soon as you lift the trans will shift up,2,3 bog....your done,you loose,it may back shift to second but it's too late your doing 30mph in second no stall converter will save you now.
On the track:With traction stall as you need but you must be sure the track can take it or you will get the 2,3 bog here too.In Indy as I said above I stalled to 2500 then nailed it on launch the R's jumped to about 3000-3500 and HUNG there until the road speed caught up to the engine speed then the R's started heading to 6200 and the 1-2 shift after the shift at about 5000rpm the converter locked pulling the engine RPM down about 300rpm the R's then climbed back to 6200 and the 2-3 shift without a rear end gear change I went through the lights in 3rd before the converter locked.

I've had my trans shift,torque converter lock up programming adjusted to compensate for how I drive.I do not claim anybody would want their transmission programmed the way I have mine and I'm not claiming it's BEST!
That said heres the way MY CAR is set up.

I found while just driving in OD the converter would lock and unlock with changes in road elevation or throttle position,this drove ME nuts.So I asked for and received a "tune" where once the converter locks in OD it does not unlock until about 75+% throttle application,then it down shifts to 3RD LOCKED,if more thrust is required the converter unlocks in 3rd and off you go.
Mine acts like a stick in 3rd and OD complete with engine braking,lift off the throttle and the converter stays locked until very low road speeds.
The reasoning I followed was, in OD unlocked the car just didn't "go",the R's climbed to 3500rpm and to me,just beat up the fluid for no reason.at this point just clicking off OD resulted in A LOT of acceleration.My request was I do not want the converter unlocked in OD.Thats pretty much what I got.

For best results IMHO the trans programming needs to be adjusted after a high stall converter is installed.

I added a seperate trans cooler and a Deep sump trans pan,with the trans temp sensor in the pan the highest temp I have seen is 180deg this was a lot of stop and go traffic on a 100+deg f day.
On the highway,to and from Indy,It never went above 150 the whole trip.

I hope this helped.

[Dan]

Wow! That was sooo helpful I am gald that I responded politely and caught you on a good day. :up:

Your write up makes a great basis for asking questions and finding out more.

Thanks.

Best,

Dan

PS: Do we have any guys who have gone with a Police Interceptor unit or an 04?

[cyclone03]

Wow! That was sooo helpful I am gald that I responded politely and caught you on a good day. :up:

Your write up makes a great basis for asking questions and finding out more.

Thanks.

Best,

Dan

PS: Do we have any guys who have gone with a Police Interceptor unit or an 04?

Wow I must be in a good mood heres some more....

When driving around 30-50mph med-hard I guess,on/off throttle 2nd gear the RPM spends a lot of time in the "stall' range 3000-4000rpm but I find it gains speed very well in this range.

[WantOneSoBad]

What would be the best TC for mainly city driving and lots of it, 25k-30k a year.

[cyclone03]

What would be the best TC for mainly city driving and lots of it, 25k-30k a year.

If you want to pick up about .5sec at the track,I like the PI stallion.Site sponser Dennis Reinhart.Has a good price on them.

BUTTTTTTT
To tell you the truth 3000 stall will be to much,you'll want to go tighter so IMHO I'd go with 4.10 gears and keep the stock converter.
Stop and go the fluid heats up quick,not bad like I said I only see 180 or so,but the 2000-3000rpm start and stops will drive you nuts and KILL any hope of breaking 15mpg around town.

You may want to call Pricision Industries and custom order your converter though,tell them how YOU use your car and see what they recomend.Then see if you can purchase the converter through DR,may save you a few bucks.

But like I said a set of gears and DR chip will make you happy around town.

[CRUZTAKER]

I like my PI Stallion 3000 alot. Programming changes are a must, and are variable to each users preferences.

These are pricey T/C's...but a little searching will yield a price FAR lower than the outragous price you have heard around here.