Rod knock

[2003 MIB]

It's bad...A horrible sound I don't wish on any of your ears.
I trailered the car from Joshua to Dallas and she's being diagnosed as we speak.
Under 17,000 miles. Anyone else done this yet or am I the first?

[Racerx88]

It's bad...A horrible sound I don't wish on any of your ears.
I trailered the car from Joshua to Dallas and she's being diagnosed as we speak.
Under 17,000 miles. Anyone else done this yet or am I the first?
Sorry to hear that man! Hope it's not what it sounds like. :bigcry:

[2003 MIB]

Thanks Dean,
Jared at J/E thinks that's what it is too. Carlos is looking at it now. It was strange how it happened- I wasn't driving hard or anything even close- just rolling down the road and it started knocking....very ugly.

[prchrman]

harmonic balancer can sound just like a rod...maybe if you is lucky...willie

[2003 MIB]

harmonic balancer
I hadn't thought of that, Willie...Thanks, man.

[Dr Caleb]

It's bad...A horrible sound I don't wish on any of your ears.
I trailered the car from Joshua to Dallas and she's being diagnosed as we speak.
Under 17,000 miles. Anyone else done this yet or am I the first?

I'd call that a Hoover since is sucks so bad. I too hope it's not a bad valve guide. Just FYI too - overhead cams = no rods ;)

[Racerx88]

I'd call that a Hoover since is sucks so bad. I too hope it's not a bad valve guide. Just FYI too - overhead cams = no rods ;)
Sorry but almost all engines have rods that connect the pistons to the crankshaft. I think you meant to say "no push rods". A rod knock will be a very solid constant knock from inside the block.

[Logan]

...and it sounds REALLY nasty when that happens...

[Racerx88]

...and it sounds REALLY nasty when that happens...
He's NOT kidding. I've been there twice myself. Keep us informed Dan, and let us know if you need any help with anything.

[Dr Caleb]

Sorry but almost all engines have rods that connect the pistons to the crankshaft. I think you meant to say "no push rods". A rod knock will be a very solid constant knock from inside the block.

Ahhhhhh! I underconstumble! Those rods! (yea, I was thinking push rod) :loco:

Oooooo, yea, that would sound like a gravel truck . .

[2003 MIB]

Thanks guys but I'm fine. I feel pretty smart about a few of things:
1) It's in Jared's hands. J/E can fix it.
2) I didn't drive it. Eventually they break even uglier than they sound.
3) When I rented the U-Haul and trailer, I took out every available insurance. A good friend had a bad experience with them.

Dr. C.- I had the same discussion about pushrods on the phone yesterday with the S/A.
" It sounds like a rod knock but I don't have rods.."
" Connecting rods, Dan. It'll sound really nasty if that's it."
" It sounds nasty- evil, broken, nasty."
" It's broken. Bring it in."

<Dan's quiet sobbing>

-The End_

[MarauderMark]

I hope it's not a knock .wouldn't want to wish that on anyone .if worse comes to worse maybe start checking into a cobra motor.just a thought. :twocents:

Merc had a new installed in his mm.i dont remeber why .Merc?! MERC!?

[2003 MIB]

There is one other thing...

Why did it break? I understand over-revving and things coming apart...I was just driving down the street to the corner store and BAM!

I change oil more often than I change socks...I change my mind about brands (Royal Purple, Amsoil, Motorcraft, Mobil 1) every time I read an oil thread...Just over 15,000 miles. I think I've done 7 oils changes.

Okay here's the weird part...Did I somehow create a problem by changing the oil diet of my car? What else makes the connecting rod break?

[TooManyFords]

I change oil more often than I change socks...

You must have some pretty pissed off shoes!! :banghead:

hehehe!

[Smokie]

Dan, sorry to hear about the knock, a broken connecting rod would very loud and I don't believe due to changing oil brands. Possibly severe detonation or overevving combined with lack of lubrication.

Most likely a flaw in the casting, or a rod cap came loose, seen that happen. the pin that connects rod to piston could also be the problem.

Anyway without hearing the knock is all pure speculation, one thing I am sure about, I don't know if you have U/D pulleys; if you do and it is loose or over tightened, the dealer may want to blame the whole thing on them...be careful. Javier.

[merc]

I hope it's not a knock .wouldn't want to wish that on anyone .if worse comes to worse maybe start checking into a cobra motor.just a thought. :twocents:

Merc had a new installed in his mm.i dont remeber why .Merc?! MERC!?

I was trying to look for the tread about my engine problems Mark but I remembered that I asked to have the tread deleted. Anyway, my problem was badly blued cam lobs, which lead to a cam stall. The result of the cam stall was a broken chain on the head containing the number eight piston. According to the service manager this kind of problem rarely happens but there is some history on this issue. My problem occurred while I was making a 10 mph turn and coming to a stop. The check engine light appeared at the stoplight and the engine became silent. Upon restart the engine sounded like it was failing apart and I felt that I was driving a four cylinder with 10 H.P., basically a lawnmower

[rumble]

Why did it break?Okay here's the weird part...Did I somehow create a problem by changing the oil diet of my car? What else makes the connecting rod break?


Dan, my experience is that the rod itself normally doesn't
actually break. What happens is the bearing insert gets pounded out causing to much clearance between it and the crankshaft thus causing the knock. The more clearance the louder the knock. Nearly all the time in normal street driving it is caused by some type of oil or oil pressure failure. Either the pump went south, the oil was not changed (obviously not in your case), the engine was ran low on oil or maybe something just obstructed the oil passage. One other option is that the rod bearing insert was defective (soft) and it has given way. The only way to tell for sure is to drop the oil pan and pull the rod caps off the rods for inspection. Until this is done we are all engaging in conjecture. Before condemning the crankshaft and or rod bearings I would have to wait for that inspection. Obviously nothing is impossible but our crankshafts and rod assembly's seem pretty well bullet proof. Note all of the 400+ HP engines running stock bottom ends without any rod bearing failure.
Please keep us informed and may your warranty protect you. Also if we can help in any way let us know.

You have a lot of friends holding their breath until we hear for sure.
Gary

[BUCKWHEAT]

It's bad...A horrible sound I don't wish on any of your ears.
I trailered the car from Joshua to Dallas and she's being diagnosed as we speak.
Under 17,000 miles. Anyone else done this yet or am I the first?


Dan, Ouch! If you need a car, take mine. I can drive the Mustang for awhile. Question: If your car is broken, does that make mine the fastest n/a in North Texas? If so, you can still be driving the fastest....etc.

Just let me know.

John

[SergntMac]

Okay here's the weird part...Did I somehow create a problem by changing the oil diet of my car? What else makes the connecting rod break?
I know what it feels like to look at your broken MM and say (maybe out loud) "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it."

No real value in speculating on cause right now, and rather than wonder if you have done anything wrong as an owner, remember that the MM engine is mass produced on a production line that functions as well, and as poorly, as the final MM production line. We've seen enough of their screw-ups to know, nothing mass produced will be perfect.

Knowing an exact cause will be comforting when that gets here, meanwhile...Sometimes things break without it being anyone's fault.

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Keep your fingers crossed. There have been a number of good ideas in this thread as to what it might be but as many have said it is all just guessing until the dig into it. Hopefully it is something simple and it is almost certainly a warranty issue. I am 99.99% certain the problem was nit becuase you tried a few different oil brands. No way.

Good Luck getting it figured out.

Don

[Redster]

Good Luck getting it figured out.

Don[/QUOTE]

Oh, man, what a bummer. Not to make light of your situation but I did see an ad on Ebay for a 04 MM with s/c and 680 miles at David McDavid in Dallas. Maybe it's time for a trade. It really made me think about that possiblity, but I will probably chicken out.

[2003 MIB]

I know what it feels like to look at your broken MM and say (maybe out loud) "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it."
OMG!- I actually did do this- OUT LOUD!!!!! That's exactly where I'm at, Mac!!!!!! Are you staking out my carport????:beer:

Yes, I do have underdrives but they were dealer-installed so I'm not too worried about warranty issues AT THIS POINT.

I don't drive the car every day and I'm cruising in my little pickup but thanks, Big John. :cool:

I do feel better about the oil diet now. It was the only variable that could imagine :loco: and just wanted some opinions- Thanks Folks!

Gary's right too...there are lots of S/C MMs running stock bottom ends with no issues.

No check engine light has come on- just the nasty noise...I'll give Jared a shout in a few hours. I'll keep y'all posted and thanks for the support!

[martyo]

Dan: Any news? I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that it is nothing serious. Or, that it is so serious they throw a free, brand new motor in your car!

Keep us posted Buddy!

[TooManyFords]

With short blocks running 40 bucks, have them put one in the truck too!

I'm with Marty though, hope it isn't too serious and you're back on the road soon.

John

[2003 MIB]

Update:

It is a broken rod on the #8 cylinder. The course of action is likely a new engine. An engineer from Ford is coming to autopsy the damage and determine if the dealer installed DR chip is the root cause of the failure. If not, it's a warranty replacement- if so, we will begin to fight about the bill. The redline isn't modified with the Reinhart Stage 1 so I don't really think there's going to be an issue. The car's never been over-revved. All should be fine but I wait to hear more before relaxing.

[TooManyFords]

Man, I hope it doesn't come to a fight.

Good luck! :o

[BillyGman]

I know I'm arriving late to this thread, but I hope all goes well for you. In light of the fact that the chip you've used does NOT raise the rev limiter, then as far as I know, the worst case scenario would be that it had the engine running lean, and even if that was true, I think that would cause cracked, or melted pistons, or a blown head gasket waaaay before it would cuase anything like a broken connecting rod. However I'm not implying that the chip you've used is known for causing a lean condition, but what I'm saying is I don't believe that Ford can rightfully claim that the chip was the cause of the connecting rod failure. Please keep us updated on this. I'm routing for you!!!!!

[jaywish]

I happen to have a copy of a Ford technical publication which instructs the dealership techs on with what to do with warranty engine failures.


I don't think I can quote it since it is copywrited but here are my words.

The tech is instructed to:

#1) check the fluids.

#2 check for user mods.

then go on to identify something caused by ford.

Jay

[2003 WIB]

[QUOTE=2003 MIB]
I change oil more often than I change socks...

Since when did you start wearing socks?

[2003 WIB]

Update:

It is a broken rod on the #8 cylinder. The course of action is likely a new engine. An engineer from Ford is coming to autopsy the damage and determine if the dealer installed DR chip is the root cause of the failure. If not, it's a warranty replacement- if so, we will begin to fight about the bill. The redline isn't modified with the Reinhart Stage 1 so I don't really think there's going to be an issue. The car's never been over-revved. All should be fine but I wait to hear more before relaxing.
I guess that means The Black Pearl won't be home for awhile. I'm so sorry. I knew this was going to be hard on you but I didn't realize how hard until I found you sleeping with the extra set of Marauder keys last night.

[2003 MIB]

[QUOTE=2003 MIB] Since when did you start wearing socks?:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm sorry folks. The milk of human compassion does not flow through my wife's veins. Thanks for not telling them I sleep with the Marauder keys under my pillow...

[rumble]

Dan, when J/E gets it apart can you post a picture
of the broken rod? If the actual connecting rod it self
broke I would be very suspicious of a structural flaw.

[2003 WIB]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm sorry folks. The milk of human compassion does not flow through my wife's veins. Thanks for not telling them I sleep with the Marauder keys under my pillow...
OOPS!!!! Too Late!

[2003 MIB]

Dan, when J/E gets it apart can you post a picture
of the broken rod? If the actual connecting rod it self
broke I would be very suspicious of a structural flaw.
I'll try to do that, Gary. I hope you're right- it makes sense.

[Logan]

Dan, don't worry about it. JE will take care of you. It's what they do. If you have any problems, call me and I'll speak with the powers that be. I really don't think you'll be having any issues with them though.

[Racerx88]

I guess that means The Black Pearl won't be home for awhile. I'm so sorry. I knew this was going to be hard on you but I didn't realize how hard until I found you sleeping with the extra set of Marauder keys last night.
And you guys wonder why I don't let LadyX post here.

Dan, sorry to hear it WAS a rod. Logan's right about J/E - they'll take care of it.

[2003 MIB]

Dan, don't worry about it. JE will take care of you. It's what they do. If you have any problems, call me and I'll speak with the powers that be. I really don't think you'll be having any issues with them though.
Actually Logan, I had every intention of using you as a resource if things turn ugly. I was holding back- whining to you now would be premature. I view my relationship with you akin to carrying a .44 magnum...You only get a few shots but they will be very effective aimed in the right direction. It's not time to unhoslter and use up my shots but thanks...:2thumbs:

[2003 MIB]

Logan- Please check PMs...I'm "breaking leather".

[Logan]

10-4..........

[2003 WIB]

Logan- Please check PMs...I'm "breaking leather".
Uh-Oh......I'll have the JD with 4 ice cubes ready when you get home.

[MAD-3R]

We are here for you. I also have been in a simalar situation. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

The biggest concern is that with engine replacements, FORD sends a tech to look things over, and with the aftermarket pullies on your block, dealer installed or not, it can spell doom, DOOM I SAY!!, for your warenty.

[Brutus]

Uh-Oh......I'll have the JD with 4 ice cubes ready when you get home.

Jewels!! Do you see this!!! Take some notes...................:beer:

[rumble]

Dan, call me @ 469-951-5252
Gary

[Dennis Reinhart]

It's bad...A horrible sound I don't wish on any of your ears.
I trailered the car from Joshua to Dallas and she's being diagnosed as we speak.
Under 17,000 miles. Anyone else done this yet or am I the first?

It very well could be a carbon knock I just had the exact same thing and a top engine, cleaning and the knock went away :2thumbs:

[2003 MIB]

First of all, much thanks to all who provided support and advice- I'd have been lost without the PMs and phone calls. I'm ready to start the recovery process:

BAD NEWS: It was a broken connecting rod on #8. Ford says your mods= no warranty. The short version of the "party line" is: you've got a chip that removed the rev limiter and the engine over rev'd. I want to be VERY clear about something: Dennis Reinhart does not remove nor overwrite the rev limiter with his chip- as far as I know, no one does. I am proud to have done business with Dennis and satisfied with EVERY item I have ever purchased from him- this is not his chip's fault. I'll buy DR stuff again and encourage anyone who wants to modify his/her car to do the same. I'm just telling the story with nothing left out- even the stupid Ford things. The baseline quote for an engine replacement was $7300.00. YIKES!
The next step was data collection. Rumble (THANKS!) told me about the M/M act regarding modifications and warranty. I'm not going to pursue this avenue (keep reading).
Then it was time to call "The Boss"...Logan finds a 2003 Marauder take-out engine for $995.00. He also works some magic and called in a favor with the President of my dealership (John Eagle L/M in Dallas). At the end of the day, I'll have a replacement engine with Manley H or I (haven't decided) connecting rods for about $1600. I'll also have the broken engine to part out or rebuild. Sonny @ John Eagle is cutting me a sweetheart deal on the labor.
I'm probably going to be out less than $4000.00 by the time all is said and done (shipping,labor etc...). Okay 2003 WIB- maybe $5000.00 but anything "extra" is just to make the engine stronger- I promise.
It sucks that it happened but part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your actions. I asked for the mods. and I've enjoyed them. No one made me do that. I knew there could be some issues and now I've had one. Another cool thing is the wife didn't bat an eye at the credit card impact (I love you, Coli- you're the best).
Would this have been worse if I didn't have Logan and the community behind me? YES! Would it have been worse if I had a dealer that was a jerk? YES!
Am I bitter? NOT A BIT!- I think those of you who know me, know it it's a matter of time before a power adder is added. A stronger bottom end would have been on my list anyway. I feel lucky to have y'all in my life and I just ready to get back on the road....:)

[TAF]

Great post Dan. I'm sorry to see it come to this, but glad to see you got hooked-up. Yep...there are 179 threads about mods and Warranty...and in the end...you put it best above. Ya play, ya pay. Just glad you don't have to pay the full tab. It could have easily been any one of us...and for the record...you're absolutely correct...I haven't seen a program/chip/tune yet that removes the rev limiter.

[2003 MIB]

Great post Dan. I'm sorry to see it come to this, but glad to see you got hooked-up. Yep...there are 179 threads about mods and Warranty...and in the end...you put it best above. Ya play, ya pay. Just glad you don't have to pay the full tab. It could have easily been any one of us...and for the record...you're absolutely correct...I haven't seen a program/chip/tune yet that removes the rev limiter.
Soooo, Todd (Dan hinted quietly without breaking any of the S/P guidelines)- Do you have an opinion on H vs. I connecting rods?

[TAF]

Soooo, Todd (Dan hinted quietly without breaking any of the S/P guidelines)- Do you have an opinion on H vs. I connecting rods?
the answer is in your thread....

[Logan]

Manley H-Beams. 'nuff said. Damn near indestructable stuff. Used by most popular mod motor engine builders.

[2003 MIB]

Manley H-Beams. 'nuff said. Damn near indestructable stuff. Used by most popular mod motor engine builders.
That's enough for me...Would you please close out the other thread when you get a chance? Thanks.
Thanks again for all your help on this deal, logan- YOU ROCK!
I went to see the car today (quite sad) and drop off notes to Jared and Sonny. I ran into Sam & Diane and also saw Steve's car on the rack. No pictures- the car's not in pieces yet.

[rumble]

Dan, you said "not in pieces." They have dropped the pan though? Right?

[2003 MIB]

Dan, you said "not in pieces." They have dropped the pan though? Right?
Yes, they've dropped the pan and put it back in place while I decided what to do...And there was this really cool tool that someone left sitting on the left valve cover- it looks like a bore scope for inspecting gun barrels but was flexible- I guess that's how they looked inside the combustion chamber to verify the runaway piston's impact to the spark plug.

[rumble]

Yeah, that's exactly what it is, a flexible bore scope. Not to be morbid
but I have seen a lot of dead engines but I am still eager to see that connecting rod.
I have seen broken rods before but I am still puzzled as to what exactly
went wrong. Ford just saying the rod broke because of over revving brings
up a lot of questions and no answers. I know you are 'taking this like a man"
because you have that type of character that everyone admires, you blame
no one else when things go wrong even when that someone else is the one
the "screwed the pooch" for you. To bad politicians usually lack that trait.

See you at Chucks next Saturday??

[Logan]

Ford's policies limit how much information regarding the full context in which a claim is denied from being disseminated...

[rumble]

Ford's policies limit how much information regarding the full context in which a claim is denied from being disseminated...

CYA all the way.

[martyo]

Ford's policies limit how much information regarding the full context in which a claim is denied from being disseminated...

Logan, do you mean from Ford to the owner or from the owner to others?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Well Dan I would never just settle for this they have to prove this caused the failure, I would contact Steve Babcock, and I would never replace the motor as stock if you are forced to do this out of pockett, again under the Magnoson act they cannot void the warranty unless its proven any ones chip cauased this failure, why not call me Monday I will try and help with this. this could have happened with no chip at all I would not let them do any thing with the rod in question it may have been a bad rod, period.

[BillyGman]

Incase Logan decides to close that other thread per your request, then I'll post the same thing in here that I have over there....

despite the popularity of H-beam rods, Oliver rods are some of the best around, and they happen to be I-beam rods. However, their design is superior to other I-beam rods. I recommend them, and if I ever rebuild the bottom end of my Marauder engine, the Oliver rods are definately the ones I'd use, hands down.

[Logan]

Despite best intentions, there's more going on than can be discussed in an open forum.