Line Lock / Torque Control

[Dan]

I did a bit more research on the B&M line lock.

I spoke with a tech rep whose name is JD. This guy was almost as useless as a second appendix. There was no elaboration in any of his answers to any of my questions and he barely spoke loud enough to be heard. Not good, IMHO.

Anyway.... since B&M hasn't tested the product on the Marauder or the CT they cannot say for sure that it will work. They did say that it "should work." I was told that if our cars have a dual diagonal split braking system that we would need to purchase two, one for each line in our cars brake system.

I also asked about whether or not there is any variability in the pressure. An example would be when you were wanting to being moving slowly but not fast enough to end your burnout. He said that it was on or off and that was it.

So there it is. I am going to continue my research in this. I was underwhelmed with the tech support B&M gave me and will use their solution only if it is my only choice.

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

I forgot to ask. Does anyone know what type of brake system we have?

[TooManyFords]

Hydraulic? :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm sure you need two locks; one for each front wheel. The anti-lock brake system requires them to be operated independently. When you get a quote on a kit, let us all know as I am very interested in this mod as well. ;)

Thanks

John

[Smokie]

Hydraulic? :rolleyes: JohnNow that's funny !!!:rofl:

[Dan]

Hydraulic? :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm sure you need two locks; one for each front wheel. The anti-lock brake system requires them to be operated independently. When you get a quote on a kit, let us all know as I am very interested in this mod as well. ;)

Thanks

John

The answer would be dual diagonal or something else. :)

While your statement is probably correct I am not quite sure that its logic applies to the question.

I am sure that TAF would know this one like the back of his hand.

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

Oh, yeah. I found out that the pricing for a single kit is around $69.00.

[TooManyFords]

Regardless of the technical term, because of the independent nature of the front brakes (IE: not run from a T connector to each wheel) you need two solenoids, one per wheel to make it work right.

I would put them on the hard lines just before the connector to the soft lines to the disks. That way, in case there was a problem with them, you won't have brake fluid all over the inside of the engine compartment.

That's how I set them up on my 67 390 GT Mustang.

John

[RCSignals]

I am sure that TAF would know this one like the back of his hand.


Why would Todd know??

[RCSignals]

At MV2 I wondered why our more serious 'racers' didn't have line lock.
It looked like the SS guys did

[Bradley G]

My understanding is that the MM has four channel antiloc with a EBD electronic brake distribution to keep equal line pressure at each wheel I think Too Many Fords is right 2 will be required for the system to function properly or I'm not:bs: signed Brad Sinclair
The answer would be dual diagonal or something else. :)

While your statement is probably correct I am not quite sure that its logic applies to the question.

I am sure that TAF would know this one like the back of his hand.

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

Why would Todd know??

Isn't he our resident brake expert?

[RCSignals]

Isn't he our resident brake expert?

ah, OK, TCE Todd. Yes he should know.

[martyo]

ah, OK, TCE Todd. Yes he should know.

See what happens when you're a smart azz?

[Dan]

Yeah, I said TAF and meant to say TCE Todd. Sorry bout that.

But still, see what happens when you're a smart azz? :) :D

Best,

Dan

[RCSignals]

See what happens when you're a smart azz?


Dan wasn't being a smart azz :hankie:

[Dan]

Oh, a wise guy, nyuk,nyuk,nyuk,nyuk. :)

[TooManyFords]

Hey mercman...

No need to delete so many posts so quickly! And as far as I'm concerned, I laughed at Macs first attempt at humor and what you left is worse than what -he- left!

Seems the moderators need moderating.... :shake:

[martyo]

Seems the moderators need moderating.... :shake:


So many buttons, so little thought in pushing them......

[MERCMAN]

So many buttons, so little thought in pushing them......

Its a thankless job, but if it keeps things on track, I suppose that should be thanks enough. Sorry:(

[TooManyFords]

Its a thankless job, but if it keeps things on track, I suppose that should be thanks enough. Sorry:(

:banghead:

[SergntMac]

Man-oh man, I was just joking around... I thought TMF would laugh too. Guess not, so, screw this. Just remove the whole post, it looks silly with the punch line missing.

Dayum...

[TooManyFords]

For the record mac, I -did- laugh! I've already scolded mercman for being too quick on the buttons today.

chill.

[TooManyFords]

Now that this thread is back on track...

I got t-shirts to print and a sleeping bag and "Will work harder than that other bum" signs to carry in front of Wal-Mart...
:rolleyes:

[martyo]

Now that this thread is back on track...

I got t-shirts to print and a sleeping bag and "Will work harder than that other bum" signs to carry in front of Wal-Mart...
:rolleyes:


:lol: :lol: :cowboy:

[Dan]

What was this thread about in the first place?

Oh yeah, a line lock.

There is a thread about a 300C drifting that is found elsewhere on this site.

The idea for this line lock is rooted in this idea. What I would really like was what I saw in car and driver a few months ago where they had an article about drifting. The car had a special braking lever in it that, (if I recall correctly) locked the front wheels as you pushed it forward and the rears as you pulled it back.

This special lever and line locking device is the ultimate solution for drifting our cars and making drift videos that will just kill! I have been looking for this solution on the net but I cannot find anything. Apparently it is custom made.

I would appreciate it if the rest of you can help me out with my research. If anyone has that old article, please reread it and try to get any phone numbers that you might find in it that I can call to find out more about this drift lever. Any other help researching on the net would also be appreciated.

Best,

Dan

[TooManyFords]

What you are looking for Dan, is to put the line locks on the REAR corners and then activate them with the brakes OFF. Leave the locks engaged and then your brake pedal will only work with the front brakes. When you want to return to normal braking, turn the locks off.

I belive this will give you what you want.

John

[martyo]

What you are looking for Dan, is to put the line locks on the REAR corners and then activate them with the brakes OFF. Leave the locks engaged and then your brake pedal will only work with the front brakes. When you want to return to normal braking, turn the locks off.

I belive this will give you what you want.

John


John. This makes sense to me if the locks can be used to lock on or lock off the brakes. Is that how they work?

This information would be helpful because I think Todd is setting his car up for drifting. :puke:

[Dan]

Cool. I never thought about the idea in that manner. Yes, it would do the trick but I am really looking for something like that lever actuated system.

Let me see if I get what you are saying. By actuating the rear installed locks with the brakes OFF I am preventing the hydraulic force of the system from actuating the rear brakes. Is that correct? If that is all it would take that would make for a real drifter of a Marauder.

Best,

Dan

[TooManyFords]

Marty, that is correct. A line lock is simply a valve in the brake line that is electrically operated and has two positions, ON and OFF. When ON, the valve is closed and nothing gets past it.

So, if you have your foot on the brakes and all the calipers are under pressure and you flip the switch. All the pressure from the line lock to the calipers remains when you lift your foot from the brake pedal. When you turn the locks off, the valve opens and the fluid under pressure at the calipers is released back into the system and the brakes release.

This logic applies to the concept Dan is looking for by engaging the locks before pressing the pedal keeping any line pressure from reaching the calipers and effectively disabling the brakes to that wheel.

What Dan is describing would be interesting to see on the car he is thinking about. I'm not sure how I would plumb the brake lines to work on a lever system and still leave the existing system intact.

John

[martyo]

What Dan is describing would be interesting to see on the car he is thinking about. I'm not sure how I would plumb the brake lines to work on a lever system and still leave the existing system intact.

Cars are purpose built for drifting. I don't think the concept wil translate well for a street legal Marauder.

Those are just my thoughts though.

[BillyGman]

I like doing burnouts, and very often I'm pretty hard on the go pedal, but I think things like dougnuts, and drifting, are pretty hard on the wheels, and might even result in bending them, and perhaps even messing up the wheel bearings too. Just something to think about. Spinning the tires w/the steering wheel turned is also pretty destructive to the limited slip unit in the rear end.

[Dan]

Marty,

I agree and would add that cars are purpose built for drifting competitions. With that in mind I don't really have any illusions about where the Marauder would stand in this regard. I just want to make some killer video. :)

Best,

Dan

[martyo]

I just want to make some killer video.

Gotchya! :2thumbs:

[TripleTransAm]

Cars are purpose built for drifting. I don't think the concept wil translate well for a street legal Marauder.


But you can bet your limited-slip diff that it would be the COOLEST thing on the planet to see! Given that drifting is the in thing, I can tell you that the young 'uns out there would pee their pants while drooling over a drifting Marauder. Man, I'd drive a LONG way just to be able to get one on film/tape/video/etc...

Drifting is the latest ****z... while it hasn't locally taken hold yet, I personally know the guy who won the 2001 or 2002 Amateur class of the Canadian drifting competition, and he and a colleague put on a demonstration at a local oval track during the 'half-time' of the Cummins 150, last Saturday. The local F-body club did the parade laps of the oval, including a few hi-jinks here and there (yes, the old GTA can still spin the tires practically off the rims when showing off! :up:) but after the F-cars left the track and the drifters came out in full glory, the crowd went APE!!!

Most of them had never even heard of drifting (it was mostly a Nascar-type crowd, due to the stock-car nature of the event) but it was truly impressive. These two RWD Nissans were doing lap times of just 30-40% longer than the all-out stock cars, but they were doing them CONSTANTLY SIDEWAYS!!! I was in the pits during the display, and the stock car racers were really surprised to see how these cars could pull lap times like this, at constant 45-50 degree angles to the direction of travel, and mere INCHES away from each other! (450-460 rear wheel horsepower in a light package makes for a killer ride... my cousin who helped tune the winner car has had the car a few weekends now and again, and I've witnessed the car fishtail in 4th gear at 60 mph shortly after you floor it!)

Anything this brutal has GOT to be respected! :up:

[martyo]

Anything this brutal has GOT to be respected!


Okay /Stve, now that you put it that way, I take back my :puke: from my other post. Thanks for setting me straight! :2thumbs:

[Dan]

I can drift. :burn: I don't know about competitively but I have spent an inordinate amount of time driving while steering with the rear wheels. I have to do more research on which line lock is the right one for our cars.

Anyway, once the lock is in I am quite sure that I will be done with these old tires. :)

Best,

Dan

[TripleTransAm]

I can drift. :burn: I don't know about competitively but I have spent an inordinate amount of time driving while steering with the rear wheels.


As soon as I get my home desktop up and running, I'll post the photos someone took with my camera. This wasn't a photography buff by any means, but I did set up my camera to shoot in RAW mode, allowing for a great deal of 'rescue' capability with the nighttime shots. I've 'developed' a few, and it's quite an impressive show. One event will totally destroy a set of rear tires.

One of the moves that Marco (the owner of the drifter I described above) did NOT get a chance to perform was the 'Rodeo' (I don't know if he coined the term, but that's what he said). He lets out the clutch in 2nd at idle, hops on the window sill, then reaches down to the accelerator with his (I imagine) right foot and floors it. The car loses it immediately then begins to do donuts as he straddles the window sill and waves his left arm about as if he's riding a bull at a rodeo! It's really something else to behold, but unfortunately time constraints cut their performance short and he was unable to get to that portion of the exhibition programme.

edit:
I seem to have made a mistake with the year in which Marco won the competition... I guess it was 2003 after all, I thought more than a year had gone by.
http://www.driftnation.com/Events/SignalDE2003/DriftNation2_43.jpg
I spotted his car entry about 2/3 down this page: Marco Santos.
http://www.driftnation.com/Events/DriftBattle/DriverRoster/index2.php
Noteworthy is the Mustang entry near the top!

I know Pontiac is investing heavily in this 'sport' with the new GTO, with Rhys Millen driving. Although I regret their decision to exit Nascar altogether (even though they were not really competitive lately, with drivers jumping ship left and right), they are at least tuning in to what might well be the automotive sport preference of today's youth.

[RCSignals]

Marty needs line lock for his drag car

[martyo]

Marty needs line lock for his drag car

Duncan: I agree. Would you please start a thread and ask each of the site members to throw 10 bucks my way?

[Dan]

Back on topic.

I have continued researching this and am not on to looking at adjustable brake proportioning controls. Stay tuned.

Best,

Dan

[CRUZTAKER]

I met a retired fellow at the track last night with a supercharged lightning and a Summit Racing line lock system.

He will be installing one on my MM in a few weeks.

There is really nothing to it, and a quick easy install, one small module in the engine bay, and re-routing one of the break lines from the master cylinder. The trick is...once installed, and one knows they are gonna use it, pull the fuse for the ABS system, and the computer will not try to take over.

Works incredibly well.

Total estimated cost = $105.00