Improve low end grunt? [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

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08-30-2004, 12:30 AM

Just got my 2004 Marauder, 300 miles driven. I like the car alot, shifts well, but I would like to improve initial take off, lackingbottom end torque. Any suggestions? 4:10's or 4:56's? Smaller diameter tires?

Ralph Sr.

With only 300 miles on her, I would tell you to wait.
My 2004 MM broke in very nicely at about 5000 miles.
The edge you are looking for begins when the engine breaks in.
At 300 miles, you are not going to see the same level of performance as you will at 5,000 or 10,000 miles.

So in the meantime, when you get to 1000 miles, drop the oil, fill it with Mobil1 0W20, and keep driving it until you feel the engine break in.
Then you can do all the mods you'd like.

My 2004 MM is quicker now, at 14,000 miles, than she was the day she came home from the dealer.

BillyGman

08-30-2004, 01:28 AM

Ralph, since you've received all kinds of helpful suggestions from a number of board members here in this thread, I'm going to make mention of the following list of 0-60 MPH times that I recorded using my G-tech G-meter device all on the exact same stretch of level highway close to where I live while there was no taffic in the wee hours of the morning, and ofcourse always on dry pavement. I've compiled the following list to monitor exactly how much difference in the rate of acceleration that many of the modifications that I've done to my car have actually made. That way, you and others who haven't yet modified their Marauder yet, and who might be interested in doing so, will get a better idea of just what each modification has done for my Marauder. Enjoy.......

0-60 MPH times:

factory stock-7.0/6.8 seconds (the difference after break-in)

4.10 ring & pinion
gears combined
w/chip- 6.3 seconds

4.56 ring & pinion- 5.7 seconds

Stallion torque
converter w/3,000 RPM stall
& Kooks headers w/complete
exhaust package combined- 4.9 seconds

Trilogy Motorsports
Supercharger kit & drag radials- 4.25 seconds (on the street)

Also keep in mind that although the biggest difference in the 0-60 MPH times did NOT occur after I installed the Supercharger, that's simply due to the limits of the rear tire traction from a dead start having already been exceeded prior to the Supercharger installation. So simply looking at the 0-60 MPH times can be deceiving as far as the S/Cer results go. The fact is that the greatest overall power gain and acceleration gain that I obtained was from the S/Cer which is evident in the total of a 1.6 second quartermile ET reduction at the track from the S/Cer alone. And that was the biggest single ET reduction that I obtained out of any of the modifications that I've performed to this car.

While the gear changes, and the addition of the aftermarket torque converter helped a lot to increase the low-end acceleration of the car (especially from 0-30 MPH) the Trilogy roots type S/Cer helped tremendously too, but not only down low in the RPM scale like the gears and converter did, but also throughout the midrange and high RPM's too. Which ofcourse is the reason that I'm turning the kind of ET's that are listed in my signature below.

So I hope that the list of 0-60 numbers above will help you and others w/your future modification decisions. Perhaps you might like to compare the above times w/the times of some other cars that the magazines list. Assuming that they don't exaggerate them from time to time. If you want to be able to spin the tires from a dead punch (w/out the use of the brake pedal), then getting the 4.10 gears, a chip, or SCT tuner, along w/the addition of the Stallin Torque converter w/the stall speed set to 3,000 RPM's will do the trick using the factory stock tires.

And if you want to perform that same type of dead punch, and smoke up the tires through first gear, and well into second gear, then you'll need the Supercharger for that. :banana2:

Smokie

08-30-2004, 05:04 AM

Just got my 2004 Marauder, 300 miles driven. I like the car alot, shifts well, but I would like to improve initial take off, lackingbottom end torque. Any suggestions? 4:10's or 4:56's? Smaller diameter tires?

Ralph Sr.You have recieved a lot of good advise, I don't know where your level of satisfaction lies, if you are concerned at all with not putting your warranty at risk; then I would recommend a PCM flash or a dyno/tune flash. I emphasize flash because it is invisible to the dealer (no physical alterations) and the results are very noticeable, some cars have been known to run a 1/4 mile in about 14.5 seconds on the flash alone.

Welcome to our forum and best of luck with your decision.

hbarrett

08-30-2004, 06:50 PM

Bradley G

08-30-2004, 07:06 PM

I felt the same way you do;) relax the car is just getting to know you.Mine is just comming alive now at 9kwith just a flash :rock: tune so far

hbarrett

08-30-2004, 07:13 PM

Where does one get this flash? I have spoken with DR, and he wants to sell 410s, plugs, thermo, and flash. I paid enough for this car, and am reluctant to do these mods. I just want a street car that performs like a V8 should, not like a V6 at best. Can a flash be done by the dealer, or do I have to take it some garage half way across the US? I like the car, but find I am getting very frustrated very quickly. This car is nothing like I expected. Wish I had kept my 2000 HPP CV. Thanks.
Howard
You have recieved a lot of good advise, I don't know where your level of satisfaction lies, if you are concerned at all with not putting your warranty at risk; then I would recommend a PCM flash or a dyno/tune flash. I emphasize flash because it is invisible to the dealer (no physical alterations) and the results are very noticeable, some cars have been known to run a 1/4 mile in about 14.5 seconds on the flash alone.

Welcome to our forum and best of luck with your decision.

BillyGman

08-30-2004, 07:18 PM

I bought my 2004 three months ago and have been generally disappointed in its performance in just about every way. Merc's claim of it being a "muscle car" is total BS. It is the best looking big sedan I've owned, both inside and out, but it is no performer. It does a poor job of delivering the HP and TQ through low speed and the low end of the rpm range (which happens to be most of the driving situation), although better above 70 mph. Overall, I am disappointed with this "slug". Sorry!

I agree w/you that it is a very good looking car, and I don't think that it should be taken for granted. IMO, there are very few cars that are made these days that really have nice looking body styles.They either look like a brick on wheels, or like a jellybean on wheels. The Marauder beats all of them hands down in looks. The only new cars that I've seen that look even as good as the Marauder all cost atleast double the price. There are a few new models that other manufactures have now come out with that are more peppy off the line than the Marauder is, but IMO opinion they all look like garbage and have an eye-sore body style. And you cannot change a bad body style. However, you can change the way your car performs.

That's why I've S/ced my car w/a roots type blower. You'll get fantastic low-end grunt. More than just about any production car that you'll ever see on the street does. yeah, it costs a good buck to purchase such a modification, but in the end you'll still have one of the absolute fastest cars on the street for well under 40K invested, and the thing already looks better than any other production car does for under 60K (IMO).So how can you beat that? That's the way I see it. I'm not here to sell anything. I'm not a vendor, but just a regular board member like you. but I just liike to share w/other members how much fun this car is to drive now that it's S/Ced. I do not exaggerate.

MM03MOK

08-30-2004, 07:33 PM

Howard - most of us felt the same way when we first got into our cars. The shift points just didn't seem right. What Dennis told you is right on. The first thing we did was the flash/thermo/plugs. Those combined made a noticable difference and perfected the shifting. If you go for the gears, you'll need a flash to correct the speedometer difference. Dennis and other vendors sell the SCT handheld tuner and it can be set up for your exact needs, sent right to your door. http://www.superchipscustom.com/car_info.php

There are a few Members in MD. Maybe they'll chime in here. You can meet up with them at their next meet and get a real feel of what us 2%'ers are doing to our Marauders (2%'ers = modding the car.)

BillyGman

08-30-2004, 07:42 PM

we might be "2%-ers" among the total amount of Marauder owners nationwide, but amongst Marauder owners who are on this board, it's a pretty big piece of the pie who have modified their cars to make them faster, especially off the line. I was disappointed that after driving a 2000 Grand Marquis that was for sale for 12K at a used car lot, and being able to spin the tires from a dead punch of the gas pedal for a good 30 feet, when I bought the Marauder that was advertised in the video DVD that the dealer gave me doing burnouts, that the car wouldn't even leave any rubber at all. I couldn't believe it!!

But like I've previously stated, that's taken care of w/the addition of the rear end gears, chip, and the Stallion Torque converter w/a 3,000 RPM stall speed. It wakes the car up off the line. But ofcourse I then wanted more. ;)

hbarrett

08-30-2004, 07:49 PM

I have 4000 miles now and I find that it is performing about the same or probably less than when I bought it. I was excited at the very beginning when I test drove it, but it seems to be slowly dying. After owning it for three months, I don't even enjoy getting in it and driving down the road any more, but I have to get to work somehow! Forget any kind of performance with the A/C on, and nearly as poor performance without the A/C on. I refuse to accept that this car was built with the intentions that everyone was supposed to go out and buy gears, sc, chips, thermostats, and tcs, just to get it to run normal. I am concerned with the cost of all this stuff and the warranty issues. I guess that I am just perplexed and frustrated by it all.
Howard
With only 300 miles on her, I would tell you to wait.
My 2004 MM broke in very nicely at about 5000 miles.
The edge you are looking for begins when the engine breaks in.
At 300 miles, you are not going to see the same level of performance as you will at 5,000 or 10,000 miles.

So in the meantime, when you get to 1000 miles, drop the oil, fill it with Mobil1 0W20, and keep driving it until you feel the engine break in.
Then you can do all the mods you'd like.

My 2004 MM is quicker now, at 14,000 miles, than she was the day she came home from the dealer.

BillyGman

08-30-2004, 07:56 PM

Howard, the computer reflash would be a good move for you. Over and obove that, I think that the bottom line is that the engines of these cars will make more power than the CV,s and Marquis' will, but will do so higher up in the RPM scale. If you were to put a Marauder up against your 2000 CV side by side and run them, your old CV might get the Marauder off the line, but after about 40MPH it would be all over for the CV because the Marauder would absolutely pull ahead. that's how these cars are, and if you cannot live w/that, then you just have to modify them.

HwyCruiser

08-30-2004, 09:17 PM

Ford/Mercury provided us a very luxurious canvas for us to build anything from a capable touring sedan to a suprisingly fast dragstrip warrior depending on your pocketbook and thurst for performance. Just don't let their misguided demographics and EPA concessions continue to hold back your enjoyment when its so easily attainable.

The combination of the Marauder's weight and higher-rpm powerband engine just begs for shorter gears. A gear swap and a superchips tune (from Reinhart or Alternative Auto) may be all you need to do to get your MM to a satisfactory performance level. You'll still see 20-22 mpg highway and 120-125 mph in 3rd gear (theoretically of course, ;)) with the 4.10's. The tune will correct the speedo, free up more than a few ponies, and greatly improve the lazy OEM shifting.

What is often referred to as Reinhart's Stage 1, for around a grand installed (depending on labor), the FMS 4.10:1 rearend ring & pinion gears, Superchips custom tuner, cooler Denso plugs and 180 Deg F stat will get you well past the "slug"gishness feel of the stock Marauder. There's too many testimonials for this "starter" modification to ignore. Your Marauder should then be able to run with the pack of many other full size four-doors (mid-90's Impala SS, Cadillac STS, etc).

Check with your dealer if your concerned with warrenty issues. Many don't have any problems with it of they do the install... they won't be the cheapest in town labor-wise but at least the modifications will be out in the open.

- JD

stevengerard

08-30-2004, 09:55 PM

I guess I was expecting such a dog that I was actually suprised to see how quick it was. I know its not great but better than I expected. Many of us have spoken to the folks who worked on this car, one of them told me it was intended to have 4.10s but that was axed by the brass. Yes its a shame this car isn't what it should have been, but it is a great starting point. I tried a bunch of cars out. There is no other American made car like it. If you like the looks of the 300C then you have a good choice there but its still more expensive to get an equally optioned 300C as an MM with less aftermarket options. Next car in line is the CTS-V too small for me and 15k more. For half that price I can super charge my car and have a car bigger and faster than the CTS-V.

stevengerard

08-30-2004, 09:57 PM

Thanks for posting this Billy, this is insightful, boy those 4.56s made a huge difference Hmmm, mostly city driving, I'm thinking 5.00s

Edit - another trophy! my 300th post - to my wifes frustration.

BillyGman

08-31-2004, 12:17 AM

Thanks for posting this Billy, this is insightful, boy those 4.56s made a huge difference Hmmm, mostly city driving, I'm thinking 5.00s

Steve, do you mean 5.13 gears? I DO hope that's a joke!!! 4.56's in this car is right on the edge. Most people will be great w/4.10's. For Marauder owners who are absolutely positive that they will NEVER Supercharge their cars, and they want to be able to burn alot of rubber from a mere stab of the gas pedal, then they would like the 4.56's, along with the Stallion torque converter too. But the gas milage definately is less w/these gears. I get 12 MPG around town, and 16 MPG on the highway. I had these gears before the Supercharger, and I was getting 13 MPG around town.

But w/the overdrive transmission the top end speed didn't take as much of a hit as you would think, and it definately didn't take a hit at the top at all when I had the 4.10 gears. Just keep in mind that originally I was dead set against ever supercharging this car, and I wanted great acceleration off the line, so that's the reason for the choice of 4.56's. But after I began to find out about the Trilogy S/Cer kit for these cars, and after I really began to study up on S/Cing a street car in general, I then decided that it was for me. Had I known that I would purchase the Trilogy S/Cer kit, I probably would've left the stock 3.55 gears in it, because the S/Cer is that good.

hbarrett

08-31-2004, 03:40 AM

Is the flash for the ecm, or is it the pcm?
thanks
I would suggest a set of 4.10's from Ford Motor Sports. The gears are not radical and does improve initial get up and go. You will need to flash the ecm in the car to correct speedometer change........

Welcome aboard........

hbarrett

08-31-2004, 04:00 AM

I really think this car is the best looking sedan on the road, just not the performer they advertise it to be. It is pretty quick when hitting WOT on the highway, but otherwise a dog. Overall, it has sloppy performance as built, with lousy shifting, and I find it hard to believe that Ford intended to sell a car that would need so much modification. If changing the gears, plugs, thermostat, and flash really do the trick, then I should consider it, or I am about ready to consider selling it. With the gears and such will my gas mileage actually increase as you suggest? My combined highway/city mileage is about 17.5 which is exactly the mileage I got from my 2000 CV for the 4.5 years I owned it. As for making the change to 4:10s, etc., I will need to find a FLM dealer who will agree with the warranty issues somewhere in MD, DE or S. NJ. Even nearby PA would be OK. Does anyone know of one?
Thanks,
Howard
Ford/Mercury provided us a very luxurious canvas for us to build anything from a capable touring sedan to a suprisingly fast dragstrip warrior depending on your pocketbook and thurst for performance. Just don't let their misguided demographics and EPA concessions continue to hold back your enjoyment when its so easily attainable.

The combination of the Marauder's weight and higher-rpm powerband engine just begs for shorter gears. A gear swap and a superchips tune (from Reinhart or Alternative Auto) may be all you need to do to get your MM to a satisfactory performance level. You'll still see 20-22 mpg highway and 120-125 mph in 3rd gear (theoretically of course, ;)) with the 4.10's. The tune will correct the speedo, free up more than a few ponies, and greatly improve the lazy OEM shifting.

What is often referred to as Reinhart's Stage 1, for around a grand installed (depending on labor), the FMS 4.10:1 rearend ring & pinion gears, Superchips custom tuner, cooler Denso plugs and 180 Deg F stat will get you well past the "slug"gishness feel of the stock Marauder. There's too many testimonials for this "starter" modification to ignore. Your Marauder should then be able to run with the pack of many other full size four-doors (mid-90's Impala SS, Cadillac STS, etc).

Check with your dealer if your concerned with warrenty issues. Many don't have any problems with it of they do the install... they won't be the cheapest in town labor-wise but at least the modifications will be out in the open.

- JD

Bradley G

08-31-2004, 04:15 AM

I think those terms (abreviations)are uesd to describe the same thing.The tuner you plug in to the car there is a connector port right above my right knee( sitting in drivers seat) plug your hand held tuner in , It will ask you a series of questions . do you have fuel sys disabled?(yes response) what operating program does the car use?(sticker found on edge of dash driverside)my '04 says MAV somthing? the whole excersize takes maybe 5 min.(thats if you get the right program for the right year car otherwise you'll know right away Dennis and I can attest to that)I understand your plight my MM.net friend as a stated before most of us feel felt found.Performance,fuelmileage, and oil consumption is not the same during break in as it will be after 5-10K .You can call the Fordman Lidio Iacobelli and ask for his program downloaded on a SCT tuner I waited till 5000 mi befor I got a perkier tune and improved shifting.Lidio @ Alternative auto performance (586)(463-0010) Call Him he will help you .

MarauderMark

08-31-2004, 04:36 AM

As for making the change to 4:10s, etc., I will need to find a FLM dealer who will agree with the warranty issues somewhere in MD, DE or S. NJ. Even nearby PA would be OK. Does anyone know of one?
Thanks,
Howard

I just had my gears done at were your car and mine were bought at.the price was $550.00 and they put in 4:10's. maybe shop around for something cheaper .but i'll tell ya the reason mine needed to be changed was because of faulty installation in the first place(from some shmoe).So going to the dealer is the best bet.Tell brandon he'll help ya out.They all know my car.

as for the other items Dr's kit will put you in the 14's (which will satisfy you but not for long)and you still won't be satisfied because that makes the car feel great .but then you will want more it may take a few months to feel that but you will and we will be starting a new thread about "whats the best s/cer to buy" (lol).as soon as i can get mine back on the road (u joint) and i have time i'll call ya and i'll give ya a ride after we eat..If not then please disreguard this paragraph...Mark

Dan

08-31-2004, 04:50 AM

Hbarrett,

First of all, welcome to our board. We are all very enthusiastic about our cars and will always do what we can to help. We are also quite an opinionated group so it helps to sometimes have a thick skin around here.

Having read your comments I think that you should sell the car as quickly as you can. I am assuming that it is a brand new car and that you had a chance to drive it prior to buying it. Did you drive it more than once? Did you take it on long test drives or were they short ones? Prior to buying a Marauder I took three different cars out, in three different seasons and each drive was over 10 miles long. I paid no attention to any advertising. Why? I didn't see any? :lol: (A long running joke around here.)

I certainly hope that you didn't buy it from the brochure and advertising they did. I would find that hard to believe for two reasons. #1, it would mean that you actually saw some advertising on the car. (DOH) #2, it would mean that you actually believed it.

Fact is, the MM is going to be faster from the mid to top end than the CV is on any day. On the bottom end it won't but we are talking engine mechanics and not much more. Since Mercury advertised the 4V engine I am sure that this is something you knew coming in.

You are going to have to tune your car a bit or sell it. No two ways about it. Although, from what I am sensing, I get the feeling that you still won't be happy after modding your car either. That said, sell it before your feelings of angst about the car grow worse.

But please, let us know what you buy. If it is another Crown Vic just let me know what light I can meet you at. :) It'll be fun. :up:

-Dan

PS: Comments like this...

After two years of drooling from afar, I have finally aquired the object of my desire. I brought home a black 04 Marauder this past Friday and I've been all smiles every minute since. I'm new here too and this is my first post after discovering this site early last week. Forgive me if I'm in the wrong discussion group, I'm still feeling my way around. Anyway it's a cool site and I had to let you know a fellow MMer has joined the ranks. I live in Chicago and I paid a little over 26k after rebates and discounts at an area dealership. I think this was a good deal. I saw somewhere else on this site some discussion about paying this much for one and I did bring this up during negotiations with the salesman. In any case I'm happy to be here. I also have a 98.5 SVT Contour which I love but this baby is incredible. Found here. (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12430) are much more commonly heard from new MM owners.

Smokie

08-31-2004, 10:58 AM

I am about ready to consider selling it. HowardI regret that the car has been such a dissapointment, it seems that you don't notice the improvement in handling and braking over the C/V (I own one). I don't know if I can really say much to help you because reading your posts, I believe you are done with the car in your heart.

There actually might be something wrong with your car that the dealer can address because overall you are the only owner I know of whose car became worse with more miles. I hate to say it but maybe getting rid of the car would be best in your case...the car cost a great deal of money and you seem very, very unhappy with the car.

I hope it turns out ok for you.

TripleTransAm

08-31-2004, 12:16 PM

There actually might be something wrong with your car that the dealer can address because overall you are the only owner I know of whose car became worse with more miles.

I totally agree... something is probably wrong, and deserves a visit to a sympathetic dealer ASAP. Could be anything from a faulty injector to a faulty catalytic converter...etc...etc...

While I can't speak for the 'improved' 2004 models, I too agree that most 2003 owners have reported the engine loosening up with miles. Personally, I saw a definite change in the car's responsiveness to a launch order. ;)

jstevens

08-31-2004, 02:23 PM

Howard,
Sorry your disappointed.
After you get the car, it develops a memory and begins to drive like a slug. Mine did the same thing. Its like it learns a little. One reason its a slug is Ford had to detune it, probably to keep people from wrapping around trees and for the MPG, at least thats what I've read.

I too like you were afraid of the warranty, but according to the law, they must prove that your modification caused the failure. Also, don't forget that this engine is basically a Mach 1 and is used in many other platforms so it has a proven history.

Thats the thinking I used. I added the chip and 4.10's. Man, you will not believe the difference. I am literally having a blast. Its like a damn rocket, I kid you not. If I had the dough, I would've S/C it, but oh well. This is still fun. And yes, modifying is addictive.

My .02

Dan

08-31-2004, 03:10 PM

One constructive suggestion I can add is to try to drive another stock Marauder. Take it back to your dealer and ask or find another MM owners around here and test drive that. Of course, you want to go with a stocker at this point just to see how far off your car is.

Once you find out that it is or isn't your particular car then I suggest that you go looking for a modified Marauder. THOSE cars can put a permanent grin on your face.

After 4 months I still wake up looking forwad to driving my car. If that is not the way you feel then I have to think something is wrong.

-Dan

stevengerard

08-31-2004, 04:39 PM

Joke!? lets see my 442 gets 8 mpg, the Suburban 11.5 mpg, if an MM with 5.13s gets 14 mpg I'm ahead of the game.

Actually if (when) I S/C my car I'll kkep the 3.55s for a while.

HwyCruiser

08-31-2004, 05:07 PM

Howard,

I get a dependable 22 mpg on the highway with the cruise control on and 16.5 mpg combined with the 4.10's, down from 24/18 stock IIRC.

In addition to suggested above, I would also suspect the brand of gas you're using. I've found BP/Amco 92 octane is the best around my neck of the woods. My MM ran like a dog and suffered from the ticks with Texaco's 91 octane even before the tune. Gas is something you probably don't what to shop for if you find your MM is as fussy as mine is.

Believe me, I know what your going through. Considering the bath your going to take on selling/trading, the Stage 1 isn't that much of a gamble for a little happiness. I too was less than impressed with the "low end grunt" of the car when I bought it. I just couldn't accept getting pulled away by Accords and such. :cheesed:

The Stage 1 gave me a taste of what is possible with this car -- now I'm hooked. This is probably the biggest danger with modifying. You'll be happy with the higher level of performance for a while but then you get used to it. Since it was so easy to do the last time, you'll be out looking for your next "fix" and eventually you'll wake up on day with a wallet hangover after you've supercharged and painted on racing stripes...

...on second thought, you may just consider getting out while you can.

- JD

MarauderMark

08-31-2004, 05:58 PM

Hey H.
Might wanna check this out..

C.A.M. Meet Dyno Day (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12282)

hbarrett

08-31-2004, 07:43 PM

LOL
Your message is very entertaining. I did a five mile test ride just once, and it seemed like a screamer compared to the CV I drove there to test drive the MM. It was only later, over some time that the car's inate shortcomings surfaced. I did receive several encouraging replies today that leaves me to conclude that some modifications will be necessary. The car is the most attractive sedan I have owned, and no other sedan on the road compares to its good looks. Like the Imp SS, its style and good looks are timeless and ten years from now it will still have a killer look. I was told to call Lidio at Advance Auto Performance about a SCT scanner with MM programs for reprogramming the ecm for a limited improvement. I am seriously considering doing this for now as a small investment. I also spoke with Dennis R a few weeks ago, and Mark from NE, MD about the Stage 1 mod. They both suggested the Stage 1 as a good start. Perhaps I will do that down the road a bit, but not until I find a local Ford SVT dealer I can have confidence in. I know that if I let this car go, then I will regret it later, and I already know that there is nothing else out there today that I have any interest in. Thank you all for the supportive input and words of encouragement. This is a great group!
Howard
Hbarrett,

First of all, welcome to our board. We are all very enthusiastic about our cars and will always do what we can to help. We are also quite an opinionated group so it helps to sometimes have a thick skin around here.

Having read your comments I think that you should sell the car as quickly as you can. I am assuming that it is a brand new car and that you had a chance to drive it prior to buying it. Did you drive it more than once? Did you take it on long test drives or were they short ones? Prior to buying a Marauder I took three different cars out, in three different seasons and each drive was over 10 miles long. I paid no attention to any advertising. Why? I didn't see any? :lol: (A long running joke around here.)

I certainly hope that you didn't buy it from the brochure and advertising they did. I would find that hard to believe for two reasons. #1, it would mean that you actually saw some advertising on the car. (DOH) #2, it would mean that you actually believed it.

Fact is, the MM is going to be faster from the mid to top end than the CV is on any day. On the bottom end it won't but we are talking engine mechanics and not much more. Since Mercury advertised the 4V engine I am sure that this is something you knew coming in.

You are going to have to tune your car a bit or sell it. No two ways about it. Although, from what I am sensing, I get the feeling that you still won't be happy after modding your car either. That said, sell it before your feelings of angst about the car grow worse.

But please, let us know what you buy. If it is another Crown Vic just let me know what light I can meet you at. :) It'll be fun. :up:

-Dan

PS: Comments like this...
Found here. (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12430) are much more commonly heard from new MM owners.

stevengerard

08-31-2004, 07:53 PM

Ha, hook, line, and sinker, start saving for the Super Charger. Welcome aboard you came to your senses!

buckyboy

08-31-2004, 09:04 PM

i had my gears installed today. All you need to do is get the gears and the tuner. Spend $1000+/-, and you WILL be satisfied. dont sell your car, you bought it for a reason, just do these two simple mods, and you will be thrilled.:flag:
LOL
Your message is very entertaining. I did a five mile test ride just once, and it seemed like a screamer compared to the CV I drove there to test drive the MM. It was only later, over some time that the car's inate shortcomings surfaced. I did receive several encouraging replies today that leaves me to conclude that some modifications will be necessary. The car is the most attractive sedan I have owned, and no other sedan on the road compares to its good looks. Like the Imp SS, its style and good looks are timeless and ten years from now it will still have a killer look. I was told to call Lidio at Advance Auto Performance about a SCT scanner with MM programs for reprogramming the ecm for a limited improvement. I am seriously considering doing this for now as a small investment. I also spoke with Dennis R a few weeks ago, and Mark from NE, MD about the Stage 1 mod. They both suggested the Stage 1 as a good start. Perhaps I will do that down the road a bit, but not until I find a local Ford SVT dealer I can have confidence in. I know that if I let this car go, then I will regret it later, and I already know that there is nothing else out there today that I have any interest in. Thank you all for the supportive input and words of encouragement. This is a great group!
Howard

BillyGman

09-02-2004, 12:21 AM

Howard, to answer your question about gas mileage w/the 4.10 gears, I was getting 17 MPG around town while I had the stock 3.55 gears, and then when i went to the 4.10's, the mileage only dropped to 15 MPG. So it only makes about a 2 MPG difference. that's really no biggie. And the car will move quicker off the line, and still fly right up to 110 MPH in a heartbeat w/out even breathing hard. So you'll loose no driveability on the highway w/the 4.10's, while at the same time be quicker off the starting line when the light turns green.

hbarrett

09-02-2004, 04:13 AM

BillyG
When I spoke with Dennis R about this he claimed that there would be no difference in gas mileage. I did not pursue the subject with him, but maybe new tuning parameters with the gears will compensate for the lower gears.
Howard
Howard, to answer your question about gas mileage w/the 4.10 gears, I was getting 17 MPG around town while I had the stock 3.55 gears, and then when i went to the 4.10's, the mileage only dropped to 15 MPG. So it only makes about a 2 MPG difference. that's really no biggie. And the car will move quicker off the line, and still fly right up to 110 MPH in a heartbeat w/out even breathing hard. So you'll loose no driveability on the highway w/the 4.10's, while at the same time be quicker off the starting line when the light turns green.

BillyGman

09-02-2004, 11:18 AM

BillyG
When I spoke with Dennis R about this he claimed that there would be no difference in gas mileage. I did not pursue the subject with him, but maybe new tuning parameters with the gears will compensate for the lower gears.
Howard
Dennis has some great products, and has done an exceelent service for us here, as have some of the other vendors of this board too. before my car was Supercharged, I had a chip from Dennis in my car. In other words, back then my car WAS tuned by Dennis Reinhart via his chip that was burned for me for the 4.10 gears that I had at that time, and regardless of that fact, my gas mileage still went from 17 MPG to 15 MPG. I don't see any way you can avoid that. Your engine will be reving higher at any given MPH speed, so you're going to burn a little more gas. However, since the RPM difference at 70 MPH in Overdrive is only 350 RPM between the stock 3.55's and the 4.10's, it's only a 2 MPG change that you'll see.

But really, I don't see how anyone should be concerned about such a minor drop in gas mileage. If anyone is concerned about such trivial differences, then why would they purchase a big tank of a car like the Marauder in the first place that also has a V8 engine? So you're going to see a change in gas mileage, but it will be very slight.

RF Overlord

09-02-2004, 11:41 AM

^^^what Billy said^^^...pretty much...

I don't have the exact numbers handy, but although we lost a little highway MPG, for the reasons Billy so aptly explains above, we actually GAINED a slight improvement in around-town MPG...I attribute this to the fact that it now requires less throttle to get the car launched and up to speed. Obviously the highway mileage will always be slightly lower with 4.10s, so how much OVERALL loss you experience will depend on what your city/highway driving mix is. Our overall mileage suffered by less than 1 MPG...

jakdad

09-02-2004, 04:50 PM

Well if you're more simple like me you can use one word...

HEMI
Don't worry, it can be treated with "Preparatioh H"!!!

SergntMac

09-02-2004, 05:19 PM

I don't have the exact numbers handy, but although we lost a little highway MPG, for the reasons Billy so aptly explains above, we actually GAINED a slight improvement in around-town MPG...I attribute this to the fact that it now requires less throttle to get the car launched and up to speed. Obviously the highway mileage will always be slightly lower with 4.10s, so how much OVERALL loss you experience will depend on what your city/highway driving mix is. Our overall mileage suffered by less than 1 MPG.
Ditto to RF...With my first N/A MM, I watched my MPG dip and climb, and several times too. With just the 4:10s, and the base Reinhart chip, it dipped to about 17C/19H. After I added the torque converter and UDPs, it went back up to 19C/22H, and IMHO for the same reasons RF explains. More driveline efficiency means less fuel consumption, because I needed less throttle to move the car. After that, I played with the tire PSI, and also got a Jerry Tune, and it got slightly better MPG, and a whole lot more power, 20C/22H.

Of course, MPG is also contingent on the quality of gasoline available to you, but it doesn't take a calculator to figure out that as you improve power to the wheels, and reduce rolling resistance, MPG will improve. Today, I drive the supercharged Kenny Brown #1x, producing over 455 HP to the rear wheels, and I still net 24 MPG OTR. Albeit, my city MPG is much lower, 17MPG now, but that's because I can't keep my foot out of the throttle, and I know it.

The bottom line here, is that gears and a chip will probably lower your overall MPG for the short term, but within reason too. Reduce the driveline loss, and improve rolling resistance, and you can recover MPG, but discipline is everything.

Well if you're more simple like me you can use one word...

HEMI

WTF? I thought we had HEMIs already?