4.10: gears today

[buckyboy]

I know there are alot of talk about gears. I had my gears installed today. I was concerned about adding gears, but let me tell you, what a difference. The car seems much more responsive. WHEN YOU GET ON IT, THERE IS NO HESITATION. Along with the tuner, i will say it is worth the money, and if you are on the fence...do it. The car now drives the way i imagined it would when i first saw the car. Like everyone else i was dissapointed with the performance when i first drove it. Now, the performance matches the attitude of this car, after you do these mods, there will be no more excuses, or the common..."it looks nice but..' Go get your gears and tuner, after you do, i promise, you will be impressed and satisfied(for now!) with the performance.

[MarauderMark]

Glad to hear of your new founded power.Supercharger next? :burn:

[HwyCruiser]

Amazing what a gear swap and a good tune can do, eh? Something you've got to experience to believe. :up:

- JD

[FiveO]

4.10's should have been standard :D

[HwyCruiser]

4.10's should have been standard :D

What? And scare all the little old ladies and gentlemen that bought these cars? No way! :down:

- JD

[buckyboy]

yes, exactly, if it was standard, they could have marketed this car as the 4 door cobra.tsE=FiveO]4.10's should have been standard :D[/QUOTE]

[FiveO]

Oh.....come on....... :)


Nothing like scaring little old ladies ;) :D

[Silver_04]

4.10's are the next thing on my list. Did you get the stonger girdle too?

[buckyboy]

nope, i dont really know much about that mod..
4.10's are the next thing on my list. Did you get the stonger girdle too?

[Mike Poore]

What? And scare all the little old ladies and gentlemen that bought these cars? No way! :down:

- JD
Now, just a damn minute, kid!

Um, what's it do the gas mileage? I'm guessing, on the highway 1 - 2 MPG?

[FiveO]

I cannot recommend a mod more than some type of girdle when you get new gears installed.

When you actually look at the stock "girdle" you'll wonder how the heck the stock gears stayed in there in the first place.

The stock "girdle" is nothing more than a thin aluminum pan. Its pathetic.

Call Wes at Innovative Interceptors and get a TA Performance or Ford Racing rear end girdle to hold that new set of gears in.

The TA is $30 cheaper and does the same job.

Trust me on this mod....you'll see when you have it installed.

[HwyCruiser]

Now, just a damn minute, kid!

Um, what's it do the gas mileage? I'm guessing, on the highway 1 - 2 MPG?

:lol: Thanks, I needed that.

Yes sir, about 2 mpg lower on the highway. I'm getting a dependable 22 mpg highway, 16.5 mixed.

The girdle will let you check the gear lube level also. I don't know why ford put on that fimsy stamped sheetmetal cover with no fill plug. BTW, if you want to go whole hog, get the stud kit for the carrier bearing caps to get full use of the girdle's load bolts for a few bucks more. I know, overkill, but while your in there...

- JD

[mpearce]

Buckyboy...I know exactly how you feel. I put 4,000 miles on my 04 before I did anything to it. I got 4.10's and a superchip about 3 weeks ago now. It's unreal. I had no idea a simple mod like that could change the car so much. It feels so much more aggressive. I love it! For me, I could care less about gas mileage. Enjoy your newly modded ride!

-Mat

[bigslim]

I know there are alot of talk about gears. I had my gears installed today. I was concerned about adding gears, but let me tell you, what a difference. The car seems much more responsive. WHEN YOU GET ON IT, THERE IS NO HESITATION. Along with the tuner, i will say it is worth the money, and if you are on the fence...do it. The car now drives the way i imagined it would when i first saw the car. Like everyone else i was dissapointed with the performance when i first drove it. Now, the performance matches the attitude of this car, after you do these mods, there will be no more excuses, or the common..."it looks nice but..' Go get your gears and tuner, after you do, i promise, you will be impressed and satisfied(for now!) with the performance.
It is the best mod you can do for the money. Before my tires would not break lose from a start. Now,even with brand new tires on it my car breaks the tires loose. My friend was standing at the curb one day as I took off and he said my car scratch second gear. I love it.

[jgc61sr2002]

It is the best mod you can do for the money. Before my tires would not break lose from a start. Now,even with brand new tires on it my car breaks the tires loose. My friend was standing at the curb one day as I took off and he said my car scratch second gear. I love it.



bigslim - I concur. It is the best bang for the $' :up:

[teamrope]

Now, just a damn minute, kid!

Um, what's it do the gas mileage? I'm guessing, on the highway 1 - 2 MPG?
Fourth Horseman has 4.10's and when we convoyed ot Indy, His milage was only 1/2 of a mile per gallon less than us. After seeing that, we made the plunge.

[Mike Poore]

:lol: Thanks, I needed that.

Yes sir, about 2 mpg lower on the highway. I'm getting a dependable 22 mpg highway, 16.5 mixed.

The girdle will let you check the gear lube level also. I don't know why ford put on that fimsy stamped sheetmetal cover with no fill plug. BTW, if you want to go whole hog, get the stud kit for the carrier bearing caps to get full use of the girdle's load bolts for a few bucks more. I know, overkill, but while your in there...

- JDThanks, JD, they're replacing my noisy posi, so I should have a new girdle in hand to give 'em to swap out at that time. Where do I get the one you suggest? BTW how much speedometer error is there with the gear change, & what do you do about it?

[RF Overlord]

Where do I get the one you suggest? BTW how much speedometer error is there with the gear change, & what do you do about it?

I got my TA Performance girdle and stud kit from Wes at Innovative Interceptors (www.innovativeinterceptors.co m) (a sponsor here) :up: :up:

Your speedo and odo will read approx 15% high with 4.10s...you'll need to have the PCM reflashed to correct it...

[Mike Poore]

I got my TA Performance girdle and stud kit from Wes at Innovative Interceptors (http://www.innovativeinterceptors.com/) (a sponsor here) :up: :up:

Your speedo and odo will read approx 15% high with 4.10s...you'll need to have the PCM reflashed to correct it...
Thanks, I just sent Wes an email. Hope they have 'em in stock. If there's only 1, you get 1st dibs.

[SouLRioT]

What? And scare all the little old ladies and gentlemen that bought these cars? No way! :down:

- JD

What about the little old lady from pasadena :burn:

[RF Overlord]

If there's only 1, you get 1st dibs.

Um...I already have mine... :confused: , but thanks...

[Fourth Horseman]

It is the best mod you can do for the money. Before my tires would not break lose from a start. Now,even with brand new tires on it my car breaks the tires loose. My friend was standing at the curb one day as I took off and he said my car scratch second gear. I love it.

Yup, same here. I bark the tires on what I consider only slightly more than normal launches in the 1st to 2nd and even the 2nd to 3rd up-shifts. Cool. :cool:

Congrats on the upgrade, BuckyBoy!

[Mike Poore]

I got my TA Performance girdle and stud kit from Wes at Innovative Interceptors (http://www.innovativeinterceptors.com/) (a sponsor here) :up: :up:

...
Just off the phone with Wes, and the girdle's on the way. Thanks for the tip.

[RF Overlord]

Just off the phone with Wes, and the girdle's on the way. Thanks for the tip.

To paraphrase that old saying: "You've tried the rest, now try Wes"...

:rock:

[Silver_04]

Is the girdle and stud kit even on Innovative Interceptor web site? I wanna see them:bigcry:

[FiveO]

Is the girdle and stud kit even on Innovative Interceptor web site? I wanna see them:bigcry:

Ask and ye shall receive... :)


Its a really nice heavy duty piece.

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL283/1552930/4651240/65506116.jpg

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL283/1552930/4651240/65506140.jpg

[jstevens]

I just got my chip (Alternative Auto) and 4.10's and I'm having a blast breaking the tires loose. This thing is like a darn rocket. Its awesome. Who cares about mileage. I would've bought an Aveo if I did care.
Chip and gears are the way to go. I look forward to driving places.

[RF Overlord]

Is the girdle and stud kit even on Innovative Interceptor web site? I wanna see them:bigcry:

You can see the girdle on TA Performance's site here (http://www.taperformance.com/rearend.htm). (Don't click on "Ford", just scroll down a little...) It's part number TA-1806...

[Silver_04]

Thanks guys for the pics and link. I also found the link Wes has in his forum to the updated site that has pricing.

[FiveO]

One thing not to forget though....

The rear end grease is damn expensive.

Its like $17 a quart...!


I needed 3 to refill it.

[Tallboy]

my rear axle bearings are starting to sound noisy. hhmmmmm.

[jgc61sr2002]

my rear axle bearings are starting to sound noisy. hhmmmmm.


A trip to the dealer is in order. There is a TSB on the axel bearings on Marauders built prior to 1/1/03. Hopefully your Marauder is still under warranty.

[Tallboy]

A trip to the dealer is in order. There is a TSB on the axel bearings on Marauders built prior to 1/1/03. Hopefully your Marauder is still under warranty.
not only am i under warranty, i have carfixer!!:cool4:

[FiveO]

not only am i under warranty, i have carfixer!!:cool4:

Please tell us he's not tied up in your garage..... :lol:

;)

[Tallboy]

Please tell us he's not tied up in your garage..... :lol:

;)
i'm not all bad, i did let him out to do buckyboy's car!!!

[Pat]

:dunno: :dunno:
I know there are alot of talk about gears. I had my gears installed today. I was concerned about adding gears, but let me tell you, what a difference. The car seems much more responsive. WHEN YOU GET ON IT, THERE IS NO HESITATION. Along with the tuner, i will say it is worth the money, and if you are on the fence...do it. The car now drives the way i imagined it would when i first saw the car. Like everyone else i was dissapointed with the performance when i first drove it. Now, the performance matches the attitude of this car, after you do these mods, there will be no more excuses, or the common..."it looks nice but..' Go get your gears and tuner, after you do, i promise, you will be impressed and satisfied(for now!) with the performance.
Senior Member, Please forgive lowly new member for asking unimportant questions. It's been 35 years since I pedaled a fast ford. Had '69 Torino, with Holly, Hooker, Mallory, Crane, Elderbrock.

New '04 MM, Silver Frost, is now gracing this unworthy's drive way and I humbly beg for answers to my project of gearing down.

Are the 4.10's from FoMoCo cataloge? I found the TA girdle site but did your dealer do the installation?

What and who calibrates the speedometer for the gear difference?
What does the term "tuner" refer to?

What does the term "reflash" mean.

When some changes the "chip" what exactly does that mean and who does it? The dealer?

Thank you for any answers who can give this ignorant person.

Excuse me again, but how does one wipe this sh_t eating grin off my face when I drive my Marauder?

[Smokie]

:dunno: :dunno:
Senior Member, Please forgive lowly new member for asking unimportant questions. It's been 35 years since I pedaled a fast ford. Had '69 Torino, with Holly, Hooker, Mallory, Crane, Elderbrock.

New '04 MM, Silver Frost, is now gracing this unworthy's drive way and I humbly beg for answers to my project of gearing down.

Are the 4.10's from FoMoCo cataloge? I found the TA girdle site but did your dealer do the installation?

What and who calibrates the speedometer for the gear difference?
What does the term "tuner" refer to?

What does the term "reflash" mean.

When some changes the "chip" what exactly does that mean and who does it? The dealer?

Thank you for any answers who can give this ignorant person.

Excuse me again, but how does one wipe this sh_t eating grin off my face when I drive my Marauder?Pat, I'm just sitting here waiting for the hurricane to hit and my head hurts so I will give brief answers.

The 4.10's are available from FoMoCo catalogue or from vendor on this forum. Yes, there are dealers that will install them for you.

There are vendors on this forum that sell chips that improve performance and correct for gear changes.

Tuner is a handheld device that can be programmed with several performance programs by a "tuner" which is a person with the knowledge to calibrate the original programming.

Reflash is a custom program downloaded into your car's computer (PCM) that changes parameters like timing/ air /fuel ratio to improve performance.

Chip is a physical device that plugs into your PCM and overrides original programming, with performance program.

The dealer does not do the chip--you do not want the dealer to know you have a chip.

Can go no more my head really hurts. Welcome aboard.

[jgc61sr2002]

Pat - Welcome to the MM site. Smokie has aready answered you questions. Enjoy you new ride. All the information you would ever want about your Marauder is on this site. :welcome:

[FiveO]

Pat...no worries.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

I've learned so much about not only Marauders...but cars in general from people on this site.

No question is ignorant or unwanted.

Ask away if you need anything.

[gonzo50]

4.10's are the next thing on my list. Did you get the stonger girdle too?
I'm also planning on the 4.10 gear replacement, along with the TA Performance girdle, stud kit, and axel bearing check (fix). :burn:



I cannot recommend a mod more than some type of girdle when you get new gears installed.

Call Wes at Innovative Interceptors and get a TA Performance or Ford Racing rear end girdle to hold that new set of gears in.

Trust me on this mod....you'll see when you have it installed.
I'm calling Tuesday, since Monday is Labor Day, and getting my girdle..... :rofl: for the Marauder.

My gears will come from Dennis, the same day.

[FiveO]

Gonzo....post your thoughts on the difference between the stock rear end "cap" and the new "girdle".

You'll see what I mean when you get it installed....

And yes....my Marauder wears a girdle...and she's proud of it! :lol: :D

[buckyboy]

can you actualy notice a difference?
Gonzo....post your thoughts on the difference between the stock rear end "cap" and the new "girdle".

You'll see what I mean when you get it installed....

And yes....my Marauder wears a girdle...and she's proud of it! :lol: :D

[FiveO]

Its not a mod you would actually notice a difference on.

Its a preventative mod.

The stock rear end gears are held in by nothing...its simply a very thin aluminum pan...

Think aluminum can thin...ok...not quite that thin...but darn close.

The rear end "girdles" are thick...and heavy duty. They hold the gears in place without any problem.

Its nothing more than preventative. A strong one at that though.

Here is the stock "cap":

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL283/1552930/4651240/65799488.jpg

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL283/1552930/4651240/65799496.jpg


I don't have any side views of the TA girdle I have....but heres a couple rear shots:

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL283/1552930/4651240/65506116.jpg


http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL283/1552930/4651240/65506140.jpg


Purely preventative. If you push your MM at all...on the track, street or strip.....a rear end girdle is almost necessary. Keep those gears in place!!!


Anyone disagree?

[HAULNSS]

Its not a mod you would actually notice a difference on.

Its a preventative mod.

The stock rear end gears are held in by nothing...its simply a very thin aluminum pan...

Think aluminum can thin...ok...not quite that thin...but darn close.

The rear end "girdles" are thick...and heavy duty. They hold the gears in place without any problem.

Its nothing more than preventative. A strong one at that though.

Purely preventative. If you push your MM at all...on the track, street or strip.....a rear end girdle is almost necessary. Keep those gears in place!!!


Anyone disagree?

I think the benefit of the girdled covers is not to "keep the gears in" in as much as to strengthen the whole axle assembly and to resist the torsional twisting of the housing while also reducing movement of the bearing caps. When things start to flex, that can be a bad thing. ;)

There are bolts for loading the bearing caps and they usually offer more fluid capacity and some even have special provisions for directing oil to the bearings. :2thumbs:



Many good reasons to install the new cover, but not for "keeping the gears in". I'm glad to see you have one with all the new power you'll be making. :rock:

Randy

[RF Overlord]

^^^what Randy said^^^...exactly...

[MM03MOK]

^^^what Randy said^^^...exactly...DARN! You beat me to it! ^^^^

[buckyboy]

nice to see a imp ss guy on here!..Ive always been a fan of those cars..:up:
I think the benefit of the girdled covers is not to "keep the gears in" in as much as to strengthen the whole axle assembly and to resist the torsional twisting of the housing while also reducing movement of the bearing caps. When things start to flex, that can be a bad thing. ;)

There are bolts for loading the bearing caps and they usually offer more fluid capacity and some even have special provisions for directing oil to the bearings. :2thumbs:



Many good reasons to install the new cover, but not for "keeping the gears in". I'm glad to see you have one with all the new power you'll be making. :rock:

Randy

[FiveO]

Ok...not to keep the gears in but it is preventative like I said.

I will concede that...my wording was poor.

The bolts that hold the gears in are in actuality not tensioned onto the gears very tight at all...

Randy is correct...it strengthens the entire axle assembly.

[Pat]

Pat...no worries.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

I've learned so much about not only Marauders...but cars in general from people on this site.

No question is ignorant or unwanted.

Ask away if you need anything.
:baby: Thanks for your response, Smokie answers, although informative, leads me to ask for some amplification. Smokie is in the middle on a hurricane and may not be able to respond.

1. My first question is where does one fins a "Tuner"? He seems to be a priest who performs a "rite" over the PCM with equipment and knowledge shared only among this priesthood. (I'm just being silly).

2. I peviously asked about reflash and the answer was that it's a custom program thats downloaded into the stock PCM. Where does one get such a program, who performs the download and where can it be done? Is the car still warranted?

3. I understand a chip is a physical device but does it take the place of one already in the PCM or is it an additional component? Does the PCM have to "rebooted" or set/reset in some fashion?

4. Are there books, articles that address this subject that I can purchase.

I know I sound so uninformed, I'm just ignorant of these facts. Thanks for your help. I've read many of the posts but some sound contradictory hence my confusion.

[HwyCruiser]

pat,

We've gone from gears to girdles on this one. I would suggest starting another thread about tuners as so not to stray too far off-topic on this one or to bury good info in an unrelated post. Good questions though.

- JD

[RF Overlord]

1. My first question is where does one fins a "Tuner"? He seems to be a priest who performs a "rite" over the PCM with equipment and knowledge shared only among this priesthood. (I'm just being silly).

That's a 2-part answer...a "tuner" can be the person who performs the custom tuning, and it can also be the device itself, as in the Superchips Custom Tuning 9100 hand-held tuner.


2. I peviously asked about reflash and the answer was that it's a custom program thats downloaded into the stock PCM. Where does one get such a program, who performs the download and where can it be done? Is the car still warranted?A reflash of the PCM can be done by anyone, if they purchase a hand-held tuner, or it can be done by one of the excellent vendors here, such as Dennis Reinhart or Lidio @ Alternative Auto. As far as your warranty goes, a custom tune will void the warranty IF the dealer finds out about it...that's one of the great things about the hand-held tuners: you can restore the stock programming to the PCM before bringing it in, so they'll never know..


3. I understand a chip is a physical device but does it take the place of one already in the PCM or is it an additional component? Does the PCM have to "rebooted" or set/reset in some fashion? A "chip" is an additional component that plugs into the service port of the PCM. The PCM then uses the programming contained on the chip instead of its own internal programming. When the chip is removed, the PCM reverts to its original programming.


4. Are there books, articles that address this subject that I can purchase. Not really, at least none that I'm aware of...your best bet is to search this site, and others like it, such as www.modulardepot.com

[SergntMac]

I will most likely compound the confusion here, but I'll keep it short. This 411 does not deserve of thread of it's own.

The girdle is a good thing, no question. As stated above, it adds support for the housing and ties everything together much better that the aluminum cover we get OEM. However, it's only performing a supporting role.

The chief mod in any rear end upgrade, is the Ford Racing stud kit, P/N M-4034-A, $39.95. This kit converts bearing cap bolts to a "stud and nut" design with Dana 60 quality, allowing for more uniform torquing and greater durability. This simple add-on mod fortifies bearing cap strength and alignment, to which the girdle will butt up against and add additional support. Installing one without the other, is really doing half the job.

Reading some of the comments ^ there about mileage and the 4:10s, keep in mind that the engine RPM will increase, but your fine tuning with the hand held programmer, EEC flash, or, add-on chip that corrects the speedo, also improves your overall performance. That, in conjunction with better throttle response, can lead to improve fuel consumption.

When I completed the gear upgrade AND got a professional tune on my first MM, my MPG actually went up from my bone stock performance. Neat, eh? Get some gears, a fine tune, and more MPG to boot. Of course, this comes only after you apply some personal discipline, and drive like a normal human being while testing for MPG. If the car responds better to your throttle, you should need less throttle to move the car, under "normal" conditions. That's the real problem with MPG, y'all can't stay out of the throttle long enough to see that it can improve.

Just my .02c...Carry on.

[Pat]

I want to thank all who have helped me on this thread about gearing and electronics.
Smokie #248, jgc61sr2002 #440, FiveO #1521, RF overlord #226 and HwyCruiser #1594. You have given me the info I needed to get started on two mod's. Now to convice the Mrs. that these things are absolutely needed to make "OUR" car run "correctly". This woman knows too much because one of our sons has a "rice burner" fast and furious ride.

[RF Overlord]

one of our sons has a "rice burner" fast and furious ride.

Then you already know your next mods should be an enormous "bookshelf" wing and some grotesque ground-effects body panels...and be sure to replace the useless Megs tips with a set of 4" fart cans... :fishslap:

[Pat]

Then you already know your next mods should be an enormous "bookshelf" wing and some grotesque ground-effects body panels...and be sure to replace the useless Megs tips with a set of 4" fart cans... :fishslap:Because your an Administrator I'll defer, but your insult is noted. You are no longer on my X-mas card list.

[jgc61sr2002]

Because your an Administrator I'll defer, but your insult is noted. You are no longer on my X-mas card list.


I know RF. He wouldn't insult any one and was only making a joke. :D

[teamrope]

Originally Posted by pat
Because your an Administrator I'll defer, but your insult is noted. You are no longer on my X-mas card list.
I know RF. He wouldn't insult any one and was only making a joke. :D
What he said. :stupid:

Once you meet everyone in person, this site takes on a whole new life. I've met RF, and I know he ment that as a little friendly ribbing, not as an insult. (Although I can see it being easily taken as one.) :cheesed:

[RF Overlord]

Come on, guys...give Pat a little more credit...he KNOWS I was only funnin' him...right?...Pat?...buddy?

OK, fine. BE that way...gimme back my football, I'm going home...

[hbarrett]

Got the 4.10s and tuner from Dennis. Gears installed yesterday, did the tuning tonight. Now that's the way the car should have been built. A few weeks ago I felt like I wanted to get rid of the car, now I feel much different today. My thanks to Dennis Reinhart and all you guys who have provided the encouragement. So what's next, sway bars, control arms, Trans, T/C, SC, headers?? When does it stop! Thanks,
Howard
I know there are alot of talk about gears. I had my gears installed today. I was concerned about adding gears, but let me tell you, what a difference. The car seems much more responsive. WHEN YOU GET ON IT, THERE IS NO HESITATION. Along with the tuner, i will say it is worth the money, and if you are on the fence...do it. The car now drives the way i imagined it would when i first saw the car. Like everyone else i was dissapointed with the performance when i first drove it. Now, the performance matches the attitude of this car, after you do these mods, there will be no more excuses, or the common..."it looks nice but..' Go get your gears and tuner, after you do, i promise, you will be impressed and satisfied(for now!) with the performance.

[FiveO]

Congrats Howard.....quite a nice difference eh? :)

[hdwrench]

how much do the gears cost and installation, any related costs...

[FiveO]

Rear end gear oil and Friction Modifier is usually extra.

Depending on where you get it...anywhere from $25-$50 total.

[hbarrett]

Thanks, I'll know just how much better it is tomorrow when I have had a chance to get more of a drive.
Howard
Congrats Howard.....quite a nice difference eh? :)

[stevengerard]

Now that's the way the car should have been built.

Oh yeah, Hopward's signing a different tune - congrats!

[Bradley G]

Arn't ya glad ya hung in there?

[bigslim]

As soon as I get some miles on my new MM I will be putting the 410 I won from Reinhart and my chip from Lidio into this one.

[hbarrett]

You know it!
Arn't ya glad ya hung in there?

[hbarrett]

Yes, a happier tune for sure. Now the car feels like it has some life to it. Thanks
Oh yeah, Hopward's signing a different tune - congrats!

[buckyboy]

good for you, enjoy your "new" car:burn:
Got the 4.10s and tuner from Dennis. Gears installed yesterday, did the tuning tonight. Now that's the way the car should have been built. A few weeks ago I felt like I wanted to get rid of the car, now I feel much different today. My thanks to Dennis Reinhart and all you guys who have provided the encouragement. So what's next, sway bars, control arms, Trans, T/C, SC, headers?? When does it stop! Thanks,
Howard